Slight Gish and Semi-Gish Sorcerer Builds

[Pyromancer999]

So, I was looking around at classes, and came up with these two sorcerer builds. I know they're not the most optimal, but I find them interesting. I also realize they're not the most comprehensive builds because they aren't fleshed out entirely, but assume all else is up to the player using the build.

Slight Gish: Stalwart Sorcerer 10/Abjurant Champion 5/ Stalwart Sorcerer 5

CL-20
BAB +12
Aside from Combat Casting, you need nothing, seeing as Stalwart Sorcerer gives you weapon proficiency and Weapon Focus with a single martial weapon. It's not really gish-y, but can be the slightest bit of one with little optimization, and is better than Sorcerer 20 for the most part. The lost spell can be made up for by being Dragonblooded, and grabbing the 7th level Dragonblooded Sorcerer substitution level, which nets you four spells for free, none of which are too shabby.


Cool sorcerer semi-gish build:

Sorcerer 10/Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch Knight 3

Needs before 10th:
Feats needed: Martial Study(Desert Wind)(for Tumble), Desert Wind Dodge(Counts as Dodge), Iron Will, Combat Casting(although can wait till 12th)

Skills needed: Knowledge(Arcana) 6 ranks, Tumble 2 ranks

Nets you:
9th level spells by 19th
HD: 10d4+1d8+6d10+3d6(25+4.5+33+10.5 = 63 HP on average before Consititution modifier)
BAB +15
CL 19
Base saves: +11/+9/+16(+18)(Fortitude/Reflex/Will(Base Will with Iron Will bonus included))
Fearless(immune to fear, +4 to saves against fear for allies within 30 ft)
+1 to damage against dragons
10% arcane spell failure reduction
Abjurant Champion dope bonuses
1 fighter bonus feat as a bonus feat

I know it's not a true gish, as it doesn't have much room for the feats it needs to be more optimal in combat unless you do flaws, but an interesting build to me nevertheless. If you want to get 9th level spells by 18th, you could substitute Sorcerer 10 with Wizard 10, which can be more optimal for a true gish by also either netting you 3 Metamagic feats or if going Martial Wizard for 3 fighter bonus feats, and then just using those for Martial Study(Desert Wind) and Desert Wind Dodge, but I personally just prefer doing sorcerer, so went with that for the build.

So, what do people think of these two builds?

[TheMooch]

It's hard for me to gauge how builds are without acceptable knowing cheese levels

White dragon spawn loredrake venerable kobold sorceror/crusader/JPM/abj Champ is a way better gish but does that fit into your campaign?
what about wizard/master specialist/swiftblade/abj champ

It looks like you are enjoying the abj champ in your builds and I usually use it to be a filler for when nothing else matters, other fun things to look at are:

classes:
duskblade
swiftblade
runesmith

feats:
arcane strike

[Pyromancer999]

It's hard for me to gauge how builds are without acceptable knowing cheese levels

White dragon spawn loredrake venerable kobold sorceror/crusader/JPM/abj Champ is a way better gish but does that fit into your campaign?
what about wizard/master specialist/swiftblade/abj champ

It looks like you are enjoying the abj champ in your builds and I usually use it to be a filler for when nothing else matters, other fun things to look at are:

classes:
duskblade
swiftblade
runesmith

feats:
arcane strike

These can be as cheesy as you should like them to be. They're kind of meant to be general builds you can tweak to suit your needs. As they are, they're not terribly cheesy, even the second including my favorite way to qualify for Spellsword, but can easily be filled in with stuff or modified to your cheese needs. They're not necessarily terribly OP or cheesy, nor the best around,but seemed like fun optimization-light builds to use, and thought I'd share them on here and see what people thought.