View Full Version : 3.5 Integrating point buy. Kind guidance would be appreciated, ever so much.

2014-05-04, 08:34 PM
Starting with the point.
If a player could buy a feat with experience, how much would it cost? What about an ability score upgrade? A certain class feature?

In order to make character building more fluid, I've been attempting to answer such questions. I have recently developed a fairly convoluted formula to convert XP to GP or vice versa at any level, based on the experience required to level up, and the WBL table.

Edit: Nope, it's not a valid formula.
It's pretty ugly, but I love it anyway.

Edit: problems. Based on xp required to level, not total xp. Xp over 20 levels does not necessarily equal gp over 20 levels, and probably doesn't.

I would need to make a new value, replacing ECL, that reflects your total xp and gp, since they can both reflect your power with this system.

Another approach would be making a formula to adjust item costs, and adjusting gold rewards, so that we don't need variable powers to make a conversion.

The idea is to make a point buy possible in 3.5 (or 3.P and ect.) while staying balanced among class built characters.

I can't mathematically determine a conversion rate from xp to feats or class features though, so I'm requesting help.

2014-05-04, 10:54 PM
Well, your new statistic point would be the sum of experience required to attain your level, plus the amount of gold expected of a character your level. Or, in simpler terms, "Gold + Experience"
Now, you've figured out a conversion formula for the two, so you can replace Gold with the formula to get a new formula with only one variable.

Points = Gold + Experience
Gold = (1.24Level)(Experience)(0.65)
Points = Experience + (1.24Level)(Experience)(0.65)
Points = Experience * [1 + 0.65 * (1.24Level)]

Now we break out the fancy new tables (and my GF's TI-83):

Modification Points

Roughly 100




















I could continue, but the number of points we're dealing with is already absurd. Was my math off somewhere?

2014-05-04, 11:34 PM
While looking for the problem in the formula, I found a bunch of other problems, which make this whole point moot.

First, my entire premise was flawed, as it assumed that the power granted by gp was equal to the power granted by xp, over the course of 20 levels, which is not necessarily the case.
Also, in my formula, I treated wealth as being cumulative (as it is in WBL) but only compared it to the experience required to level up, which made my all my later efforts a waste of time.

Xp to Gp will likely be another fun-math-free job in which I hope for the playground's wisdom.

On the bright side, seeing as I didn't account for experience being cumulative, we might not have a variable power in the new conversion.

2014-05-05, 04:40 PM
Sorry, I'm just going to stop you right here - there's already a really darn good point-buy 3.5 out there, called Eclipse: the Codex Persona. It's free-form, but the basic classes are worked out in the book & the guy's website does most of the other ones as well as examples.

I get it - people love coming up with a point-buy XP edition of 3.5; trouble is, the thing's just too unbalanced to do that, thanks to how class features and stuff are assigned. So, before you carry on, look into it. If you don't like it, then by all means carry on! Who knows, you might do even better.

2014-05-05, 07:40 PM
I don't mind you stopping me, I was only trying to make the system since I didn't think one existed.
Everything I've read looks good so far.
Do you know how well it balances next to normal 3.5 classes?

2014-05-05, 09:24 PM
Well, I think that normal classes kind of break it, not because there's anything wrong with your system, but because they're so broken. 10,000 XP of Wizard is worth a lot more than 10,000 XP of Fighter. It's like the difference between buying a Belt of Giant's Strength and 16 tons of caltrops. I'm not sure what you can do about it... maybe the system will shine in games where classes are more limited by tier?

2014-05-05, 11:19 PM
Starting with the point.
If a player could buy a feat with experience, how much would it cost? What about an ability score upgrade? A certain class feature?

Ability score upgrades are fairly simple: just extend the usual starting point buy table with the same progression (+1 cost/2 points). Feat costs are only really workable in something like E6, where you get feats every 5000 or so XP after capping your level. Beyond that, it's probably not really workable at all without rewriting essentially the whole game.