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Meynolds
2007-02-10, 06:18 PM
I'm creating an archer character as an experiment, but I don't know what race to make it.

What is a good high dex race, under +5 LA, from MMI, MMII, or MMIII?

Any ideas?

Rama_Lei
2007-02-10, 06:19 PM
Elves? Tiefling?

ishi
2007-02-10, 06:21 PM
I think Githzerai(MM1) have a +6 Dex mod, though I could be mistaken, since they're not in the SRD.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-10, 06:22 PM
Yeah, the Githzerai from the XPH or MM1 have +6 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 INT. LA +2.

You'd be best off with just an elf with no LA, though, odds are. Level adjustment kicks you in the face and takes your lunch money and precious class features.

Meynolds
2007-02-10, 06:30 PM
The elf was my first thought, but I wanted to see if there were any other good options out there that I didn't remember.

Now comes a choice: Githzerai or Elf?

Shadow
2007-02-10, 06:32 PM
What is it that you're going to build exactly?
I would assume a rogue type because of the dex, but....

Raistlin1040
2007-02-10, 06:32 PM
Elf all the way. LA will screw you so much. And chances are the extra 4 dex won't be as useful as 2 more class levels.

headwarpage
2007-02-10, 06:35 PM
Yeah, go with the elf. That +4 dex is only +2 to hit, and you'll get the same +2 to hit from two levels in any full BAB class, along with class features, HP, save progression, and all the other good stuff actual levels get you.

Grey Watcher
2007-02-10, 06:37 PM
Plus, being an Elf means you have access to the Arcane Archer class (I realize that my not be where you want to go, but having options are good, nevertheless).

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-10, 06:40 PM
Yeah, go with the elf. That +4 dex is only +2 to hit, and you'll get the same +2 to hit from two levels in any full BAB class, along with class features, HP, save progression, and all the other good stuff actual levels get you.

What he said.

Edit: the AA is worthless, though; ignore it.

Meynolds
2007-02-10, 06:42 PM
Ok then, Elf it is. Thanks for the rapid answers.

Wasn't planning on AA anyway.

Grey Watcher
2007-02-10, 06:51 PM
What he said.

Edit: the AA is worthless, though; ignore it.

Yeah, I'm more of a OotBI fan, anyway. Still, it seemed like it was worth mentioning, even though I've never actually used AA.

Ikkitosen
2007-02-10, 06:56 PM
If you're using LA buy off rules, Catfolk are worth it for 3000xp. +4 dex, +2 cha, 40' move, +1 Natural Armour, LL vision.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-10, 06:57 PM
Yeah, I'm more of a OotBI fan, anyway. Still, it seemed like it was worth mentioning, even though I've never actually used AA.

Actually, the *really* sad thing is that the 3.5 OotBI is close to worthless, too. :\

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-10, 06:58 PM
I agree with 'elf' for high dex race.

Halfling is good too, and has +1 to all resists. Small race hurts damage output, though...

As for AA being worthless... I disagree. It may not be as powertwinky as DMM Persistant Spell, but is hardly worthless.

I did make an attempt to try to repair it earlier on the Homebrew forums. Gave it 1/2 caster level and switched out a few other abilities.

cupkeyk
2007-02-10, 07:01 PM
Why hs noone mentioned Halflings? Them being small grants a +1 to hit and +2 DEX basically wins the internet. Strongheart halfling get a bonus feat.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-10, 07:01 PM
I agree with 'elf' for high dex race.

Halfling is good too, and has +1 to all resists. Small race hurts damage output, though...

As for AA being worthless... I disagree. It may not be as powertwinky as DMM Persistant Spell, but is hardly worthless.

No, no, AA isn't just suboptimal--it's actively bad. Its main ability is duplicated by a single Greater Magic Weapon spell a day, Imbue Arrow isn't particularily great even if you're a full caster (but totally worthless since AA doesn't progress casting), Arrow of Death has a very lame DC.

It's a very poor prestige class.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-10, 07:12 PM
No, no, AA isn't just suboptimal--it's actively bad. Its main ability is duplicated by a single Greater Magic Weapon spell a day, Imbue Arrow isn't particularily great even if you're a full caster (but totally worthless since AA doesn't progress casting), Arrow of Death has a very lame DC.

It's a very poor prestige class.

It's also full BAB, and you can continue shooting magic arrows, even if you don't have access to anyone capable of casting Greater Magic Weapon. Heck, you get captured, thrown in a dungeon, and stripped to your skivies... you escape, grab a bow from a guard... it's shooting magic arrows.

I love using it with Sorcerer. Things like Touch of Fatigue are handy when Imbued. Fatigue not only drops their Str and Dex by 2, but keeps them from running, which means no charging.

Granted, it is sub-optimal, which is why I posted my attempt to fix it, but hardly as horrid as all that.

After all, people enjoy Kensai PrC, and it does nearly exactly the same thing.

Raistlin1040
2007-02-10, 07:13 PM
No. Kensai rules. AA does not.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-10, 07:17 PM
No. Kensai rules. AA does not.

The difference being.... what?

AA not only gets automatic enhancement bonuses, but other abilities as well. Granted, they are seen as sub-par, but that's better than nothing.

oriong
2007-02-10, 07:19 PM
The main problem with the AA isn't it's enchant arrows ability, which is decent but not astounding. It's the fact that every other ability is bad.

First, you can't imbue touch of fatigue into an arrow, you can only imbue area effect spells. All imbue arrow does is give whatever area of effect spells you cast the range of your bow, which often isn't a significant improvement. You're also faced with the problem that most decently powerful area spells are high level, and thus require you to sacrifice a whole lot of fighting and arcane archer levels just to be able to imbue anything worthwhile.

Seeker and Phase arrow are only very slightly useful and only useful once per day for both. Considering that ranged attacks are by far the weakest of damaging attacks being able to get one arrow past cover, concealment or even armor modifiers is no grand feat.

Hail of Arrows is almost never the best choice since it's far better to drop a single opponent than it is to pepper many of them with one hit.

And arrow of death is just worthless.

The problem with AA is that so many abilities are just stuff you would never actually need, or even want to do.

Kensai is a very different class, just because they both get the ability to add enhancements to a weapon doesn't make them the same.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-10, 07:24 PM
No, no, it IS as bad as all that.

See, Kensai can get useful weapon bonuses. It can get special abilities. Like Wounding, Speed, Magebane, et cetera. Arcane Archer just gets +X arrows, which overlaps with Greater Magic Weapon cast on your bow.

Entering AA as a caster-heavy build will give you a low attack bonus. You'll be likely to miss your shot. Also, you can't Imbue touch spells, like someone said--but even if you could, that'd just mean you're likely to miss them.
If you want to deliver touch spells at range, use Reach Spell, or take an Archmage level for Arcane Reach.

The rest of the AA's abilities are worthless, as Orion has said. Kensai's Withstand ability is worth all of'em put together.

Thorodin
2007-02-10, 07:50 PM
For an Archer character, I would have to go with the elf also. Halfling also has a Dex bonus, but the penalty to Str can be limiting if you want to use a composite bow down the line.

Douglas
2007-02-10, 08:17 PM
Another point for Kensai vs AA: Kensai goes up to +10 (including special abilities) at class level 10 while AA caps out at +5 at level 9.