Nightmare Skeleton Smoke

[No brains]

If the skeleton template were applied to a nightmare, would it retain or lose its smoke ability? The smoke ability cites its source as the nightmare's snorting and neighing, which are dependent on lungs (i.e. flesh).

[Virdish]

The smoke would be lost

[Muggins]

More specifically, skeletons lose all their Special Attacks and any Special Qualities which do not improve their natural attacks.

[Virdish]

Only thing a Nightmare keeps is it's flight since it is magical

[No brains]

More specifically, skeletons lose all their Special Attacks and any Special Qualities which do not improve their natural attacks.

Good point there. Smoke's a special attack and so is flaming hooves, so skeletonizing a nightmare puts it out. Thanks.

As for the Special Qualities, the qualifier 'improves natural attacks' is pretty vague; enough so that I might want to consider re-naming this thread to address it in detail. What special qualities 'improve natural attacks'? The best example I can think of is DR magic or alignment, as this quality allows natural attacks to bypass the same DR. In the nightmare's case, an argument could be made that the etherealness (Su) 'improves' it's natural attack by allowing it to hit ethereal creatures. Astral Projection is more of a reach.

[Zanos]

Probably stuff like improved grab, constrict, or rends.

[No brains]

Probably stuff like improved grab, constrict, or rends.

All of those are special attacks, which gets weird. So a skeleton loses all special attacks, but retains all special qualities that improve its natural attacks...

I don't even know what "I don't even" macro to use.

[Muggins]

Page 227 of the Monster Manual gives us a couple of examples:
Skeletal Ettins retain their Superior Two-Weapon Fighting trait.
Skeletal Cloud Giants retain their Oversize Weapon trait.
A similar case would be the Enhanced Multiweapon Fighting trait of Darktentacles, from Monster Manual II. Although since they use tentacles (duh) they'd have to be zombies (as skeletons explicitly lose flesh-requiring attacks like tentacles).

[No brains]

This discussion has given me the idea for a new and better thread: Best Skeletons/Zombies for Necromancers. Does such a thing already exist? Does anyone have anything to suggest before I get started?

[Talothorn]

This discussion has given me the idea for a new and better thread: Best Skeletons/Zombies for Necromancers. Does such a thing already exist? Does anyone have anything to suggest before I get started?

start here:
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1049211