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View Full Version : Could it work: Ethereal Ghost Touch Arrows



Collin152
2007-02-10, 09:40 PM
Okay, hear me out. Enchant some arrows to be Ghost Touch. Get them on the ethereal plane while you yourself are Material. Now, have a ghost Touch Gaunlet on, and have some manner of magic quiver that will hold the ethereal arrows. (I dont have my books with me, so I assume Ghost Touch is not confered upon ammunition.) String up your bow with a strand from a ghost touch whip (AKA< a ghost touch string, or a ghost touch bow in general). FIre the ethereal arrow. It should go through material barriers and such until it hits your target, assuming I remember the rules correctly, which in all likelyhood, I don't.
If I'm wrong, just say : "Collin, your a senile old fool and don't know what your talking about"

ken-do-nim
2007-02-10, 09:42 PM
Ghost touch has nothing to do with the ethereal plane. It affects incorporeal creatures on the material plane.

Collin152
2007-02-10, 09:48 PM
Bah! You were supposed to call me a senile old fool!

Thomas
2007-02-10, 09:51 PM
Collin, you're a senile old fool and don't know what you're talking about!


Like ken-do-nim said, ghost touch is absolutely no use against anything that's ethereal. It just works on incorporeal things (which may or may not be visible; shadows, wraiths, allips, and spectres are incorporeal and visible, for instance).

Ghost touch is not available for ranged weapons, so I presume it doesn't work on them. The description also doesn't specify that ranged weapons would confer the ability on ammunition fired with them.

How using ghost touch gauntlets and part of a now-broken ghost touch whip would affect arrows in any way, I don't understand. If you tie a ghost touch axe to your regular sword, and wield it in a hand covered by a ghost touch gauntlet, the sword still doesn't get the ghost touch special ability. That's just silly.

Collin152
2007-02-10, 11:17 PM
Yeah, i suppose it is. I'll just move into the home, now. Somehow I can't comprehend the difference between Incorporeal and Ethereal. Stupid ghosts. You mess everything up. House Rule central, here I come! (I am always DM, you see, so i can house Rule whatever my Senile old mind comes up with)

Thomas
2007-02-11, 12:33 AM
It is difficult, and yes, I think ghosts may be partly to blame (since they are where ethereality comes into play most, but they're also incorporeal).

Let's see if I can clarify the situation, and use the ghost as an example... I'm having to read up on it myself, doing this.


From the rules, on Etherealness: "Unlike incorporeal creatures, ethereal creatures are not present on the Material Plane."

This is an important distinction. They're not present at all. They can't be affected, unless it's something that specifically extends into the Ethereal (I think some gaze attacks do). Incorporeal creatures are present, and can be affected - there's just the 50% chance that an effect or attack originating from a corporeal/material creature doesn't work on them (and that nonmagic weapons don't even have that chance). Ghost touch weapons overcome precisely this; they always work on incorporeal creatures, and can be manipulated by incorporeal creatures.

"Ethereal creatures are invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane."

Incorporeal creatures, meanwhile, are usually visible by default.

"An ethereal creature can see and hear into the Material Plane in a 60-foot radius, though material objects still block sight and sound. (An ethereal creature can’t see through a material wall, for instance.)"

Here's part of the big confusion. Ethereal creatures can see, in a limited fashion, the Material Plane. But they can not interact with it while ethereal (unless using something that specifically crosses the Ethereal-Material boundary), and they can't be seen.

Incorporeal creatures can see normally - up to any range, limited by darkness and the like.

"Even if a creature on the Material Plane can see an ethereal creature the ethereal creature is on another plane. Only force effects can affect the ethereal creatures. If, on the other hand, both creatures are ethereal, they can affect each other normally.

A force effect originating on the Material Plane extends onto the Ethereal Plane, so that a wall of force blocks an ethereal creature, and a magic missile can strike one (provided the spellcaster can see the ethereal target). Gaze effects and abjurations also extend from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane. None of these effects extend from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane."

Here we go; specifics. Force effects (like magic missile) can go from Material to Ethereal, and vice versa. Gaze attacks and abjurations also cross the boundary (I had no idea about the latter!).

"Ghosts have a power called manifestation that allows them to appear on the Material Plane as incorporeal creatures. Still, they are on the Ethereal Plane, and another ethereal creature can interact normally with a manifesting ghost."

Now here's the confusion. Ghosts seem like the most accessible example both for incorporealness and etherealness, but are actually a special case of both! Unexpected. When they manifest, they are incorporeally present on the Material, but still normally present on the Ethereal. Thus a magic missile or other force effect (or an abjuration, or a gaze attack) will affect manifested ghosts fully, while attacks with magical weapons and most other spells will have a 50% chance to affect them. If the ghost is not manifesting, it cannot be seen (unless you can see into the Ethereal), and cannot be struck at all (if you can see it in the Ethereal, you can cast force spells at it, though).

Wow, complex. I doubt I'll remember all of that properly next time I run ghosts, myself.