looking for a spell to make a stone walls unbreakable forever

[Donny_Green]

This is a plot hook in an adventure I'm creating, a way to keep the larger size clan of bad guys from breaking out of their prison. Simply put, if they're too big to fit through the door, and can't break through the door, they can't get out.

By door, I mean a +20 ft long hallway of worked stone and maybe 10 X10 opening, leading from inside to outside. No actual swinging door.

By "Can't break through" I mean that it's just alot harder for them to break through thus giving our adventurers something to do.

So what I"m looking for is a spell or combination spell(s) + feat + metamagic + etc.

must be able to last for millions of years..

Must be almost impossible to dispel...

Must make the stone invulnerable to every kind of attack out there. (or almost every kind of attack)

This one might be a tall order, but I have faith in the playground. If there's a way, some one on here knows that way.

Thanks for the help all

[weckar]

So, it is more like a cage than a door?
Do these bad guys have any means of actually surviving while in it?

[Donny_Green]

So, it is more like a cage than a door?
Do these bad guys have any means of actually surviving while in it?

Within the hallway? Some of the smaller ones can get through, but the really important one's could barely fit their head in. The actual setting is a mountain, and they can survive very easily in there.

[weckar]

I think I may need a drawing of this... I assumed the hallway was sealed on both ends.

[Nirhael]

Does it have to be a spell? You could probably make it out of Ikea Tarrasques or with Tippy's usual Ice Assassin Aleax... though the latter may truly be unbreakable even with divine intervention.

[Rebel7284]

Look into:

Riverine special material.

http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/hardening--4682/ cast by a Dweomerkeeper to make it supernatural and thus only removable by Disjunction.

[John Longarrow]

Wall of Force traps that go off every round?

[weckar]

I mean, I don't want to harp on the ecological argument, but if there's a way for breathable air, water, light and food to get in, there is a way for them to get out. This seal would need to last only a few months at most, depending on their hibernative ability.

[Donny_Green]

No, the hallways/doorways are open just impossible to fit through when it comes to a certain size creature.

But said creature could probably widen the opening if it's just rock, so I need something to strengthen it with.

And something that can stand up to time and magic as well, because we're talking about trapping something really big and bad, and smart

It's all apart of the story.

But the main fact.

The hallways are still open, it's just that they've been warded against creatures trying to heighten and widen the walls.

[weckar]

Makes sense. But does this mean they would have to ward the whole inside of the mountain? There's always the good old "dig around the adamantine door" trick.

[Urpriest]

Any reason why you want it to be stone in the first place?

Why not have the barrier be something literally impermeable? Suppose the mountain is actually on a different plane, and the portal that links the two is too small for them to get through. As long as they lack the power to travel between planes (which you would have given them anyway for this trick to work) then they'll be stuck.

[Alex12]

Alright, so it's a really big creature, big enough that it can't fit through a 10X10 opening, no matter how hard it tries. I'll assume it doesn't have any shapeshifting or teleportation magic, but can do at least some fairly powerful blasty magic.

Riverine is probably your best bet. It's impervious to physical damage and counts as a force effect, because it's basically a wall of force.
The problem with stone (or even Adamantine or something) is that yes they've got hardness, but hardness can be bypassed (psionic sonic powers and the Mountain Hammer line both explicitly ignore hardness, just offhand) or overwhelmed (even adamantine hardness only ignores 20 damage, so with enough time and the ability to deal at least 21 damage, it'll eventually wear through)
So, coat the entire inside of the cage with riverine. Or at least enough riverine that there's no more than a 10x10 opening anywhere. Say it's some kind of epic spell or something that does it. Either that, or the things were knocked out or otherwise incapacitated when they were locked in, and then whoever it was put the riverine in behind them. Just make sure the bad guys can't get access to Disintegrate effects.

[weckar]

Another concern: does this ward need to be placed while the creature is right there? This might place a time constraint on the spell, or a need to equally defend the caster. [chicken, meet egg]

[ericgrau]

Permanency + wall of force? Can't be dispelled. Needs disintegrate or disjunction. Invisible so you might use them alone or in front of stone.

With craft wondrous item you can magically reinforce walls for 1,500 gp for each 10 foot-by-10-foot wall section. CL=crafter CL. +20 break DC, x2 hardness, x2 hp. Since it seems like a magic item it would only be dispelled for 1d4 rounds which may not be enough time to break even regular stone. Damaged magic items remain magical, only destroyed ones lose the magic.

[Donny_Green]

Look into:

Riverine special material.

http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/hardening--4682/ cast by a Dweomerkeeper to make it supernatural and thus only removable by Disjunction.

looking into that now.. thanks

[Donny_Green]

Makes sense. But does this mean they would have to ward the whole inside of the mountain? There's always the good old "dig around the adamantine door" trick.

You bring up an anticipated point, and without exposing any secrets, lets just say it's takes more than a pic axe and patience to open a new tunnel. There are some intrigues involved in this said monsters society.

Though I'd still have to use enough of said spell or material, to make trying to expand the L and W of the tunnel a worthless pursuit.

All that being said.. new tunnels do pop up every century or two.

[Donny_Green]

Permanency + wall of force? Can't be dispelled. Needs disintegrate or disjunction. Invisible so you might use them alone or in front of stone.

With craft wondrous item you can magically reinforce walls for 1,500 gp for each 10 foot-by-10-foot wall section. CL=crafter CL. +20 break DC, x2 hardness, x2 hp. Since it seems like a magic item it would only be dispelled for 1d4 rounds which may not be enough time to break even regular stone. Damaged magic items remain magical, only destroyed ones lose the magic.

I read this spell last night, and it seemed to me the problem is that I can't make it horizontal.

[Donny_Green]

Another concern: does this ward need to be placed while the creature is right there? This might place a time constraint on the spell, or a need to equally defend the caster. [chicken, meet egg]

There would probably be resistance at the site in which the party must preform the task... but not one of the big baddies. More like a smaller baddie and some of his/her worshipers.

[Anxe]

Binding should work. You'd have to successfully cast it once for each creature trapped in there, but it traps them inside for good.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/binding.htm

[weckar]

So, all the smaller ones would also still be locked in, or just the biggest ones?

[also, never a need for quad posts]

[Donny_Green]

So, all the smaller ones would also still be locked in, or just the biggest ones?

[also, never a need for quad posts]

one or two are probably small enough to get out, but again due to more plot twist and intrigues, they wouldn't exactly want to leave.

It would be smarter for them to attract worshipers from the barbarian tribes around the mountain, who bring them tributes.

Only the biggest and the baddest are hell bent on leaving the mountain, and they were it's original captures.... The smaller one's are just an expansion of the family.

[Donny_Green]

I should also mention this isn't the only defense against escape, nor even the primary defense.

But I can't give away all my secrets.

[weckar]

Unless you're afraid your players may be reading this; the more information we have the better we can help you.

[Donny_Green]

Unless you're afraid your players may be reading this; the more information we have the better we can help you.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of.

Though I've already got some really good ideas from the little bit so far.

[Donny_Green]

Alright, so it's a really big creature, big enough that it can't fit through a 10X10 opening, no matter how hard it tries. I'll assume it doesn't have any shapeshifting or teleportation magic, but can do at least some fairly powerful blasty magic.

Riverine is probably your best bet. It's impervious to physical damage and counts as a force effect, because it's basically a wall of force.
The problem with stone (or even Adamantine or something) is that yes they've got hardness, but hardness can be bypassed (psionic sonic powers and the Mountain Hammer line both explicitly ignore hardness, just offhand) or overwhelmed (even adamantine hardness only ignores 20 damage, so with enough time and the ability to deal at least 21 damage, it'll eventually wear through)
So, coat the entire inside of the cage with riverine. Or at least enough riverine that there's no more than a 10x10 opening anywhere. Say it's some kind of epic spell or something that does it. Either that, or the things were knocked out or otherwise incapacitated when they were locked in, and then whoever it was put the riverine in behind them. Just make sure the bad guys can't get access to Disintegrate effects.

A high magic spell of "wall of riverine" on an item. That's the kind of magic item you have to go on a side quest for... I love it.

And considering this does take place on an inland ocean it fit's thematically too

[hymer]

You could make it so that digging/mining will collapse the whole place down on them. A large area is hollowed out, and then reconstructed (with stoneshape and the like if necesarry) in such a way that any real damage to the wall will bring down the rest.

[Pinkie Pyro]

hallow+make whole.

the rules for this are not explained in the least, but assuming it's a constant effect, the walls would be fixed at least once per round for a year, if not constantly. the problem with this is that disintegrate still can destroy your walls.

you could, prehaps, use scult spell to fill the area of the wall with make whole hallows, and then fill the inner area with anti-magic field+hallow.

[da_chicken]

I'm curious why you're looking for a way to do this with the rules instead of just "this is how it works because the story demands it".

You also have to consider that even the most trivial wonderous magic items alter the effects of the spells that form them. Boots of striding and springing do more than longstrider. Cube of force does more than wall of force. Magically fabricated walls can certainly be researched and constructed.

Probably the easiest way to do this, though, without having to worry about the possible means of escape is to make the prison a pocket dimension. The doorway/passage is such that it can only be opened from the outside. Perhaps it functions by means of a magical portal constructed with gate, or functions like a permanent Mordenkainen's mansion. It doesn't really matter unless it's something the players need to know how to recreate, and even then it they just need to know the cost. If you need to have some of the enemies escape, just make it be two prison planes instead of one.

You literally have a magic wand. Don't sweat the details if you don't have to. If they ask, you just say, "You have no idea how they constructed such a marvel, but this is how it behaves."

[Donny_Green]

I'm curious why you're looking for a way to do this with the rules instead of just "this is how it works because the story demands it".

You also have to consider that even the most trivial wonderous magic items alter the effects of the spells that form them. Boots of striding and springing do more than longstrider. Cube of force does more than wall of force. Magically fabricated walls can certainly be researched and constructed.

Probably the easiest way to do this, though, without having to worry about the possible means of escape is to make the prison a pocket dimension. The doorway/passage is such that it can only be opened from the outside. Perhaps it functions by means of a magical portal constructed with gate, or functions like a permanent Mordenkainen's mansion. It doesn't really matter unless it's something the players need to know how to recreate, and even then it they just need to know the cost. If you need to have some of the enemies escape, just make it be two prison planes instead of one.

You literally have a magic wand. Don't sweat the details if you don't have to. If they ask, you just say, "You have no idea how they constructed such a marvel, but this is how it behaves."

Never said I'd make the magic item strictly from the rules.. But I do want to use something from the books because it helps me leave clues as to what the item does.

[Donny_Green]

You could make it so that digging/mining will collapse the whole place down on them. A large area is hollowed out, and then reconstructed (with stoneshape and the like if necesarry) in such a way that any real damage to the wall will bring down the rest.

That'd be tricky considering there's digging and mining going on before the party even reaches the island.

[Silva Stormrage]

One thing to try is earth fast from spell compendium. It is an instantaneous spell that doubles the hit points on stone and increases hardness to 10. It is instantaneous rather than permanent so there is no real reason why you can't keep casting the spell until the wall has effectively infinite hit points.

[Donny_Green]

hallow+make whole.

the rules for this are not explained in the least, but assuming it's a constant effect, the walls would be fixed at least once per round for a year, if not constantly. the problem with this is that disintegrate still can destroy your walls.

you could, prehaps, use scult spell to fill the area of the wall with make whole hallows, and then fill the inner area with anti-magic field+hallow.

I'll look into this in a little bit, thanks.

[Gemini476]

If you want to prevent the critters from escaping, why not just have it in a huge vat of Quintessence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm)? Is there any particular reason for why they need to be conscious?

Also, having them in Quintessence allows you to make a completely closed room out of Riverine or something similar, perhaps coating the entire outside with lead so that you can't scry inside. And then another layer of Riverine, to stop future archeologists from removing the lead. And then stick the entire thing in a demiplane and mix around with the settings to make it extremely inhospitable and nigh-impossible to enter/exit.

I mean, if you don't want them to be able to escape then it's not that difficult to make it so that they can't even try.

You could also just cast one of several Save-or-Dies that don't kill you but just keep you alive forever.

[Half-Wizard]

I read this spell last night, and it seemed to me the problem is that I can't make it horizontal.

No problem! Imagine a 10x10 tunnel, vertical walls of force along the sides, leaving the ceiling and floor unprotected. Now imagine vertical walls of force running along the center of the top and bottoms of the tunnel. Although you could blast away the rock of the ceiling and floor, the walls of force would remain, preventing excessively large creatures from getting through the area. Here's a diagram of what a section would look like (F is wall of force, period is rock):



...........
.....F.....
.....F.....
.....F.....
.....F.....
..F F..
..F F..
..F F..
..F F..
.....F.....
.....F.....
.....F.....
.....F.....
...........

[Jack_Simth]

If it's just a size issue, then there's a third level spell that says hello (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gaseousForm.htm), which Clerics and Druids can sort of do too (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/windWalk.htm).

But yes - Riverene, Stormwrack, is about your best bet. It can still be Disjoined or Disintegrated, of course, but basically nothing in D&D that has stats can't be disposed of in one way or another.

[The Hellbug]

Is there any reason that this needs to be a material that rules exist for? If not, my suggestion is to just make something up. If the world set-up demands magic-rock-that-can't-be-broken, just make up a material that fits the bill. Just try to be consistent with it.

[Alex12]

Is there any reason that this needs to be a material that rules exist for? If not, my suggestion is to just make something up. If the world set-up demands magic-rock-that-can't-be-broken, just make up a material that fits the bill. Just try to be consistent with it.

Heck, you could borrow a material from another WotC product and say "Yeah, the walls, floor, and ceiling are made of darksteel. It's totally indestructible, nothing can damage it. You could throw Disintegration, PaO, and Mountain Hammer at it all day and all you'd accomplish is wearing yourself out."

[ericgrau]

That invites two dangerous questions though:
1. How was the darksteel formed there in the first place?
2. How much does it cost? (trouble when sold if expensive, trouble when bought if cheap)

[Alex12]

That invites two dangerous questions though:
1. How was the darksteel formed there in the first place?
2. How much does it cost? (trouble when sold if expensive, trouble when bought if cheap)
1. A wizard did it (or a god did it, or a magical accident, or whatever)
2. It's an indestructible box that can't be turned into anything else because it's indestructible and therefore can't be altered. So if they can't get any more of it, and they can't break it down, then it's just a big indestructible box. I mean, maybe you could find a buyer for a big indestructible box with one opening, but I don't know how much you could get for it.

[One Step Two]

Okay, so I got one for you. The Walls, Floors, and Ceilings are made of Obdurium, as thick as you like, and given the Dweomerkeeper treatment of Hardening as mentioned above.
The Same Dweomerkeeper can cast a Su Permanent Awaken Construct on all 4 walls and ceiling and floor.
Now, the foundations they stand on, or hidden in the joins, etc., are resetting traps of Total Repair (Magic of Ebberon). They cannot be dispelled due to no line of effect.

They keep their hardness, gain bonus hit-points, and the traps are set to go off if anything would reduce them below half hit-points.

The same could be done to riverine, but I think there's magic in there somewhere, and awaken construct doesn't work on magic items.

Edit: Had a chance to read the stronghold builders guide, instead of just recalling Obdurium as a bad-ass material You can toss on Magically treated, for +20 to the break DC and, doubling the hardness and hitpoints. Toss on Ethereal Solid, and you've covered most of your bases.