Eidolon, Max Attacks and Claws

[Yanisa]

The Eidolon Max Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/eidolons#TOC-Max.-Attacks) state:

This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.
Say I am a first level Eidolon, and I get claws from my base form, putting me at 2 attacks already. Can I take a evolution to get 2 more claws because I am not at my maximum yet? The oddity here is that it talks about possessing natural attacks, but nothing in the wording seems to limit the amount of attacks you can make. I suspect one of three answers:

A) Yes, I got four attacks now.
B) Yes, but I am still limited to three attacks.
C) No, because it would put me over the limit of maximum attacks.

So, what do you guys think?

[grarrrg]

A) Yes, I got four attacks now.
B) Yes, but I am still limited to three attacks.
C) No, because it would put me over the limit of maximum attacks.

By pure RAW the answer is C. If your Max Attack limit is 3, then you may only have/take 3 attacks.

Going by reasonable interpretation, B is perfectly acceptable. You may need to work out some minor ground rules with your DM though (such as choosing which 3 you can use on a round-by-round basis or somesuch).

[StreamOfTheSky]

Going by reasonable interpretation, B is perfectly acceptable. You may need to work out some minor ground rules with your DM though (such as choosing which 3 you can use on a round-by-round basis or somesuch).

I agree with this. Although I might just say "you only get one claw attack from that evolution until your max attacks increases," period. Rather than give 4 and let the player choose which 3 to use when at all.

[Anlashok]

It's vague. RAI is C, RAW is C or A depending on your interpretation, arguing C as RAW is taking "maximum" at face value (which again, is probably RAI), arguing A is RAW is pointing to the part about how the ability only restricts you from taking new evolutions if you're at the maximum, so taking claws when you're one short of the maximum leapfrogs over it.

B is the most reasonable interpretation though.

[Prince Raven]

Personally, I'd just avoid the whole discussion by taking a bite attack instead, saves you 2 evolution points as well.

[Yanisa]

Personally, I'd just avoid the whole discussion by taking a bite attack instead, saves you 2 evolution points as well.
An option I am considering too. Currently just checking out builds and this one caught my eye.

Also you can put a set of claws on limbs (legs), so no need for extra limbs, yet.


It's vague. RAI is C, RAW is C or A depending on your interpretation, arguing C as RAW is taking "maximum" at face value (which again, is probably RAI), arguing A is RAW is pointing to the part about how the ability only restricts you from taking new evolutions if you're at the maximum, so taking claws when you're one short of the maximum leapfrogs over it.

B is the most reasonable interpretation though.

Exactly my predicament. That's why I am interested in the playgrounds opinion, and see which of the three options I can best offer my DM.

A does break the "allowed posses" clause. Then again I am also not allowed to posses stolen goods and I can still do that. :smalltongue:

[Prince Raven]

An option I am considering too. Currently just checking out builds and this one caught my eye.

Also you can put a set of claws on limbs (legs), so no need for extra limbs, yet.

Ah, going Bipedal. This also brings up another issue when your GM asks how your Eidolon is managing to stand up while also attacking with all 4 limbs...

[Yanisa]

Ah, going Bipedal. This also brings up another issue when your GM asks how your Eidolon is managing to stand up while also attacking with all 4 limbs...

Good point. I might can fluff at as a cartwheel though. :smalltongue:
Still I think I am going to back away from the option for now, although it does complicated build ideas, owh well.

[TuggyNE]

The Eidolon Max Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/eidolons#TOC-Max.-Attacks) state:

Say I am a first level Eidolon, and I get claws from my base form, putting me at 2 attacks already. Can I take a evolution to get 2 more claws because I am not at my maximum yet? The oddity here is that it talks about possessing natural attacks, but nothing in the wording seems to limit the amount of attacks you can make. I suspect one of three answers:

A) Yes, I got four attacks now.
B) Yes, but I am still limited to three attacks.
C) No, because it would put me over the limit of maximum attacks.

So, what do you guys think?

A is correct by strict RAW, because the conditional is in fact gated on being at the maximum.

B is a sensible houserule to use.

C is neither RAW nor RACSD, though it may be RAI. (This is my "I don't give a hoot what PF RAI is" face, in case you couldn't tell.)

[Malroth]

or just take extra arms and put a sword in each one, manufactured weapons aren't limited the same way natural ones are.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ah, going Bipedal. This also brings up another issue when your GM asks how your Eidolon is managing to stand up while also attacking with all 4 limbs...

Spin kicks.

What? You don't think eidolons can know kung fu? Every class is better at martial arts than monk already, is it really surprising if someone's class feature is, too? :smallwink:

[Prince Raven]

Yeah, but playing Pathfinder Society I try to avoid anything that one GM might be ok with and another wouldn't, so I just use my Eidolon's bite attack at levels when it an odd numbers of max attacks.

[grarrrg]

Personally, I'd just avoid the whole discussion by taking a bite attack instead, saves you 2 evolution points as well.

Part of the issue is some builds focus on a specific Nat-weapon.
Might have Improved Damage Evolution and Improved Natural Attack, and (assuming they have the limbs), just as expensive. In this case most people would much rather be able to spend 1 point and get a nice boosted Claw attack, rather than a comparatively wimpy Bite.


Ah, going Bipedal. This also brings up another issue when your GM asks how your Eidolon is managing to stand up while also attacking with all 4 limbs...

But he isn't attacking with all 4 limbs, one leg is still on the ground cause he has a Max Attack limit of 3 :smalltongue:

[Prince Raven]

Ah, so it's off balance?
Make an Acrobatics check. :smalltongue: