Belkar in Jail [spoilers]

[jmucchiello]

I don't know if anyone else pointed this out but since Belkar escaped from the non-anti-magic cell the last time they had him here, will they put him in the anti-magic area this time?

Won't that negate the effects of the Mark of Justice while he's in the cell area? Won't that mean he will be free to attack and kill while in that cell area? Could be cool.

[DarkPhilosopher]

Well, the illusion appeared to be on one anti-magic cell.

Now that's WEIRD...

[TheOtherMC]

I must say that would be amusing.

[factotum]

Free to attack what, exactly? He's in a cell, and presumably has had his weapons taken away. Sure, he could probably squish a few roaches without activating the MoJ, but I'm not sure it would have triggered in that case anyway...

[PirateMonk]

Any living creature.

[TheOtherMC]

Free to attack what, exactly? He's in a cell, and presumably has had his weapons taken away. Sure, he could probably squish a few roaches without activating the MoJ, but I'm not sure it would have triggered in that case anyway...

Well halflings ARE good at throwing things other than rocks....

[EvilAndProud]

I think they'll die from his awesome jumping powers. After all, his ring of jumping is hidden somewhere noone would look.

[TheOtherMC]

Well not really, since the ring is magic and if Belkar were to be put into an anti-magic cell as expected it wouldn't even function....no matter how disturbing a place it was put.

[Skippy the Dire]

I highly doubt they will bother putting Belkar in an AM cell. First, he is not a known spellcaster, and second, not every cell in the tower should be AM. The only reason to place him in such a cell is specifically to negate the MoJ so that Roy can escort Hinjo wherever without the MoJ hammering Belkar.

Although a less LG type might see the collateral effect as a feature, not a bug, of the MoJ.

[slayerx]

I highly doubt they will bother putting Belkar in an AM cell. First, he is not a known spellcaster...

That's what they said the last time...


The only reason to place him in such a cell is specifically to negate the MoJ so that Roy can escort Hinjo wherever without the MoJ hammering Belkar.
Unless Roy can indeed get Belkar out, this would be a VERY good reason to put him in an AM cell...

[Professor Tanhauser]

What might be funny is for someone to ntell Balkar "not to drop the soap" and Belkar just looks at him in puzzlement and says "Soap?"

[Atheist_Cleric]

Whether or not Belkar is put in an AM cell could determine just how real the MoJ is. Remember, the theory was recently put forward by the Belkster himself that the mark is just an illusion, the whole thing a psychological trick. It would make sense, because it would most likely keep Belkar in line, but also let him be able to fight normally if a surprise situation demanded it.

[hanzo66]

If they really want to restrain Belkar, just put him in a bucket with a breathing hole.

[atteSmythe]

They should put him in the cell with the illusion-Belkar. Let the Test of Sanity begin!

[BardicLasher]

They should put him in the cell next to Miko's... That'll be good.

[TheOtherMC]

Or even better: The cell next to Miko's AND the illusion Belkar! I mean if she cant even put up with one of 'em.......and we know the kinda mouth that illusions got on it. :smallbiggrin: I can see much hilarity ensuing there.

[Alfryd]

What might be funny is for someone to ntell Balkar "not to drop the soap" and Belkar just looks at him in puzzlement and says "Soap?"
Now now. We've no reason to suspect Belkar is notably shabby in his grooming.

They should put him in the cell next to Miko's... That'll be good.
I really, really, really have very bad vibes about that scenario. I mean cassandra-complex, apocalyptically bad.
Which means it will probably happen.

[Jewel Thief]

Roy has a plah for Belkar, remember? Maybe they'll take the Mark of Justice off so he can fight? I hope so, that mark side-plot has gone on long enough...

[Teh_Jakester]

The Mark has only had ONE funny Joke. (2, if you count You Killed My Father. Prepare to Die-boy's solution.)

[Kreistor]

I highly doubt Belkar will be in anything except the anti-magic area. If Gelkar knows something about the Blackguard, with Sabine and Miko there, too, Belkar may instigate Miko's conversion to Blackguard. It would be great revenge, and it might make him responsible for Roy's death much later, since Miko is Roy's nemesis.

Belkar alone in a little cell has no story potential at this point, if he can't escape. So he needs to be somewhere else for plot purposes.

[totalnerduk]

Perhaps Roy will have the Sapphire Guard decide in favour of making Roy's continued proximity Belkar's punishment. If they decide never to remove the mark then Roy will have to be continually on hand to keep Belkar from dying, and Belkar will be forced to protect Roy, whom he would very much like to kill at this point.

Of course, Roy would not be happy, but when is he ever?

[Skippy the Dire]

Probable Cell block arrangement:

Thog, Belkar, Miko, Illusionary Belkar.

Alternate:

Thog, Miko, Belkar, with Belkar replacing illusionary Belkar.

[Teh_Jakester]

And waht of Nale?

[Professor Tanhauser]

Now now. We've no reason to suspect Belkar is notably shabby in his grooming.



Well, belakr is a ranger, meaning he has to stalk things thru the woods, and to do that successfully i'd assumed a guy would have to have an "au nartural" scent and not smell like soap, cologne, etc.

Plus it would mnake things unpleasant for roy, V, etc. :smallbiggrin:

[Teh_Jakester]

They can't smell. They don't have noses.

[Steward]

since Miko is Roy's nemesis.

Roy doesn't have a nemesis. All he has are foes [Xykon and Miko] and evil opposites [Thog].

I don't think that Belkar will make it in jail. Hinjo will probably have a cleric cast 'geas' on him to compel him to fight only Xykon's forces and that'll solve the problem. Either that, or he and Miko can carry on their rivalry in the cells while the rest of the Order fights.

[DarkPhilosopher]

And three strips trading only insults? I don't think so. The Giant thinks big. Funny, but big funny. He will surprise us.

[Professor Tanhauser]

They can't smell. They don't have noses.

If that's true how did Belkar smell Nale?

[Callista]

you're forgetting that Belkar is a halfling and thus has a modicum of culture however CE he is... He knows about food, after all; why not grooming? Seems like Belkar; he thinks he's hot anyway, why not look his best? And he's not a "woodsy" ranger type anyway; he hasn't got any ranks in Track!

[Demented]

How you call a Ranger "woodsy" when the only class features he uses are favored enemies and two-weapon-fighting...

[Ariko]

you're forgetting that Belkar is a halfling and thus has a modicum of culture however CE he is... He knows about food, after all; why not grooming? Seems like Belkar; he thinks he's hot anyway, why not look his best? And he's not a "woodsy" ranger type anyway; he hasn't got any ranks in Track!

No, its survival he doesnt have ranks in, hes demonstrated ability to track, within the limits of his attention span.

[jmucchiello]

No, its survival he doesnt have ranks in, hes demonstrated ability to track, within the limits of his attention span.Track is a feat. Survival is the skill employed by the Track feat to determine success when tracking. Without Survival, Track is useless.

[Callista]

Ack, I can't believe I made that mistake!

Yeah.

Anyway, Belko's constantly complaining that the humans smell--"I've been trying to drop hints for a while now"--so he does have a concept of hygiene.

[Josh Inno]

However survival can be used untrained, so thus a ranger with 0 ranks in track could potentially follow a trail that’s easy to follow but still requires track.

[Aquillion]

I don't think that Belkar will make it in jail. Hinjo will probably have a cleric cast 'geas' on him to compel him to fight only Xykon's forces and that'll solve the problem. Either that, or he and Miko can carry on their rivalry in the cells while the rest of the Order fights.You're forgetting: Hinjo is hardline lawful. He just finished condemning his uncle to prison and a trial for finessing the law in just that fashion.

Belkar committed a crime, therefore he goes to jail. A paladin doesn't get to say "Oh, we'll give him time off for good behavior" or whatever just because it would be convenient.

[atteSmythe]

Belkar is a fun character, but his alignment is really starting to hamper the OotS. While it's probably too drastic a change, he'd probably fit in a lot better with the Linear Guild.

[The_Old_Fox]

I dunno, :belkar: might take to jail. Unlike :elan: he may have taken points in craft (shive) and it is not his first time doing time. So really all his CE is not his fault, he is a product of the system unable to adapt to things on the outside. :smallwink:

:belkar: "They told me it would be like this on the outside, crazy adventures, trying to save the world, and people still not liking it when I murder them. sigh."

[Professor Tanhauser]

Hmmm, what if belkar takes a sword cut to the forehead that bisects hinjo's precious MoJ? WOuld that keep it from working? What if someone like redcloak, not familiar with belkar's insanity, assumes he's being boosted by a spell and casts an anti-magic spell on him, could that wire out the dreaded MoJ?

Or suppose belkar just says "Screw you, I'm not fighting for this city until you take this &*((#*#)@#*&#$#)(~!!! MoJ off me?"

[Ariko]

Dispel magic wouldnt remove it, but break enchantment would

[slayerx]

Or suppose belkar just says "Screw you, I'm not fighting for this city until you take this &*((#*#)@#*&#$#)(~!!! MoJ off me?"
Rebutal... just toss him over the wall in front of the hobgoblin horde... kinda limits his choices there =P

Not to mention, MoJ or no MoJ... it's hard to imagine that Belkar would pass up such a hobgoblin slaughterfest =P

[Professor Tanhauser]

Rebutal... just toss him over the wall in front of the hobgoblin horde... kinda limits his choices there =P

Not to mention, MoJ or no MoJ... it's hard to imagine that Belkar would pass up such a hobgoblin slaughterfest =P

Hinjo better hope belkar doesn't catch him out there.

[Teh_Jakester]

Other way around.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Other way around.

Belkar lain miko out cold once, he could handle hinjo.

[baltor85]

What might be funny is for someone to ntell Balkar "not to drop the soap" and Belkar just looks at him in puzzlement and says "Soap?"

You're forgetting that the Giant has already used up that joke. When Elan and Thog were in jail, Thog said, "nale told thog to stay in jail with not-nale until nale comes back for thog. told thog 'don't drop soap'." In 387. I don't really think the Giant would repeat a joke like that.

[Teh_Jakester]

...But not the "Soap?" part.

[baltor85]

Meh, maybe. Even if he would use that part of the joke, I don't think he would think it up by himself, and he hardly ever takes things the forumers think he will. Oh well.

Back on topic, I see Belkar getting free somehow. Be it hobgoblins smashing up the tower in which he's being held, or Hinjo letting him out to fight, or whatever.

[Callista]

I don't think Hinjo will do anything unlawful to Belkar; but there are things beyond his control which may allow Belkar free. Also, there may be lawful things that are not prison or execution. There could be a geas clause in the law somewhere--we just don't know enough about Azure City's legal system to say for sure that Belkar's only possible sentences are imprisonment or execution.

[DGM]

Of course, Roy would not be happy, but when is he ever?

When Celia, +5 weapon upgrades and long, frustrating plot-lines (coughaphasiacough) finally coming to an end are involved.

Now if there was only some really creative way to combine the three...

[Mordaedil]

They are all in the same cell.

I don't see why Belkar needs to have his Mark of Justice removed, he can still fight in the upcoming battle. Because, if you recall, most of Xykons army are undead or outside of the walls. Belkar's Mark of Justice will only kick if he kills a living target within a "city".

[Charity322]

The Mark of Justice was only put on because Belkar was being let out of jail. Now he's back in jail would they have just taken it off anyway because it wasn't necessary? The only reason for keeping it on is if he managed to escape again ... but then I guess he has already escaped once hehe.

[MrBean13]

The Mark of Justice was only put on because Belkar was being let out of jail. Now he's back in jail would they have just taken it off anyway because it wasn't necessary? The only reason for keeping it on is if he managed to escape again ... but then I guess he has already escaped once hehe.

:belkar:'s in an antimagic cell so the MoJ is useless. But if he manages to escape the mark will show its effect if he is too far away from :roy:.

[Teh_Jakester]

They are all in the same cell.

I don't see why Belkar needs to have his Mark of Justice removed, he can still fight in the upcoming battle. Because, if you recall, most of Xykons army are undead or outside of the walls. Belkar's Mark of Justice will only kick if he kills a living target within a "city".

Within Twenty Miles of a city.
He can still cause Non-Letal Damage, though.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Well, maybe belkar can get rid of the MoJ some way, or maybe the antimagic field killed it and it would have to be reset, I doin't do D&D so I don't know if it would return once out of the antimagic field.

BTW, if belkar hates roy and v so much, why'd he ever join the OotS anyway? Money? Roy doesn't come off as loaded. Promise of wealth? Boy has roy failed to follow thru on that.

[atteSmythe]

It's explained reasonably well in Origins. Oh, and anti-magic fields merely suppress preexisting magic, not negate it, so while the mark would be inactive while he's in the cell, it would reassert itself when he leaves.

[Charity322]

BTW, if belkar hates roy and v so much, why'd he ever join the OotS anyway? Money? Roy doesn't come off as loaded. Promise of wealth? Boy has roy failed to follow thru on that.

He needed to get out of town quickly, in the presence of a heavily armed group hehe.

[Callista]

And anyway, Belkar likes the slaughtering involved in being an adventurer.

I think the battle could easily damage the jail. All those spells and catapulted rocks and whatnot could be enough to set the prisoners free in the mayhem--after all, if Scoundre'l can damage the city walls, there's no reason why the prison tower (and towers are pretty vulnerable targets for rocks and spells, et cetera) shouldn't be hit by something that allows Belkar and the others out.

Re. Belkar's MoJ: He can still kill undead within city limits. And if Roy gets him some Merciful weapons, he can even take down hobgoblins without taking a penalty to do nonlethal.

[Meshakhad]

Well, my theory is that Xykon penetrates to the throne room, only to discover that Shojo planted a Super Booby Trap Spell of Last Resort on it. The resulting explosion destroys Azure City.
Hinjo, :redcloak: , Xykon's phylactery, :mitd: , :roach: , and the Order (excluding :belkar: ) are outside the city at the time, and they survive. :miko:, :belkar:, :nale:, :thog:, and :sabine: are in the AM block, and the antimagic field stops the Super Booby Trap Spell of Last Resort.

Following the explosion, Belkar either attempts to kill Miko, since Azure City no longer exists, or hightails it to rejoin the Order. The Linear Guild and Miko go their separate ways.

[Silverlocke980]

I think everyone is forgetting something- no one knows how Belkar got out of the last cell, since the only one who heard him ask about "is this cell anti-magic?" promptly died (and got his blood turned into impromptu paint by everyone's favorite halfling).

Basically, I see no reason Belkar would be in an anti-magic cell, unless for the already stated purpose of letting Roy escort Hinjo without provoking the Mark of Justice.

Meaning Rings-of-Jumping-in-Disturbing-Places should still work fine. :)

[brian c]

how are we still arguing about whether or not the cell is anti-magic? They've said specifically that it's the anti-magic cell block not just one cell, and Belkar as we can see in 419 is in the same cell block as the Linear Guild.

I agree with Charity; the MoJ was only there because it was a condition for him to be allowed to stay free, so now that he's in jail again I don't see why they wouldn't have just removed it, especially knowing that there's a big battle coming up soon and they'll need all the help they can get. Also, Hinjo is more Good than Lawful, so I think he'd let Belkar go or give him a light punishment if it would be for the greater good. Besides, he's the ruler of the city now, so he can tweak the laws if he wants.