PaladinJohn
2014-04-30, 12:27 AM
Hello! This is my first post on the forums!
I'm looking for some constructive criticism regarding a base class I cobbled together. First, let me give you a little bit of a background on the problem I'm facing, the constraints about this build, and the goal I'm aiming for with this class.
The Problem: Much to my dismay, there exists no base class in either 3.5 or Pathfinder that emulates the essence of Red Mage. Yes, there are many classes and archetypes that come close, and if you squint your eyes enough you can almost pretend you're playing a Red Mage. However, one of my goals in D&D is to play a Red Mage type character in a campaign, to this effect, and to get the essence of Red Mage consolidated into a base class, I must resort to creating it myself.
The Constraints: My play group is very leery of any home brew. VERY Leery. I can't blame them as I myself am also very leery of home brew, especially in the 3.5 environment where things can easily get out of hand if not properly constructed and balanced. The Red Mage itself is a very dangerous thing to tinker with since it's high versatility and utility make it a prime target for abuse, and could set off red flags with any DM I try to pitch this too. To that end, I'm trying to make this class so underpowered that even the most skittish DM can agree this does not challenge or threaten the balance of the game. At the same time, it still needs to be playable, fun, and encompass what it is to be a Red Mage. My reasoning is if a base, underpowered version of the class can be created, then it can slowly be upgraded until it falls in line with the appropriate power level of the other pathfinder base classes. While I appreciate any attempts to buff this class and get it close to pathfinder power level for future consideration, I am really looking for a blatantly underpowered class right now. Baby steps.
The Goal: Let me start by defining the core requirements that are necessary to properly emulate what I am looking for in the base class.
1. It must be able to have at least 3/4 BAB and wield longswords.
2. It must be able to wear medium armor, wear shields, and cast arcane spells in both without failure.
3. It must be able to cast damaging Arcane spells that deal respectable damage.
4. It must be able to cast the Cure line of spells, up to Cure Critical, and perhaps a few other status removal/protection spells.
The closest to a class option that meets these requirements and almost gets the feel of a Red Mage would be the Arcane Duelist archetype for Bards. If it lost the bardic music, was given more damaging spells, and did not get heavy armor proficiency I would be happy with it, but alas.
Also, for those of you who are familiar with Final Fantasy and know the source for this inspiration, excellent! However, please keep in mind that I'm trying to get a famicom era type of Red Mage. Double Cast and en-spells need not apply. (Though perhaps one day as I bring the power level up to be in line these things can creep their way back into the build.)
Now that you know what I'm looking for, I'll post up what I have. I used Bard as a template to start with. Of core base classes, bard is closest to the essence of a red mage, so if you see any similarities to bard, that would be why! I tried to keep this core as much as possible, however there were some gaps in the spell list that had to be filled with spells from other source books. If a spell is not core, or one of the two homebrew spells I described at the end of the post, it can be found in either the APG, or Ultimate Magic. Thanks ahead of time for the review, and I look forward to seeing the comments and critiques all of you have! If you have any questions about the build or my logic behind any of my choices, please feel free to ask.
RED MAGE
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge(All), Linguistics, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, Use Magic Device
Skill Ranks per Level: 4+ INT modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A red mage is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, and shortbow. Red mages are also proficient with Light and Medium armor and shields (except tower shields). A red mage can cast red mage spells while wearing light or medium armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.
Spells: Spontaneous and INT based.
BAB: 3/4 progression.
Saves: All Good.
Spells per day & Spells known progression: Same as bard.
Spell List
Level 0: Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Flare, Ghost Sound, Know Direction, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Resistance, Stabilize
Level 1: Alarm, Animate Rope, Cause Fear, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Confusion (Lesser), Cure Light Wounds, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self, Erase, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Grease, Hideous Laughter, Identify, Produce Flame, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Reduce Person, Remove Fear, Shield of Faith, Shocking Grasp, Silent Image, Sleep, Summon Monster I, Undetectable Alignment, Unseen Servant
Level 2: Alter Self, Animal Messenger, Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Bull's Strength, Calm Emotions, Cat's Grace, Cure Moderate Wounds, Daze Monster, Delay Poison, Detect Thoughts, Eagle's Splendor, Enthrall, Fox's Cunning, Frigid Touch, Glitterdust, Heroism, Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Locate Object, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Misdirection, Pyrotechnics, Rage, Resist Energy, Silence, Sound Burst, Suggestion, Summon Monster II, Summon Swarm, Tongues, Touch of Idiocy, Whispering Wind
Level 3: Arcane Concordance, Bestow Curse, Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Fear, Fireball, Gaseous Form, Glibness, Good Hope, Haste, Invisibility Sphere, Lightning Bolt, Major Image, Phantom Steed, Protection from Energy, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Scrying, Sculpt Sound, See Invisibility, Slow, Tiny Hut, Vampiric Touch, Web
Level 4: Break Enchantment, Cure Critical Wounds, Curse of Magic Negation, Dimension Door, Divine Power, Dominate Person, Freedom of Movement, Hold Monster, Ice Storm, Invisibility (Greater), Legend Lore, Locate Creature, Modify Memory, Neutralize Poison, Phantasmal Killer, Rainbow Pattern, Reduce Person (Mass), Secure Shelter, Shadow Conjuration, Shout, Spell Immunity
Level 5: Baleful Polymorph, Cloudkill, Cure Light Wounds (Mass), Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Dispel Magic (Greater), Flame Strike, Heroism (Greater), Holy Smite (et. all), Persistent Image, Raise Dead, Resonating Word, Seeming, Song of Discord, Spell Resistance, Teleport, Unwilling Shield
Level 6: Analyze Dweomer, Animate Objects, Chain Lightning, Charm Monster (Mass), Cure Moderate Wounds (Mass), Delayed Blast Fireball, Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Eyebite, Flesh to Stone, Freezing Sphere, Holy Aura (et. all), Invisibility (Mass), Irresistible Dance, Osmose, Power Word: Stun, Prismatic Spray, Programmed Image, Project Image, Slow (Greater), Word of Recall
- Gets Lore Master at 6th, increases once more per day every six levels at 12th and 18th level.
- Gets Jack-of-all-trades at level 12. All skills are considered class skills at level 18. Does not get the level 19 ability for Jack-of-all-trades.
Osmose (Spell): Causes the target to randomly lose one spell slot. The Red Mage then recovers a random spell slot of the target's lost spell slot level. If no spell slot is missing for that level, check the next lowest level. If no spell slots are missing for the target's lost spell slot or lower, then none of the Red Mage's spell slots are recovered. Will negates.
Slow (Greater): Same as slow, except the penalties to AC, Attacks, and Reflex Saves are increased to -2. (Debated increasing the save DC for this spell, but figured it already gets an additional +3 to the save DC by virtue of being a higher level spell.)
I'm looking for some constructive criticism regarding a base class I cobbled together. First, let me give you a little bit of a background on the problem I'm facing, the constraints about this build, and the goal I'm aiming for with this class.
The Problem: Much to my dismay, there exists no base class in either 3.5 or Pathfinder that emulates the essence of Red Mage. Yes, there are many classes and archetypes that come close, and if you squint your eyes enough you can almost pretend you're playing a Red Mage. However, one of my goals in D&D is to play a Red Mage type character in a campaign, to this effect, and to get the essence of Red Mage consolidated into a base class, I must resort to creating it myself.
The Constraints: My play group is very leery of any home brew. VERY Leery. I can't blame them as I myself am also very leery of home brew, especially in the 3.5 environment where things can easily get out of hand if not properly constructed and balanced. The Red Mage itself is a very dangerous thing to tinker with since it's high versatility and utility make it a prime target for abuse, and could set off red flags with any DM I try to pitch this too. To that end, I'm trying to make this class so underpowered that even the most skittish DM can agree this does not challenge or threaten the balance of the game. At the same time, it still needs to be playable, fun, and encompass what it is to be a Red Mage. My reasoning is if a base, underpowered version of the class can be created, then it can slowly be upgraded until it falls in line with the appropriate power level of the other pathfinder base classes. While I appreciate any attempts to buff this class and get it close to pathfinder power level for future consideration, I am really looking for a blatantly underpowered class right now. Baby steps.
The Goal: Let me start by defining the core requirements that are necessary to properly emulate what I am looking for in the base class.
1. It must be able to have at least 3/4 BAB and wield longswords.
2. It must be able to wear medium armor, wear shields, and cast arcane spells in both without failure.
3. It must be able to cast damaging Arcane spells that deal respectable damage.
4. It must be able to cast the Cure line of spells, up to Cure Critical, and perhaps a few other status removal/protection spells.
The closest to a class option that meets these requirements and almost gets the feel of a Red Mage would be the Arcane Duelist archetype for Bards. If it lost the bardic music, was given more damaging spells, and did not get heavy armor proficiency I would be happy with it, but alas.
Also, for those of you who are familiar with Final Fantasy and know the source for this inspiration, excellent! However, please keep in mind that I'm trying to get a famicom era type of Red Mage. Double Cast and en-spells need not apply. (Though perhaps one day as I bring the power level up to be in line these things can creep their way back into the build.)
Now that you know what I'm looking for, I'll post up what I have. I used Bard as a template to start with. Of core base classes, bard is closest to the essence of a red mage, so if you see any similarities to bard, that would be why! I tried to keep this core as much as possible, however there were some gaps in the spell list that had to be filled with spells from other source books. If a spell is not core, or one of the two homebrew spells I described at the end of the post, it can be found in either the APG, or Ultimate Magic. Thanks ahead of time for the review, and I look forward to seeing the comments and critiques all of you have! If you have any questions about the build or my logic behind any of my choices, please feel free to ask.
RED MAGE
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge(All), Linguistics, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, Use Magic Device
Skill Ranks per Level: 4+ INT modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A red mage is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, and shortbow. Red mages are also proficient with Light and Medium armor and shields (except tower shields). A red mage can cast red mage spells while wearing light or medium armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.
Spells: Spontaneous and INT based.
BAB: 3/4 progression.
Saves: All Good.
Spells per day & Spells known progression: Same as bard.
Spell List
Level 0: Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Flare, Ghost Sound, Know Direction, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Resistance, Stabilize
Level 1: Alarm, Animate Rope, Cause Fear, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Confusion (Lesser), Cure Light Wounds, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self, Erase, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Grease, Hideous Laughter, Identify, Produce Flame, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Reduce Person, Remove Fear, Shield of Faith, Shocking Grasp, Silent Image, Sleep, Summon Monster I, Undetectable Alignment, Unseen Servant
Level 2: Alter Self, Animal Messenger, Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Bull's Strength, Calm Emotions, Cat's Grace, Cure Moderate Wounds, Daze Monster, Delay Poison, Detect Thoughts, Eagle's Splendor, Enthrall, Fox's Cunning, Frigid Touch, Glitterdust, Heroism, Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Locate Object, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Misdirection, Pyrotechnics, Rage, Resist Energy, Silence, Sound Burst, Suggestion, Summon Monster II, Summon Swarm, Tongues, Touch of Idiocy, Whispering Wind
Level 3: Arcane Concordance, Bestow Curse, Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Fear, Fireball, Gaseous Form, Glibness, Good Hope, Haste, Invisibility Sphere, Lightning Bolt, Major Image, Phantom Steed, Protection from Energy, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Scrying, Sculpt Sound, See Invisibility, Slow, Tiny Hut, Vampiric Touch, Web
Level 4: Break Enchantment, Cure Critical Wounds, Curse of Magic Negation, Dimension Door, Divine Power, Dominate Person, Freedom of Movement, Hold Monster, Ice Storm, Invisibility (Greater), Legend Lore, Locate Creature, Modify Memory, Neutralize Poison, Phantasmal Killer, Rainbow Pattern, Reduce Person (Mass), Secure Shelter, Shadow Conjuration, Shout, Spell Immunity
Level 5: Baleful Polymorph, Cloudkill, Cure Light Wounds (Mass), Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Dispel Magic (Greater), Flame Strike, Heroism (Greater), Holy Smite (et. all), Persistent Image, Raise Dead, Resonating Word, Seeming, Song of Discord, Spell Resistance, Teleport, Unwilling Shield
Level 6: Analyze Dweomer, Animate Objects, Chain Lightning, Charm Monster (Mass), Cure Moderate Wounds (Mass), Delayed Blast Fireball, Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Eyebite, Flesh to Stone, Freezing Sphere, Holy Aura (et. all), Invisibility (Mass), Irresistible Dance, Osmose, Power Word: Stun, Prismatic Spray, Programmed Image, Project Image, Slow (Greater), Word of Recall
- Gets Lore Master at 6th, increases once more per day every six levels at 12th and 18th level.
- Gets Jack-of-all-trades at level 12. All skills are considered class skills at level 18. Does not get the level 19 ability for Jack-of-all-trades.
Osmose (Spell): Causes the target to randomly lose one spell slot. The Red Mage then recovers a random spell slot of the target's lost spell slot level. If no spell slot is missing for that level, check the next lowest level. If no spell slots are missing for the target's lost spell slot or lower, then none of the Red Mage's spell slots are recovered. Will negates.
Slow (Greater): Same as slow, except the penalties to AC, Attacks, and Reflex Saves are increased to -2. (Debated increasing the save DC for this spell, but figured it already gets an additional +3 to the save DC by virtue of being a higher level spell.)