Gnolls (Pathfinder PC Race)

[Ralanr]

Hi, first post and new to the forums (which is explained by the first post I guess...)

I looked at the race building example for Gnoll's on the d20 website and I honestly felt that it was rather underpowered and had no flavor as to what a Gnoll actually was.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/gnoll-6-rp

So I took their race building rules (The race points thing), took ten and decided to rebuild them.

Gnolls (humanoid 0RP)
Medium (0RP)
30 ft (0RP)
+2 Str +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Gnolls are strong and have good understanding of group tactics and nature survival, but due to there monsterous appearance and uncivilized habits they tend to horrify other races. (0RP, I forgot the title of the type, but I know it's worth zero).
Languages: Gnolls start with gnoll and common. Gnoll's with high intelligence may learn Abyssal, Giant, Infernal, Orc, Undercommon (learn does not mean speak verbally.) (0RP)
(2RP) Natural armor: +1 to AC
(1RP) Improved Nat armor (requires natural armor): +1 to AC
Gnoll have naturally thick hides, giving them +2 to their AC
(1RP): Bite attack that deals 1d6 damage
(1RP): Improved Bite, upgrades bite to 1d8 damage
Gnolls, like hyenas, have very powerful jaw strength (this one is what I'll argue broken, the site said the bite was only suppose to be 1d3 for medium creatures, but it didn't say the level for large creatures and upon further research I learned that bite for medium creatures is 1d6 and large is 1d8. So I decided to bring it to that level)
(2RP) Darkvision 60 ft
(1RP) Carrion sense: Scent like ability corpses of badly wounded creatures (25% or fewer hit points). (I wanted scent, but that costed 4RP)
(2RP) Scavenger: +2 racial bonus on Appraise and Perception checks to find hidden objects (traps and Secret doors), determine whether food is spoiled or Identify a potion by taste.

Thoughts? Comments? Did I successfully make a balanced race?

[Keneth]

While there's nothing wrong with the balance of that race, you're gonna need to make sure that all gnolls are like that after you introduce the race to your game.

Your basic gnolls don't have all those extra abilities—although I have always been fascinated by the fact that gnolls don't have a bite attack when even orcs can get one—so you'll need to fix the monster stat blocks.

[Ralanr]

While there's nothing wrong with the balance of that race, you're gonna need to make sure that all gnolls are like that after you introduce the race to your game.

Your basic gnolls don't have all those extra abilities—although I have always been fascinated by the fact that gnolls don't have a bite attack when even orcs can get one—so you'll need to fix the monster stat blocks.

I sent the stats to my DM actually. She said that they work perfectly. It is weird that they don't have bite, what do Gnolls not like the taste of other peoples blood in their mouth?

[squiggit]

No claw attack seems a bit odd, always thought that was kind of a staple too.

Comparing yours and the one you linked from d20pfsrd I do like the str/con boost with no penalty more than the str/wis boost and cha penalty. Wisdom never really seemed like their strong point, since most gnoll NPCs I've seen.. anywhere always seem just on the edge of sanity in one way or another (yet also tend to have keen senses, those two connected to each other might be a bit of a problem). Carrion sense seems a bit odd to me and I'm not sure I like +2 ac either.

All those are little personal nitpicks though, as written the race looks pretty ok.

[Keneth]

No claw attack seems a bit odd, always thought that was kind of a staple too.

Carrion sense seems a bit odd to me and I'm not sure I like +2 ac either.

They're basically large bipedal hyenas. Hyenas have a +2 natural armor bonus, a bite attack, and they're scavengers (i.e. carrion eaters). What they don't have, like most canines, is claw attacks. :smallconfused:

I do agree on the Wisdom bit though. I haven't even noticed that when I skimmed it. Gnolls aren't generally wise, and they worship demons, so chaos and insanity fit them much better thematically.

[Sartharina]

I'd suggest a strong bonus to fortitude against disease and ingested poisons somewhere in there (Far more important than scent).

[Ralanr]

They're basically large bipedal hyenas. Hyenas have a +2 natural armor bonus, a bite attack, and they're scavengers (i.e. carrion eaters). What they don't have, like most canines, is claw attacks. :smallconfused:

I do agree on the Wisdom bit though. I haven't even noticed that when I skimmed it. Gnolls aren't generally wise, and they worship demons, so chaos and insanity fit them much better thematically.

I really only put in the wisdom because they do have a tendency to focus on group tactics and also usually attack people when they have greater numbers, so they have an understanding of survival. But I guess you're right on that. Should I just swap the Wis and Cha stats?

Also, do canines even use their claws in real life? Cause if not then why do they get claw attacks?

Edit: Also Hyenas are actually cats, but they unlike all other cats don't use claws much. Considering they have the strongest jaw strength on land (or close to it. It's 1100 PSI)


I'd suggest a strong bonus to fortitude against disease and ingested poisons somewhere in there (Far more important than scent).

But would it fit thematically? Hyena's are scavengers, smelling out dead carcasses does seem important. Granted these corpses may have disease, but they'd be able to notice before consuming.

[Ralanr]

I'm thinking I'll change the stats from +2 to Str and Wis, to +2 Con and Dex, keeping the Cha penalty.

This make sense? The Con because of the tough hide and the Dex because of bestial reflexes?