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Doglord
2007-02-10, 07:07 AM
My character recently died, and I want to make a paladin. It has to be level 5, but Im not sure whether to have ftr2/ pal3 or just pal5. Any opinions or alternate ideas?

Matthew
2007-02-10, 07:10 AM
I would prefer Paladin 5, but a lot depends on the Attribute Scores you roll up and Race you choose to play. A couple of levels of Fighter would be quite nice for the Bonus Feats.

Human Paladin 5
Level 1 - Two Feats
Level 2 -
Level 3 - One Feat
Level 4 -
Level 5 -

Easiest thing to do is take Power Attack, Combat Expertise and Cleave.

Saph
2007-02-10, 08:05 AM
You'll have trouble affording a high enough Int for Combat Expertise while still being good enough in all your other stats . . . Power Attack and Cleave are good choices, though. I'd take Mounted Combat for your third feat, to help keep your mount alive.

Thing about paladins is that they don't have any easy dump stats. If you're rolling stats, paladin is one of the ones which really benefits from an above-average set of scores.

- Saph

Doglord
2007-02-10, 08:09 AM
Thanks a lot

Matthew
2007-02-10, 08:11 AM
Absolutely. Paladin's need better than average scores to function properly.

Ikkitosen
2007-02-10, 08:23 AM
Go Paladin 4 / Fighter 1. Get Divine feats at upper levels to get the most from your charisma. Until then get the combat basics.

Unless you're going to be a smal character it's impractical to base your fighting around your mount, so don't bother to get one.

H1: Power Attack
1: Cleave
3: ?? Imp Bull Rush if you want Shock Trooper cheese - as a meleeist you may need it.
F1: Leap Attack

cupkeyk
2007-02-10, 10:08 AM
Fifth Level is only ever good if you are taking a mount. If you are, be halfling, strongheart halflings get a bonus feat. Feat selection would be: Racial-Mounted Combat, 1-Ride-by-Attack, 3-Skill Focus (Handle Animal)

This lets you take Beastmaster1 and Mounted Archery as a feat by level 6. At level 7 onward you can go Halfling Outrider, getting Spirited Charge at level 9. Pal5,Beastmaster1, Halfling Outrider will make your mount progress as both as a paladin's mount AND a Druidic animal companion. At level 10 Halfling Outrider, you have a Dire Hawk with all the benefits of a level 15 paladin master and a level 14 druid master. At the cheap cost of 1 BAB. Being small you will not have as many opportunities bullrushing or tripping but still consider improved bullrush, power attack and shock trooper as your mobility will greatly lessen the penalties of heedless charge. You can then lay the smackdown. Anything other than a small paladin will find himself gimped in a dungeon.

If you are not interested in mounted combat, consider going warmage after level four. Full BAB progression and your primary casting stat will boost your saves. Then consider gong eldritch knight. If you are totally MAD(not insane, rather MAD) Duskblade is better than warmage.

Norsesmithy
2007-02-10, 10:27 AM
Go Paladin 4 / Fighter 1. Get Divine feats at upper levels to get the most from your charisma. Until then get the combat basics.

Unless you're going to be a smal character it's impractical to base your fighting around your mount, so don't bother to get one.

H1: Power Attack
1: Cleave
3: ?? Imp Bull Rush if you want Shock Trooper cheese - as a meleeist you may need it.
F1: Leap Attack
Ignore me, I was wrong.

Not a legal build. you would need to go
H1: Power attack
1:Improved Bull rush
F1:Shock trooper
3:Cleave
6: ???
9:Leap attack
As Jump is a cross class skill for a Paladin, a Fighter 1 Paladin X can't take Leap Attack until his level 9 feat

its_all_ogre
2007-02-10, 10:37 AM
do you have phb2 in your campaign? if you do then paladin 5 do not go with the mount, go for charging smite, it is better than the mount overall and you do not lose smite attempts if you miss while charging.
feat wise i would go power attack and then look at the divine feats.
cleave is only worthwhile if you are going with charging smite, a level 5 paladin using that should kill most opponents in one hit so cleave is useful then!
for a multiclass i would not go for fighter personally

Fawsto
2007-02-10, 10:48 AM
Personaly I'd go Human Ftr 2/ Pal 3... The Bonus Feats help a lot! And you'll get a the use of an extra shield, the tower shield. Maybe this can help you in the future, dunno.

Remember to get a good weapon with nice dmg and crit, 'cause you'll need everything you can afford to help you since your character will have quite balanced stats.

Have you considered Monkey Grip? With It you can use a Big Longsword (aka. Greatsword) dealing 2d6 dmg with 19-20/x2 crit at a -2 in attack rolls. You ask me what is the good point of this? Well any feat like "Weapon Focus" will apply to any version of a long sword (I guess so, since they are the same weapon anyways), medium or big. Since you won't have so many feats at your disposal this can be quite economic.

Also, consider the optional mounts. If you wait long enought you can get a Dire Lion or a Griffon (and even a dragon if you do the right things).

Don't forget that the Paladin has access to spells like Bull's Strenght now. They can be really cool!

Matthew
2007-02-10, 10:52 AM
Monkey Grip? Tower Shield? How awful... you are almost always going to be better off with Power Attack and Combat Expertise.

Khantalas
2007-02-10, 10:56 AM
No one considers Monkey Grip because it is for monkeys.

Besides, you could just get Weapon Focus (greatsword), and use Power Attack to better effectiveness.

its_all_ogre
2007-02-10, 10:57 AM
if you are thinking of going for some prestige class i would look at either templar or champion of torm(change god and it'll fit any campaign) the former giving you weapon spec, mettle, good will save and some spells(not healing, but buffs), the latter giving you even better saves and some more lay on hands uses. both require weapon focus with your deities favoured weapon, so you could even do both!

Doglord
2007-02-10, 11:05 AM
BTY race is medium dragonborn

cupkeyk
2007-02-10, 12:10 PM
Sword and Board vs. THW? o_0 is this even a question...

Ikkitosen
2007-02-10, 12:16 PM
Not a legal build. you would need to go
H1: Power attack
1:Improved Bull rush
F1:Shock trooper
3:Cleave
6: ???
9:Leap attack
As Jump is a cross class skill for a Paladin, a Fighter 1 Paladin X can't take Leap Attack until his level 9 feat

Jump is on the fighter list, so you can have 8 ranks at level 5 no problem. As a human you have the skill points too.

Ramza00
2007-02-10, 12:35 PM
Alternative Class: Divine Spirit

Most paladins form a special relationship with a celestial mount that aids them in battle. You, however, spend most of your time fighting below the ground or in enclosed spaces, where a mount is of little use. Instead, you have forged a bond with celestial spirits whose aid you can call upon when needed.

Level: 5th.

Replaces: If you select this alternative class feature, you do not gain the special mount ability.

Benefit: Upon reaching 5th level, you can call upon your deity for aid in the form of a celestial spirit. Using this ability is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. See below for detailed spirit descriptions and rules.

Your paladin level determines which kinds of celestial spirits answer your summons. You can summon the spirit available at your current level as well as any that became available at lower levels.
Paladin Level Spirit Summoned 5th-10th Spirit of healing 11th-15th Spirit of combat 16th-19th Spirit of heroism 20th+ Spirit of the fallen
The following entries describe how each of the different spirits function. Unless otherwise specified, all spirits share some characteristics, as set out below.

A spirit occupies a 5-foot square on the battle map.
When summoned, a spirit appears on the battlefield within 30 feet of you. You can use a free action to have it move once per round. The spirit has a land speed of 30 feet.
All spirits are insubstantial and transparent. Any creature can move through them normally, and they do not block line of sight or line of effect.
A spirit cannot attack or be attacked. It is not undead and cannot be turned. It is subject to dispel magic, dismissal, or banishment as if it were a summoned creature, using your paladin level as the caster level.
If you lose line of sight to a spirit, it disappears immediately.
Each spirit available to you can be summoned once per day.
A spirit remains for a number of rounds equal to your paladin level, until it is dismissed, or until special conditions in the spirit's description are met.
Spirit of Healing: This spirit increases your ability to heal damage dealt to you or your allies. When summoned, it can heal an amount of damage equal to twice the amount you can heal using your lay on hands ability.

To use its healing ability, you or an ally must begin or end your turn in the same square as the spirit. That character can then use a standard action to transfer some or all of the hit points from the spirit to herself. Once the spirit has used all its healing ability, it dissipates.

Spirit of Combat: This spirit enhances combat ability. Whenever an ally (including yourself) is adjacent to the spirit of combat or occupying its space, that character gains holy fervor. Holy fervor grants a +1 sacred bonus on attacks and damage rolls for every four paladin levels you possess (up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). In addition, affected characters' weapons are treated as good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Spirit of Heroism: This spirit automatically occupies your space and does not leave until dismissed or dispelled, or the duration of the summoning ends. You gain DR 10/--. In addition, you gain the benefit of the Diehard feat (even if you do not meet the prerequisite) and can use your lay on hands ability as a free action once per round instead of as a standard action.

Spirit of the Fallen: While you or any of your allies are adjacent to this spirit, it grants fast healing 10 to those characters. If an affected character's hit points drop to 0 or fewer while within 30 feet of this spirit, it revives that character at the start of his next turn, allowing him to take his action as normal. The character heals an amount of damage equal to twice your paladin level, though if his hit points are still at -10 or below, he still dies. The spirit can use its revive ability once per round.

A spirit of the fallen cannot revive creatures whose bodies have been destroyed (such as by a disintegrate spell), nor can it reverse the effects of bodily changes, such as from flesh to stone or baleful polymorph, or other effects that slay a character without dealing damage.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a&page=1

With this substitution option there is finally a reason to play a full paladin.

Norsesmithy
2007-02-10, 12:36 PM
All that means is that Jump is a class skill for your Fighter levels, that doesn't make it a class skill for your Paladin levels.

At least I think it doesn't.

Does it?

Matthew
2007-02-10, 12:39 PM
It doesn't make it a Class Skill, but it does determine the maximum ranks as [3 + Character Level].

Ramza00
2007-02-10, 12:40 PM
All that means is that Jump is a class skill for your Fighter levels, that doesn't make it a class skill for your Paladin levels.

At least I think it doesn't.

Does it?



Skills

If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)
If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm

Thus with a Fighter/Paladin multiclass the max skill rank is Character Level +3. If you buy skillpoints for Jump during your fighter level it takes 1 skillpoint to go up a rank since its a class skill. If you buy skillpoints for Jump during your paladin levels it takes 2 skillpoints to go up a rank for jump is a cross-class skill.

Norsesmithy
2007-02-10, 12:41 PM
Oh, cool. That makes a world of difference for me, thanks.

cupkeyk
2007-02-10, 12:45 PM
If he gets Jump as a class skill in any one of his classes he can spend ranks in it cross class until he gets ECL+3 even if it currently cross class for his current class.

That Paladin Substitution is awesome.

Roderick_BR
2007-02-10, 12:49 PM
Definitively get Power Attack at 1st level, and Either Divine Might or Shield on 3rd. You can get 1 Fighter leve if you need one more feat for combat. Maybe a exotic weapon. Depends on the kind of char you want.

Renegade Paladin
2007-02-10, 12:50 PM
Sword and Board vs. THW? o_0 is this even a question...
Yeah, the answer is obviously sword and board.

That is, it would be if the D&D combat system even came close to modeling the actual effectiveness of actual medieval combat styles. :smallyuk:

marjan
2007-02-10, 01:31 PM
If you want to enter a PrC for Eberron best choice is Exorcist of Silver Flame.
But you should take level of cleric first so you can spend incresed caster level gained from EoSF on cleric class (it's better then paladin). Then take 5levels of paladin to get charging smite. Your levels in paladin and EoSF stack for smite evil and you will substite Lay on hands with more less powerfull spells. If you don't play in Eberron then Kensai and Pious Templar are best choices if you ask me. Also if you do play in Eberron consider Warforged paladin with racial substitution levels and Warforged Juggernaught or Reforged as PrC. Divine Might, Divine Shield, Diveine Vigor, Combat Form Feats, Improved Smiting, Extra Smiting, Sanctify Martial Strike are good feats.
Also you can multiclass with rogue and take Devoted Inquisitor (or whatever it is called) from complete adventurer.

Ikkitosen
2007-02-10, 02:07 PM
Definitively get Power Attack at 1st level, and Either Divine Might or Shield on 3rd. You can get 1 Fighter leve if you need one more feat for combat. Maybe a exotic weapon. Depends on the kind of char you want.

The trouble is Paladins don't get Turn Undead, the pre-requisite for those feats, until 4th. You have to wait to buy them :(