Eidolons pathfinder (Hitpoints)

[Sploggle1]

I am thinking about porting over the summoner to dungeons and dragons from pathfinder. It is a pretty interesting class that I am thinking about Isolating on a certain continent keeping them rare. My question is how do their hit points work. I saw something on another forum about 5.5 + con round down but that doesn't sound right.
Also I am thinking about tweaking the whole summon ritual with the Eidolons. I know it says that they can be summoned until they run out of hit points but I personally think that is OP or could easily be broken. How does it sound for me to have an exhaustion flaw added into the Eidolons summoning. I would say for level one 1 summon would lead to exhaustion and at level three 2 summons and then at five 3 and so on and so forth to keep the balance. It would also in my sense keep them from spamming the Eidolons and make them have to focus on playing smart hehe. Evil dm talk lol.

[Troacctid]

Also I am thinking about tweaking the whole summon ritual with the Eidolons. I know it says that they can be summoned until they run out of hit points but I personally think that is OP or could easily be broken. How does it sound for me to have an exhaustion flaw added into the Eidolons summoning. I would say for level one 1 summon would lead to exhaustion and at level three 2 summons and then at five 3 and so on and so forth to keep the balance. It would also in my sense keep them from spamming the Eidolons and make them have to focus on playing smart hehe. Evil dm talk lol.

What sort of abuse are you afraid of exactly? The eidolon is re-summoned at the same HP it was when you dismissed it, so it's not like you're healing it for free.

[Yanisa]

What sort of abuse are you afraid of exactly? The eidolon is re-summoned at the same HP it was when you dismissed it, so it's not like you're healing it for free.

Also summoning take a full minute, which restrict in combat summoning, and is awful when you are attacked during the night.

And there is no such thing as Eidolon spamming, because a Summoner only has one Eidolon. If you are afraid for the SLA Summon Monster the Summoner gets, two things to keep in mind. First off the Summoner cannot Summon Monster when its Eidolon is out, and secondly you can only have one have Summon Monster at a time. A new casting replaces the old one. Unlike the spell itself, which can be spammed.

As for hit die, Summoners have a 1d8 hit die or 4.5 average. In 3.5 terms it would probably end up being 1d6, or 3.5 average, because most caster in 3.5 don't have high HD. The Eidolon has 1d10, or 5.5 average, and you might scale it back to so 1d8, or 4.5 average, to be more in line with the druid, then again most melee frontliners do have 1d10, so it's not that off.

[stack]

Eidolons also only get 15 HD, so consider that before dropping the die size.

[grarrrg]

My question is how do their hit points work. I saw something on another forum about 5.5 + con round down but that doesn't sound right.
They have d10HD, but gain HD at 3/4 the rate their Summoner does. (but it's a "round up" 3/4 level, so their 'no HD level is at Summoner 4).


Also I am thinking about tweaking the whole summon ritual with the Eidolons....[stuff]

...
It appears you are assuming things based entirely on second-hand information. Just go read the actual Summoner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner) write up.


Also summoning take a full minute, which restrict in combat summoning, and is awful when you are attacked during the night.

There is the Summon Eidolon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-eidolon) spell for rapid-summoning, but it adds a couple 'weaknesses' while the Eidolon is summoned this way.

[Yanisa]

They have d10HD, but gain HD at 3/4 the rate their Summoner does. (but it's a "round up" 3/4 level, so their 'no HD level is at Summoner 4).

An animal companion also only gets 12HD + base form. The baseform goes from 1-3HD, so at best a Animal also has 3/4 the level of the druid in HD. (Unsure about bigger creatures, so I might be wrong and then my point is moot.) I still feel 1d10 HD is fine, even in 3.5, but if you are worried it has too much HD, scaling it back does bring it more in line with the druid HD rules (Also outsiders have 1d8 HD in 3.5). The druid however is still considered stronger then the summoner. Especially the 3.5 druid, so it is already a flawed comparison at best.

To really get a feel of balance we need to see the bigger picture. If the class is NPC only then no worries and just keep it as written. If you allow players to take it, do consider the other party members as well.



There is the Summon Eidolon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-eidolon) spell for rapid-summoning, but it adds a couple 'weaknesses' while the Eidolon is summoned this way.

It can also add Augment Summoning. :smalltongue:

[Vhaidara]

Yeah, the only way to get multiple Eidolons is the Broodmaster Archetype, which has its own drawbacks (splitting everything but BAB and saving throw bonuses, which are based off of HD anyways, and that is split)

And, as has been pointed out, barring the Summon Eidolon spell, it takes 10 rounds to summon in combat. If the combat isn't over by then, it's a weird combat that won't be won by dealing damage (or everyone is rolling complete garbage and it should have ended 5 rounds ago). And Summon Eidolon is a standard summoning spell: a full round to cast, and it brings your eidolon in weakened. It is affected normally by protection spells, meaning it cannot enter magic circles and can be dispelled.

And again, as has been pointed out, the presence of the Eidolon prevents the use of the Summon Monster class feature. So you have to pick between one very powerful minion or a lot of minions to swarm the enemy.