OOTS #951 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[zimmerwald1915]

Now, now, Roy, they appreciate a good pull!

[Hogwarts9876]

In/flammable jokes are always great. :smallbiggrin:

[Agnostik]

:roy: I'm participating...

[Don Ohnic]

Roy, the casual sailor!

[The Guardian]

I do love the demonstration of the difference in Strength scores...

[zimmerwald1915]

Another amusing tidbit: Bandana knows better than to rely on Belkar for anything.

[dtilque]

The ship's going down because the engines have failed, just like the Enterprise. Does this mean we're in for Star Trek jokes?

You'd think Roy would need two hands to hold the rope. Does that Belt of Giant's Strength make a single one of his arms equal to two normal people?

[Trixie]

Is the Belkar quote a reference to anything? :smallconfused:

[Nenec]

Between the first posters!
Poor Roy, the gag with Belkar is hilarious :smallbiggrin:
Elan is back to partecipating....but now we have more reasonable people leading the operations for once.

[zimmerwald1915]

Is the Belkar quote a reference to anything? :smallconfused:
Only Roy's own melodrama back in the Dungeon of Dorukan.

[Boogastreehouse]

*

Hmmm...

Crew-member unexpectedly going below deck to clear everyone out of the hold, eh?

Seems like an easy task... What could go wrong?

*

[Dracon1us]

LOL

I'm really digging Bandana...strikes me as a mini Haley :smallsmile:

[Dracon1us]

The ship's going down because the engines have failed, just like the Enterprise. Does this mean we're in for Star Trek jokes?

You'd think Roy would need two hands to hold the rope. Does that Belt of Giant's Strength make a single one of his arms equal to two normal people?

He's strong enough to keep with one hand..."PC MAGIC" :LOL:

[gorocz]

You'd think Roy would need two hands to hold the rope. Does that Belt of Giant's Strength make a single one of his arms equal to two normal people?
Yes, that's actually the joke... But seriously, his STR is like at the very least 22, up to around 28. Average person's STR would be like 10...

[dtilque]

*

Hmmm...

Crew-member unexpectedly going below deck to clear everyone out of the hold, eh?

Seems like an easy task... What could go wrong?

*

ooh, cue the ominous music...


Just noticed a detail Roy's sword acquired in the art upgrade: there's a row of three X's on the hilt. No doubt meant to be a leather thong wrapped around it to improve the grip.

[Balain]

?....
You'd think Roy would need two hands to hold the rope. Does that Belt of Giant's Strength make a single one of his arms equal to two normal people?

If my recollection is correct it indeed could. The maximum str a human can have is 18 to start. Chances are being sailors their strength scores are much closer to the average. Roy I believe has at least 18. Maybe as high as 20 depending what he started with and how points were added as he levelled. A belt of giant strength can add anywhere from +4 to +10. Giving Roy somewhere between 24 to 30 strength as a guess.

There were two sailors and aiding some one only adds a few points so let's say the strongest sailor has a strength around 16 with one person aiding giving atotal of about 18.

Roy could easily hold the rope two sailors were struggling with.

[Aurorax]

Roy channelling Elan and staying out of the way!

[Morty]

Poor Roy, always haunted by the decision of some nincompoops ten years ago that full attack bonus and bonus feats are enough to make a class.

[ratfox]

Love Belkar lampshading the real-world absurdity of the rules. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Raziere]

Vaarsuvius: saves the ship by only using a single spell

Elan: saves a mans life with his puppet

Roy: has to stand around holding a rope.

Roy has officially become less useful than Elan. thats gotta sting.

[BaronOfHell]

Funny how easy it looks for Roy. I liked that, though I'd have thought it was more the weight of the 2 sailors than their strength which held the rope in place, while Roy doesn't even feel any force, despite I doubt he weights as much as 2 people. :smalltongue:

[ChaosArchon]

Wait did Roy accidently pull the mast out? or did that happen before, I know B told him not to pull... I dunno I'm super tired right now but wanted to say I loved the whole joke poking fun at the ridiculous stats of PCs at this point :P

[madock345]

I love how casually he's holding the rope after we saw two guys barely holding it a few panels before. Sometimes I forget how crazy strong D&D protagonists actually are.

[Vladier]

In V's place, I'd really think about what to watch closely - something inflammable or non-flammable - just in case the Directors decide that positive combustibility of that particular part of the ship should be exploited to suit their plans. On the other hand, though, such paranoia might not be the best of ideas.

[Starwulf]

Great comic as always. Love Roys idea of dancing a Jig! It just goes perfectly inside my head :)

[Darkfyre99]

I particularly like how Roy's just casually standing there, loosely holding a line that two people were struggling with just moments ago. It really demonstrates how strong he really is.

Not to mention it made me giggle. :)

[Edric O]

Hehe. "Inflammable." :)

Also, is it just me or does it seem like we're having a few strips dedicated to re-establishing basic facts about the characters? Maybe for new readers?

[teratorn]

Nice! Roy dancing skills are probably not that good but it'll be cathartic.

[Khay]

I had to look up the word "wharf", but it was well worth it. I love how casually Roy is holding the rope.

Great comic as always. The new art style allows for some seriously impressive graphics.

[CRtwenty]

Just gotta say this strip really shows just how monstrous Roy's strength score is in comparison to normal people. Two people could barely hold onto that rope while he holds it one handedly with no issues.

[CrispyCriminal]

I bet they'd name the dance 'Jig of the Watery Grave' or something. And instead of it being mournful it's more festive...what? Chaotic composers don't care for actual thematic composition.

[Emperordaniel]

Give into your feelings, young Greenhilt. Strike Belkar down with all of your hatred, and your passage towards the dark side will be complete! :smallamused:

[Adeptus]

Hmm, that felt like a discontinuity. V is seen heading below deck at the end of the last one, but now V seems to be sticking with Haley in the immediate aftermath.

[Ghost Nappa]

I believe that it has been agreed upon that Roy's casual Rope holding skills is truly the highlight of this comedy special.

[BaronOfHell]

Hmm, that felt like a discontinuity. V is seen heading below deck at the end of the last one, but now V seems to be sticking with Haley in the immediate aftermath.

No, to go below deck requires a ladder. V merely went back to the level where Haley was on.

[Roland Itiative]

I love how Bandana is wise enough to not really put any responsibility on Belkar's shoulder.

[ooOoo]

The ship's going down because the engines have failed, just like the Enterprise. Does this mean we're in for Star Trek jokes?


:belkar: I think this whole "fighter" thing has really gotten in the way of you discovering your true destiny as a Worf.

...

:smalleek:

sorry :smallbiggrin:

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[ChowGuy]

Funny how easy it looks for Roy. I liked that, though I'd have thought it was more the weight of the 2 sailors than their strength which held the rope in place, while Roy doesn't even feel any force, despite I doubt he weights as much as 2 people. :smalltongue:

Quite so. Another fine example of Cartoon Physics (I'm sure there's a trope you-know-where but...). In RL, one cannot exert more downward force then his own weight no matter what his "strength" is. Of course Roy can probably pull himself up with one hand quite easily, so there's that, but I expect tho two deckhands could as well.

The main thing they're doing that Roy isn't is resisting the lateral pull, but that's more a matter of balance and friction against the deck then strength.

[Keltest]

Quite so. Another fine example of Cartoon Physics (I'm sure there's a trope you-know-where but...). In RL, one cannot exert more downward force then his own weight no matter what his "strength" is. Of course Roy can probably pull himself up with one hand quite easily, so there's that, but I expect tho two deckhands could as well.

The main thing they're doing that Roy isn't is resisting the lateral pull, but that's more a matter of balance and friction against the deck then strength.

ah, but he isn't pulling the rope straight down, theres some horizontal force as well. And even then, muscle is dense and armor is heavy. Roy could in fact weigh twice as much as the two poor sailors.

[snowblizz]

Ah, humorous strips, how I have missed thee.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Hey now, he also has cross-class skill ranks in knowledge (architecture and engineering)!

[ChowGuy]

ah, but he isn't pulling the rope straight down, theres some horizontal force as well.
Hence the point about lateral force.

And even then, muscle is dense and armor is heavy. Roy could in fact weigh twice as much as the two poor sailors.
Which again has nothing to do with his "giant strength" stat.

[kivzirrum]

Oh man, this is a great reminder of one of the reasons why Roy is my favorite character. The way he deadpans "I'm going to dance on your grave"... dang, man, that's harsh (and hilarious). His dry wit and snide remarks never fail to make me laugh. I especially like the way he and Belkar play off each other.

[Keltest]

Hence the point about lateral force.

Which again has nothing to do with his "giant strength" stat.

grip strength. That's how hes holding the rope with one hand.

[Anarion]

It's so nice to see that the time Roy and Belkar spent alone with each other in the gladiatorial arena really created a special bond between them.

[LasVegasLawyer]

No, to go below deck requires a ladder. V merely went back to the level where Haley was on.

Pretty much this. The fire is on the control panel located on the poop deck, which is accessed by a stairwell that can be seen in the first panel of 949 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0949.html). The hatch, which leads below-decks, is on the main deck.

[LasVegasLawyer]

*

Hmmm...

Crew-member unexpectedly going below deck to clear everyone out of the hold, eh?

Seems like an easy task... What could go wrong?

*

Probably not much, seeing as Durkula already left the hold and is standing on the deck (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html).

[DaggerPen]

Oh, Belkar. Never change.

While I mostly dig the new art style, arm bending here looks weird. Like where Bandana is holding Roy's arm? It makes me acutely aware of the lack of elbows. Not a huge deal, though.

[Ninja_Grand]

I do love the demonstration of the difference in Strength scores...

Best part is that Roy dose not even know how strong he is compared to the rest of the world (NPCs). Whats was his WIS? 12?


Still, keep it up Giant, love the whole thing, as always.

[Peelee]

They're gonna need a bigger boat!

[Gift Jeraff]

Now we know that Roy is going to be the saddest about Belkar's death.

[jidasfire]

It's interesting to me how this current set of strips seems to be a "meet the cast" series after a fashion. It's obviously not ignoring what's come before, but so far we've seen how each of the main heroes reacts to the crisis or what they can individually do to help. It feels a little weird in a continuity-heavy series like OOTS, but at the same time it's not acting like we've never seen the characters before. Perhaps it's just a humorous refresher and palate-cleanser after the last very long and complex arc before we start what will likely be yet another long and complex arc. I'm not complaining, mind you, just an observation.

[HandofShadows]

Ah, this was a great page. It shows so much of the cast and how they have changed over time. Not just Roy, but V and everyone else. :smallcool: I wonder how long Roy has to get those dance leasons in? :smallconfused:

[Trurl]

Probably not much, seeing as Durkula already left the hold and is standing on the deck (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html).
They may stumble over Bloodfeast etc, and V's scroll may get lost/damaged/read.

[ScrapperTBP]

Looks like someone might discover Durkon downstairs. Or did he come back up?

[Doug Lampert]

About Roy's strength.

He probably started with 18, he adds 3 for levels, he adds 6 for the belt, thus Roy has 27 strength, and the scale is exponential for scores higher than 10 or so.

27 strength gives a light load of 346 lb. or less. At 346 pounds of stuff carried Roy doesn't notice the weight any more than you notice your car keys, carrying that much has no more game effect than his clothing. So for those wondering how come Roy isn't pulled off the deck, he's got 345lb of crap in his pockets because he forgot to empty them this morning and hasn't noticed the trivial added weight.

Normal people have all their loads at less than a tenth of Roy's value. In terms of grip, lifting capability, ext... he has the strength of 10-12 normal people.

Note that Roy is in medium or heavy armor, if he's in medium armor then he can carry 693lb of stuff without it slowing him down, if he's in heavy armor then the load is 1,040lb. Note: these numbers are NOT what he can lift (that's much higher), they are the amounts he can carry without being slowed down any more than the 30-50lb of armor already slows him down.

Roy can walk around ALL DAY with the world's record weight lifter on his shoulders, PLUS the full weight that world record setter lifted, PLUS all the gear we can see him carrying, and it doesn't slow him down any more than heavy armor would.

[Socksy]

Poor V, stuck with Bandana's crew and their terrible grammar skills.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

ROFLMAO ... excellent, thanks.

I would advice line dance ... :smallsmile:

[Ravens_cry]

I didn't notice it till this strip, but now the limbs have colour inside. By my extensive research, this started just after the strip with Hel. Your art, Giant, but it looks rather peculiar sometimes. It also technically means it's not a stick figure comic any more.:smalltongue:

[Mollez]

*

Hmmm...

Crew-member unexpectedly going below deck to clear everyone out of the hold, eh?

Seems like an easy task... What could go wrong?

Oh, geez. Didn't even think of that. :smalleek:

[Smolder]

A joke? About D&D stats? *sniff* This made my day.

[Burner28]

Oh, geez. Didn't even think of that. :smalleek:


Dun dun dun!!!!

As for the strip, I loved the last two panels.

[Kareasint]

Somewhere in the clouds, a deva (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html) is grinding her teeth.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Roy should be happy to help save lives. Why is he so unhappy?

[Tiiba]

I don't know what Durkon is doing, but he was on deck in #948.

[elros]

The strip is probably setting us up that:
1) Roy is MUCH stronger than anyone else on board (including the Order),
2) something bad is going to happen to the person going below the deck,
3) the airship going to go down prematurely. My guess is it will land in Durkon's hometown, therefore fulfilling the prophesy and setting up his part of the narrative. I imagine the clerics there will have enough ranks in Knowledge (religion) to understand what is really going on with vampire Durkon.

[cybishop]

I imagine the clerics there will have enough ranks in Knowledge (religion) to understand what is really going on with vampire Durkon.

That's unlikely (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339912-Vampire-question-settled/page8&p=17327934#post17327934).


Likewise, any assumptions that characters in the comic know or understand the details of how this process occurs on a detailed internal level should be thrown out the window. They don't. Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.
I repeat my earlier theory - no one will get suspicious of Durkon until his mission for Hel starts to interfere with the Order's mission, whether that takes hours or weeks. I'll be more specific and say that the latter is more likely.

[BowStreetRunner]

While reading this strip, I actually had to pause after the sailor said "And clear the hold, I want everyone above decks." It reminded me so much of the recent ferry disaster in South Korea and how the captain left everyone below deck while he himself abandoned ship. It makes me wonder if R.B. was thinking about this when he wrote the dialog, or if it is just coincidental. In any event, kudos to the captain for doing the right thing in that panel.

[rman]

Roy has the strength but not the weight. Really tieing it off would hold the line in place better than Roy. Roy might just end up flying in the wind holding onto the line as he gets pulled off the deck.

Roy would have to grab the railing. Then he would be just as well off as tieing the line to the railing.

[littlebum2002]

I should have known better.

I read the comic, and was prepared to come on here and ask how Roy could be stronger than the deck he's standing on, only to find out its been asked about a dozen times already.

It would be funny if V could point this out, and Roy goes flying off the ship.

[Raphite1]

Because of the new arm-style, Roy with his tight sleeves looks way skinnier than the two people holding the rope before him, who are supposed to be way weaker than him, :smallfrown:

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I imagine the clerics there will have enough ranks in Knowledge (religion) to understand what is really going on with vampire Durkon.

A lot of people have been shooting that down, but I agree. At least one cleric ought to have enough ranks in Perception and/or Knowledge to eventually recognize that he's a vampire after seeing him for several days.

Obviously, Durkula will kill those clerics first.

[pendell]

Love Roy's new look! He is now obviously wearing heavy armor and the hilt of his sword seems quite detailed, and draws the eye. I realize it was always a green hilt, but it is far more obviously so now.

Question: Are those spikes on the back of his boots, or some kind of special reinforcement in the heel?

Haley now appears to be wearing a cotton shirt under leather armor. Still can't quite tell if she's wearing breeches or shorts, but it's more obviously a practical outfit now, not a chicks & chainmail special designed more to appeal to fanboys than to provide real protection.

The elvish runes on Vaarsuvius -- cloak? Cape? -- are also a nice touch and well done.

Only Belkar seems unchanged, I think he's wearing a gold brooch and a cape now, which I don't think he was before, but his new look is far more subdued than those of his colleagues.

Question: Is it the Giant's intent to upgrade the art in each new book? Because there's definitely been a series of steps up over the course of the comic. Do these upgrades happen on a fixed schedule, or does the Giant do it on an as-needed basis, "by eye"?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ivrytwr]

I am really loving the whole one-handed Roy hold is equivalent to two air-sailors struggling valiantly. 'course this is the guy who survived being impaled by a triceratops!
Inflammable/flammable jokes!
Plus Roy planning his post-Belkar celebrations!

Thanks Giant!

[Rorrik]

"You let me father's skiff drift out with the tide! I will avenge it!"

Bwahaha! That is a classic. I'm going to be quoting that for a while. Now I remember why Belkar is my favorite character.

Next strip is definitely going to feature Durkon being less than helpful below decks.

[Seward]

Quite so. Another fine example of Cartoon Physics (I'm sure there's a trope you-know-where but...). In RL, one cannot exert more downward force then his own weight no matter what his "strength" is.
...
The main thing they're doing that Roy isn't is resisting the lateral pull, but that's more a matter of balance and friction against the deck then strength.

You've forgotten the other D&D physics thing....Roy probably weighs more than both of those sailors.

He's a high strength fighter, high con fighter in heavy armor with probably 100lb or more of crap in his backpack (which isn't drawn, but is there, trust me..the strongest dude in the party carries all the ratins, rope, crowbars etc that nobody else wants to, including likely Belkar's cooking pot). He probably clocks in at over 300lb in full gear (remember how the party couldn't move him when he was poisoned back in book 1). They are weedy sailors probably built for agility rather than bulk, and carrying no gear. Probably don't tip the scales at much more than 150.

So yeah, he's got similar mass, and therefore similar coefficient of friction on the deck etc. And his grip strength on the rope (ability to exert force, which determines friction...friction is essentially the force perpendicular to the rope times the coefficient of friction of the surfaces) is MUCH stronger.

I find his ability to casually stand there with the rope completely in tune with real world physics, except for, you know, the ability to casually lift 700lb over his head (assuming 24 strength....16-7 starting, 3-4 statbumps, belt of strength+4)

[ericgrau]

This is why all my fighters carry feather tokens and so on. Well more out of boredom. The usefulness is a nice side effect. Right now feather token fan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#fan) would be handy if they have any sails. As would painting whatever the heck ship part they want with marvelous pigments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments). And yes those are two of my favorites so I do usually have them. I'm sure some book has even better fits.

[hamishspence]

Question: Are those spikes on the back of his boots, or some kind of special reinforcement in the heel?

I figure reinforcement - he's had them since strip 198:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html

[cybishop]

I should have known better.

I read the comic, and was prepared to come on here and ask how Roy could be stronger than the deck he's standing on, only to find out its been asked about a dozen times already.

It has also been pointed out that Roy could quite possibly be heavy enough. Roy, as a muscular man in at-least-medium armor, might be as heavy as those two crewmen combined, and besides, see the math about how much he might be carrying at the moment.

But who cares about physics in this comic, anyway? It's not like Rich made up the idea that super-anchoring and super-leverage are sort of required secondary powers to make super-strength work the way it should.


A lot of people have been shooting that down, but I agree. At least one cleric ought to have enough ranks in Perception and/or Knowledge to eventually recognize that he's a vampire after seeing him for several days.

Obviously, Durkula will kill those clerics first.

Recognizing that he's a vampire isn't an issue. Judging by Bandana's expression here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html), it was probably obvious. Durkon looks undead. The problem is when and if anyone will know that Durkula has an agenda different from Durkon's.

[Conte_Vincero]

You've forgotten the other D&D physics thing....Roy probably weighs more than both of those sailors.

He's a high strength fighter, high con fighter in heavy armor with probably 100lb or more of crap in his backpack (which isn't drawn, but is there, trust me..the strongest dude in the party carries all the ratins, rope, crowbars etc that nobody else wants to, including likely Belkar's cooking pot). He probably clocks in at over 300lb in full gear (remember how the party couldn't move him when he was poisoned back in book 1). They are weedy sailors probably built for agility rather than bulk, and carrying no gear. Probably don't tip the scales at much more than 150.

So yeah, he's got similar mass, and therefore similar coefficient of friction on the deck etc. And his grip strength on the rope (ability to exert force, which determines friction...friction is essentially the force perpendicular to the rope times the coefficient of friction of the surfaces) is MUCH stronger.

I find his ability to casually stand there with the rope completely in tune with real world physics, except for, you know, the ability to casually lift 700lb over his head (assuming 24 strength....16-7 starting, 3-4 statbumps, belt of strength+4)
Nitpick

The coefficient of friction (μ) is a property of the surface and so will not be affected by increased weight.

F=μR
where R is the force acting perpendicular to the surface (this is what is affected by Roy's weight). and F is the force needed to overcome the static friction and start Roy moving. Note that that is not acting perpendicular to the rope, as the rope is not vertical, it is acting parallel to the surface.

In any case I do not feel that weight is the primary concern. only the hooded sailor could be said to be using his weight, and I would say that he is merely attempting to use his leg strength to help. The other is quite clearly not in any danger of being pulled off the surface, and is trying to use his core strength to help pull.



EDIT: Almost forgot, unnamed goatee sailor is going to find durkula sabotaging the ship to ensure it lands in the dwarven lands, and die.

[Quild]

Somewhere in the clouds, a deva (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html) is grinding her teeth.

Nice one!

I'm amazed about how Belkar manage to make Roy forget about the improvements their relationship recently had :p.
I am really jealous of his talent to find the right words.

[A.A.King]

I always like the Roy Belkar interactions. Their clash in morals and style of humor is always great.

[Cloud Rat]

I like this humor! OOTS has almost none lately.

[Shoelessgdowar]

I think this is the first time Felix has had his name said... which means two things... 1) we have a name to call him instead of dreadlock guy, and 2) Hurray, Fleix can live, cause he's named.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The strip is probably setting us up that:
3) the airship going to go down prematurely. My guess is it will land in Durkon's hometown.

Bandanna has already stated they're going to end up in the water. So, maybe another island adventure. Possibly involving gnomes; we haven't seen any for a while.

[BannedInSchool]

I think this is the first time Felix has had his name said... which means two things... 1) we have a name to call him instead of dreadlock guy, and 2) Hurray, Fleix can live, cause he's named.
He was named before receiving Banjo's medical assistance.

[Lheticus]

:belkar: I think this whole "fighter" thing has really gotten in the way of you discovering your true destiny as a Worf.

...

:smalleek:

sorry :smallbiggrin:

To be fair, he does get hit by the Worf EFFECT quite a bit...

[Peelee]

While reading this strip, I actually had to pause after the sailor said "And clear the hold, I want everyone above decks." It reminded me so much of the recent ferry disaster in South Korea and how the captain left everyone below deck while he himself abandoned ship. It makes me wonder if R.B. was thinking about this when he wrote the dialog, or if it is just coincidental. In any event, kudos to the captain for doing the right thing in that panel.

I highly doubt that event influenced this strip in any meaningful way. Without going too much into the issues behind Korean thing (my wife's family is South Korean, so trust me, I'm very well-informed on this matter), I'll just say that the circumstances are very different.

The airship's design looks like it would lend itself quite well to water landings (so long as they're not too rough, of course) and still keep sailing on, through likely without the improved speed gained by air travel. Bandana's main concern is that the outer hull may not be as watertight as necessary for a sea-going vessel. If it isn't, anyone below deck would find out the hard way pretty quickly, and thus the safest place would be abovedeck so that they may escape easier.

Things on the Sewol were..... different. I'd like to avoid warnings about discussing real-life incidents, so I'll just say there were a lot of things with that ship. I'd highly recommend you look into it, it's pretty amazing just how far it goes.

[talonos]

I haven't been following the reactions threads, so I'm sorry if this is a sore subject that has been banned or something...

...but after waiting for several strips to try and get used to the new font, it's still not working for me. I do find it harder to read, and the slowed momentum makes it harder to enjoy the strip.

After waiting several strips to get used to the art style, I like it. Thanks for the extra effort!

Your comic, your show. Just casting my vote one way or the other.

Thanks for all you do, rich!

[super dark33]

To be fair, he does get hit by the Worf EFFECT quite a bit...

Not really, kind of the opposite of Worf Effect. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html).

[Concept]

We're getting reintroduced to each character, but there's a strong overtone of magic > all in the last few strips. While magic is certainly powerful, the general philosophy of this comic has always been more along the lines of power = power.

With Tarquin basically neutralized by a gust of wind, and V fixing everything with a quick spell, I wonder if there's a shift in the comic, or if we're being set up for an early reminder of the balance philosophy. (early in the new book)

Of course, while Roy is mocked for the seemingly minor significance of holding a rope, that job could be more important than anything else going on with the repairs.

[[sWc]Konman]

Hahahaha. Telling Balkar he is going to dance on his grave, to his face. And they both know it's not true, but the way the characters have evolved with each other to allow that kind of banter. Love it.

[Shining Wrath]

What is Durkon doing to help? He doesn't need to breathe, but I don't think it would suit Hel's plans for her high priest to enter the ocean; in heavy (both senses) armor and no swim skill, even the vampire's +6 to STR isn't going to keep his head above water. How long would it take him to walk along the bottom to the Dwarven Lands?

So, Durkon wants the ship to continue flying at maximum speed. Which depends upon the plot, per Julio (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0937.html).

I expect Durkon's activities to be the subject of strip #952.

Edit: in #948, Durkon is between Roy and Belkar. In #951, he's not there, and Roy & Belkar have moved closer together (probably for Rich's artistic convenience). So he's gone off-screen to do something. I'm guessing he's trying to help, but maybe he's trying to get instructions from Hel, in which case goatee guy is doomed.

[Bulldog Psion]

Konman;17419127']Hahahaha. Telling Balkar he is going to dance on his grave, to his face. And they both know it's not true, but the way the characters have evolved with each other to allow that kind of banter. Love it.

I wouldn't be so sure he won't dance on Belkar's grave. :smallwink:

Of course, I think Belkar's death is going to be subverted in some weird way. Definitely not through survival, and probably not through undeath, but everyone in the story is so sure he's just going to straight up die that it can't happen that way.

[Traab]

I just have this mental image of roy getting a strength type of buff on him, and basically replacing the entire mast and rigging with his body. Or the airship tries to leave without them at some point and roy just kind of grabs hold of the hull and anchors the thing in place with a bored look on his face.

[Oko and Qailee]

Wow, Roy is being chewed out for not doing anything.

It's like him and Elan are swapping places again.

[Shining Wrath]

I wouldn't be so sure he won't dance on Belkar's grave. :smallwink:

Of course, I think Belkar's death is going to be subverted in some weird way. Definitely not through survival, and probably not through undeath, but everyone in the story is so sure he's just going to straight up die that it can't happen that way.

Disintegrate works. No grave; no resurrection. Roy's guilt goes off the charts, and if Xykon is the culprit, we get another "You broke my sword" scene but on steroids.

[Ezekiel]

Keeping those high-level fighters useful :smallbiggrin:

[x1372]

I'm half expecting that the next time we see Belkar and Roy, Belkar will be trying to teach Roy to dance that jig to make sure it looks good for him.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Not really, kind of the opposite of Worf Effect. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html).

That's just because Roy rarely tangles with spellcasters (he's smart, and always delegates that to V). Thanks to Roy's high hit point total, he can last many rounds against anything except a failed saving throw.

[Terrador]

I'm thinking this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0601.html) is just coincidence. Anyone disagree? I don't think Rich is trying to set up a "Greenhilts dance jigs" bit, but hey, reading too much into it is what we're all about!

[Bluepaw]

Nice hilt, Greenhilt!

[Zmeoaice]

"Inflammable means flammable? What a country!"

[ChowGuy]

I just have this mental image of roy getting a strength type of buff on him, and basically replacing the entire mast and rigging with his body.
What mast? It's an airship, it doesn't have a mast.


Or the airship tries to leave without them at some point and roy just kind of grabs hold of the hull and anchors the thing in place with a bored look on his face.
And since we already know the airship can lift off just fine with him on it, how would him trying trying to hold it down do any good? Telling the Laws of Physics to Shut up and Sit Down is V's bag, not Roy's.

[FLHerne]

What mast? It's an airship, it doesn't have a mast.
It has a pillar-thing to support the horizontal fan-things. near the top of the bag-thing. No idea what they do, but whatever. :smallyuk:

[Fishman]

It's interesting to me how this current set of strips seems to be a "meet the cast" series after a fashion. It's obviously not ignoring what's come before, but so far we've seen how each of the main heroes reacts to the crisis or what they can individually do to help. It feels a little weird in a continuity-heavy series like OOTS, but at the same time it's not acting like we've never seen the characters before.Makes sense to me: Remember, this is the start of a new book. The previous set of stuff is in a previous book. People who buy or otherwise encounter this in book form may never have seen the previous stuff before, and thus need some kind of intro to clue them in as to who all exists.

[Grey Watcher]

Makes sense to me: Remember, this is the start of a new book. The previous set of stuff is in a previous book. People who buy or otherwise encounter this in book form may never have seen the previous stuff before, and thus need some kind of intro to clue them in as to who all exists.

Although Roy's reaction is oddly counter to his usual. I mean, yes he's generally the most sensible of the bunch and letting the experts do their job IS the sensible thing to do, but he's also often a lot more take-charge than this, which Bandana is mostly doing instead.

[Shendue]

Funny how easy it looks for Roy. I liked that, though I'd have thought it was more the weight of the 2 sailors than their strength which held the rope in place, while Roy doesn't even feel any force, despite I doubt he weights as much as 2 people. :smalltongue:

The OOTS setting follows D&D rules, not actual physics. It just takes a STR check to hold that rope.

[Keltest]

Although Roy's reaction is oddly counter to his usual. I mean, yes he's generally the most sensible of the bunch and letting the experts do their job IS the sensible thing to do, but he's also often a lot more take-charge than this, which Bandana is mostly doing instead.

Id imagine Roy feels fairly out of depth on an airship. He has no idea what he SHOULD be doing, and I doubt he likes that.

[Sniffnoy]

And apparently in D&D physics, airships need their engines going in order to stay up...

[Shendue]

No, to go below deck requires a ladder. V merely went back to the level where Haley was on.

You mean he went DOWN A LEVEL? :biggrin:

[Killer Angel]

Poor Roy, downgraded to unskilled worker... :smalltongue:

[Effluvium]

This page just shows once again why Belkar is my favourite character. Too funny. :smallsmile:

[Giggling Ghast]

Just gotta say this strip really shows just how monstrous Roy's strength score is in comparison to normal people. Two people could barely hold onto that rope while he holds it one handedly with no issues.

Yeah, it's easy to forget how crazy strong Roy is because the art style doesn't do "ripped" very well.

[King of Nowhere]

it's really nice how roy, in reality, should be pulled up by the rope, but he actually remains there.
And yeah, I always considered the kind of feats a high level fighter can do to be supernatural abilities. they make more sense than trying to justify being impaled by a triceratop AND by a longsword and still being up and fighting.

[Shining Wrath]

And apparently in D&D physics, airships need their engines going in order to stay up...

Perhaps the hull is a lifting body?

[ellindsey]

And apparently in D&D physics, airships need their engines going in order to stay up...

Look back at the big splash page at the end of strip 248. The Mechane has propellers that point upwards as well as ones that point backwards. I figure that the lift bag is only providing most of the lift needed to keep it aloft, with the engines making up the rest, and without engine power it will gradually sink.

[Smolder]

And since we already know the airship can lift off just fine with him on it, how would him trying trying to hold it down do any good? Telling the Laws of Physics to Shut up and Sit Down is V's bag, not Roy's.

Why, then, is Roy not holding on to anything? In Reality, if you held on to a rope that is pulling on you and you don't hold on to anything, the rope pulls you off your feet, regardless of how strong you are. The 2 deck hands were bracing themselves against the side of the ship, but Roy doesn't need to do any such thing because in D&D, if you pass a Strength check, you succeed, regardless of how many laws of physics you may break.

[MagicalMeat]

What is Durkon doing to help? He doesn't need to breathe, but I don't think it would suit Hel's plans for her high priest to enter the ocean; in heavy (both senses) armor and no swim skill, even the vampire's +6 to STR isn't going to keep his head above water. How long would it take him to walk along the bottom to the Dwarven Lands?

Actually, Durkula would straight out die, in the same way as sunlight kills. Vampires can't cross/be in moving water (namely rivers and seas). But Durkula probably has Waterwalk prepared like he did on the Orc island

[Keltest]

Why, then, is Roy not holding on to anything? In Reality, if you held on to a rope that is pulling on you and you don't hold on to anything, the rope pulls you off your feet, regardless of how strong you are. The 2 deck hands were bracing themselves against the side of the ship, but Roy doesn't need to do any such thing because in D&D, if you pass a Strength check, you succeed, regardless of how many laws of physics you may break.

gravity? As mentioned above, without something to magically reduce his weight, Roy would be absolutely massive even if he isn't holding all the team's gear (which, admittedly, he might not be with all the bags of holding). His strength is such that he doesn't notice the horizontal pull of the rope, and gravity fights the vertical.

[CaDzilla]

Wait, where'd HPoH go?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

About Roy's strength.

He probably started with 18, he adds 3 for levels, he adds 6 for the belt, thus Roy has 27 strength, and the scale is exponential for scores higher than 10 or so.

27 strength gives a light load of 346 lb. or less. At 346 pounds of stuff carried Roy doesn't notice the weight any more than you notice your car keys, carrying that much has no more game effect than his clothing. So for those wondering how come Roy isn't pulled off the deck, he's got 345lb of crap in his pockets because he forgot to empty them this morning and hasn't noticed the trivial added weight.

Normal people have all their loads at less than a tenth of Roy's value. In terms of grip, lifting capability, ext... he has the strength of 10-12 normal people.

Note that Roy is in medium or heavy armor, if he's in medium armor then he can carry 693lb of stuff without it slowing him down, if he's in heavy armor then the load is 1,040lb. Note: these numbers are NOT what he can lift (that's much higher), they are the amounts he can carry without being slowed down any more than the 30-50lb of armor already slows him down.

Roy can walk around ALL DAY with the world's record weight lifter on his shoulders, PLUS the full weight that world record setter lifted, PLUS all the gear we can see him carrying, and it doesn't slow him down any more than heavy armor would.
Oh, that is glorious, Doug Lampert.

But my question is, how much is that in kilograms, assuming the same gravity as earth?

I assume from these numbers that a lb/pound is around 200 grams. Is that about right?

(I know physically how much a pound is and mentally how much stuff like boats and buildings weigh in kilograms, but I don't know the conversion. Similarly, I know physically a yard and mentally a meter, but I dont know the conversion other than a mile is 1608 meters or so, and is ????? feet.)

And I think a ton is half a thousand pounds/lb, or a thousand pounds is half a ton, I forget which, but I think its the former, given how Hadrosaurs could weigh over five tons. Yeah, that'd be stupid big if it was the latter.

[CrispyCriminal]

I guess I'm the only one who noticed that Roy's big boot is on the other foot on the bottem left panel?

[Doug Lampert]

it's really nice how roy, in reality, should be pulled up by the rope, but he actually remains there.
And yeah, I always considered the kind of feats a high level fighter can do to be supernatural abilities. they make more sense than trying to justify being impaled by a triceratop AND by a longsword and still being up and fighting.

He's got 400lb of copper in his pockets because in an off-screen moment Haley was out of extra dimensional space for loot and reverse pick-pocketed Roy and HE NEVER NOTICED because it does not affect him in any way to be carrying 400lb of extra stuff around.

Gesh, don't people even pay attention to the stuff that happens off panel?

If you're going to argue physics based on Roy's weight you have to know that weight INCLUDING everything he's carrying. And Roy could be lugging around 600+ lb of stuff for all we know (in fact given D&D characters normal behavior it's a near certainty that he is carrying that weight, see the part below about D&D characters being pack-rats).


Why, then, is Roy not holding on to anything? In Reality, if you held on to a rope that is pulling on you and you don't hold on to anything, the rope pulls you off your feet, regardless of how strong you are. The 2 deck hands were bracing themselves against the side of the ship, but Roy doesn't need to do any such thing because in D&D, if you pass a Strength check, you succeed, regardless of how many laws of physics you may break.

Not true at all, see above. Roy succeeding at the strength check is all that's needed to hold the rope, but staying down is because he's just that heavy.

Seriously, Roy can carry 700 or so pounds and have it effect him no more than the armor he's already wearing. Hence since stuff like his backpack are there, but not shown, we have NO IDEA how much he weighs, but given that D&D characters never throw ANYTHING away unless the GM insists on checking their encumbrance and they are over, we can reasonably assume that Roy is at or near his limit.

He's got no trouble with anchoring himself, two guys with an aggregate mass of a trivial fraction of what he's carrying weren't pulled off, Roy won't be either.

[Veya]

I guess I'm the only one who noticed that Roy's big boot is on the other foot on the bottem left panel?

Fairy sure the boots aren't really different sizes, they are just shown different sizes to put in pespective whatever side he is facing, if they swapped, it just means he turned around.

[Breccia]

I'm sorry, and it's probably my own lack of Knowledge/Steampunk, but how exactly would the engines dying cause them to take a header into the ocean?

Yes, I openly admit I'm overthinking this, and yes, hitting the ocean in any way would clearly be a problem. The helium of ANY airship loses some gradually, and losing thrust over water will eventually be a problem. But what could cause them to hit the water prow-first? The engines are on the back of the ship, and I'm just guessing here, but the ship looks like it's made of wood, and the engines metal. That would suggest the airship has a heavy rear end.
:belkar: And so does your mom! Ba-dum, tish!
Anyhow, for the airship to hit the water front-first would require some really unusual fulcrum position based on the way the hull is lashed to the gas bag.
:belkar: You mean V?
The rope Sally passes to Roy isn't one of the main moorings. As seen here
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0937.html
Roy's not far enough forward to be holding the front of the balloon to the front of the ship's deck. It looks like he's holding some kind of steering fin halfway along, which is unquestionably important, but wouldn't cause the front end to dip if it was released. We have seen that the Mechane is capable of aiming downwards, but that seems to be a deliberate action on the part of the pilot. The boat's been more or less level during this whole crisis, with nobody visible at the helm or the (broken) control panel.

[Doug Lampert]

Oh, that is glorious, Doug Lampert.

But my question is, how much is that in kilograms, assuming the same gravity as earth?

I assume from these numbers that a lb/pound is around 200 grams. Is that about right?

(I know physically how much a pound is and mentally how much stuff like boats and buildings weigh in kilograms, but I don't know the conversion. Similarly, I know physically a yard and mentally a meter, but I dont know the conversion other than a mile is 1608 meters or so, and is ????? feet.)

And I think a ton is half a thousand pounds/lb, or a thousand pounds is half a ton, I forget which, but I think its the former, given how Hadrosaurs could weigh over five tons. Yeah, that'd be stupid big if it was the latter.

Nope, a lb is just over 453 grams. The 1,040lb that Roy can carry at heavy load is 471kg, his clean and jerk limit is about twice that (per the rules). So if Roy gets into a weight lifting contest he falls just shy of a metric tonne or long ton, but just over the standard English units ton.

A ton is 2000lb.

His light load is 156 kg, if he wants to enter the Olympic gymnastics or swimming competitions he shouldn't carry more than this or it will mildly handicap him.

[Psyren]

Roy has officially become less useful than Elan. thats gotta sting.

He's a fighter. Welcome to D&D.


Best part is that Roy dose not even know how strong he is compared to the rest of the world (NPCs). Whats was his WIS? 12?


It's not so much that he doesn't know - it's more that he didn't realize there was something to do that required a guy who could bench-press an ox.

[Raphite1]

Fairy sure the boots aren't really different sizes, they are just shown different sizes to put in pespective whatever side he is facing, if they swapped, it just means he turned around.

They're different sizes!
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html

Even now, perspective is lovably screwy in this comic. Characters are still often drawn with the larger eye on the side of their face furthest from the reader.

[Keltest]

They're different sizes!
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html

Even now, perspective is lovably screwy in this comic. Characters are still usually drawn with the larger eye on the side of their face furthest from the reader.

they also switch feet when you don't watch them!

[ellindsey]

I'm sorry, and it's probably my own lack of Knowledge/Steampunk, but how exactly would the engines dying cause them to take a header into the ocean?


Look at the big picture of the ship on strip 948. It has propellers which point backwards, and propellers which point upwards. The lift bag provides most, but not all, of the lifting force. The upwards-pointing propellers provide the rest. With no engine power, the ship descends.

[MagicalMeat]

About Roy holding the rope, I think you are forgetting how insanely heavy Roy is. He has a Str of 20~ without the Giant Belt (so he's very muscular, like stronger than Arnold muscular), is pretty tall (6'1"ish I'd say), is wearing heavy armor (40-60 lbs), wearing boots (2-5 lbs) and is carrying a Zweihānder (5-7 lbs). So he weights about 340-400. And that is without considering all the random crap he mig be carrying, like gold, sextants and Bags of Tricks, which might another 5-10 lbs.

And to the people saying that muscles are useless for holding something down, if you are heavy, but don't have any strength in your arms, your arms would be pulled off

Edit: And for the rest of the world that isn't 'Merican, 340-400 lbs is 154-181 kg

[137beth]

Well, it's good to see V is learning how the pseud-rules of drama work. Watch out for a fire in the least flammable area:smallsmile:
EDIT: Oops, just realized it was an English joke. Eh, my interpretation is better.

EDIT 2: Oh, my first edit was swordsaged...

[hamishspence]

The joke is that V (but not that sailor) knows "inflammable" and "flammable" mean the same thing.

[Stella]

Funny how easy it looks for Roy. I liked that, though I'd have thought it was more the weight of the 2 sailors than their strength which held the rope in place, while Roy doesn't even feel any force, despite I doubt he weights as much as 2 people. :smalltongue:I'll weigh in. (rimshot!)

In D&D, weight (mass) rarely comes into doing things with strength. Carrying stuff being an exception, breaking down a door being not an exception. A battering ram isn't strong, it's massive. It's just kind of folded in, and then there's a lot of handwaving which is meant to distract you from what is actually going on.


Did anyone else think that Bandana suddenly snapping at Roy was a bit incongruous? I mean, sure, Haley and Elan and V have all been being helpful, but staying out of the way of the professionals, especially on a place like a ship, is still a pretty decent contribution. Or at least not a negative. The change from telling Haley that he'd worry about the possible negative impact of arrows in the control panel until after the emergency was over, and other generally non-stressed and cordial interactions with crew and OotS members, and then snapping at Roy while the emergency was still ongoing seemed a bit odd to me.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

So, if a ten foot dinghy weighs 100 pounds dry weight and a 15 horsepower engine for that type weighs 78 pounds, and boat plus engine is able to plane with adults in it as will fit, then that's 178 pounds of boat, as in, fast boat.

So, Roy could carry two of those for a total of 356 pounds, as a light load?

Heck, that's two ten-foot boats with motor. Six people in the order of the stick, two boats, space seems good. So, they could plane and do good transport. Also, Roy could carry those in his swimming event in the Olympics and not even be mildly handicapped.

Why does Roy not just get a boat for the order? Even with no engine, if it was rowable, he clearly could exert the horse power to move it.

Or when everyone else gets tired, Roy should just carry them. He shouldn't mind the weight.

Also, boats work as umbrellas for blocking the sun.

And 156 kilograms is about the weight of a full grown ostrich. Roy should carry an ostrich if they can't find a boat.

[Akisa]

Best part is that Roy dose not even know how strong he is compared to the rest of the world (NPCs). Whats was his WIS? 12?


Still, keep it up Giant, love the whole thing, as always.

Actually it's higher than that. Because during his interview with angel about getting into his afterlife, the angel commented that Roy would make a decent cleric. This I would say his Wisdom score is closer to 15.

[Amphiox]

Roy was supposed to have started out with balanced stats, without being optimized for any particular class. How likely would he have been to have started with a high enough INT to have become a decent wizard, a high enough WIS to have been an effective Cleric, a narratively reasonable CHA from his behaviour as party leader and a DEX not low enough to be lampshadable as a dump stat (for surely if it was there would have been a joke about it by now), and still have 18 STR, barring a stupendously lucky starting roll? Would it be more likely that Roy's STR was at base something like 15-17?

[Veya]

They're different sizes!
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0401.html

Roy got some serious boot-swapping skills to change them every time he turns around, then. :smallamused:

[Keltest]

Roy was supposed to have started out with balanced stats, without being optimized for any particular class. How likely would he have been to have started with a high enough INT to have become a decent wizard, a high enough WIS to have been an effective Cleric, a narratively reasonable CHA from his behaviour as party leader and a DEX not low enough to be lampshadable as a dump stat (for surely if it was there would have been a joke about it by now), and still have 18 STR, barring a stupendously lucky starting roll? Would it be more likely that Roy's STR was at base something like 15-17?

depending on the DM's preference for character creation, a character can hypothetically be allowed an 18 on all of their stats at once. Its incredibly unlikely, but if its up to pure chance, a character able to reasonably play as any class based on their base stats is possible.

[Finagle]

Man, the whole "hook hands" thing just looks horrible. When it was a stick figure comic, it was fine...but now that it's a much more realistic comic, the pitchfork hands are just jarring. Narrative-breaking. Gets in the way of telling the story-breaking.

Also, Roy's "I'm going to dance on your grave" seems unnecessarily dark. He just gets some razzing from Belkar and tells him, "Oh, BTW you're gonna die and I'm going to laugh at you?" Geez if I was the DM I'd say something to the player about roleplaying Lawful Good.

[A.A.King]

Roy was supposed to have started out with balanced stats, without being optimized for any particular class. How likely would he have been to have started with a high enough INT to have become a decent wizard, a high enough WIS to have been an effective Cleric, a narratively reasonable CHA from his behaviour as party leader and a DEX not low enough to be lampshadable as a dump stat (for surely if it was there would have been a joke about it by now), and still have 18 STR, barring a stupendously lucky starting roll? Would it be more likely that Roy's STR was at base something like 15-17?

You have to remember that Roy is the hero of the story for a reason. This story can only exist because Roy had an incredible lucky starting role so that he can both be the fighter and still have the mental stats and social skills to be a great leader. It is very unlikely that one particular character has great rolls in everything, but statistically such a character much exist. And is those characters who become the heroes of stories such as the OOTS.


Also, Roy's "I'm going to dance on your grave" seems unnecessarily dark. He just gets some razzing from Belkar and tells him, "Oh, BTW you're gonna die and I'm going to laugh at you?" Geez if I was the DM I'd say something to the player about roleplaying Lawful Good.

You're not the only one who thinks that. I don't have the link right now (I'm sure someone else has posted it already anyway) but remember when Roy was trying to get into the afterlive? The person who was supposed to evaluate him mentioned to Roy that those comments weren't helping his alignment and he really should cut down on them.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Oh inflammable, how I hate that word. :smallmad:

I see that Roy is showing of what fighters are good at. :smallamused:

I love the physics arguments going on in this thread. :smalltongue:

Still lovin' the new art style!

[Boogastreehouse]

*





No, to go below deck requires a ladder. V merely went back to the level where Haley was on.

You mean he went DOWN A LEVEL? :biggrin:

Ugh, let's not start that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html)again (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0124.html)!







Hmmm...

Crew-member unexpectedly going below deck to clear everyone out of the hold, eh?

Seems like an easy task... What could go wrong?

Probably not much, seeing as Durkula already left the hold and is standing on the deck (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0948.html).

Oh, darn. You're right.

*

[super dark33]

Narrative-breaking. Gets in the way of telling the story-breaking.



That woud be true, if a major plot point was that the charecters have non-filled arms, or that suddenly everything revolved around the arms being filled with color, instead of the gate plot.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Man, the whole "hook hands" thing just looks horrible. When it was a stick figure comic, it was fine...but now that it's a much more realistic comic, the pitchfork hands are just jarring. Narrative-breaking. Gets in the way of telling the story-breaking.

While visually distracting might make sense here, "narrative breaking" only works if the new art style is interfering with the plot. It may get in the way of your absorbing of the story, but not in the way of telling it.

[Bitzer]

Great comic, I must admit I was worried about Felix going down into the hold, but someone pointed out that Durkula is already on the deck.


I'll weigh in. (rimshot!)
Did anyone else think that Bandana suddenly snapping at Roy was a bit incongruous? I mean, sure, Haley and Elan and V have all been being helpful, but staying out of the way of the professionals, especially on a place like a ship, is still a pretty decent contribution. Or at least not a negative. The change from telling Haley that he'd worry about the possible negative impact of arrows in the control panel until after the emergency was over, and other generally non-stressed and cordial interactions with crew and OotS members, and then snapping at Roy while the emergency was still ongoing seemed a bit odd to me.

I don't think it's incongruous. She's under a lot of pressure, and when she was dealing with Haley, she was too busy rescuing her crew to snap at anyone. Now that the fire is out and everyone is more-or-less safe, she is turning her attention to getting the ship flyable again and has a little more time for shouting at people.

[Seward]

Nitpick

The coefficient of friction (μ) is a property of the surface and so will not be affected by increased weight.

F=μR
where R is the force acting perpendicular to the surface (this is what is affected by Roy's weight). and F is the force needed to overcome the static friction and start Roy moving. Note that that is not acting perpendicular to the rope, as the rope is not vertical, it is acting parallel to the surface..

I was insufficiently clear I guess.

Hazard #1 - Roy is pulled along the surface of the deck by the rope.
This is resisted by his weight (force caused by mass and gravity in a direction perpendicular to the deck) and the coefficient of friction between his boots and the deck. His weight absolutely matters for this one. The two crewpeople had less weight between them but possibly more surface area (4 feet instead of two big boots) so there is some risk of this, even if Roy is heavier, but worst case he gets pulled to the rail and stops there, as long as the railing doesn't also break.

Hazard #2 - Roy is lifted into the air by the rope. This is only affected by his mass, but again, the rope wasn't pulling the two crewpeople off their feet, so we're likely ok there.

Hazard #3 - The rope slips out of Roy's hands. This seems to be Bandanna's concern, as that would also be the likely problem if he tied it to something and it gets loose (given Roy's lack of Profession Sailor and likely Use Rope he probably ties terrible knots). That's a slightly tougher physics problem as it involves a circular surface area (the outside of the rope) and pressure exerted on it from all directions (his hands). Friction resistance to motion is still force perpendicular to the surface (his hands, and their strength) vs coefficient of friction of rope surface + his gloves. Again, two big hands compared to 4 smaller hands...less surface area affected but he's MUCH stronger, can exert much more force so yeah...he can hold it casually with one hand.

Of course in D&D the physics really do boil down to a raw strength check, if for some reason Profession Sailor can't be used (perhaps they could use it to tie the rope properly off once they've hauled it, but until then they're rolling strength checks). In that case you've got the stronger of the two maybe having a +1 to the check, with the other adding a +2 if he or she rolls a 10+ on the assist strength check. Roy's at least +7 blows them out of the water, and he's able to just "take 10", which means he can just stand there casually and do it. Heck, if the Dc is 15 he could handicap himself (hold with 1 hand while taking 10 for a -2 circumstance bonus)

[Seward]

Oh, that is glorious, Doug Lampert.

But my question is, how much is that in kilograms, assuming the same gravity as earth?


If we assume Roy is a 220lb man, he's about 100kg. (I've always pictured him as built like a pro basketball player, strong but also built for grace and speed. Michael Jordan was just about 100kg when he played, and is about 2 meters tall)

With D&D weights his armor is a minimum of 25lb, more if it isn't a breastplate and his sword adds another 8lb...33lb or roughly 15kg more.

A typical D&D fighter will carry water, rope, grappling hook, iron spikes, 7 days trail rations, spare clothing (we've seen him dress up), a crowbar, bedroll and anything else the rest of the party wants him to carry (like their rations, water, etc) that isn't especially valuable (the "good stuff" tends to end up in bags of holding or their equivalent). Even if he's just carrying the bare minimum of that crap, he's going to have a 40-50lb backpack (call it another 20kg). That's how I arrived at minimum 300lb (about 135kg) for his weight.

It could be a lot higher. My high strength monk often traveled with a packrat-cleric and carried a lot of her stuff, probably over 100lb of just her things. There was one adventure where he got crushed under the weight of her gear, after a series of strength-damage events.

[sengmeng]

ooh, cue the ominous music...


Just noticed a detail Roy's sword acquired in the art upgrade: there's a row of three X's on the hilt. No doubt meant to be a leather thong wrapped around it to improve the grip.

You don't think it signifies a secret liquor container in the hilt?

[BaronOfHell]

Did anyone else think that Bandana suddenly snapping at Roy was a bit incongruous?

Not sure if it was out of place for her to do so, as we don't know her very well.
I myself have quite a few times experienced people treat me like that, situations where I thought I did the best I could to contribute despite being pretty clueless.. only for someone to suddenly get in my face asking how I was going to help.
So I don't think it's very uncommon. At least Bandana showed Roy what to do, in stead of just telling him to get a move on and expect him to figure out what to do.

[Jasdoif]

You don't think it signifies a secret liquor container in the hilt?No, it's not a secret if it's labelled.

The secret liquor container would be inside the blade. :smalltongue:

[oppyu]

Just wait until there's some meat that needs shielding; then we'll see how useful Roy is.

[Keltest]

No, it's not a secret if it's labelled.

The secret liquor container would be inside the blade. :smalltongue:

That seems like something a dwarf would do, and we know a human forged that sword. The hilt is obviously able to summon potions of heroism that happen to look, feel, and taste exactly like liquor.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Just wait until there's some meat that needs shielding; then we'll see how useful Roy is.

Protect the spam!

[AutomatedTeller]

funny comic :) inflammable jokes are always good fun. And Roy just kind of holding the rope is excellent


But I don't see how he can possibly hold the rope down if it is pulled with enough force to rip it out of the hull.

Still... funny :)

Why does the big boot change feet in the last two panels? Did Roy shift his feet?

[Keltest]

funny comic :) inflammable jokes are always good fun. And Roy just kind of holding the rope is excellent


But I don't see how he can possibly hold the rope down if it is pulled with enough force to rip it out of the hull.

Still... funny :)

Why does the big boot change feet in the last two panels? Did Roy shift his feet?

either that or we shifted camera angles. if you look carefully, his body stance does seem to be different.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

funny comic :) inflammable jokes are always good fun. And Roy just kind of holding the rope is excellent


But I don't see how he can possibly hold the rope down if it is pulled with enough force to rip it out of the hull.

Still... funny :)

Why does the big boot change feet in the last two panels? Did Roy shift his feet?

Roy posses the ability to switch shoes very quickly.

[Doorhandle]

ooh, cue the ominous music...


Just noticed a detail Roy's sword acquired in the art upgrade: there's a row of three X's on the hilt. No doubt meant to be a leather thong wrapped around it to improve the grip.

...:smallconfused:

Go on. :smallwink:


Kidding aside, It's good to see him do something that isn't tangentially related to wharfin- I mean, fighting.

[Seward]

Would it be more likely that Roy's STR was at base something like 15-17?

Doesn't really matter for this discussion. He'll have 3 statbumps for sure by now, maybe 4. That puts his effective strength in the 18-20 range, and his belt of giant strength is either +4 or +6.

Average of all the unknowns is about 24 str, but he might be only 22 or might be as high as 27-28. Even at the worst case (22 strength), he's able to clean and press (lift over his head) 520lb, deadlift (lift off the ground and stagger around) 1040lb and drag 2600lb. Or to put it another way, he's capable on his own of pulling a fully loaded Covered Wagon of the type that was used on the California and Oregon trail, replacing the team of animals.

[BrotherMirtillo]

Huh... so long, “You were right about Durkon. I was wrong.” Hello, “I’m going to dance on your grave.” If Roy had said that about a hundred strips ago, I’d be laughing my head off. As it is, it’s a smile, but it’s an unsure one. Meh... I’ll chalk it up to trash talk. What’s a bit of casual ball-busting between co-workers?

What floored me was Bandana throwing Roy for a logistical loop. It’s so rare that anyone’s ever bossed him around. I must remind myself to be patient before raising her on a pedestal, but that’ll be a tough reminder. As it is, I want to see her and Lien challenge a horde of undead and kick some cadaverous keister.


:belkar: I think this whole "fighter" thing has really gotten in the way of you discovering your true destiny as a Worf.

...

:smalleek:

sorry :smallbiggrin:

First off, ow. Second, well done. And third, I now foresee Roy getting impaled by various animals every ten comics for the rest of the book.

:haley: That's totally going to be a thing with you from now on, I can tell.


Because of the new arm-style, Roy with his tight sleeves looks way skinnier than the two people holding the rope before him, who are supposed to be way weaker than him, :smallfrown:

I thought that back on #948, so I look at it this way: don't see the sleeve as the size of the arm itself.

Look at it as the size of the sleeve relative to the arm.

Roy's skinny blue bicep doesn't make him a stringbean. It means the pirates are wearing loose, cottony shirts that ripple in the wind and add flourish to the occasional brawls with enemy gangs. Meanwhile, Roy wears armor that looks sculpted to fit his massive frame, with his broad shoulders straining the mighty metal plating, his every muscle evident beneath it. (Fill in various other lines of purple prose as you like.)


Why does the big boot change feet in the last two panels? Did Roy shift his feet?

Obviously, Roy has put a few extra points into Diplomacy. At a moment's notice, he can always put his best foot forward. :smallwink:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Obviously, Roy has put a few extra points into Diplomacy. At a moment's notice, he can always put his best foot forward. :smallwink:

That was great. :smalltongue:

[BlazingBlade]

Or to put it another way, he's capable on his own of pulling a fully loaded Covered Wagon of the type that was used on the California and Oregon trail, replacing the team of animals.

Even so, he can only carry 100 pounds of meat back to the wagon after hunting.

[Boogastreehouse]

*


Protect the spam!

I think this forum gets enough spam already...


*

[Seerow]

Doesn't really matter for this discussion. He'll have 3 statbumps for sure by now, maybe 4. That puts his effective strength in the 18-20 range, and his belt of giant strength is either +4 or +6.

Average of all the unknowns is about 24 str, but he might be only 22 or might be as high as 27-28. Even at the worst case (22 strength), he's able to clean and press (lift over his head) 520lb, deadlift (lift off the ground and stagger around) 1040lb and drag 2600lb. Or to put it another way, he's capable on his own of pulling a fully loaded Covered Wagon of the type that was used on the California and Oregon trail, replacing the team of animals.

More than that. That is the amount he can push/pull in average circumstances (think: Legend of Zelda style block pushing puzzle on flat floor). Favorable circumstances (such as a wagon with wheel on a set path) double the amount you can push/pull. So he could totally pull two of those wagons, simultaneously. Or pull one along without wheels.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

*



I think this forum gets enough spam already...


*

Spam, spam, spam, spam! :smalltongue:
Of the meaty variety.

[Gnoman]

Spam, spam, spam[/COLOR]

Humbug!



Wonder if anyone will get that.

[Seward]

More than that. ... Favorable circumstances (such as a wagon with wheel on a set path) double the amount you can push/pull. So he could totally pull two of those wagons, simultaneously. Or pull one along without wheels.

If you saw the conditions those wagons operated in, dragging is a fair metaphor (often up to axles in mud, up hills, no roads, over rocks, mushy ground, sand, etc)

But yeah, once he reaches San Fransisco and hits a decent road, he could tow two.

[rodneyAnonymous]

The adjective "inflammable" is similar to the verb "inflame".


Flammable: An oddity, chiefly useful in saving lives. The common word meaning "combustible" is inflammable. But some people are thrown off by the in- and think inflammable means "not combustible". For this reason, trucks carrying gasoline or explosive are now marked flammable. Unless you are operating such a truck and hence are concerned with the safety of children and illiterates, use inflammable.

[Animidest]

Well, I think I understand the purpose of the previous comic (besides the aesthetic) a little better now. Poor linear fighters.

[dtilque]

The guy clearing the holds out is going to find something very unnatural, something that goes against the very nature of reality. It'll be so mindbending that he'll be lucky if he survives with his hit points, constitution and even his sanity intact.

Mr Scruffy and Extreminator playing pachisi would be my guess


The ship going down because the engines stopped means that it (the ship) is from the Star Trek1 universe. We've already had a visual ST joke about the control panel plus someone above pointing out the Worf/wharf joke.2 Just like the last book had Star Wars jokes and references, this book will be replete with ST jokes. So sit back and enjoy them. Or not, if you don't care for them.



1 You do remember that the Enterprise would always have immediate and serious orbital decay once the engines were off, don't you?

2 I'm not sure that was really meant to be a joke, but we'll take it anyway.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

If you saw the conditions those wagons operated in, dragging is a fair metaphor (often up to axles in mud, up hills, no roads, over rocks, mushy ground, sand, etc)

But yeah, once he reaches San Fransisco and hits a decent road, he could tow two.

This is how Roy will make a living once he saves the world.

[Orc Warrior]

Didn't V just go below deck?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Didn't V just go below deck?

No, they went down from the poop deck to the main deck.

[Benthesquid]

Didn't V just go below deck?

Consensus seems to be no, V just moved from the upper deck to the lower deck.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I just realized that this is the second time that Vaarsuvius has been part of a grammar related joke. This trend excites me.

[rodneyAnonymous]

So wizard abilities can also be used to put out fires, while fighter abilities can also be used to hold a rope.

[Benthesquid]

So wizard abilities can also be used to put out fires, while fighter abilities can also be used to hold a rope.

Yes, but on the other hand, Roy never rented out his soul to Fiends.

[warrl]

Of course, while Roy is mocked for the seemingly minor significance of holding a rope, that job could be more important than anything else going on with the repairs.

When Bandana asked what Roy is doing, he should have said "Waiting for instructions from somebody who knows what needs done. You, for example."

---

On closer examination, I don't think the sailor in the gray hood is being lifted off the deck. Not many people can be lifted into the air by their hands with their arms extended straight out in front of them. Instead I think he/she is bracing a foot against the railing-post for leverage to pull harder *horizontally*. The sailor in the stocking cap is quite obviously leaning for the same purpose.

And, judging by the angle of the rope, Rich didn't show us Bandana saying to Roy "now stand over here with it.". Either the two sailors were pulling in the wrong direction (unlikely unless they were intending to tie it down) or whatever's at the top end of that rope moved.


Kidding aside, It's good to see him do something that isn't tangentially related to wharfin- I mean, fighting.

:belkar: He's engaging in wharfare...


So wizard abilities can also be used to put out fires, while fighter abilities can also be used to hold a rope.

Roy's abilities would be extremely useful, if they were accompanied by skills relevant to the situation.

But he doesn't have such skills. Well, maybe Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) will be useful later in repairing the ship, but right now not so much.

So here are these two highly-skilled people currently committed to the task of... pulling on a rope. Roy can do that, he just needs to be told where to stop. A valuable contribution - with probably nearly half the value being in the fact that those two skilled people AREN'T stuck dealing with that rope - and little need for further instruction.

[toapat]

With D&D weights his armor is a minimum of 25lb, more if it isn't a breastplate and his sword adds another 8lb...33lb or roughly 15kg more.

its 50 LBs. Only Fullplate has Pauldrons/Spaulders (depending on specifically at what point in Armor Engineering OotSiverse is at), and we havent had proof yet that hes replaced the gauntlet, boot, or torso assemblies from the start of the strip with Mithril versions.


The sailor in the stocking cap is quite obviously leaning for the same purpose.

the sailor with the cap is most likely Sally, who probably has fewer ranks in Architecture and Engineering then Roy (assuming both are maxing the skill). Considering the guy with the poncho is just in the middle of the ship when the lightning strikes, where as Raincoat hasnt been on panel


[Crazy Theory] Durkula used Control Weather to hit the engines with lightning[/Crazy Theory]

[Ted The Bug]

Shouldn't the rope be above Roy's hand?

[dtilque]

[Crazy Theory] Durkula used Control Weather to hit the engines with lightning[/Crazy Theory]

Control Weather (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWeather.htm) doesn't work like that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html).

[Stella]

[Crazy Theory] Durkula used Control Weather to hit the engines with lightning[/Crazy Theory]Control Weather takes 10 minutes to cast with verbal and somatic components, and is therefore not a terribly covet act.

It also cannot summon lightning, although in the Spring it can summon a thunderstorm which would have a chance to cause a lightning strike on the ship, and a smaller chance to cause a hit on the ship which also hit the engines.

[DaggerPen]

What is Durkon doing to help? He doesn't need to breathe, but I don't think it would suit Hel's plans for her high priest to enter the ocean; in heavy (both senses) armor and no swim skill, even the vampire's +6 to STR isn't going to keep his head above water. How long would it take him to walk along the bottom to the Dwarven Lands?

If the ocean counts as running water, the HPOH definitely does not want to land in the ocean: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)


Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion.


Obviously, Roy has put a few extra points into Diplomacy. At a moment's notice, he can always put his best foot forward. :smallwink:

*groaaaaaaan*

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Control Weather (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWeather.htm) doesn't work like that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html).

I'm sorry, I didn't hear you just there. What did you say again? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html)

Also, does anyone find it funny that there are some theories that Thor threw the lightning, and then some that the High Priest called it.

[Keltest]

I'm sorry, I didn't hear you just there. What did you say again? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html)

Also, does anyone find it funny that there are some theories that Thor threw the lightning, and then some that the High Priest called it.

well obviously Thor threw the lightning. the question is: how drunk was he while doing it?

[Necris Omega]

Maybe Roy should have looked into being a Monk. He's got that whole Lawful thing down, and it'd be perfect for kicking Belkar square in the back of the head right now.

[Paseo H]

Last two panels keep it from being another gag strip.

Perhaps I'm being uncharitable, but am I detecting an edge to Roy here? There's not being particularly fussed about being rid of this sociopath, and there's glorying in his death. Or was it all supposed to be tongue in cheek?

And I'm saying that not out of concern for Belkar but out of concern for Roy.

[Keltest]

Last two panels keep it from being another gag strip.

Perhaps I'm being uncharitable, but am I detecting an edge to Roy here? There's not being particularly fussed about being rid of this sociopath, and there's glorying in his death. Or was it all supposed to be tongue in cheek?

And I'm saying that not out of concern for Belkar but out of concern for Roy.

I feel like he should have had the "i am not amused" low scowl that his little head has here on the forums when he said that. Without it, it seems like hes saying it mildly and matter-of-factly, as if its just a fact of life that hes reminding Belkar of.

:roy: "I'm going to dance on your grave, you know."

[Paseo H]

Well, keep in mind that at one point he thought to straight up murder Belkar as well. Again, not concerned about the little bastard, but for Roy's own well being here.

Moreover...it seems very dangerous to allude to the prophecy, especially since Belkar might have somehow not registered it when Roy mentioned it the first time. After all, if he knows there's a prophecy, he could try to take everyone with him before he goes out as well.

[Keltest]

Well, keep in mind that at one point he thought to straight up murder Belkar as well. Again, not concerned about the little bastard, but for Roy's own well being here.

Moreover...it seems very dangerous to allude to the prophecy, especially since Belkar might have somehow not registered it when Roy mentioned it the first time. After all, if he knows there's a prophecy, he could try to take everyone with him before he goes out as well.

A: why would he do that? Belkar is spiteful, but there are better designated targets than people who let him kill stuff for them. B: Roy has a moderate chance of taking on Belkar 1 on 1. Belkar vs, say V would get Halfling bits everywhere.

[Paseo H]

"Everyone" includes possibly allies of the heroes that he might not feel particularly attached to.

Besides, my point isn't about Roy's capability, it's about his mentality. He's been through a lot, and though Belkar deserves death as much as Xykon or Tarquin, but nobility requires us to give the enemy less than they deserve. Otherwise every city would look like the outer walls of Meereen right now.

[pendell]

Hypothesis: The lightning occurred because Thor is trying to prevent the HPOH from bringing "Death and destruction " to the dwarven lands.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Keltest]

Hypothesis: The lightning occurred because Thor is trying to prevent the HPOH from bringing "Death and destruction " to the dwarven lands.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I think youre giving Thor too much credit there :smallamused:

on an unrelated note, you are aware that you don't have to manually put your "respectfully" signature in every post, right? Youre clearly using the signature space, so you know it exists...

I don't mean to be rude, it just strikes me as odd that someone would go out of their way to not use a feature meant to do exactly what theyre doing.

[Paseo H]

Dude's signing his posts manually because that's sometimes how it's done. Or do you suggest that when people write snail letters they should go through their stationery and pre-emptively line the bottom of each with a generic closing signature rather than handwriting it each time.

I'm sorry, but LOL :smalltongue:

[Stella]

I'm sorry, I didn't hear you just there. What did you say again? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html)I said you missed the part where Durkon had to chant "Control Weather" over and over for 10 minutes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html)

A spell based joke is either rarely or never repeated (why does V never cast Evan's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion any more? Seems like an effective spell, to me). Control Weather does pretty much work like that, assuming that it was spring when it was cast. You can argue the amount of time he had to chant it, but that will never be able to be known, so we can just let that go. And I'll grant that the 10 minute delay was ignored, but, you know, humor trumps the rules over and over. And you can argue that thunder doesn't shatter treants (animated trees, whatever), but that's not the fault of the spell so much as just more author license with the effect of the lightning.



Also, does anyone find it funny that there are some theories that Thor threw the lightning, and then some that the High Priest called it.I don't find it particularly funny. After all, the forums are famous for wild speculations and epileptic trees. And, in a world where magic is real, looking for a source outside of nature for a storm isn't all that unreasonable. I'd find it more funny if people didn't make wild speculations about the source of the lightning.

[St Fan]

Look at the big picture of the ship on strip 948. It has propellers which point backwards, and propellers which point upwards. The lift bag provides most, but not all, of the lifting force. The upwards-pointing propellers provide the rest. With no engine power, the ship descends.

What comic #948 also shows us is that the airship is already quite low above the sea. Probably to avoid the strongest winds in altitude, and/or because it's been weighed down by the rain. So it would take very little descent to actually touch the water.

[Catbeller Mouse]

Funny how easy it looks for Roy. I liked that, though I'd have thought it was more the weight of the 2 sailors than their strength which held the rope in place, while Roy doesn't even feel any force, despite I doubt he weights as much as 2 people. :smalltongue:

Bit odder than that. Strength is useless without leverage. No matter how strong he is, he can't pull harder than his body weight, unless he's anchored to the deck somehow - and the crewman specifically told him that tying the rope to the deck (that would include Roy hooking a foot on a railing or beam) would only lead to ripping the anchor point from the deck - the force on the rope is greater than the integral strength of the deck.

Same thing in the Six Million Dollar Man TV show - always showing Steve Austin tossing a man in the air because his arm was strong. Yep, but his spine, shoulder, and hips ain't that strong, and to the point, he couldn't lift the schmuck and throw him without leverage. He'd just kinda dance closer to the guy and tear his soft original content body apart.

Also: Winter Soldier, showing him ripping a car door off. Nope. Can't. He'd just yank his own body down. Another scene: hooking an airborne Falcon in full powered flight with a cable, and hauling him to a halt. NOPE. He'd just be yanked into the air, probably tearing his shoulder joint off. He hasn't the mass to stop a 200-300 pound man carrying a flight suit moving at tens of miles an hour (he was taking off). Picture the world's strongest man trying to catch a moving car: it's like that. Car wins.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

If we assume Roy is a 220lb man, he's about 100kg. (I've always pictured him as built like a pro basketball player, strong but also built for grace and speed. Michael Jordan was just about 100kg when he played, and is about 2 meters tall)

With D&D weights his armor is a minimum of 25lb, more if it isn't a breastplate and his sword adds another 8lb...33lb or roughly 15kg more.



A typical D&D fighter will carry water, rope, grappling hook, iron spikes, 7 days trail rations, spare clothing (we've seen him dress up), a crowbar, bedroll and anything else the rest of the party wants him to carry (like their rations, water, etc) that isn't especially valuable (the "good stuff" tends to end up in bags of holding or their equivalent).

Even if he's just carrying the bare minimum of that crap, he's going to have a 40-50lb backpack (call it another 20kg). That's how I arrived at minimum 300lb (about 135kg) for his weight.

It could be a lot higher.


Given that Roy's probably been given a cabin while aboard the Mechane (presumably shared with Elan and Belkar rather than one all to himself), chances are most of his stuff will be in there at the moment, and he'll just be carrying what he might need in an emergency - basically his armour and weapons and nothing else (if he had any healing potions from Julio's stash, chances are they'd all have some and Elan wouldn't have had to call on Dr Banjo).

He's probably still around the 250lb mark at the moment though (and I'd say NFL Linebacker build - say Brian Urlacher in his heyday, rather than an NBA player).


If you saw the conditions those wagons operated in, dragging is a fair metaphor (often up to axles in mud, up hills, no roads, over rocks, mushy ground, sand, etc)

But yeah, once he reaches San Fransisco and hits a decent road, he could tow two.

I've been to SF - given some of the gradients there, half a wagon would be pushing it (or pulling it, as the case may be :smallwink: ).

[sengmeng]

Bit odder than that. Strength is useless without leverage. No matter how strong he is, he can't pull harder than his body weight, unless he's anchored to the deck somehow - and the crewman specifically told him that tying the rope to the deck (that would include Roy hooking a foot on a railing or beam) would only lead to ripping the anchor point from the deck - the force on the rope is greater than the integral strength of the deck.

Same thing in the Six Million Dollar Man TV show - always showing Steve Austin tossing a man in the air because his arm was strong. Yep, but his spine, shoulder, and hips ain't that strong, and to the point, he couldn't lift the schmuck and throw him without leverage. He'd just kinda dance closer to the guy and tear his soft original content body apart.

Also: Winter Soldier, showing him ripping a car door off. Nope. Can't. He'd just yank his own body down. Another scene: hooking an airborne Falcon in full powered flight with a cable, and hauling him to a halt. NOPE. He'd just be yanked into the air, probably tearing his shoulder joint off. He hasn't the mass to stop a 200-300 pound man carrying a flight suit moving at tens of miles an hour (he was taking off). Picture the world's strongest man trying to catch a moving car: it's like that. Car wins.

It's magic. Your examples aren't. I certainly wouldn't make a magic belt of giant strength that didn't also stabilize you somehow as part of being magically strong. I think this comic is partly Rich showing how strong Roy is, and also showing us that there is more to it than raw strength. Remember, magic can work however the author decides.

If you want to use Marvel universe examples, think of the Hulk trying to pick up Mjolnir. It doesn't crush the deck when it lies on it, but when Hulk pulls, he pulls his own feet partly into the deck rather than lifting it. The hammer doesn't weigh 80 tons, it's magic.

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, that is glorious, Doug Lampert.

But my question is, how much is that in kilograms, assuming the same gravity as earth?

I assume from these numbers that a lb/pound is around 200 grams. Is that about right?

(I know physically how much a pound is and mentally how much stuff like boats and buildings weigh in kilograms, but I don't know the conversion. Similarly, I know physically a yard and mentally a meter, but I dont know the conversion other than a mile is 1608 meters or so, and is ????? feet.)

And I think a ton is half a thousand pounds/lb, or a thousand pounds is half a ton, I forget which, but I think its the former, given how Hadrosaurs could weigh over five tons. Yeah, that'd be stupid big if it was the latter.

Kilo = 2.2 pounds (earth gravity, at surface)
Yard = 0.9 meter.
Quart = 0.9 liter.

[Catbeller Mouse]

You've forgotten the other D&D physics thing....Roy probably weighs more than both of those sailors.

He's a high strength fighter, high con fighter in heavy armor with probably 100lb or more of crap in his backpack (which isn't drawn, but is there, trust me..the strongest dude in the party carries all the ratins, rope, crowbars etc that nobody else wants to, including likely Belkar's cooking pot). He probably clocks in at over 300lb in full gear (remember how the party couldn't move him when he was poisoned back in book 1). They are weedy sailors probably built for agility rather than bulk, and carrying no gear. Probably don't tip the scales at much more than 150.

So yeah, he's got similar mass, and therefore similar coefficient of friction on the deck etc. And his grip strength on the rope (ability to exert force, which determines friction...friction is essentially the force perpendicular to the rope times the coefficient of friction of the surfaces) is MUCH stronger.

I find his ability to casually stand there with the rope completely in tune with real world physics, except for, you know, the ability to casually lift 700lb over his head (assuming 24 strength....16-7 starting, 3-4 statbumps, belt of strength+4)

This has been very D&D educational. Well done, everyone!

(He's still gonna fly if that rope yanks viciously)

[Catbeller Mouse]

It's interesting to me how this current set of strips seems to be a "meet the cast" series after a fashion. It's obviously not ignoring what's come before, but so far we've seen how each of the main heroes reacts to the crisis or what they can individually do to help. It feels a little weird in a continuity-heavy series like OOTS, but at the same time it's not acting like we've never seen the characters before. Perhaps it's just a humorous refresher and palate-cleanser after the last very long and complex arc before we start what will likely be yet another long and complex arc. I'm not complaining, mind you, just an observation.

These past few pages will be the beginning of a new book. As Stan Lee says, remember some of the readers of your current story have never read the comic. First few pages: character introductions, some exposition, and make 'em feel at home. 'Nuff said.

[Catbeller Mouse]

He's got 400lb of copper in his pockets because in an off-screen moment Haley was out of extra dimensional space for loot and reverse pick-pocketed Roy and HE NEVER NOTICED because it does not affect him in any way to be carrying 400lb of extra stuff around.

Gesh, don't people even pay attention to the stuff that happens off panel?

If you're going to argue physics based on Roy's weight you have to know that weight INCLUDING everything he's carrying. And Roy could be lugging around 600+ lb of stuff for all we know (in fact given D&D characters normal behavior it's a near certainty that he is carrying that weight, see the part below about D&D characters being pack-rats).



Not true at all, see above. Roy succeeding at the strength check is all that's needed to hold the rope, but staying down is because he's just that heavy.

Seriously, Roy can carry 700 or so pounds and have it effect him no more than the armor he's already wearing. Hence since stuff like his backpack are there, but not shown, we have NO IDEA how much he weighs, but given that D&D characters never throw ANYTHING away unless the GM insists on checking their encumbrance and they are over, we can reasonably assume that Roy is at or near his limit.

He's got no trouble with anchoring himself, two guys with an aggregate mass of a trivial fraction of what he's carrying weren't pulled off, Roy won't be either.

Mass and weight not the same thing. Roy'd notice if he were trying to corner at speed, or swing on a rope, or bump into something.

[Shining Wrath]

Bit odder than that. Strength is useless without leverage. No matter how strong he is, he can't pull harder than his body weight, unless he's anchored to the deck somehow - and the crewman specifically told him that tying the rope to the deck (that would include Roy hooking a foot on a railing or beam) would only lead to ripping the anchor point from the deck - the force on the rope is greater than the integral strength of the deck.

Same thing in the Six Million Dollar Man TV show - always showing Steve Austin tossing a man in the air because his arm was strong. Yep, but his spine, shoulder, and hips ain't that strong, and to the point, he couldn't lift the schmuck and throw him without leverage. He'd just kinda dance closer to the guy and tear his soft original content body apart.

Also: Winter Soldier, showing him ripping a car door off. Nope. Can't. He'd just yank his own body down. Another scene: hooking an airborne Falcon in full powered flight with a cable, and hauling him to a halt. NOPE. He'd just be yanked into the air, probably tearing his shoulder joint off. He hasn't the mass to stop a 200-300 pound man carrying a flight suit moving at tens of miles an hour (he was taking off). Picture the world's strongest man trying to catch a moving car: it's like that. Car wins.

Friction supplies leverage; it's why I can open a door in my house without sliding along the floor.

If Roy is carrying lots of weight (many posts above discuss what he might be carrying), he could weigh 500 pounds right now ... and not notice, depending on where you put his strength after items et cetera. A 500 pound block with good traction (boots) has considerable leverage.

[Reddish Mage]

Last two panels keep it from being another gag strip.

Perhaps I'm being uncharitable, but am I detecting an edge to Roy here? There's not being particularly fussed about being rid of this sociopath, and there's glorying in his death. Or was it all supposed to be tongue in cheek?

And I'm saying that not out of concern for Belkar but out of concern for Roy.

I'm detecting a set up for Roy's failure to see the change in Belkar having significant consequences in future strip.

Incidentally, the failure of the Order to see the change in Belkar indicates the change in Belkar's character is real, not faked. It would be uninteresting if Belkar reveals the change was a fake the whole time, because no one in strip actually bought it, however if the change is real and the Order's failure to recognize that change leads to tragic or dramatic consequences, that will make quite the scene.

[DougTheHead]

About Roy's strength.

He probably started with 18, he adds 3 for levels, he adds 6 for the belt, thus Roy has 27 strength, and the scale is exponential for scores higher than 10 or so.

27 strength gives a light load of 346 lb. or less. At 346 pounds of stuff carried Roy doesn't notice the weight any more than you notice your car keys, carrying that much has no more game effect than his clothing. So for those wondering how come Roy isn't pulled off the deck, he's got 345lb of crap in his pockets because he forgot to empty them this morning and hasn't noticed the trivial added weight.

This is now the official explanation, as far as I am concerned.

[Reddish Mage]

This is now the official explanation, as far as I am concerned.

I'll go out on a limb and attempt to channel the Giant:

"I don't care nor did I think about the physics. Roy is as strong as one of the classes of giants and holding a rope seems to be something someone with a giant's strength could easily do. That was all that was behind my thought process there."

Edit: incidentally I do this because you called it an "official explanation" not an "extremely geeky extra-canonical attempt to reconcile the strip with the laws of physics that are canonically being told to go cry in the corner."

[Paseo H]

I'm detecting a set up for Roy's failure to see the change in Belkar having significant consequences in future strip.

Incidentally, the failure of the Order to see the change in Belkar indicates the change in Belkar's character is real, not faked. It would be uninteresting if Belkar reveals the change was a fake the whole time, because no one in strip actually bought it, however if the change is real and the Order's failure to recognize that change leads to tragic or dramatic consequences, that will make quite the scene.

Yes, he changed into a high functioning sociopath, i.e. pretending to give a damn about the rules, as opposed to the mid to low functioning sociopath he's been up till his 'vision quest.'

Or are we supposed to think him less a monster now that he has a soft spot for animals? It's touching, don't get me wrong, I'm just not sure how much credit we're supposed to give him for that.

Really, the problem here is that Roy's lowering himself.

[pendell]

I think youre giving Thor too much credit there :smallamused:

on an unrelated note, you are aware that you don't have to manually put your "respectfully" signature in every post, right? Youre clearly using the signature space, so you know it exists...

I don't mean to be rude, it just strikes me as odd that someone would go out of their way to not use a feature meant to do exactly what theyre doing.

I always sign "Respectfully," manually because it is NOT automatic, NOT meant to be a part of a signature. It's meant as a reminder to go back, review the post, and make sure that I can truthfully sign using that adverb. If I can't, I change it.

Or , alternatively, sometimes I'll switch it to another adverb if I believe the post still has merit but isn't really courteous. Typically, those get signed "tongue-in-cheek" because I'm being silly rather than respectful.

Twice I have been moved to sign posts "Angrily," , but wound up deleting them instead as not adding anything useful to the discussion.

At any rate, it is done manually because it is specifically intended NOT to be a rubberstamp, but a constant reminder and check on my behavior.




Huh... so long, “You were right about Durkon. I was wrong.” Hello, “I’m going to dance on your grave.” If Roy had said that about a hundred strips ago, I’d be laughing my head off. As it is, it’s a smile, but it’s an unsure one. Meh... I’ll chalk it up to trash talk. What’s a bit of casual ball-busting between co-workers?


Y'know what? I think this is foreshadowing.

Belkar continues to make every possible effort to ensure that no one on his team will listen to a word he says. Not only does this mean they won't listen to him about Durkula, it also means they will resist any evidence that Durkula is a problem, because believing that would mean believing that Belkar is right. And Roy will NEVER give Belkar that credit unless it is so painfully obvious that it can't be ignored.

Also .. Put me down for 10 zorkmids that the crewmember who went down to check on the passengers is drained almost to the last drop, then dispatched by conventional means. A vampire's gotta eat, y'know.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Keltest]

I always sign "Respectfully," manually because it is NOT automatic, NOT meant to be a part of a signature. It's meant as a reminder to go back, review the post, and make sure that I can truthfully sign using that adverb. If I can't, I change it.

Or , alternatively, sometimes I'll switch it to another adverb if I believe the post still has merit but isn't really courteous. Typically, those get signed "tongue-in-cheek" because I'm being silly rather than respectful.

Twice I have been moved to sign posts "Angrily," , but wound up deleting them instead as not adding anything useful to the discussion.

At any rate, it is done manually because it is specifically intended NOT to be a rubberstamp, but a constant reminder and check on my behavior.
fair enough. I know a few other people that could benefit from that behavior, at times myself included.





Y'know what? I think this is foreshadowing.

Belkar continues to make every possible effort to ensure that no one on his team will listen to a word he says. Not only does this mean they won't listen to him about Durkula, it also means they will resist any evidence that Durkula is a problem, because believing that would mean believing that Belkar is right. And Roy will NEVER give Belkar that credit unless it is so painfully obvious that it can't be ignored.

Also .. Put me down for 10 zorkmids that the crewmember who went down to check on the passengers is drained almost to the last drop, then dispatched by conventional means. A vampire's gotta eat, y'know.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Im not sure what to think about it really. Belkar has never been a paragon of good ideas, but its not like he only ever gives out bad ideas either. Certainly im inclined to believe that Haley, V, and Roy wont dismiss his claims out of hand if he actually has some proof that Durkon is malevolent (although Elan might just because its a story convention that heroes are always in denial about this stuff). But then, I guess the real question is what would Durkon be doing (besides communicating with Hel, perhaps) that Belkar could catch him in the middle of?

[pendell]

But then, I guess the real question is what would Durkon be doing (besides communicating with Hel, perhaps) that Belkar could catch him in the middle of?


The most obvious thing would be if Durkula was caught drinking an innocent. Problem: Given Belkar's abysmal will save , he's likely to come under the vampire's control very quickly.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[BaronOfHell]

Yes, he changed into a high functioning sociopath, i.e. pretending to give a damn about the rules, as opposed to the mid to low functioning sociopath he's been up till his 'vision quest.'


But that's just the thing though, Belkar may have whatever reason he has to behave in a better way, at the end of the day the fact is still he's behaving in a better way no matter what he's telling himself.

When the reason behind his behavior matters is when it has a chance to emerge, and I think that is when he is in a tough spot where we'll see if acts differently now compared to before he began this whole act of his. I think he's slowly changing himself.

[Keltest]

The most obvious thing would be if Durkula was caught drinking an innocent. Problem: Given Belkar's abysmal will save , he's likely to come under the vampire's control very quickly.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

which brings up the question, why would HPoH do that? Unless he was deliberately creating a vampire army (in which case subtlety is out the window anyway), theres no reason to go snacking on random people.

[Reddish Mage]

Yes, he changed into a high functioning sociopath, i.e. pretending to give a damn about the rules, as opposed to the mid to low functioning sociopath he's been up till his 'vision quest.'

Or are we supposed to think him less a monster now that he has a soft spot for animals? It's touching, don't get me wrong, I'm just not sure how much credit we're supposed to give him for that.

Really, the problem here is that Roy's lowering himself.

Using terms like "high functioning" and "low functioning" sociopath are far too clinical (and debatable anyway, I know clinicians and criminologists can't agree on these labels meanings or the underlying pathology) for a comic strip by an author who isn't thinking about such things. If you mean Belkar is still evil and will do undeniably evil things such as kill for fun and harm the innocent, I fundamentally disagree. I'll say it, I think Belkar's change is real, it is for good, and Belkar is no longer evil, and hasn't been acting evil for quite a while. The offense at the vampire Durkon has become is but another point in a long chain of development. Belkar is now a team player, he has empathy for other creatures, and he hasn't harmed the innocent in quite some time.

[hamishspence]

I'll say it, I think Belkar's change is real, it is for good, and Belkar is no longer evil, and hasn't been acting evil for quite a while.

Yukyuk might differ, if one were to contact his spirit to ask him. :smallamused:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0835.html

[Paseo H]

"Hasn't hurt the innocent in a long time" is flat out wrong, on account of the fact that it hasn't been a long time. Less than a month since Familicide, possibly less than a week since fighting the Vector Cabal.

Regardless, even if I granted that it's been a long enough while to give notice to, the fact remains that he straightened up his act on account of the fact that Dream Shojo basically said that they'd put him down like a mad dog if he kept acting like a mad dog. So he's learning how to pretend to be civilized rather than feral and acting on impulse. That doesn't make him not evil, his newfound soft spot for animals aside. That makes him well behaved.

[colanderman]

The ship's going down because the engines have failed, just like the Enterprise. Does this mean we're in for Star Trek jokes?

scene cuts to everyone crowded in a room full of fine china

*bandana*: Detach the saucer section!

[Doug Lampert]

Mass and weight not the same thing. Roy'd notice if he were trying to corner at speed, or swing on a rope, or bump into something.

Friction forces go up approximately linearly with weight, which is in turn exactly proportionate to mass.

But Roy DOES NOT NOTICE 300+lb of extra weight, because that also means he's got 300+lb of extra weight giving him friction to accelerate with. His strength proportionate to his mass carrying that 300+lb is probably greater than mine standing in my clothes (he can still lift over 3x his total mass including carried stuff, so he's nowhere close to muscle strain), since his friction has gone up with mass it follows that he can corner FASTER and BETTER than I can.

You're assuming heavy means ponderous, but that's an artifact of heavy meaning hard to move, simply not true for Roy's muscles.

Similarly if he swings from a rope, that may rip the rope out of its anchor, but otherwise his strength in proportion to the mass swinging is greater than a normal person's even if he's carrying a hundred kilograms+ of extra mass. That his mass has gone up is irrelevant until it reaches the point that he rips the ground apart by walking on it or otherwise causes structural failures in nearby materials.

The thing he bumps will notice it. Roy can casually break things, but that's true whether or not he's carrying 300 extra pounds, and the 300 extra pounds won't handicap him in any physical activity whatsoever, he's just that strong. Nor is leverage or traction any more of a problem for him than for anyone else just because he's carrying that weight, his traction and leverage both go up proportionately for the extra mass and it isn't close to enough to cause balance problems due to muscle strain.

[PsyBomb]

I always sign "Respectfully," manually because it is NOT automatic, NOT meant to be a part of a signature. It's meant as a reminder to go back, review the post, and make sure that I can truthfully sign using that adverb. If I can't, I change it.

Or , alternatively, sometimes I'll switch it to another adverb if I believe the post still has merit but isn't really courteous. Typically, those get signed "tongue-in-cheek" because I'm being silly rather than respectful.

Twice I have been moved to sign posts "Angrily," , but wound up deleting them instead as not adding anything useful to the discussion.

At any rate, it is done manually because it is specifically intended NOT to be a rubberstamp, but a constant reminder and check on my behavior.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I am sigging this.

EDIT: Had to cut most of it due to character limits, but the point stands

[Porthos]

I feel like he should have had the "i am not amused" low scowl that his little head has here on the forums when he said that. Without it, it seems like hes saying it mildly and matter-of-factly, as if its just a fact of life that hes reminding Belkar of.

:roy: "I'm going to dance on your grave, you know."

I read it as Roy being in Deadpan Snarker mode. Pardon the pun.

Roy is often snarky. But occasionally he serves it dry. Very very dry. And the best way to sell dry snark is to say it without any emotion whatsoever.

So in this case, after being casually insulted by Belkar, he fires it right back in Belkar's face. But instead of doing it comedically, he does it in a musing sort of way. That suits Roy's personality to a great degree.

As presented, at worst it's two teammates bantering. Adding a scowl actually makes it 'real' and not banter, IMO, if you see what I mean.

[DaggerPen]

But Roy DOES NOT NOTICE 300+lb of extra weight, because that also means he's got 300+lb of extra weight giving him friction to accelerate with. His strength proportionate to his mass carrying that 300+lb is probably greater than mine standing in my clothes (he can still lift over 3x his total mass including carried stuff, so he's nowhere close to muscle strain), since his friction has gone up with mass it follows that he can corner FASTER and BETTER than I can.

Actually, I think mass factors out entirely, doesn't it? Assuming that he's running at a velocity v and then stops (we can factor in acceleration in his new direction as part of the cornering without changing anything, I just don't wanna deal with vectors rn), his distance to stop is:

d = -v^2/(2 * a)

F = ma = u_k * N = u_k * m * g

a = F/m = u_k * g

d = -v^2/(2 * u_k * g)

So mass isn't a factor in the stopping distance here.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I said you missed the part where Durkon had to chant "Control Weather" over and over for 10 minutes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html)

A spell based joke is either rarely or never repeated (why does V never cast Evan's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion any more? Seems like an effective spell, to me). Control Weather does pretty much work like that, assuming that it was spring when it was cast. You can argue the amount of time he had to chant it, but that will never be able to be known, so we can just let that go. And I'll grant that the 10 minute delay was ignored, but, you know, humor trumps the rules over and over. And you can argue that thunder doesn't shatter treants (animated trees, whatever), but that's not the fault of the spell so much as just more author license with the effect of the lightning.
I was joking. I perfectly understand why Durkon couldn't cast Control Weather, and since that strip had a good quote of someone refusing to use the rules, I decided to reference it.

And Vaarsuvius will never use the tentacles again, for two reasons. One, it was decided after the fact that they had barred Conjuration, and because two the Giant has decided that in this case there is a very good reason to never use it ever again.


I read it as Roy being in Deadpan Snarker mode. Pardon the pun.

Roy is often snarky. But occasionally he serves it dry. Very very dry. And the best way to sell dry snark is to say it without any emotion whatsoever.

So in this case, after being casually insulted by Belkar, he fires it right back in Belkar's face. But instead of doing it comedically, he does it in a musing sort of way. That suits Roy's personality to a great degree.

As presented, at worst it's two teammates bantering. Adding a scowl actually makes it 'real' and not banter, IMO, if you see what I mean.
This is how I feel we well. If you see something deeper, you are reading too much into it, IMO.

[Rogar Demonblud]

"Hasn't hurt the innocent in a long time" is flat out wrong, on account of the fact that it hasn't been a long time. Less than a month since Familicide, possibly less than a week since fighting the Vector Cabal.

A few days, given what the HPoH said a couple of strips back. Add in that the only innocent bystanders are the ship's crew and you'll have to consider that Belkar simply hasn't had a suitable opportunity to run amok yet.

We'll really know the next time he encounters a kobold.

[Paseo H]

This is how I feel we well. If you see something deeper, you are reading too much into it, IMO.

I'm not quite sure how to put it without sounding like either an alarmist, a Belkar defender, or demonizing Roy, because I don't intend either. Thing is, he did have it in mind to strike Belkar down fairly recently, during a heated moment. So my fear is that this has all been too much for Roy and it might be darkening his outlook a bit.

[Tragak]

scene cuts to everyone crowded in a room full of fine china

*bandana*: Detach the saucer section! :smallconfused: … I'm sorry, we're revoking your internet license. (https://xkcd.com/410/)

[Amphiox]

I wonder what the chances are that the strong female character The Giant said he had already introduced who was going to get more focus on in this latest book might be Bandana?

And perhaps, from a meta-level, we ought to lay to rest the idea that "fighters don't have magic". For all intents and purposes, they have magic, and like that of Sorcerors, it is in their bones, which is the only consistent explanation for how hard their bones are to break (from anything) as they level up.

It's just that their *control* of that magic is, shall we say, less fine-grained that that of a spellcaster!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm not quite sure how to put it without sounding like either an alarmist, a Belkar defender, or demonizing Roy, because I don't intend either. Thing is, he did have it in mind to strike Belkar down fairly recently, during a heated moment. So my fear is that this has all been too much for Roy and it might be darkening his outlook a bit.
All right. I can see your perspective, although I don't think I agree. You're entitled to your own opinion, after all. :smallsmile:

[BrotherMirtillo]

I wonder what the chances are that the strong female character The Giant said he had already introduced who was going to get more focus on in this latest book might be Bandana?

Who says it'll stop at only one?


*groaaaaaaan*

I'd say that one's going in the sig.

[BaronOfHell]

I thought it would be Lien.

[Ramien]

I wonder what the chances are that the strong female character The Giant said he had already introduced who was going to get more focus on in this latest book might be Bandana?

And perhaps, from a meta-level, we ought to lay to rest the idea that "fighters don't have magic". For all intents and purposes, they have magic, and like that of Sorcerors, it is in their bones, which is the only consistent explanation for how hard their bones are to break (from anything) as they level up.

It's just that their *control* of that magic is, shall we say, less fine-grained that that of a spellcaster!

Really? I'm thinking Durkon's mom. She seems tough enough to just smack the HPoH right out of her son.

[eras10]

I haven't found strips since the break to be overly interesting. The Durkon's brain ones were okay. The ship ones have been ... slow. Even relative to typical book opening strip sets.

[Paseo H]

I haven't found strips since the break to be overly interesting. The Durkon's brain ones were okay. The ship ones have been ... slow. Even relative to typical book opening strip sets.

I expected it to be this way. Generally speaking, arc beginnings don't hit the ground running. It'll take a little bit of time to pick up steam.

[Sartharina]

Also .. Put me down for 10 zorkmids that the crewmember who went down to check on the passengers is drained almost to the last drop, then dispatched by conventional means. A vampire's gotta eat, y'know. I'll take that bet.
1. HPoH is not below decks anyway
2. The party has ensured he has plenty of food without having to resort to blowing his cover.
3. Blowing his cover in such a manner would turn the entire party against him and see him destroyed, along with Hel's plans.

[Amphiox]

Really? I'm thinking Durkon's mom. She seems tough enough to just smack the HPoH right out of her son.

My interpretation of The Giants statement was that the character had already been introduced in a minor role, and Durkon's mom had not been at the time, unless you count that one statement by Durkon really early on about his mom teaching him to bury his feelings deep down.

Lien would be a candidate too, but Lien already had a fairly prominent role, and was already established as a strong female character, and it seemed to me that the statement implied that the "new" character would be a new "strong" character, ie one whose strength we had not yet seen.

Of course it could easily be all three, or even more (like Serini might make an appearance too, for example)....

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I believe the quote about new major female characters said that "one is already here", so one of those characters we had met by this point. This could be Lien and Bandana, but since Bandana is much closer to the group, I think she's more likely to join it. This still allows for introduction of new characters, like Durkon's mom.

[Dracon1us]

I haven't found strips since the break to be overly interesting. The Durkon's brain ones were okay. The ship ones have been ... slow. Even relative to typical book opening strip sets.

I think that our giant for now is more focused on the art side....

[Concept]

I am sigging this.

Wait, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

[Shining Wrath]

I'll take that bet.
1. HPoH is not below decks anyway
2. The party has ensured he has plenty of food without having to resort to blowing his cover.
3. Blowing his cover in such a manner would turn the entire party against him and see him destroyed, along with Hel's plans.

HPoH has disappeared from between Roy and Belkar. I do not know what he is doing, but I very much doubt it is benign.

[F.Harr]

Learning how to do a nice jig might be worth it.

[Falker]

I believe the quote about new major female characters said that "one is already here", so one of those characters we had met by this point. This could be Lien and Bandana, but since Bandana is much closer to the group, I think she's more likely to join it. This still allows for introduction of new characters, like Durkon's mom.

I'm the only one that has thought of Helga? She's clearly strong, have a bond (or mutual lust) with Durkon, and just had a short time in comics.

EDIT: Hilgya. I need to check the character's name before posting.

[Doug Lampert]

Actually, I think mass factors out entirely, doesn't it? Assuming that he's running at a velocity v and then stops (we can factor in acceleration in his new direction as part of the cornering without changing anything, I just don't wanna deal with vectors rn), his distance to stop is:

d = -v^2/(2 * a)

F = ma = u_k * N = u_k * m * g

a = F/m = u_k * g

d = -v^2/(2 * u_k * g)

So mass isn't a factor in the stopping distance here.

It's questionable whether I make full use of the maximum possible friction, I'm not almost arbitrarily strong in relation to the mass I'm carrying.

Additionally friction isn't quite linear with mass, this is why you will often add extra mass to the back of a car when driving on slippery roads to improve traction. Extra mass tends to slightly improve traction to weight, especially on a wet surface such as an airship deck in a storm.

At a more extreme value extra mass starts to destroy the structural integrity of the material you're in contact with and friction goes down again, this is more likely to be a problem for main battle tanks than for cars or people, but then I hear that Roy is a tank :roy:. But since we don't see splinters where Roy is walking on the deck it's likely that his mass increases friction at slightly more than a linear rate (and probably scuffs the deck a bit).

But yes, with the assumption that my strength is sufficient that my breaking distance is based purely on friction and the additional assumption that friction is directly proportional to the normal force then the masses cancel out completely. I claim Roy can outmaneuver me because I think both of those statements are merely good approximations, and that the "reality" would slightly favor Roy were he real.

[DaggerPen]

It's questionable whether I make full use of the maximum possible friction, I'm not almost arbitrarily strong in relation to the mass I'm carrying.

Additionally friction isn't quite linear with mass, this is why you will often add extra mass to the back of a car when driving on slippery roads to improve traction. Extra mass tends to slightly improve traction to weight, especially on a wet surface such as an airship deck in a storm.

At a more extreme value extra mass starts to destroy the structural integrity of the material you're in contact with and friction goes down again, this is more likely to be a problem for main battle tanks than for cars or people, but then I hear that Roy is a tank :roy:. But since we don't see splinters where Roy is walking on the deck it's likely that his mass increases friction at slightly more than a linear rate (and probably scuffs the deck a bit).

But yes, with the assumption that my strength is sufficient that my breaking distance is based purely on friction and the additional assumption that friction is directly proportional to the normal force then the masses cancel out completely. I claim Roy can outmaneuver me because I think both of those statements are merely good approximations, and that the "reality" would slightly favor Roy were he real.

I thought that most of the friction-increasing effect w.r.t extra mass on cars was due to the wheel wells coming in contact with the wheel more, something that wouldn't factor in with Roy? I know that frictional forces aren't strictly linear, but I thought that in the weight ranges we were talking about it was mostly linear. We haven't actually dealt with non-linear frictional forces in any of my classes, though, so I'll take your word for it. After all, even a small increase does technically make him able to corner better, as you said. :smallsmile:

[gerryq]

Or are we supposed to think him less a monster now that he has a soft spot for animals?

Vicious small animals, at that.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm the only one that has thought of Helga? She's clearly strong, have a bond (or mutual lust) with Durkon, and just had a short time in comics.

If you're talking about Hilgya, then I have to say I disagree. I think she will not be returning, and even if she does, she is not the person who "is already here", since she's not here. She disappeared, essentially, and has not returned.

[Doug Lampert]

I thought that most of the friction-increasing effect w.r.t extra mass on cars was due to the wheel wells coming in contact with the wheel more, something that wouldn't factor in with Roy? I know that frictional forces aren't strictly linear, but I thought that in the weight ranges we were talking about it was mostly linear. We haven't actually dealt with non-linear frictional forces in any of my classes, though, so I'll take your word for it. After all, even a small increase does technically make him able to corner better, as you said. :smallsmile:

I suspect you're right that it's very nearly linear. The coefficients are usually presented as linear for solid contact and walking humans have a very high ground pressure (small contact area).

Water over a porous surface like wood should give a slight advantage to being heavier, but my guess is that everyone in human range is heavy enough to get most of that advantage.

But more significantly, unless I'm on a really poor surface or wearing slick shoes, I'm not strong enough for it to be more or less guaranteed that friction is the limit on how fast I can corner (I'm rather unpleasantly surprised if it is). Roy is probably in hob-nails, he's got good traction and he's strong enough that traction probably is his limit.

[DaggerPen]

I suspect you're right that it's very nearly linear. The coefficients are usually presented as linear for solid contact and walking humans have a very high ground pressure (small contact area).

Water over a porous surface like wood should give a slight advantage to being heavier, but my guess is that everyone in human range is heavy enough to get most of that advantage.

But more significantly, unless I'm on a really poor surface or wearing slick shoes, I'm not strong enough for it to be more or less guaranteed that friction is the limit on how fast I can corner (I'm rather unpleasantly surprised if it is). Roy is probably in hob-nails, he's got good traction and he's strong enough that traction probably is his limit.

Oh, that's a point. I keep forgetting that athletics are in fact a factor when it comes to turning on a dime. Too many spherical chickens in vacuums, I think. :P

[BriarHobbit]

Heh. Roy is strong as a pier.