Charismatic Wolverines?

[Anlashok]

I was reading Savage Species for the first time earlier today and started poking around the anthropomorphic tables for character ideas.

Who the hell decided that the Wolverine was going to be the most charismatic of animals (and the ONLY animal with a charisma boost). Why are bats so wise?

Why are large sharks medium sized and why are they so much weaker than medium sharks? Why the hell do we need anthropomorphic ravens and snakes when we already have Kenku and Yuan-ti? And what's with toads and eagles being clerics when everyone else is barbarian, ranger, rogue or druid?

More seriously: Does anyone have any general suggestions for making these races more usable? Their RHDs and LA seem all over the place in terms of power. +6 wisdom and a fly speed for 1 RHD 0 LA ... and then you have few races who only get very little for their power or ECL 5 races with the same stat distribution and comparable racial features to ECL 3 races. Ech.

[Gildedragon]

On Wolverines: Marvel Comics aparently (badum-tish)

On Bats & Wis: So their listen is REALLY high

On Eagle-Toad clerics: Prolly cause the former has this really lofty sort of mystique to it, and the latter can be licked to talk with gods?

[Jeff the Green]

The abilities are based on the animals in the MM. Wolverine has the highest Charisma, at 10, so it's anthro-version sas the highest. Same with bats and Wisdom.

Don't ask me why wolverines have such high Charisma.

[WhamBamSam]

If a creature has only a single HD, that HD gets dropped for their first class level. Anthro Bats are a regular old LA+0 race like humans, which means they aren't underpowered at all. They're one of the best Druid races around.

Anthro Baleen whale is pretty popular for melee types at 3 RHD/+0 LA. It's a pretty decent trade off for the stats and size, especially when monstrous humanoid HD give full BAB.



Wolverines are obviously just the sexiest of all animals. Go Blue! Y'know... That gives me an idea for an incarnum-based society of Anthro-Wolverines. I'll make a note to introduce such a thing in some campaign at some point.

[Yanisa]

Don't ask me why wolverines have such high Charisma.

Intimidate (http://youtu.be/n-IFF9G25Cc?t=4m20s) is based on charisma in DnD.

[Anlashok]

Intimidate (http://youtu.be/n-IFF9G25Cc?t=4m20s) is based on charisma in DnD.

Oh yeah. I get that, same with senses for bats.

Does irk me a bit, wish they were skill bonuses because it has other weird connotations because ability scores do double duty.



If a creature has only a single HD, that HD gets dropped for their first class level. Anthro Bats are a regular old LA+0 race like humans, which means they aren't underpowered at all. They're one of the best Druid races around.
That's what I meant, they're ridiculously amazing for an already ridiculous class, while other ones are saddled with some pretty hefty RHD and LA for not that much benefit.

RHD makes my skin crawl.

[Yanisa]

Oh yeah. I get that, same with senses for bats.

Does irk me a bit, wish they were skill bonuses because it has other weird connotations because ability scores do double duty.


That's what I meant, they're ridiculously amazing for an already ridiculous class, while other ones are saddled with some pretty hefty RHD and LA for not that much benefit.

RHD makes my skin crawl.

On a more serious note I do believe Savage Species is famous for having horrible LA, out of power nonsense and no clue what balance is. They have great ideas, but a lot of horrible execution. Isn't is also a 3.0 book? I ain't sure but it's hard book to work with, that I know. Just cherry pick what you like, fiddle with the things you dislike and ignore the stuff that is offensive. It's an oddity. Also I am pretty sure a lot of stuff made sense to the designers (Like God Worshipping Toads) but we are left in the dust.

If you seriously want anthromoprhic animals you better off finding them someplace else. Races of the wild has Catfolk, which has LA (:smallsigh:). Pathfinder has a lot of animalfolks you could import back with some tweaks, most of them without LA or RHD. There must be more 3.5 animalfolk races, but I don't know. Or make your own.

[Urpriest]

It's not just Intimidate. Wolverines are just impressive animals, with a lot of attitude.

As for "why are there Anthropomorphic Snakes when there are Yuan-Ti"...the two fill rather dramatically different roles. Yuan-Ti have a much more complicated society, for one, with lots of levels based on form.

[John Longarrow]

Anlashok,

I'd work with the DM (or make something balanced if you ARE the DM) as Savage Species (and most LA calculations in 3.5) are horribly out of touch with reality.
A 6HD Succubi has a LA of +6.
A 3HD Imp has a LA of +5
A 1HD Fairy has a LA of +4

Make 15th level characters with each and you will find the Fairy to beat out the Imp in just about ANY category, has far better powers, and a lower LA?
The Imp can't equal the Succubi with only 4 class levels. Its soo far behind the power curve compared to the other two its pretty rediculous.

For some reason having wings gives you a +2 LA.

[The Viscount]

Who the hell decided that the Wolverine was going to be the most charismatic of animals (and the ONLY animal with a charisma boost). Why are bats so wise?

Why the hell do we need anthropomorphic ravens and snakes when we already have Kenku and Yuan-ti? And what's with toads and eagles being clerics when everyone else is barbarian, ranger, rogue or druid?

More seriously: Does anyone have any general suggestions for making these races more usable? Their RHDs and LA seem all over the place in terms of power. +6 wisdom and a fly speed for 1 RHD 0 LA ... and then you have few races who only get very little for their power or ECL 5 races with the same stat distribution and comparable racial features to ECL 3 races. Ech.

They made anthropormorphic ravens for the simple reason that Kenku didn't exist yet, or rather, the only Kenku that did exist was in OA and thus not playable. As for serpent, in addition to the reasons mentioned above, the yuan-ti all have punishingly large ECL adjusters, with the exception of tainted one and broodguard (though later adaptations raised even their LA to 3 and 4 IIRC).

As for toads and bats having high wisdom, I guess it's because they're often depicted as wise animals. That and they don't have much in the way of the other stats. As for why there's so much variance, savage species is one of the very first books to give LA to monsters, and as a result they didn't have a great grasp on what was powerful and what wasn't.

As for Wolverines, lets just say they have a certain...animal magnetism (cow.org/csi/).
...I'll show myself out.