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Arakune
2007-02-11, 12:12 PM
I'm making a fighter with the Weapon Focus/Specialization tree for Short sword, and i want to give him the TWF and TWD (the other's are a redundant in my opinion, and I can buy then later).

It's a npc, but I wanted him to be usefull.

His primary weapons are two +2 short swords of wound (that one that make you lose one CON by sucefull attack), his family treasure.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-11, 12:14 PM
Something with a high crit range, like khukris.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-11, 12:19 PM
Short swords? Forget those! Take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting and Exotic: Bastard Sword/Katana. Sure, the extra feat only increases your damage pool by d2 over the longsword, but you have to remember- your whole point to TWF is that you get lots of attacks per round (so the extra damage dice goes a long way) and it looks really cool.

Plus, do you show your players the character sheets for your NPC's? Go ahead and add in a feat or two above their cap just to let them do cool things. The players will never know the difference.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-02-11, 12:39 PM
Can't use Monkey Grip in the offhand, so you'd be using a regular Bastard Sword there. Also, why take another -2 to attack for basically d2 damage?

Anyway, my answer is "anything that has bonus damage dice," like Flaming Shocking Weapons, or anything being wielded by a rogue. Wounding weapons are a good way to go, too, unless there's errata or a rule I don't know about saying the Con damage doesn't stack. The critical suggestion was also good, but suboptimal for an NPC, because he probably won't be "onscreen" enough for those criticals to add up. It's better to go with consistent damage like Elemental or Wounding.

Honestly, TWF is all you need in terms of feats (I'd buy Improved at around BAB 9 or so, but I'd stop there.) TWD isn't terribly optimal, but for a Fighter, you might as well. Note: if you want to suck, you could use the completely legal Animated Shield magic item and free up a feat slot. But Animated Shields always struck me as semi-broken. Divine Power kind of semi-broken.

In summary, to boost your damage, you want:
Elemental Weapon Properties
Rogue Levels
If you want to spend another feat, maybe OTWF and a pair of longswords. Spending two feats for that and EWP: Bastard Sword is only viable for a high-level single-class fighter, in which case you should probably be taking some of the high-end Weapon Spec. feats from PHB2 instead.

Okay, that wasn't a very good summary.

Vazzaroth
2007-02-11, 12:44 PM
Double bladed weapons are under-estimated. They allow you to do the damage of a weapon larger than you can normally use in your off hand, since it's considered light. Also, for an NPC, it's kinda cool for PCs to see something out of the ordinary like that. I don't know if you want to use them, but just don't forget. It took me awhile to realize that they were actually worth the exotic feat to use.

Arakune
2007-02-11, 12:44 PM
i don't have PHB2, where i can see a list of feats and such? ther is in the SRD some references of it?

Thomas
2007-02-11, 01:09 PM
Short swords are a good choice. Any two light weapons are a good idea. You're not going to be using Power Attack, and if you're TWFing, odds are you're a rogue (and should therefore have Weapon Finesse). One-handed weapons are only necessary for (weak) Power Attack. The damage difference between light and one-handed weapons (1 point difference in damage averages) is insignificant, especially compared to the benefit of having each weapon-specific feat apply to both weapons.

Double weapons are a poor choice, because they don't offer any real advantage for most TWF builds, but require blowing a feat on EWP.

As a fighter, you're sort of screwed with TWF, but it can work if no one else is a combat monster and the DM doesn't expect you to be. Wounding weapons are a good way to compensate. Getting to apply the Weapon Spec tree (take it all the way to Weapon Supremacy) is a neat benefit.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-02-11, 01:27 PM
Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=4) is an excerpt of the PHB2 including summaries of the new feats (no technical rules text, though). Melee Weapon Mastery and possibly Slashing Flurry are the ones I was thinking of specifically, thought they're entirely dependent on level. Well, BAB.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-11, 02:23 PM
You don't need monkey grip to dual wield bastard swords/katanas. You need the exotic weapon proficiency.

Monkey grip could still be useful for dual wieldig large-sized bastard swords. Then you're dishing out some pretty heavy damage.

Kantolin
2007-02-11, 02:33 PM
Double weapons are a poor choice, because they don't offer any real advantage for most TWF builds, but require blowing a feat on EWP.

First of all: Really? I suppose you're again getting to the 'spend a feat to raise a die code', but I thought double weapons were in the acceptable category. Plus that way you can utilize single feats to boost it unlike if you went One-Handed/Light, and they do significantly more damage/crit range than two lights.

Secondly: Does this include gnomish or dwarven two-weaponers, who don't have to spend the exotic weapon proficiency?

Thirdly: Pah, double weapons are cool looking. ^_^ Which is why my half-orc wizard uses an orc double axe regardless of mechanics involved (I mean, any time he has to use the thing, something is wrong. And he doesn't two-weapon with it even in those scenarios, as he is a wizard who does not have the feats).

elwood j blues
2007-02-11, 02:39 PM
i know its a long shot that this npc would aquire such a weapon, but blow one EWP feat and take a gythka from the expanded psionics handbook. double wepaon, and each end deals d10 damage, sort of like dual katanas but better.
if you have aload of feats spare though, take a couple of kusari-gama from the DMG(basically spicked chain, but light and deals 1d6), then branch off into whirlwind attack. i had a memebr of my party do that once, killed many undead VERY quickly.
cus of the dex prerequisits to TWF and such, im willing to bet youve got a higher dex than strength. dont worry, weapon finnesse works with these.

Thomas
2007-02-11, 02:42 PM
Monkey grip could still be useful for dual wieldig large-sized bastard swords. Then you're dishing out some pretty heavy damage.

Monkey Grip explicitly doesn't work for your off-hand. So it'd be one Large and one Medium bastard sword.


First of all: Really? I suppose you're again getting to the 'spend a feat to raise a die code', but I thought double weapons were in the acceptable category. Plus that way you can utilize single feats to boost it unlike if you went One-Handed/Light, and they do significantly more damage/crit range than two lights.

Secondly: Does this include gnomish or dwarven two-weaponers, who don't have to spend the exotic weapon proficiency?

Gee, does "spending a feat is a bad idea" apply when you don't have to spend a feat? I think you already figured that one out.

And the damage difference is, like I said, negligible. 1 point. That's not worth a feat. Use two light weapons, like I said in the post you partially quoted. (Not surprisingly, the different sentences were related to each other.) The criticals are the same (x3 or 19-20/x2), and a TWFer probably isn't using Power Attack anyway. (And it'd be silly with a double weapon, since only the one side would get the benefit, but both would get the penalty.)

Kantolin
2007-02-11, 02:48 PM
Alright... that's what I generally figured, just was beginning to get the feeling that double weapons simply weren't worth it period.

Thomas
2007-02-11, 02:57 PM
They really aren't. The advantages are pretty nonexistent. If you get free proficiency in a double weapon, it can be a fair TWF choice; if you don't, it's usually not. (Unless you want to go into Exotic Weapon Master, which does have some useful class features.)

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-11, 03:06 PM
That's where Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting comes in. It lets you treat any weapon in your offhand as light, so long as you can wield it one-handed in the first place.

Arakune
2007-02-11, 03:13 PM
hum... so no power attack? (at least not a very usefull use?).

he is some short of Fallen knight, that wants revenge on his last master.

CN, not a crazy one, but someone that will almost always come up with some weird way to resolve his problens. And is ALWAYS right. No matter how wierd his view point is.

He lost his left eye during a misson and put a magical eye that have dark vision but make him weak, so he almost always have a eye patch in the eye.
He uses a mask that resemble a mask of an Oni, like that guy in the Rurouni Kenshin episode, except for that, he is an all western knight.

can you guy figure out something optimal, deadly and that can fit in this guy? if you guys wants to make it magical, he can spare up two +5 enchantments on both weapons.

Kantolin
2007-02-11, 03:26 PM
One could argue that a double weapon means you can power attack when it's useful, and two-weapon when it's not.

Of course, um. There aren't a lot of situations where it's not (So you'll hardly ever be two-weaponing there), and that's increasing your feat investment. But I guess that's something, at least.

Quietus
2007-02-11, 03:39 PM
Is he going to fight alongside the PC's, or against them? If he's going to fight alongside them, then it's probably a better idea not to make him TOO optimized; You don't want your NPC's becoming cooler than your PC's.

elwood j blues
2007-02-11, 03:44 PM
whats this guys class levels? i could get a better idea from that what he can afford aswell. i would guess form 2 +5 enchantments that he's pretty strong

Central Dogma
2007-02-11, 03:47 PM
I'm a fan of the Dwarven Waraxe. Take TW Fighting, Ambidextarity, and Oversized TW Fighting and you will be hitting for 2d10 plus strength per round and it only takes 4 feats. And then you only take -2 to each.

elwood j blues
2007-02-11, 03:52 PM
erm... you dont need to take Ambidexterity if your playin in v3.5, its been incorperated into TWF

Ninja Chocobo
2007-02-11, 03:58 PM
OTWF, and EWP: Elven Quickblade.
Then get the -Burst enchantments on them.

Zincorium
2007-02-11, 04:01 PM
Eberron, Revenant Blade prestige class. Treat both ends of a double scimitar as a two handed weapon for strength and power attack as it's fifth level cap ability. Everything that the two handed fighting builds are known for doing, you can do twice. Well, almost. And you can fit that and frenzied berserker into a single level 20 build for all the power attacking nonsense you could want.

Person_Man
2007-02-11, 04:09 PM
Due to Power Attack, Two Weapon Fighting is mathmatically inferior to Two Handed Weapons in almost every way. Two Weapon Fighting is also more feat intensive then Two Handed Weapon fighting.

The exception is when you a bonus to damage that has no bearing on Power Attack, such as Sneak Attack damage.


Ambidexterity is no longer a feat in 3.5.


"Hand and a Half" weapons, like the Bastard Sword, usually only add an average of +1.5 damage per successful attack, far less damage then could be addded through other feats.


Gaining a higher crit range, while nice if you can do it with magic, is also mathmatically a poor way to add damage. A standard greatsword will have higher damage over the long run in most cases, since it deals 2-4 more points of damage on every attack, compared to most high crit weapons, which will only deal *2 damage on 10-20% more attacks.


Every feat a melee combatant takes should either scale with levels (Power Attack, any feat that adds an attack) or grant you a special ability you can't gain through magic (Elusive Target, Shock Trooper).

elwood j blues
2007-02-11, 04:19 PM
hmmm... western caharcter... that rules out teh kusarigama...
i myself would fancy going a few levels as fighter, and taking the bonus feats for EWP:gythka, and the TWF feat tree, but that rules out any form of weapon finnesse, which would help greatly.
if your willing to say something like this character spent several years of his life in an exotic area of the western wrold, ortrained in a few years as a monastary, then take EWP: kusari-gama, TWF, weapon-finnesse for your first level feats(if your a fighter), and go on to dodge, mobility, spring-attack, and whirlwind attack afterwards. thats by 4th level if you have the prereqs, and thats two attack against everyone within a 10feet range, dealing d6 each, and with weapon finnesse for your attack bonus, youde be hitting often.
magics... well... keen would be great on both, giving you more chances for a criticle, firey, icy, or shocking are good for damage, and the classic enchantment bonus wopuld let you hit so much more often. i would say +2 enchantment bonus, keen firey-burst on one, and +2 enchantment bonus, keen, icy-burst on the other if for nothing but style.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-11, 04:26 PM
Human Fighter 15 (32 point buy)
Str: 18
Dex: 19
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 10
Feats (in no particular order): Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Proficiency: Bastard Sword, Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Two-Weapon Defense, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword, Greater Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Dual Strike, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Storm of Flying Strikes.
Attack: 19/14/9 for 1d10+4 damage, 19/14/9 for 1d10+2 damage. This is assuming he's wielding two completely normal bastard swords (which he won't be).
Tactics: Begin each battle by charging your enemy with maxed power attack. With Dual Strike, you can attack twice at 14/14 on this charge. If both hit like this, you deal 2d10+16 and have a chance at knocking your enemy prone (DC 16 Fortitude to negate it). A prone enemy is a screwed enemy, especially if you have backup capable of delivering a coup de grace. Continue your next round, assuming you HAVE a next round, attacking everything around you with maxed power attack. You can get that DC up to a 20 if every single attack hits in one round (not likely except against squishy targets or if you've got some good equipment, but hey) or if you increase your strength (much more likely, and it makes the whole build even better anyway). Best of all, you can wear medium armors and actually get relevant benefits off of them.

LotharBot
2007-02-11, 04:36 PM
A prone enemy is a screwed enemy, especially if you have backup capable of delivering a coup de grace.

Being "prone" is not the same as being "helpless".

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-11, 04:52 PM
Huh. So it does.

But still, that's either a full wasted turn or a -4 to attacks and melee AC. I'd say that at least qualifies for "very nasty".

Arakune
2007-02-11, 05:16 PM
nice, but... i don't have these feats, i just have the stardart PHB 1, and the DM's guide, on PDF.

i'm making my own feats and using some of this forum feats, but for him i want to use something... official and from the core books. I mean, i can't affort a $19~$22 a book! (that's a R$64~R$70, too damn expencive!)

he is a pure fighter, tough.

oh, and just asking: TWF (dagger) + Sneak attack = ?
how much damage i whould deal?
Just 1d6 + str + 1d6+ str/2 + sneak attack?

Oh, i almost forgot, he will be someshort of hunter. I want him to take the track feat too, Since he is a lone fighter. He will be sometimes an antagonist (bodyguard of someone that the players must defeat or are in guarding duty for a evil sorceross and only the players know the truth) and a very rare ally ("the dragon are too strong! wer..." KRAAA "what happened?" - 'hey guys, you're really professional adventures?')

elwood j blues
2007-02-11, 05:19 PM
lots. 1d6+any other amount of d6 from your sneak attack per hit i belive
if your looking for phb feats, my suggestion with the kusari gama dont have any non-phb feats... i think. personaly i think its up to you.

The Valiant Turtle
2007-02-11, 05:32 PM
The one thing Double Weapons really do have going for them is that you can choose to use them as a two-handed weapon at anytime. It's a nice bit of flexibility.

the_tick_rules
2007-02-11, 06:30 PM
i'd recommend getting oversized two-weapon fighting and then go with two longswords. or if you wanna spend the extra feat and get freud jokes from everyone you know, get bastard sword proficency and fight with two bastard swords.

Shadow
2007-02-11, 06:40 PM
i don't have PHB2, where i can see a list of feats and such? ther is in the SRD some references of it?

There's a (pretty much) all-encompassing feat listing HERE (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/index.shtml).
That was a link to thier Homepage.
Under the "Forgotten Realms Campaign" link under "Other Places" near the bottom is where you'll find character creation menus and such.
This page has almost every feat available, in detail.

Ted_Stryker
2007-02-11, 06:53 PM
Sun Blades (or an evil equivalent for an evil NPC, maybe "Night Blades") do bastard sword damage but can be wielded as short swords. They are effectively +5 weapons; put on the wounding enchantment and one of the burst enchantments, and that's a couple of solid weapons for the NPC.

Arakune
2007-02-11, 08:27 PM
thanks, i will post the character latter for avaliation.

OzymandiasVolt
2007-02-11, 08:37 PM
Broadblade Shortswords are awesome.

Ramza00
2007-02-11, 08:50 PM
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=781239

PinkysBrain
2007-02-11, 08:56 PM
The type of weapons is really much less relevant than what abilities they have ... without a source of bonus damage you aren't going to be doing really good damage with TWF without bonus damage, and for a fighter that has to come from special abilities.

Wounding weapons, which you already have, are almost the best weapons ... at high level you could also have a couple of Life Drinker greataxes, the only problem is that you will need a small and a tiny one (or 2 small ones if you have the oversized two weapon fighting feat from complete adventurer). If you get a cleric to cast deathward on you you can really go to town with these things, you get high penalties to hit (-4/-6) but your opponent gets 2 negative levels per hit.

Lo-Alrikowki
2007-02-11, 09:13 PM
Hmph. Level 15 fighter is going to have obscene numbers of feats anyway, yes? Why not go for broke, get monkey grip and OTWF and dual wield greatswords? The shock and awe value alone will likely cause a party to soil themselves.

ishi
2007-02-11, 09:21 PM
Hmph. Level 15 fighter is going to have obscene numbers of feats anyway, yes? Why not go for broke, get monkey grip and OTWF and dual wield greatswords? The shock and awe value alone will likely cause a party to soil themselves.

As has been mentioned probably a dozen times on this board, Monkey Grip explicitly does not apply to offhand weapons.

Where's Yuki with that Morbo picture?

Thomas
2007-02-11, 10:26 PM
As has been mentioned probably a dozen times on this board, Monkey Grip explicitly does not apply to offhand weapons.

Where's Yuki with that Morbo picture?

Also, it doesn't let you wield greatswords in one hand. It allows you to wield one Large greatsword, or one Large bastard sword and one regular bastard sword.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-11, 10:37 PM
The latter you just mentioned there sounds AWESOME.

"This is my compensation sword. This is my SUPER COMPENSATION SWORD."

LotharBot
2007-02-12, 02:13 AM
by the time you've got +4 (the value of +2 wounding) of enchantments on your weapons, having the right enchantments matters a lot more than having the right base weapon.

The difference between a d6 and a d10 is an average of 2 points of damage. If you're fighting mostly demons, a holy evil-outsider-bane dagger doing an extra 4d6 damage will seriously outperform an oversized bastard sword with less applicable enchantments.

I suggest thinking very carefully about what you want this NPC doing. Does he have specific enemy types he fights most of the time? If so, give his weapons the bane ability. Does he generally fight things of an opposed alignment? Align his weapons. Is he a rogue with the crippling strike ability? Then the base weapon matters even less (because he gets tons of sneak attack dice) and wounding is a good weapon ability (drain 2 strength and 1 con on a single hit!) Don't be afraid to give him weapons with very specific abilities if he has very specific interests, and don't feel you have to do too many munchkin/powergame things to increase the base weapon damage if those feats would be better spent otherwise.

EDIT: upon rereading, I notice you specifically mentioned him wanting to get revenge on someone. What race/alignment is the guy he's trying to get revenge on? What sort of bodyguards does he expect that individual to have? Just as a random example, if he's going to go fight a lawful evil dwarf with undead guardians, and he's angry enough to be spending money on his weapons, he should have an undead-bane sword and a dwarf-bane sword, but should avoid the "wounding" property since it won't work on undead and dwarves tend to have high CON anyway.

cupkeyk
2007-02-12, 02:57 AM
This thread is funny.

Go halfling with at least 13 STR, maximum Dex and Maximum INT. Be Swashbuckler3/RogueX with shortswords. No I am serious.
1 TWF
3 Martial Study
6 Martial Stance
9 ShadowBlade
12 ITWF
15 Daring Outlaw

With 20 dex and 18 int that's 1d4+10 each. Plus the occassional sneak attack. at +15, +15, +10, +10, +5


I dunno, it's funny how people insist that bigger weapons is not gimping themselves.

Zincorium
2007-02-12, 03:59 AM
This thread is funny.

Go halfling with at least 13 STR, maximum Dex and Maximum INT. Be Swashbuckler3/RogueX with shortswords. No I am serious.
1 TWF
3 Martial Study
6 Martial Stance
9 ShadowBlade
12 ITWF
15 Daring Outlaw

With 20 dex and 18 int that's 1d4+10 each. Plus the occassional sneak attack. at +15, +15, +10, +10, +5


I dunno, it's funny how people insist that bigger weapons is not gimping themselves.

Rogue 3/Swash x is a much better straight combatant with that exact same route, taking daring outlaw as early as possible (say, 6) due to the increased HP and BAB. Not quite as good a skillmonkey, but with a high intelligence you are passable as one. Adding in four fighter levels and daring warrior will make swashbuckler levels better than most prestige classes, plus if you're using two weapons, Weapon Spec is much more useful.

The extra feats from the fighter levels and daring warrior will enable you to take the TWF tree and all the feats that make it useful (two weapon pounce and so on) and still leave feats free for Shadow Blade and it's prerequisites. Granted, you'll need to be human or something similiar to avoid taking xp penalties from multiclassing after 12th level, but that's the breaks.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-12, 04:58 AM
Care to give an example build?

Zincorium
2007-02-12, 05:52 AM
Care to give an example build?

Aye.

The Doubly-Daring Duel wielder.

Some of the parts of this build assume that when Daring warrior or Daring scoundrel is gained, the feats and sneak attack gained are added in when the feat is gained, I'm not aware of any errata stating how it interacts at this time.
FBF: Fighter Bonus Feat
SA: Sneak attack
WF and WS: weapon focus and weapon specialization and upgrades, applied to either short sword or dagger depending on taste

Human

1 Swash 1 TWF, Weapon finesse, Combat reflexes
2 Swash 2 Grace +1
3 Fighter 1 Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique (FBF)
4 Fighter 2 WF
5 Fighter 3
6 Fighter 4 WS (FBF), Daring warrior, ITWF (FBF), Dodge bonus 1
7 Rogue 1 SA 1d6, trapfinding
8 Rogue 2 Evasion
9 Rogue 3 SA 1d6, Daring outlaw
10 Swash 3 SA 2d6, Insightful strike, Dodge bonus 2
11 Swash 4 Marshal Stance: Assassin's stance (FBF), Grace 2, SA 3d6
12 Swash 5 Shadow Blade
13 Swash 6 GTWF (FBF) SA 4d6
14 Swash 7 Acrobatic Charge
15 Swash 8 Dodge bonus 3, TW Pounce (FBF), Improved Flanking, Dodge, SA 5d6
16 Swash 9
17 Swash 10 GWF (FBF), SA 6d6
18 Swash 11 Lucky, mobility
19 Swash 12 GWS (FBF), SA 7d6
20 Swash 13 Dodge bonus 4, grace 3, Acrobatic skill mastery

Combat reflexes, dodge, mobility, greater weapon focus and specialization may not be the best feats, so if you want to suggest a replacement, feel free. Also, I'm sure my calculations will need to be gone over again, just keep in mind the assumption made above unless you can show me where it says that it works differently.

In any case, the build ends with:

-7d6 sneak attack (9d6 in assassin's stance)
-19 BAB
-Effectively 20 levels of swashbuckler for grace and dodge bonus
-17 levels of effective fighter levels for feats
-Intelligence and dex to damage
-The full TWF tree, minus two weapon defense
-1d6+dex+str(full or 1/2)+4 Against enemies not vulnerable to precision damage.

...All without a single prestige class.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-12, 07:09 AM
Where's Yuki with that Morbo picture?

Sorry I'm late!

... It's in my sig now, so just look down there.


...Now, as has already been said, wielding weapons heavier than light is only good if you're planning on using Power Attack. As your to-hit sucks anyway by that point, it's really not a good idea.

The best weapons are those that deal ability damage, or negative levels. Elemental damage is good in a pinch.

Just wield daggers, they're awesome for TWF.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-12, 07:40 AM
Especialy if you port over a few Iron Heroes feats, like Razor Fiend. Yumm.

Roderick_BR
2007-02-12, 07:55 AM
I've been waiting for someone to ask about TWF again. Do you have the Complete Warrior? Check the Samurai. One of the best TWF builds, if not THE best.
You gain TWF, Improved, and Great, as a ranger, without need of having an impossible high Dex, so you can put your points in Strenght.
And the better, you can wear heavy armor, and has a base hit die of d10. The exacly things that a ranger is weak.
And finally, the "Kiai shout", that is effectively a Smite Evil ability, but not limited to evil beings.
His has a few restrictions:
Must be of Lawful aligment (dont even need to be Lawful Good).
The loyalt for a master thing.
And the TWF is limited to two weapons. Katana (Bastard sword) And Wakizaki (Short sword), that are what 90% of TWFers always use.
If it's an NPC, you could use him to test this class.

Rigeld2
2007-02-12, 07:56 AM
Except... the CW Samurai sucks. You might as well be a normal Fighter.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-12, 08:27 AM
I think he was being sarcastic.

Arakune
2007-02-12, 03:52 PM
tanks guys. I really apreciate your opinions. anyone know a good prestige class for him?

and I don't want to make his weapons too much overpowered, the short swords he are using are a family treasure with hundreds of years. unless you can "upgrade" the weapons.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-12, 03:57 PM
I dunno, that was awfully complex for being sarcastic. So lemme help correct this.

The samurai isn't any better at doing this then a fighter because, even though you freed up a little dexterity, you'd still need that very dexterity to qualify for the other feats that make TWF even a viable option. You basically just described a mathematically inferior THW fighter that has bizarre restrictions and no real customization possibilities.

Josh Inno
2007-02-12, 04:16 PM
Out of curiosity... if you're going two handed weapon build, AND you want him to be able to track (which requires the survival skill to do well) why not make him a fighter/ranger multiclass?

Roderick_BR
2007-02-12, 04:46 PM
Umm... No, I was not. O_o I really liked that class. Yes, you still need inhuman dex to have TWDefense, but you are still better than a fighter of ranger following the RAW. I just liked that class a lot. I will see if one of my friends will let me play one next time I play.

Quietus
2007-02-12, 04:56 PM
Prestige classes - I think someone mentioned Tempest, which I can't remember exactly what that does, OTOH. Dervish is always fun, movement + full attack + extra attack/damage is never a bad thing. Plus you could use scimitars for the 1d6, 18-20x2, and have them count as light. Always sweet.

Ultimately it comes down to what kind of feel you're going for with this NPC. If you're looking for something hard and gritty, a Dervish won't work.

Hyrael
2007-02-12, 05:46 PM
I've always been a fan of Battleaxe/handaxe

Draz74
2007-02-12, 06:05 PM
Rogue 3/Swash x is a much better straight combatant with that exact same route, taking daring outlaw as early as possible (say, 6) due to the increased HP and BAB. Not quite as good a skillmonkey, but with a high intelligence you are passable as one. Adding in four fighter levels and daring warrior will make swashbuckler levels better than most prestige classes, plus if you're using two weapons, Weapon Spec is much more useful.

The extra feats from the fighter levels and daring warrior will enable you to take the TWF tree and all the feats that make it useful (two weapon pounce and so on) and still leave feats free for Shadow Blade and it's prerequisites. Granted, you'll need to be human or something similiar to avoid taking xp penalties from multiclassing after 12th level, but that's the breaks.

Zincorium -- you know Daring Warrior doesn't give you bonus feats as a fighter, right? It just lets your qualify for Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Weapon Supremacy, etc., as a Swashbuckler.

cupkeyk
2007-02-12, 06:16 PM
Daring Warrior sort of suxxorz yes, the build is better off with just rog/swash

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-02-12, 06:25 PM
With my Fighter/rogue TWF; I went with the Dwarven Waraxe/Shortsword style. Steady damage output, and the shortsword was one of those Rogue blades that do extra damage on a sneak attack. T'was nice with the High Sword/Low Axe feat.

greenknight
2007-02-12, 07:18 PM
he is a pure fighter, tough.

Oh, i almost forgot, he will be someshort of hunter. I want him to take the track feat too, Since he is a lone fighter. He will be sometimes an antagonist (bodyguard of someone that the players must defeat or are in guarding duty for a evil sorceross and only the players know the truth)

With TWF, tracking and the bodyguard requirements, it seems to me like you're really describing a Ranger (in 3e they can have any alignment, so CN is fine), like Josh Inno suggested. Rangers can get TWF as free feats (they don't even need to meet the Dex requirement), they have tracking as a bonus feat and Survival as a class skill, and Heal, Spot and Listen are very useful for a bodyguard (not to mention that at higher levels, Rangers get healing spells, along with a few other spells which can be useful in a bodyguard role). From a RP perspective, Ranger also suits the loner/hunter archetype pretty well. If you want to address the "Fallen Knight" aspect of the character, give him 4 levels of Fighter - which would allow your character to have Weapon Specialization.

As for weapons, there's two ways you can go. A pair of Short Swords with the Vorpal ability can be quite deadly since with the increased number of attacks per round you also get a better chance of rolling a natural 20 in the round. Otherwise, a couple of Kukris with Merciful, Shocking Burst and Flaming Burst/Icy burst on them can make good use of your critical hit potential.

Zincorium
2007-02-12, 08:00 PM
Zincorium -- you know Daring Warrior doesn't give you bonus feats as a fighter, right? It just lets your qualify for Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Weapon Supremacy, etc., as a Swashbuckler.

Ah, dangit

Oh well, Most of the fighter bonus feats weren't neccessary anyway. Just replace all four fighter levels with swashbuckler and enjoy the extra 2d6 sneak attack.