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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other New Race: The Kreshen (Living Weapons) [WIP] [PEACH]



Mousedigits
2014-05-01, 09:12 PM
Inspired by this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Telums_(3.5e_Race)) race.

The Kreshen
There are some weapons that, by magical interference, have a special intelligence. They can be the greatest of an adventurer's possessions, or the worst. They are capable of thinking, planning, plotting. Even the knowledge of the arcane does not escape them. However, there is one thing they lack. And that, is a soul. There are the few Intelligent Items who, in the latter years of their "life", realize this fact. They realize that they are but objects, with a sort of "programming" instead of actual will. After some time (anywhere between hours to decades) of melancholy thinking, they decide they will do it: They will break free. And everything goes black for them. No one quite knows what happens at this stage, not even the Intelligent Item. After a few months, a new life appears in the world. Not the false life that an Intelligent Item lives, but a true life. The being, of humanoid shape, sits up to find a weapon at his side. He has no memories of his life as an Intelligent Item, but has a strange sense that he used to be contained within this weapon at his side. This is the birth of one of the Kreshen.
Playing A Kreshen
A Kreshen has ability bonuses depending on what his Intelligent Item form was:


Light Weapon
One Handed Weapon
Two-Handed Weapon
Ranged Weapon


+2 Dexterity
+2 Strength
+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity or Intelligence
+4 Dexterity, -2 Constitution or Strength.


Outsider (Augmented Construct, Native): Their original bodies were constructs, but through sheer will have grown their own humanoid looking bodies.

Medium: As Medium creatures, Kreshen have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

Speed: Kreshen have a base speed of 30'

Weapon Proficiency: A Kreshen is automatically proficient with his weapon form.

Weapon Form: A Kreshen can switch his consciousness between his body and the weapon he woke up with (From now on known as the "Weapon Form.") This is a move action. The Kreshen can still move with his body in this form, but if a Kreshen's humanoid body leaves the line of sight of their weapon form, the Kreshen is treated as blinded for the purposes of manipulating their humanoid body. A Kreshen who's weapon form is a ranged weapon can transfer his consciousness to his ammunition as well. This has few, but some, functional uses. For example, it could be used to allow two characters to infiltrate a base, when normally limited to one. Or a Long Bow Kreshen could shoot an arrow above said base to get an eagle's eye view. In addition, the Share Knowledge ability (below) can be used. A Kreshen who's body is destroyed is trapped in his weapon form, and has no influence on his surrounding, except as noted below.

If a creature picks up a Kreshen in his weapon form, he can communicate with the weilder via telepathy. In addition, he can be dominant over the weilder as an intellegent item could be dominant. The item's Ego score is base 12, with modifiers depending on different aspects of the weapon. The person being posessed must make a will saving throw, DC the Kreshen's Ego Score. Refer to the chart below. This is ONLY if the Kreshen is dead. A dead Kreshen who has resurrection or the like cast on his weapon form will return to life. This gives him a new body, and any penalties that would be normally given.



Attribute
Ego Modifier


Each +1 of itemís enhancement bonus
+1


Each +1 of bonus for special abilities
+1


Read magic ability (If he could cast it.)
+1


Each +1 of Intelligence bonus
+1


Each +1 of Wisdom bonus
+1


Each +1 of Charisma bonus
+1


Living Weapon: Effectively, a Kreshen's weapon form is a masterwork weapon. However, when activated by the Kreshen (A free action), it becomes a very deadly weapon.

The weapon, in the hands of the Kreshen, is treated as a +1 weapon. This increases by +1 per 4 ECL past first. In addition, he may get his weapon enhanced further. When he adds an enhancement bonus to his weapon, it stacks with those gained through ECL, to a maximum of +5. This cap is removed upon reaching 21st level. [Level 1 is +1, Level 5 is +2, Level 9 is +3, Level 13 is +4, Level 17 is +5.]

He may also use his racial bonus to get special abilities to his weapon, if he has a high enough ECL. The bonus of the Enchantment is subtracted from his racial bonus "Pool."

At 5 ECL, he may add the Flaming, Frost, Shock, Vicious, Keen, and Defending Enchantments.
At 9 ECL, he may add the Bane, Any of the Elemental Bursts, and Any of the Alignments Enchantments (This must match his alignment.)
At 13 ECL, he may add the Wounding and Speed Enchantments.
At 17 ECL, he may add the Brilliant Energy and Dancing Enchantments.
At 21 ECL, he may add Vorpal.
At 25 ECL, he may add any of the Elemental Blasts.
At 29 ECL, he may add Dread
At 34 ECL he may add Everdancing and the Alignment Power. Enchantments.

He can rearrange his racial bonus every 24 hours.

When buying an enhancement his weapon, however, he must pay 1.5 times the cost needed. Any in effect that negates magic, with the exception of disjunction, the weapon keeps the enhancement bonus that it gains from ECL.

A Kreshen's weapon is tougher than normal weapons. It has hit points equal to 15 per hit die of the Kreshen, and additional 10 hit points per enhancement bonus. In addition, it gets hardness equal to 2x the Kreshen's ECL. Also, against anything that could destroy or take away the weapon's ECL, such as disjunction, the weapon gains a +1 circumstance bonus per hit die of the Kreshen to the save to negate it.

If the weapon is destroyed, the Kreshen automatically stops functioning. If resurrection is cast on the body, nothing happens. All is not lost, however. The Kreshen stays in an unconscious state for 1d4 months, and after that time it wakes up, with a new weapon by it's side. This must be the same weapon as the one he had before. It retains everything from its previous life EXCEPT for its memories. It remembers nothing of its previous life, similarly to when it first awoke. The only way to truly kill a Kreshen is to kill the body, and subsequently destroy the weapon. After that, they both turn to dust, and the only way to bring back the Kreshen is to spend one or two wishes/miracles, and a resurrection. One wish to bring back the body, a resurrection to to imbue the body with life and a second wish must be used to bring back the weapon, or the process above takes place.

Share Knowledge: When a Kreshen in Weapon Form is picked up by another creature, he may transfer some of his knowledge to said creature. The Kreshen can concentrate as a full round to give the wielder some of the Kreshen's abilities. The wielder can, until the Kreshen's next turn, use the following abilities at -2 levels (Minimum Level 1), if applicable. If the Kreshen is dead, this penalty rises to -4 levels.
-Sneak Attack
-Spells (Wielder must have enough of the appropriate mental ability score to cast)
-Weapon-Related Feats
-Weapon Proficiency
-Meta-Magic Feats.
-Fighter Bonus Feats
-Maneuvers
-Favored Enemy
-Anything else the GM thinks should be added.

In the case of spells, or maneuvers for that matter, the -2 levels doesn't affect spells or maneuvers known or prepared. It only affects CL. The wielder can cast any spell the Kreshen has prepared, or that the Kreshen knows, if he's a spontaneous caster.

For example, Bob the 5th Level Kreshen Rogue hands his dagger, while in weapon form, to Fred the Wizard, who is out of spells. Next round, Fred gets a flanking bonus against Bernard the Fighter from Pete the Barbarian, and attacks Bernard. Since Bob is 5th level, Fred gets sneak attack as if he were a 3rd level Rogue, adding 2d6 to his damage.

Magic Aura: A Kreshen detects as magic under Detect Magic or Arcane Sight, with an aura of strong conjuration.

Level Adjustment: +1

Personality
The personality of a Kreshen can be unpredictible. Usually, they hold on to some of the personality traits of their former weapon self. This includes the intelligent item's purpose. While the Kreshen is not bound to this purpose, a Kreshen from a weapon who's mission was to "Slay all Drow," the Kreshen may be anywhere from hateful to simply uncomfortable around Drow.

Physical Description
When formed, a Kreshen bears resemblance to his Weapon Form in many ways. For example, one who is a Black Great Axe with white runes may have black skin with white tattoos or hair, or both. In addition, a Kreshen often takes the general build of his weapon, for example, the Great Axe we mentioned earlier may be big and muscled, where a Long Bow Kreshen may be fairly slim, but tall and agile. Theoretically, a Kreshen can take whatever form the player withes them to be, so long as it's medium sized and humanoid in shape, and the form is OK with the GM.

Relations
Kreshen are usually regarded with a mixture of awe and fear by the other races. There are those who believe them to be flukes of nature, and that they shouldn't have ever existed. However, once one befriends a Kreshen, they usually have a friend for life, as Kreshen tend to be very loyal to those they find friends in. Conversely, if one makes an enemy of a Kreshen, they are usually fairly short lived, if you know what I mean.

Alignment
Kreshen, like intelligent items, can be found from all alignments.

Religion
The Kreshen don't really have a religion of their own, so most of them worship the diety who's favored weapon is their weapon, assuming they are religious.





WIP, constructive criticism welcome.

Neuromancer_18
2014-05-02, 11:48 PM
Ok. So, it looks like you've got a really solid Idea here, a few things you may want to consider though:

1) You should clarify the "Weapon Form" ability. What actual benefit does it provide? As of right now, it's just flavor.

2) Consider changing the bonus to AC from "Innate Sense" from an untyped bonus into a dodge bonus.

3) Final thing, I'm not really sure this is powerful enough to warrant a +2 LA, consider lowering it to +1 LA.

Other than what I've pointed out, It looks pretty good. A little more polish and I think I may want to play one in my next game. =)

Mousedigits
2014-05-03, 01:35 AM
Ok. So, it looks like you've got a really solid Idea here, a few things you may want to consider though:

1) You should clarify the "Weapon Form" ability. What actual benefit does it provide? As of right now, it's just flavor.

2) Consider changing the bonus to AC from "Innate Sense" from an untyped bonus into a dodge bonus.

3) Final thing, I'm not really sure this is powerful enough to warrant a +2 LA, consider lowering it to +1 LA.

Other than what I've pointed out, It looks pretty good. A little more polish and I think I may want to play one in my next game. =)

Thank you for your feedback. I was thinking of what to do about the Weapon Form to make it more than fluff. Any suggestions?
It makes sense for the AC bonus to be a dodge bonus,
Thanks for the LA advice, don't have much experience in this field :smalltongue:

EDIT: Also, any advice on a better name for this race?

Zale
2014-05-03, 04:57 PM
Interesting. Playing as sapient, humanoid weapons is something that tends to come up a lot, so I always like to read the ways people try to implement it.

I really think you should pick a word other than "Artifact" to describe latent Kreshen. Artifact is already well known to mean a particular kind of object in D&D, so using it again can cause some confusion.


Weapon Form: A Kreshen can switch his conscience between his human body and his weapon body. This is a move action. The Kreshen can still move with his body in this form, but he can use no sense but sight, and sees from his weapon. Because of this, a Kreshen cannot see his surroundings while in this form if his weapon body is separated from his human body.

You might mean consciousness, unless they are moving their moral centers into their weapons (Which would be a neat feature for a fallen paladin class, actually.)

This is an interesting feature, since it brings up a few questions about how the race works.

From what I can tell, their weapon form is rather indestructible. I take it that their humanoid body isn't. So, what happens when a Kreshen's humanoid body dies? Can they shift their consciousness into their weapons and linger on, trapped inside? If their weapon forms are somehow destroyed by something like a sphere of annihilation, do their humanoid forms die also, or do they suffer somehow from it?

If they can cheat death by hiding in their weapon form once their humanoid one dies, then are they just a mind trapped inside a sword, unable to contact anyone outside?

You may also want to work on the wording of that paragraph. I think you intend to mean that if the Kreshen's humanoid body moves to far from their weapon body while they are inside it, then they are blind with respect to the humanoid body.

Perhaps something along the lines of: If a Kreshen's humanoid body leaves the line of sight of their weapon body, the Kreshen is treated as blinded for the purposes of manipulating their humanoid body.

Mousedigits
2014-05-03, 05:10 PM
Interesting. Playing as sapient, humanoid weapons is something that tends to come up a lot, so I always like to read the ways people try to implement it.

I really think you should pick a word other than "Artifact" to describe latent Kreshen. Artifact is already well known to mean a particular kind of object in D&D, so using it again can cause some confusion.



You might mean consciousness, unless they are moving their moral centers into their weapons (Which would be a neat feature for a fallen paladin class, actually.)

This is an interesting feature, since it brings up a few questions about how the race works.

From what I can tell, their weapon form is rather indestructible. I take it that their humanoid body isn't. So, what happens when a Kreshen's humanoid body dies? Can they shift their consciousness into their weapons and linger on, trapped inside? If their weapon forms are somehow destroyed by something like a sphere of annihilation, do their humanoid forms die also, or do they suffer somehow from it?

If they can cheat death by hiding in their weapon form once their humanoid one dies, then are they just a mind trapped inside a sword, unable to contact anyone outside?

You may also want to work on the wording of that paragraph. I think you intend to mean that if the Kreshen's humanoid body moves to far from their weapon body while they are inside it, then they are blind with respect to the humanoid body.

Perhaps something along the lines of: If a Kreshen's humanoid body leaves the line of sight of their weapon body, the Kreshen is treated as blinded for the purposes of manipulating their humanoid body.
Thanks for replying :)
Yeah, I probably should change it from artifacts to something else.
Yeah, I did mean consciousness. Made it late at night.
I don't know yet what I should do about when they die, but being trapped in the weapon seems like nice flavor. And, if someone finds said weapon, and casts resurrection on it for some weird reason :smallconfused: they are resurrected.
I'll go ahead and use that wording of the penalty, thanks.

Mousedigits
2014-05-04, 11:48 AM
Changelog: Added an appearance section, changed artifact to intelligent item, updated the weapon form ability, maybe some other things I'm not remembering. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ĺ those of Medium characters.

volkenkurt
2014-05-04, 10:52 PM
that reminds me this http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Telums_(3.5e_Race)

Mousedigits
2014-05-04, 11:16 PM
that reminds me this http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Telums_(3.5e_Race)
I must admit, I was kind of inspired by that race. However, I felt it was sort of underpowered, and decided to make my own. I suppose I should metion it, however.
EDIT: Added some to the weapon form ability.

The Oni
2014-05-04, 11:28 PM
Hah! This is freakin' great! I'm gonna ask my DM if I can use these stats for my Banner of Redemption. He's an intelligent spear with a flag on it that reanimates soldiers that died in disgrace so that they can wield him in battle and reclaim their honor...aaaaaand this is an awesome way to stat that.

If gitp did karma I would give you all of it

volkenkurt
2014-05-04, 11:34 PM
I must admit, I was kind of inspired by that race. However, I felt it was sort of underpowered, and decided to make my own. I suppose I should metion it, however.
EDIT: Added some to the weapon form ability.

its ok i was wondering who to translate that race to pathfinder you have right there are soo underpower

Mousedigits
2014-05-09, 07:02 PM
Changelog: Added some fluff.

Loek
2014-05-10, 05:42 AM
Okay, lets start (as per usual) by cleaning up the layout/looks:
Right under "Playing a Kresken" there is "Kresken" in huge font in the middle of the word "his". Chose one, and remove the font/size change.
The effects of being small is described under both "medium or small" (size) and "speed". Pick one (I'd say size) and remove it from the other.
Under "innate sense" there is a line about how they look, I think you should remove it as it's also included under physical description.


With that out of the way, lets go poke at the race itself.


Firstly, Size. At the moment the race seems very pick and match (two-handed medium creature for the barbarian, while a rogue would pick a small ranged weapon). While not directly a problem, it is sort of like UA's flaws, where players can pick downsides they don't care about to get more power.

My recommendation: Match the size to the weapon type (similarly to the physical abilities), while they can still pick and match, it's at least bound by logic.


Secondly. The weapon form. In the different sections you describe it with different terms, such as: weapon form and weapon body. It is also logical, but never explicitly stated, that it's the weapon he find when he gains consciousness.

My recommendation: Clean up your text, make sure to refer to the same term in all the text. Also, have the "arcane weapon" feature early in the description so that everything has something to refer back to. Also mention in that section that it is in fact the weapon he finds when he gains consciousness.


Thirdly, Ego contests/Dead Kreskens. While an interesting aspect, it is not described in a clear enough manner. Also, the use of his wisdom as his ego score is a bit of. Finally, casting resurrection on his weapon body will bring him back to life... does that grow him a new body? make him regain full consciousness? etc.

My recommendation: Use the existing Ego rules for intelligent weapons to make a more logical/complete way to determine the ego score of the weapon. Have unique outcomes for ego contests, including a permanent domination of his wielder (kill the mind of the wielder), as an alternative form of coming back to life. Finally, be more clear on how the resurrection works (and how conscious the Kresken is in "dead weapon form").


Fourthly, Unbreakable weapon. Especially this sentence has me worried: "In addition, the weapon is not subject to the broken or destroyed condition". Does this means it always survives everything without any scratch? Does it survive stuff that kills gods? Does it survive stuff that destroys greater artifacts? Etc.

My recommendation: Give it boosts to it's saving throws etc, but allow it to be damaged/destroyed. To make it less debilitating to the Kresken when he/it fails a saving throw, give it the material property (can't remember the name - Aurorum?) that can be fixed by pressing the shards together. But at the very least, let heavy duty stuff like "disjunction", "wish" and "sphere of Ultimate Destruction" affect it. (Maybe grant some alternative way for a Kresken to rebuild, reclaim, regain or just get a new one.)


Finally, Level adjustment. I'm not sure if this race is worth only a +1. It's +2 bonus on ability scores is already enough to make it a low +1 race. Add to that a magic (and unbreakable) weapon (that gets better), a form of "immortality" by hiding in the weapon, mix-and-match with size to fit your character, and a number of the benefits of the warforged/living constructs (actually better if more limited, as they still suffer full damage from positive/negative energy).

My recommendation: As much as I don't like high LAs, I think it's worth a +2. To avoid, see some of my other suggestions above, maybe even making the physical bonus (total) be +0.


And as an extra, Fluff.
Relations: When I think born from magic weapons, friendly isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Not necessarily wrong, but fluff it up to explain/justify.
Alignment: What you mean to say is "All", especially when you refer back to the weapon it used to be, while the rest of the class has very little of the features (other than appearance) of the former weapon. If the Kresken also gained some abilities associated with its former weapon life, than this would make more sense.
Religion: Why would they worship intelligent weapons? They (assuming they figured it out) are the evolved form of those weapons. It would make more sense for them to worship gods who have their weapon type as a favored weapon. (even more so if the weapon they came from was a cleric/deity's weapon of choice, before).



Anyhow, I hope this was useful and not to "You did it wrong!".

Mousedigits
2014-05-10, 11:22 PM
Okay, lets start (as per usual) by cleaning up the layout/looks:
Right under "Playing a Kresken" there is "Kresken" in huge font in the middle of the word "his". Chose one, and remove the font/size change.
The effects of being small is described under both "medium or small" (size) and "speed". Pick one (I'd say size) and remove it from the other.
Under "innate sense" there is a line about how they look, I think you should remove it as it's also included under physical description.


With that out of the way, lets go poke at the race itself.


Firstly, Size. At the moment the race seems very pick and match (two-handed medium creature for the barbarian, while a rogue would pick a small ranged weapon). While not directly a problem, it is sort of like UA's flaws, where players can pick downsides they don't care about to get more power.

My recommendation: Match the size to the weapon type (similarly to the physical abilities), while they can still pick and match, it's at least bound by logic.


Secondly. The weapon form. In the different sections you describe it with different terms, such as: weapon form and weapon body. It is also logical, but never explicitly stated, that it's the weapon he find when he gains consciousness.

My recommendation: Clean up your text, make sure to refer to the same term in all the text. Also, have the "arcane weapon" feature early in the description so that everything has something to refer back to. Also mention in that section that it is in fact the weapon he finds when he gains consciousness.


Thirdly, Ego contests/Dead Kreskens. While an interesting aspect, it is not described in a clear enough manner. Also, the use of his wisdom as his ego score is a bit of. Finally, casting resurrection on his weapon body will bring him back to life... does that grow him a new body? make him regain full consciousness? etc.

My recommendation: Use the existing Ego rules for intelligent weapons to make a more logical/complete way to determine the ego score of the weapon. Have unique outcomes for ego contests, including a permanent domination of his wielder (kill the mind of the wielder), as an alternative form of coming back to life. Finally, be more clear on how the resurrection works (and how conscious the Kresken is in "dead weapon form").


Fourthly, Unbreakable weapon. Especially this sentence has me worried: "In addition, the weapon is not subject to the broken or destroyed condition". Does this means it always survives everything without any scratch? Does it survive stuff that kills gods? Does it survive stuff that destroys greater artifacts? Etc.

My recommendation: Give it boosts to it's saving throws etc, but allow it to be damaged/destroyed. To make it less debilitating to the Kresken when he/it fails a saving throw, give it the material property (can't remember the name - Aurorum?) that can be fixed by pressing the shards together. But at the very least, let heavy duty stuff like "disjunction", "wish" and "sphere of Ultimate Destruction" affect it. (Maybe grant some alternative way for a Kresken to rebuild, reclaim, regain or just get a new one.)


Finally, Level adjustment. I'm not sure if this race is worth only a +1. It's +2 bonus on ability scores is already enough to make it a low +1 race. Add to that a magic (and unbreakable) weapon (that gets better), a form of "immortality" by hiding in the weapon, mix-and-match with size to fit your character, and a number of the benefits of the warforged/living constructs (actually better if more limited, as they still suffer full damage from positive/negative energy).

My recommendation: As much as I don't like high LAs, I think it's worth a +2. To avoid, see some of my other suggestions above, maybe even making the physical bonus (total) be +0.


And as an extra, Fluff.
Relations: When I think born from magic weapons, friendly isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Not necessarily wrong, but fluff it up to explain/justify.
Alignment: What you mean to say is "All", especially when you refer back to the weapon it used to be, while the rest of the class has very little of the features (other than appearance) of the former weapon. If the Kresken also gained some abilities associated with its former weapon life, than this would make more sense.
Religion: Why would they worship intelligent weapons? They (assuming they figured it out) are the evolved form of those weapons. It would make more sense for them to worship gods who have their weapon type as a favored weapon. (even more so if the weapon they came from was a cleric/deity's weapon of choice, before).



Anyhow, I hope this was useful and not to "You did it wrong!".
Thank you for the advice. Made some adjustments, eliminated the size thing. As for the fluff stuff, I was kind of half asleep when I typed that. Thank you, everyone, for the feedback. I never knew my first race would be so successful. :smallsmile:

EdroGrimshell
2014-05-10, 11:45 PM
Shouldn't these guys gain proficiency with their weapon form?

Mousedigits
2014-05-11, 12:04 AM
Shouldn't these guys gain proficiency with their weapon form?

*Ahem* "Weapon Proficiency: A Kreshen is automatically proficient with his weapon form."

Qwertystop
2014-05-12, 08:21 PM
Interesting. That's about as far as I can say, though. Certainly one-ups the Soulknife - get a magic weapon as a racial ability rather than a class one, much more reasonable.

Debihuman
2014-05-13, 01:09 PM
You should probably fix some of that wall of text. Smaller paragraphs are a lot easier on the eyes. Also I'm editing some of your text for clarity. Notes are in brackets. You use enchant for enhance in a couple of places, noted in red.

Arcane Weapon: Effectively, a kreshen's weapon form is a masterwork weapon. However, in the hands of the Kreshen himself, it becomes a weapon of extreme destruction. [how is the weapon in his hands exactly if he is in weapon form?]

The weapon, in the hands of the Kreshen, is treated as a +1 weapon. This increases by +1 per 4 hit dice. In addition, he may get his weapon enhanced further. When he adds an enhancement bonus to his weapon, it stacks with those gained through hit dice, to a maximum of +5. This cap is removed upon reaching 21st level. [Level 1 is +1, Level 5 is +2, Level 9 is +3, Level 13 is +4, Level 17 is +5. This contradicts the following paragraph.]

If the Kreshen's weapon is treated as +5 before level 21, he may use his racial bonus to get special abilities to his weapon, such as flaming. [There should be an explanation of which special abilities are available or this can get ugly very quickly. How many can he have?]


He can even do this before reaching +5, but he must have at least a +1 on his weapon. When enhancing his weapon, however, he must pay 1.5 times the cost needed. Any in effect that negates magic, with the exception of disjunction, the weapon keeps the enhancement bonus that it gains from hit dice.

A krenshen's weapon is tougher than normal weapons. It has hit points equal to 15 per hit die of the Kreshen, and additional 10 hit points per enhancement bonus. In addition, it gets hardness equal to 2x the Kreshen's hit dice. Also, against anything that could destroy or take away the weapon's hit dice, such as disjunction, the weapon gains a +1 circumstance bonus per hit die of the Kreshen to the save to negate it.

If the weapon is destroyed, the Kreshen automatically dies. If resurrection is cast on the body, nothing happens. All is not lost, however. The Kreshen is forming a new weapon. The Kreshen stays in this state for 1d4 months, and after that time it wakes up. It retains everything from its previous life EXCEPT for its memories. It remembers nothing of its previous life, similarly to when it first awoke. The only way to truly kill a Kreshen is to kill the body, and subsequently destroy the weapon. After that, they both turn to dust, and the only way to bring back the Kreshen is to spend 2 or 3 wishes/miracles. One to bring back the body, and one to imbue it with life and the third must be expended to bring back the weapon, or the process described above takes place.

Debby

Mousedigits
2014-05-13, 04:32 PM
Thank You! Yes, I agree walls of text can be fairly intimidating.

The Kreshen in weapon form is still in control of his human body, simply sees everything from the weapon or ammunition.

Qwertystop
2014-05-13, 05:08 PM
Two things:
One: Implied-but-not-stated that the Arcane Weapon ability to give special abilities to the weapon subtracts an equivalent value from their +X.
Two: As written, if the weapon is given to someone else, it gets no enhancements (beyond whatever might have been given to it by normal methods). This means there's no real reason to do so beyond having a second pair of eyes (metaphorically speaking) with whoever's carrying it, plus communication outside - and that's not much reason, considering the risk of being stuck separated with one half in unfriendly territory. Possible workaround: allow the Kreshen to enable or disable the weapon abilities when someone else is wielding it.

Character snippet comes to mind: a Kreshen separated from his weapon early on by [local low-level villain's henchman]. The villain now has a magic weapon (no actual magical abilities demonstrated, but it's certainly well-decorated and exceptionally durable so there must be something special about it), and the Kreshen has a reason to join the rest of the PCs.

Another possibility: the Kreshen is in a small town near the capital of the kingdom, and every generation, pulls a Sword in the Stone act - if drawn by the rightful king, the sword glows with holy light (as per my suggested fix).

EDIT: Other questions:

If a Kreshen has levels in a casting class, can they cast spells while in Weapon Form as long as the spells have no components (other than material and focus components that happen to be touching the weapon)? If they have levels in an initiator class, can they use maneuvers while wielded?

Mousedigits
2014-05-13, 05:26 PM
Made those changes.
As for the spells, yes. Heck, I'd even allow spells with somatic components to be cast if the Kreshen has Somatic Weaponry. Or maybe... This calls for some Kreshen feats.
As for maneuvers... I'd have to say no, but GM's decision.

Qwertystop
2014-05-13, 05:50 PM
Made those changes.
As for the spells, yes. Heck, I'd even allow spells with somatic components to be cast if the Kreshen has Somatic Weaponry. Or maybe... This calls for some Kreshen feats.
As for maneuvers... I'd have to say no, but GM's decision.

Wait, so the race that's actually a sword (or axe or spear or bow or whatever) is better-suited to being a spellcaster than someone who knows how to fight?

I wasn't even meaning extra actions - just if you're being wielded, you can telepathically guide them through maneuvers and stances and/or use them on the wielder's behalf if they've got actions left. That preserves the action economy for the person fighting while still keeping the decisions with the weapon. After all, there's already magic items that give maneuver access - if you're wielding a sword that's got the mind of a master of Diamond Mind, why couldn't it guide you through Emerald Razor or whatever?

Mousedigits
2014-05-13, 06:12 PM
Wait, so the race that's actually a sword (or axe or spear or bow or whatever) is better-suited to being a spellcaster than someone who knows how to fight?

:smallconfused: What do you mean by that?

I guess they could possibly give the wielder access to their maneuvers, however I'm not going to add this yet. Let's wait and see what others think of this idea...

LordErebus12
2014-05-13, 06:18 PM
Wait, so the race that's actually a sword (or axe or spear or bow or whatever) is better-suited to being a spellcaster than someone who knows how to fight?

I wasn't even meaning extra actions - just if you're being wielded, you can telepathically guide them through maneuvers and stances and/or use them on the wielder's behalf if they've got actions left. That preserves the action economy for the person fighting while still keeping the decisions with the weapon. After all, there's already magic items that give maneuver access - if you're wielding a sword that's got the mind of a master of Diamond Mind, why couldn't it guide you through Emerald Razor or whatever?

This makes a lot of sense to me. The sword could, say, as a full round action, grant the character wielding them all the knowledge and abilities that the Kreshen possesses until the beginning of the Krenshen's next turn. As long as the weapon remains in contact with the Wielder, that character can utilize any spell, power or maneuver that the Krenshen has, but treats his level as being two levels lower for this purpose.

Therefore, a 5th level krenshen wizard the ability to grant another character the ability to cast any spell they known, but as a 3rd level caster.

Mousedigits
2014-05-13, 06:23 PM
This makes a lot of sense to me. The sword could, say, as a full round action, grant the character wielding them all the knowledge and abilities that the Kreshen possesses until the beginning of the Krenshen's next turn. As long as the weapon remains in contact with the Wielder, that character can utilize any spell, power or maneuver that the Krenshen has, but treats his level as being two levels lower for this purpose.

Therefore, a 5th level krenshen wizard the ability to grant another character the ability to cast any spell they known, but as a 3rd level caster.
I like where this is going :D

Qwertystop
2014-05-13, 06:30 PM
:smallconfused: What do you mean by that?

I guess they could possibly give the wielder access to their maneuvers, however I'm not going to add this yet. Let's wait and see what others think of this idea...

Sorry, got my words twisted up. I meant that it's actually better for them to be a spellcaster than an initiator (even without the general imbalance of the game favoring casting) just because that makes it possible for them to do something while inhabiting their weapon. It actually becomes better to be a thrown-weapon or longbow Kreshen who just uses their projectiles as a place to cast spells from while standing far away - nothing else actually gets use out of the weapon form, because the best you can do with it without spells is be a second Spot check and communicate to whoever's near your body.

If, on the other hand, you could choose to give your martial ability to someone wielding you, that would mean a Kreshen who knows how to fight could actually have an impact while being wielded.

EDIT: Oh, might also want to include BAB, feats, and class abilities that aren't spells/maneuvers/powers - give the Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue and such something to do.

Mousedigits
2014-05-13, 06:37 PM
Sorry, got my words twisted up. I meant that it's actually better for them to be a spellcaster than an initiator (even without the general imbalance of the game favoring casting) just because that makes it possible for them to do something while inhabiting their weapon. It actually becomes better to be a thrown-weapon or longbow Kreshen who just uses their projectiles as a place to cast spells from while standing far away - nothing else actually gets use out of the weapon form, because the best you can do with it without spells is be a second Spot check and communicate to whoever's near your body.

If, on the other hand, you could choose to give your martial ability to someone wielding you, that would mean a Kreshen who knows how to fight could actually have an impact while being wielded

Actually, I kind of like LordErebus12's idea. For as long as the Kreshen concentrates on it, he can impart upon the wielder any spells/maneuvers/whatever. Maybe for a number of rounds per day equal to the Kreshen's hit dice?

LordErebus12
2014-05-13, 07:17 PM
Actually, I kind of like LordErebus12's idea. For as long as the Kreshen concentrates on it, he can impart upon the wielder any spells/maneuvers/whatever. Maybe for a number of rounds per day equal to the Kreshen's hit dice?

Action economy is important, so limiting this ability's usage by -2 CL/ML/IL as long as the Kreshen is concentrating and unable to do anything but grant the abilities, it seems fair.

Suddenly the Goliath (Warblade 5th), now wielding a 7th level Kreshen Wizard (taking the form of a iron bound spellbook) begins using up to 4th level spells as a 5th level caster. Normally only a 7th level caster could use 4th level spells, but since you are removing a character's action from the game, some leniency can be granted. I could see a whole campaign could be based around this idea.


Iron Bound Spellbook
Two-Handed Simple Weapon, Masterwork
Cost: 465 gp
Damage: 1d6
Critical: 20x2
Weight: 5 lbs.

This masterwork spellbook is specially crafted to be able to be used in combat. Its bound with a metal housing that closes shut with an air-tight seal (free action), protecting its 100 pages of parchment from any damage. The locking mechanism comes with an amazing lock, with a DC 40 to Open Lock checks. The iron binding is still subject to rusting spells and effects, unless a material is used that does not rust. You can use any variety of metal or metal-like material to build the outer enclosure instead of iron. Wizards and Archivists are both automatically proficient with the Iron Bound Spellbook.

Qwertystop
2014-05-13, 07:48 PM
Yeah, that seems good. Don't forget granting BAB, proficiency, weapon-related feats (all feats?), and weapon-related (or all?) class abilities (all at -2 levels of course) - that way we can have stuff like a Rogue Dagger-Kreshen handing his knife to the party's Fighter and giving him Sneak Attack, or a Fighter Greataxe-Kreshen handing his axe to the party's Wizard to let him fight when he's out of spells.

LordErebus12
2014-05-13, 07:53 PM
Yeah, that seems good. Don't forget granting BAB, proficiency, weapon-related feats (all feats?), and weapon-related (or all?) class abilities (all at -2 levels of course) - that way we can have stuff like a Rogue Dagger-Kreshen handing his knife to the party's Fighter and giving him Sneak Attack, or a Fighter Greataxe-Kreshen handing his axe to the party's Wizard to let him fight when he's out of spells.

I would not grant BAB, but the rest is fine, I guess

Mousedigits
2014-05-13, 09:09 PM
I'll add the stuff later, when I have time :) This is getting to be better than I ever thought it would be. Do you guys think that this new ability should heighten the LA?

Qwertystop
2014-05-13, 09:40 PM
I'll add the stuff later, when I have time :) This is getting to be better than I ever thought it would be. Do you guys think that this new ability should heighten the LA?

I doubt it - you're sacrificing all your actions (without giving yourself any particular safety boost, which means you're either far away from the combat or at extreme risk) in exchange for giving one ally a weakened version of some (but not all) of what you could do, and they don't get to do both what they can normally do and what you're giving them at the same time, because it sticks to their action economy.

It's useful, yes - but only situationally, mostly on scouting/stealth missions (only one person can get in but this way they have more options and communication with the outside) or for RP purposes (you pretend to be a blind beggar two streets over while your ally is being ridiculously impressive to a potential employer or someone you're trying to scare off).

It's not useful in normal combat unless you're crippled or your normal body is killed, in which case it still requires an ally to give up whatever they're doing, run over to you, pick up your weapon, and proceed to be you-but-weaker - so still not very useful in combat.

Debihuman
2014-05-14, 08:15 AM
Iron Bound Spellbook
Two-Handed Simple Weapon, Masterwork
Cost: 315 gp
Damage: 1d6
Critical: 20x2
Weight: 5 lbs.

This masterwork spellbook is specially crafted to be able to be used in combat. Its bound with a metal housing that closes shut with an air-tight seal (free action), protecting its 100 pages of parchment from any damage. You can use any variety of metal or metal-like material to build the outer enclosure instead of iron. Wizards and Archivists are both automatically proficient with the Iron Bound Spellbook.

I think the cost of this should be a lot higher. The locking mechanism alone would be an amazing lock which comes with a DC 40 to Open Lock checks and costs 150 gp, a standard spellbook (with blank pages) costs 15 gp, and the cost to make a weapon masterwork is 300 gp, for a grand total of 465 gp. The iron binding is still subject to rusting. Making one of these out of other material greatly increases the costs.

Furthermore this should be an Improvised Weapon. Allowing Wizards and Archivists to automatically be proficient with it makes a lot of sense so that should remain. I am not convinced it should be a two-handed weapon, but it may be a matter of strength.

Debby

LordErebus12
2014-05-14, 04:37 PM
I think the cost of this should be a lot higher. The locking mechanism alone would be an amazing lock which comes with a DC 40 to Open Lock checks and costs 150 gp, a standard spellbook (with blank pages) costs 15 gp, and the cost to make a weapon masterwork is 300 gp, for a grand total of 465 gp. The iron binding is still subject to rusting. Making one of these out of other material greatly increases the costs.

Furthermore this should be an Improvised Weapon. Allowing Wizards and Archivists to automatically be proficient with it makes a lot of sense so that should remain. I am not convinced it should be a two-handed weapon, but it may be a matter of strength.

Debby

fair enough. I figured all the masterwork costs could cover the item. I hadn't even concidered a lock on it, merely a seal. no one wants blood on their pages, unless you write in blood. I dont like the idea that its an improvised weapon, though.

Mousedigits
2014-05-14, 04:42 PM
All right, added Share Knowledge. Thinking of making a feat section, along with maybe some Alternate Racial Traits, Spells, Equipment, Etc...

Qwertystop
2014-05-14, 05:29 PM
fair enough. I figured all the masterwork costs could cover the item. I hadn't even concidered a lock on it, merely a seal. no one wants blood on their pages, unless you write in blood. I dont like the idea that its an improvised weapon, though.

Well, one thing you could do is just make it a case with a good latch and a handle. That way you don't need to include the spellbook cost in the cost of the weapon, and the book can be removed or replaced if necessary (such as if it's damaged when you open it, or you run out of pages and make a new book with only the more frequently used spells, or you get a Boccob's Blessed Book).

On Share Knowledge: You should probably explicitly state how the shared spells work - specifically, that (I assume this is how it works) the character can cast spells the Kreshen has prepared/knows (depending on if they're a prepared or spontaneous caster) at -2 CL. Currently, it could be read with the implication that the person holding the weapon gains spellcasting ability but still needs to (for example) prepare spells as a Wizard of the relevant level.

It was said before that spells without somatic, verbal, or material components can still be cast while in weapon form. This is actually directly contradicted by a line in Weapon Form:

A Kreshen who dies is trapped in his weapon form, and has no influence on his surrounding, except as noted below.
This line also runs into issues about the use of "dies" in several places that each refer to specific things that happen, none of which are dying. I would suggest clarifying them - if the weapon is destroyed, the body falls into a coma for 1d4 months, then wakes up with a new weapon and amnesia. If the body is killed, the Kreshen is trapped in weapon form. If the body is dead at the same times as the weapon is destroyed (order should not matter here), the Kreshen dies.

And then just clarify that in weapon form, the Kreshen can only take purely mental actions (the typical phrasing for things that prevent motion, speech, and similar but don't incapacitate the mind). That covers the spellcasting bit, wipes out the possible assumption that the weapon could bend similarly to an Animated Object, and also covers other things like manifesting without having to name each individually.

Innate Sense has an odd second sentence - seems completely irrelevant. For that matter, Innate Sense as an ability is odd - it's a bit too much power for a pure-flavor ability when it is relevant, and yet completely useless most of the time and not particularly significant even when it does show up. This is not good design - makes things harder to balance, since you have to account for power that the race doesn't really need to fill its flavor.

You might be able to bump off an LA if you brought the ability score modifiers down to even.
Light could be +2 Dex, -2 Str
One-handed could be +2 Str, -(unsure) (or just no modifiers, fitting the one-handed-as-a-balance-between-light-and-two-handed idea that's usually the niche people come up with when trying to make onehanders relevant)
Two-handed could be +Con (to avoid just being one-handed-but-better like everything else about twohanders), -Dex
Ranged could be +Dex, -Con

If you did that and dropped Innate Sense, the result is a race with net-zero ability score modifier, the Outsider type (some good things, mostly relating to Alter Self, some bad, mostly relating to being an invalid target for Enlarge Person), a free weapon (good for the martial classes that the Outsider type is bad for, minor for the spellcasting classes that like being an Outsider, so it balances out), a buffer against death (but with severe penalties, since they're either [out of commission for a few months and then get amnesia, so completely unresurrectable since they're not actually dead] or [reduced to being a talking magic sword until normal resurrection comes along]), and the ability to give weaker versions of their abilities to an ally if for some reason they can't just go there and do things themself. Better than LA 0? Yes. Worth LA +2? More arguable.

Mousedigits
2014-05-15, 12:18 AM
Right , to that wall of text above me xD
1. I kinda dropped the whole spell casting while in weapon form thing.
2. The Kreshen CAN take physical actions, just not with the weapon. He can still move his body.
3. The sentence in Innate Sense was something I've been noticing lately: sometimes when I type something on a laptop, it clicks somewhere else and I end up typing there. I went ahead and removed the ability.
4. I think I like the Ability Mods where they are.
Do you think that, with it's current form, it's down to LA 1?

I think that covers most of that post.

Keledrath
2014-08-28, 07:23 AM
I feel it's good for +1 LA. Weaker than feral, in any case.

One formatting suggestion I am giving is move Weapon Form above Living Weapon.

I might also suggest an alternate, "Lesser Kreshen" that is Construct (Living Construct) rather than outsider