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Ruethgar
2014-04-28, 07:03 PM
So, it is in the base set of prestidigitation's abilities to be able to create small objects. This is awesome, block LoS and make obstacle courses behind you. But what kind of things can it make? What material? Tools, weapons, and spell components are all fairly well defined categories for D&D in the equipment and spells sections respectively so it is fairly easy to avoid the creation of those. True creation covers all non-magical, unattended matter. Because of the no spell mimic clause, the object made via prestidigitation must then either be attended, magical, not matter, or all of the above. So you could create living spell corpses in your arms pretty easily as they are magical, would be attended, and made of energy more than matter.

Deophaun
2014-04-28, 08:13 PM
So, it is in the base set of prestidigitation's abilities to be able to create small objects. This is awesome, block LoS and make obstacle courses behind you.
It's unlikely to block LoS, as you're only able to create "small items." Notice that it's "small," not "Small." What's a small item? Well, best I can tell from the rules it's something that can fit in a belt pouch. So, unless you're making a corpse of a Diminutive-size living spell, it's too big. Certainly, it's not going to be much of an obstacle.

torrasque666
2014-04-28, 08:23 PM
Couldn't you use it to create caltrops though?

deuxhero
2014-04-28, 08:27 PM
Too brittle to use as tools should make caltrops just crumble under weight.

I like using it to illustrate things (which even your str penalty self can smash for dramatic effect) and tossing at stuff to check depth/illusions.

Ruethgar
2014-04-28, 08:31 PM
Couldn't you use it to create caltrops though?

No, because the spell Caltrops does that.

The only time I see small defined is in the creature sizes unless you want to go with the 3.0 definition in which case the size of a short sword(so about tiny for creature size). So not much LoS blockage there. But the little bit about being able to instantly create magical items is what interested me.

Doc_Maynot
2014-04-28, 08:33 PM
Couldn't you use it to create caltrops though?

No due to the "Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects." and there is a spell that does it. It's called caltrops.

Yogibear41
2014-04-28, 08:57 PM
I would use it to make thumbtacs against opponents with no shoes on, and then laugh maliciously.

Deophaun
2014-04-28, 08:57 PM
The only time I see small defined is in the creature sizes...
That's "Small," not "small." One is a rules term. The other is English. For example, let's look at the SRD entry for a crossbow:

Crossbow, Heavy

You draw a heavy crossbow back by turning a small winch.

Are you saying that a Medium sized creature cannot occupy the same space as a heavy crossbow, because there's a winch in the way? What about the small steel mirror that weighs 1/2 lb? Can you have a heavy crossbow and one of those together? And finally, can you stuff a Halfling into a belt pouch?

Pouch, Belt: This leather pouch straps to your belt. It’s good for holding small items.
Notice how these all say "small," lowercase, just as prestidigitation does, and not "Small," uppercase, which things like reduce person do.

Chronos
2014-04-29, 08:25 AM
True creation covers all non-magical, unattended matter. Because of the no spell mimic clause, the object made via prestidigitation must then either be attended, magical, not matter, or all of the above.
That's not how the "no spell mimic" clause works. Just because another spell can do something, doesn't mean that Presti can't: If that were how it worked, then Presti couldn't do anything at all, because everything it could do, Wish can do. But there are tons of things that Wish can do but which Presti can't, and so Presti doesn't mimic Wish. Or, to cover the specific example, Presti doesn't mimic True Creation because True Creation makes objects that last forever, the objects made can be significantly larger, and they're high enough quality to be used as weapons or tools, all of which are things that Presti can't do.

The Caltrops spell is a better example of the application of that clause: Making caltrops is all that spell does, so a spell that can make caltrops would be mimicking it, so Presti can't make caltrops.

TuggyNE
2014-04-29, 08:18 PM
That's not how the "no spell mimic" clause works. Just because another spell can do something, doesn't mean that Presti can't: If that were how it worked, then Presti couldn't do anything at all, because everything it could do, Wish can do. But there are tons of things that Wish can do but which Presti can't, and so Presti doesn't mimic Wish.

It should also be noted that wish's relevant effect is not "<list of things that prestidigitation does>", but "Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school", which is clearly not something prestidigitation even attempts to do. (The challenges of pointer indirection logic strike again!)

torrasque666
2014-04-29, 08:21 PM
That's not how the "no spell mimic" clause works. Just because another spell can do something, doesn't mean that Presti can't: If that were how it worked, then Presti couldn't do anything at all, because everything it could do, Wish can do. But there are tons of things that Wish can do but which Presti can't, and so Presti doesn't mimic Wish. Or, to cover the specific example, Presti doesn't mimic True Creation because True Creation makes objects that last forever, the objects made can be significantly larger, and they're high enough quality to be used as weapons or tools, all of which are things that Presti can't do.

The Caltrops spell is a better example of the application of that clause: Making caltrops is all that spell does, so a spell that can make caltrops would be mimicking it, so Presti can't make caltrops.

Wells specifically, Caltrops creates a 5x5 square of caltrops. Creating a single caltrop would be within Presti's power. Then again, they couldn't do anything as Presti-creations can't cause damage.

Troacctid
2014-04-29, 08:31 PM
It's unlikely to block LoS, as you're only able to create "small items." Notice that it's "small," not "Small." What's a small item? Well, best I can tell from the rules it's something that can fit in a belt pouch. So, unless you're making a corpse of a Diminutive-size living spell, it's too big. Certainly, it's not going to be much of an obstacle.

What if you make something like a bucket and drop it directly over their head? That could block line of sight.

Adverb
2014-04-29, 09:01 PM
Or get them mistaken for the Vorlon god Booji.

Deophaun
2014-04-29, 10:28 PM
What if you make something like a bucket and drop it directly over their head? That could block line of sight.
Only for the purposes of stealing from their store and murdering their customers.