How do I GM noobs

[Akolbi]

SO...

I've got 3-4 noobs whom I convinced to play, and maybe one more experienced gamer (low op). I'm going PF core only, as a way to try and keep it simple (I may let the experienced one go out of core, just because he can handle more complexity than a total noob). I'm curious on a couple of points:

how should I handle character creation? by this I mean, how much should I do, and how much should I leave to them.

how brutal should I be? I wanted a dark macabre theme, but I don't know how brutal to be.

on that note: what are good dark beginner monsters, I was thinking undead (skeletons/zombies etc.), maybe stop a lvl 5 cleric.

AAAND, most importantly:

What level? normally my group starts at lvl5. is it too high for noobs, or is it good, because it stops the 5-min adventuring day, to a certain extent.

[Sir Chuckles]

Start at 1st level for new players, especially if they've never made P&P characters before. It's best this way to learn the basics of the game system without being told "and now you have to learn everything else for 2nd-5th level".
A simple progression through various undead to fight a Cleric puppet-mastering a big hulk undead beast is a good introduction to any game.

As for brutality, that's one you ask your players. Some players want it to be Battle Toads. Some players want to go on an ADVENTUUUUUURREEEE. This can modify the whole macabre theme, as well as the plot conflict.

For creation, explain the general idea; "You have x points to put into abilities. What class do you want? Wizard? You'll want high Intelligence." and so on, explaining feats and skills as you. Hold their hands through the explanation, then judo throw them into the feats list, and when they swim to the other side (remember to yell encouragement from your lifeguard shack!), hold their hand again. Rinse a repeat for the relevant things they need to know.

Use the first few encounters to teach them fiddly bits, as well.

[ngilop]

yes start at level 1 and walk through character creation with them.

play the first few sessions with training wheels on.


one thing I found really good for new players that help a lot is for each class I allow is I give a paragraph or so describing its role highlighting a few abilities and what at certain intervals it is capable of doing.

one thing I do a lot when getting new players ( im the go to DM when people in my community want to start D&D) is have a bunch of random weak one shot items (i.e. a lot fo cure light wounds potions, scrolls of magic missile etc)

I also tend to have them fight big dumb guys first off, so a bunch of orcs maybe some animals, so that at first tactics are SMASS FACE YEAH!!!, then over the next few level (gerenally up to level 7 or 8 as its practically impossible to kill PCs at that point untless one is trying) I slowly introduce more and more advanced tactics (the hoblins are forming a shiled wall with a few archers and the shaman behind them)

each game session I make it a point to teach the players about one or 2 certain aspects of the game besides kick in the door kill the monster and get lewtz, rinse and repeat.

[Barbarian Horde]

yes start at level 1 and walk through character creation with them.

play the first few sessions with training wheels on.


one thing I found really good for new players that help a lot is for each class I allow is I give a paragraph or so describing its role highlighting a few abilities and what at certain intervals it is capable of doing.

one thing I do a lot when getting new players ( im the go to DM when people in my community want to start D&D) is have a bunch of random weak one shot items (i.e. a lot fo cure light wounds potions, scrolls of magic missile etc)

I also tend to have them fight big dumb guys first off, so a bunch of orcs maybe some animals, so that at first tactics are SMASS FACE YEAH!!!, then over the next few level (gerenally up to level 7 or 8 as its practically impossible to kill PCs at that point untless one is trying) I slowly introduce more and more advanced tactics (the hoblins are forming a shiled wall with a few archers and the shaman behind them)

each game session I make it a point to teach the players about one or 2 certain aspects of the game besides kick in the door kill the monster and get lewtz, rinse and repeat.
^
Get a PDF of the players handbook get them to read it. During prolog keep em safe and explain that after it's over if they die be prepared to make new character. When your character has a chance to lose their life, players tend to be a bit more cautious with their actions. Put the fear of god in them, so they play smart.
This url was the first link after googling Players hand book pdf
http://www.aegisoft.be/costa/data/roleplay/D&D%203.5%20-%20Players%20Handbook%20%5BOEF%5D.pdf

[ericgrau]

IMO make their characters for them but let them level them up. Make at least 4 to get each of the classic archetypes, but preferably more. Let them choose from those characters. It's tempting to let them make characters from the start, but it may or may not go well. And you can always end the campaign early and start over, or let players make new characters mid-campaign at the same level as their old character (no penalty, at least this time).

I think being brutal is part of the fun of D&D. But I'd use lower CR creatures at first, and merely play them effectively. If you pull punches it can make the game dull and less exciting.

IMO start at level 2-3. The lower the level the fewer mechanics are involved. Especially for casters. Probably level 3 for the same reason I don't say level 1: at level 1 you can get one shotted too easily. Also gives more room for the players to customize their characters as they learn the system, besides starting a new character from scratch.

Do get them to read the rules ya, or at least the rules related to their character. But also review them as you go.

[Barbarian Horde]

Give them a NPC higher level to help out if they need it. Eventually have the npc die off or leave the party once you feel they are up for soloing without you holding their hands. I personally keep an NPC in the party to keep things interesting and balanced.

[Talar]

Having recently ran a short game for some completely new players I think I might have some useful advice. Definitely start them at first level so they can learn the basics of game play. I would say walk them through character creation, therefore they know their character and can choose the little details about them. Otherwise in the first two sessions maybe three try to spot light different aspects of the game: combat, social encounters, skills, different things like that so that they are at least exposed to them and will have an inkling of what to do when different things in game come up. Encourage them to peruse the rule book too, a familiarity with the rules will breed a comfortable mindset when playing.

[Element Zero]

I agree with most of the above posters. First level is the way to go. Don't want to scare them off with a bevy of abilities they don't understand.

Staying with core is a good idea, too, and something I should have done when I ran my crew of noobs. I didn't, and things got confusing for everyone really, really fast.

As for brutality...ramp up the challenge, but I say keep them away from enemy spellcasters until they are familiar with spells on their side of the table.

[Kazudo]

The joke answer and serious answer are actually the same:

CAREFULLY.

If this is their first (or near first) experience, then this particular game could be the make-or-break point for their entry into tabletop gaming (or this system, which also happens).

Not saying use kid gloves, but haul out advanced mechanics over time. If there's a character who wants to grapple, walk them through grappling, but don't introduce it yourself until you think they're ready. That kind of thing.

I usually end up using only the SRD for first-timers, excluding Psionics and, in some cases, even magic use for the PCs, restricting alignment to Neutral or better, and forbidding CN and TN as options. If there are any complaints, I usually call this "The Training Section" so that they can get the game down pat before introducing other game mechanics and subsystems like magic, psionics, maneuvers, essentia, etc. etc. etc.

You know the old(ish) saying:

To play a fighter is to play the game
To play a wizard is to understand the rules
To understand the rules and play a fighter anyway is to understand the game.

Be nice, be fair, and above all else don't be afraid to restrict a bit until the players are more comfortable with more options.

[Fouredged Sword]

For brand new player, I suggest you keep things light and silly, with a strong core of all the games features in an adventure. Here is a path I built for a funny level 1 game, and it seems to be working out well. It is perfectly fine for a low OP group. I find starting from a well defined starting point helps you spend more time helping the players learn the game rather than designing the encounters as you go.

Those who are currently playing with me as DM, keep out.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?333117-Moldrake-s-School-CCC

It is short and sweet, able to be finished in a single sitting, while allowing players room to learn as they go. How to handle a locked or stuck door, how to fight rats, how to fight dire rats, how to fight a tough boss, how to talk to NPC's.

On top of that, there is a nice little mystery that they can solve while completing the main plot. You may have to adjust the setting a bit to put the players into the dungeon, but it should be doable without any major changes.

[Diachronos]

I can't really speak from a GM's experience since I haven't actually run a successful tabletop RPG (something I plan to change soon), but it might be a good idea to ask your players what kind of character they want to play as. It's something that my main DM does for his campaigns for new players.

If their response is something vague, like "I want to use magic" or "I want to hit things", try getting them to decide on a certain thing. If they want to use magic: offensive or supportive, flashy or subtle, do they want to finish the job themselves or get someone/something to do it for them? If they want to do mundane combat: range or melee, one big hit or lots of smaller hits, charge in or wait for the right time to strike?
And if they want to play a "talky" character, have them roll a bard.

[hymer]

If you plan to hook them on RPGs, allow them all to do something cool. Give them strong PCs, and make sure there are proverbial nails for their proverbial hammers.

[Akolbi]

thanks for all the advice, would level 3 be too high? I would like to try and have them able to take a few hits, I think starting at level 1 might be off putting if somebody dies by accident, but I don't know.
They all have played video game RPGs, and most (I think 1 hasn't) have played DDO, so there IS some precedent for the basics of the system.

as for the theme...I CAN'T do light and airy, it has nothing to do with the group, I just cannot create that kind of world, I love undead, and would like to build up for a few levels to a conflict with a vampire (that fight WILL be brutal) hes a CR 6 (might have to wait a little longer than that, even). in all seriousness, though, I've made worlds ruled by undead, several necromancers, a dmphire (closest the DM let me get to vampire) and EVERY ONE of my characters is an orphan.

and evil.

usually NE.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would start them at level 2 at the highest. That gives the casters more level 1 spells and gives the fighters enough HP not to die, but it keeps things very simple with just level 1 spells and stuff. Low ball the encounters with CR 1-2 encounters and let them get used to the game.

[Callin]

2 at the ABSOLUTE highest. First I would have them sit down and make first level characters and then run a very short 3 or 4 room Kids Glove Dungeon. Use traps and small amount of monsters maybe a social encounter to get them used to finding and disabling traps and used to combat. AFTER that they know what their character can do and how they want to sort of progress. So then start the process of leveling up. This also lets them feel like they earned the level and loot to a degree. Not much but hey they play video games if you dont level up during the tutorial then why even bother right? haha

[Darkweave31]

For new players I generally like to forego actually building characters for the first session. Let them come up with their concept and focus on roleplaying and having fun with it. Pick a race and a class to get a general sense of their capabilities then have them roll some d20s whenever they want to try something and come up with the consequences of the action depending on how the die falls. Don't worry all that much about their stats for the first session.

After that, start to slowly introduce them to the game's mechanics over the next few sessions. Start with one session introducing them to their abilities (strength, dexterity, intelligence, etc.). Based on the character concept they wanted to go with let them know where their stats should focus. Now have them modify their d20 rolls with the relevant stat ability.

Next session introduce them to skills, how they work, and how they modify the dice rolls. You can also introduce attack bonuses and saves. Notice how they're slowly learning to calculate their relevant modifiers without really slowing down the fun of playing.

At this point they should have a pretty good idea of the core mechanic and you can introduce them to the rest of the abilities, feats, etc.

This method keeps it fun for them without really overwhelming them with mechanics all at once. Keep it fun, keep it simple. Good luck!

[Saintsqc]

IMO, you better start them lvl 1. Be generous with potion/wand/scroll so they don't die one shot.

[Alex12]

I'm partial to starting them at level 2. Most classes aren't really complex by level 2, and they're a little better off in terms of survivability.
Walk them through, keep it simple, don't use mechanics you don't understand.
Make it a positive thing. The first time I DMed for newbies, I ran them through Something's Cooking (a fun first-level module) with second-level characters, and it worked out fantastically. You can ramp up the difficulty later, but the important things for now are to get them familiar with the basic mechanics and to have it be a positive experience that they enjoy.

[rrwoods]

Start at level 1, IMO very very few exceptions to this rule for first time players. If you are worried about brittle characters, be conscious of each character's hit points when designing encounters. If the party has a caster they will have 5-6 hit points; make the biggest weapon an npc has a d4. Otherwise still don't go higher than a d6. Honestly with careful npc weapon management you probably won't even need to fudge the die rolls.

[Sir Chuckles]

I'm still in support of start fresh, brand new players who are learning the game at level 1, but if you want to go higher than that for whatever reason, I'll recommending doing this:

Have them make their character at level 1, and then level it accordingly. This way, they learn to level characters as well as build them. Add in WBL, and you get to have them experience kitting out their character, as well.
It'll depend on what kind of players they are.

[Ssalarn]

I agree with the suggestion to start at level 1. It's going to help the players ramp up into their abilities and actually understand their characters and the leveling process. Also, don't be brutal. Otherwise they're not going to want to play with you again :smalltongue:

If you're going dark, undead make a great starting place and there are so many of them that it's easy to ramp up, and an evil cleric or necromancer makes for a great and iconic BBEG.

Probably remember that it's okay to railroad the new guys a little bit. I prefer to think of it as "hand-railing", because sometimes new players are just groping around in the dark if they don't have a little direction.