fleshraker and venomfire

[Agamemmnoth]

So I just got a fleshraker as a companion and I have a question about it's interaction with venomfire.
the dc is pretty low to resist the poison. dc 14. Do they have to fail the poison for venomfire to take affect? I'm assuming they do have to fail in order to get hit. while that may be really op now at lv 4 that will quickly outlive it's opness later on unless venomfire happens even if they pass their fort.

[Vaz]

Venomfire defines it as "use", and "use" of poison is referred to as in whenever it is used for purpose - i.e smeared on a weapon which is then used to attack with.

So, basically, you only need to hit with it. It gets quite OP even at higher levels, where a full attacking Fleshraker can deal +80d6 damage. Add on Thunderstep Boots bound to its Feet Chakra, and it's dealing a DC10+Con (you're a druid, you can easily ramp that up) to cause Stun on a Charge.

[Agamemmnoth]

Venomfire defines it as "use", and "use" of poison is referred to as in whenever it is used for purpose - i.e smeared on a weapon which is then used to attack with.

So, basically, you only need to hit with it. It gets quite OP even at higher levels, where a full attacking Fleshraker can deal +80d6 damage. Add on Thunderstep Boots bound to its Feet Chakra, and it's dealing a DC10+Con (you're a druid, you can easily ramp that up) to cause Stun on a Charge.


So basically there is no save vs it as long as my Dino hits, it afflicts venomfire when cast on it? HA! Now THAT is what I'm talking about. I had to wash the dm's car for that pet and that will be WELL worth it.

what are you talking about as far as feet chakra? This is my first campaign. I didn't think companions could wear armor.

[Agamemmnoth]

now I guess if I wild shaped into that we'd have the perfect melee wrecking team.

[HighWater]

Let's see. The spell doesn't mention the poison save. So the save probably doesn't matter. To support this: the creature you cast this on gets a save (harmless), the spell has a SECOND saving throw line that says "No", which presumably tells you the target of your venomfired creature doesn't get a save against acid damage.
Furthermore, it's a level 3 or 4 spell, which is pretty high (get's online at level 7 got Cl/Dr, much much higher for Rangers) if it'd only work on a Fort save DC 14.
It does 1d6*cl damage, but it generally requires a normal melee attack, rather than a melee touch attack, which allows for armor, shield and natural armor to stop it. (which makes it worse than most touch spells)
Spell Resistance applies as "Harmless", it's unclear whether Spell Resistance applies for the target of your Venomfired creature, but probably not as SR doesn't work against spells that are already in place. (awesome)
It lasts hours/level and doesn't seem to be discharged when used! (Neat!) That also means you get to cast other spells while your creature does it's thing (Which makes it better than most touch spells).

Conclusion: Probably this spell makes it so the venom on your Freshraker does 1d6*cl acid damage + the normal Fortitude Save Dex Damage.
The only way creatures can avoid taking the acid damage is by being imune to the acid, or by having no damage dealt by the melee attack through, for instance, damage reduction.

Injury

This poison must be delivered through a wound. If a creature has sufficient damage reduction to avoid taking any damage from the attack, the poison does not affect it.

Verdict: spell is pretty nasty. Very prettily nasty really... You may be in danger of getting a book thrown at you, depending on the level of "op" for your campaign, or just a serious nerf to the spell (it's also uncapped, mega-nasty). Consult your DM as to what he/she thinks of this spell.

[Agamemmnoth]

Let's see. The spell doesn't mention the poison save. So the save probably doesn't matter. To support this: the creature you cast this on gets a save (harmless), the spell has a SECOND saving throw line that says "No", which presumably tells you the target of your venomfired creature doesn't get a save against acid damage.
Furthermore, it's a level 3 or 4 spell, which is pretty high (get's online at level 7 got Cl/Dr, much much higher for Rangers) if it'd only work on a Fort save DC 14.
It does 1d6*cl damage, but it generally requires a normal melee attack, rather than a melee touch attack, which allows for armor, shield and natural armor to stop it. (which makes it worse than most touch spells)
Spell Resistance applies as "Harmless", it's unclear whether Spell Resistance applies for the target of your Venomfired creature, but probably not as SR doesn't work against spells that are already in place. (awesome)
It lasts hours/level and doesn't seem to be discharged when used! (Neat!) That also means you get to cast other spells while your creature does it's thing (Which makes it better than most touch spells).

Conclusion: Probably this spell makes it so the venom on your Freshraker does 1d6*cl acid damage + the normal Fortitude Save Dex Damage.
The only way creatures can avoid taking the acid damage is by being imune to the acid, or by having no damage dealt by the melee attack through, for instance, damage reduction.


Verdict: spell is pretty nasty. Very prettily nasty really... You may be in danger of getting a book thrown at you, depending on the level of "op" for your campaign, or just a serious nerf to the spell (it's also uncapped, mega-nasty). Consult your DM as to what he/she thinks of this spell.

Anyways to boost it's bab as we level? I'm thinking Dino and me both team up on a venonmfire melee rampage. To bad I can't give him the greenbound template like my SNA. :smallbiggrin:

[Vaz]

It gets bonus HD, which improve its BAB. It takes a -3, IIRC, so it can only get +10HD, but by taking Multiattack, you effectively give it +3 to attack with every attack. You can also Greater Magic Fang it as well. On top of that, Animal Growth gives it a Strength bonus of +8, basically +4 to attack.

Alternatively, Power Attack and Shocktrooper chain is fantastic.

You could go the other way as well - give it Weapon Finesse, and reduce its size.

[Agamemmnoth]

It gets bonus HD, which improve its BAB. It takes a -3, IIRC, so it can only get +10HD, but by taking Multiattack, you effectively give it +3 to attack with every attack. You can also Greater Magic Fang it as well. On top of that, Animal Growth gives it a Strength bonus of +8, basically +4 to attack.

Alternatively, Power Attack and Shocktrooper chain is fantastic.

You could go the other way as well - give it Weapon Finesse, and reduce its size.

I wasn't aware that increasing it's hd gave increased it's bab. Thanks for the feat tips.

[HighWater]

I wasn't aware that increasing it's hd gave increased it's bab. Thanks for the feat tips.

It basically gives all the monster advancements HD would give any other monster, except for changes in size. Edit: look up Urpriest's Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), and of course the Monster Manual.

Speaking of changing in size, Share Spells lets you cast spells on your AnCo that would normally be prohibited to Animals, such as Enlarge Person, provided you find a way to be able to cast them. This means that you can buff it a lot! If you stay at 5ft of eachother at all times, you even only have to cast the buffs once, thanks to share spell to let them apply both to you and the AnCo. Bull's Strength will stack with Animal Growth.

Basically anything that grants you extra strength will both up your chances to hit and up your chances of bypassing DR, allowing the acid to eviscerate the opponents.

If your tactic negates the usefulness of other players, be prepared to suddenly face a lot of acid-resistant enemies though. Or the aforementioned book-to-the-face.

[Vaz]

Just noticed your comment about the feat chakra.

Chakra's were a concept introduced in Magic of Incarnum, which is basically a system where you get a number of "beans" called Essentia, which you can allocate freely between a number of "jars" called receptacles. One such receptacle is called a soulmeld, which provides a small bonus, which can also be "bound" to something called a chakra, which is basically a body slot relating to magic items. Binding it to a chakra grants each soulmeld a particular boost, which increases with the amount of "essentia".

It's quite wordy and hard to get your head around the system at first, and takes some careful reading and slow playing while you get used to it. I wouldn't advise starting on it if you're relatively new though.

[Zombimode]

I had to wash the dm's car for that pet and that will be WELL worth it.

I don't know about you, but this doesn't strike me as a healthy player-GM relationship.

[animewatcha]

The DM could have known about the fleshraker, and wanted to see just how much OP wanted to use it.

[Agamemmnoth]

I don't know about you, but this doesn't strike me as a healthy player-GM relationship.

HA! he's been a great friend for a while. We're always pulling crap like that on each other. though he's been gaming forever. I always thought it was weird until I sat in on a campaign one night. Then I invited my girl over there and we both got hooked. So we joined the next campaign he had.

[Agamemmnoth]

The DM could have known about the fleshraker, and wanted to see just how much OP wanted to use it.

yeah he knows about it.

[shadowseve]

I wish I could have a fleshraker..... that would end my debate on weather or not to eventually take a dire bear as a companion.

[TrueJordan]

Serpent Kingdoms is full of the most broken crap ever. As soon as you get shapechange, with a creature using that book, you can basically become a god.

[ddude987]

I should mention as well as bonus HD and fun things, the save on its poison goes up. It is calculated as 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Con Mod so that means as the druid levels up, the fleshrakers poison DC increases. Its pretty important to remember that if you want the poison to be effective later on more than natural 1's. Also the feats ability focus and virulent poison will each increase the fleshrakers poison DC by 2. Good feats to grab on a fleshraker.

[Deaxsa]

Wait, they get to poison something with their TAIL? AND their claws? not only is it OP, it makes little to no sense! :smallconfused: (Seriously, though, I understand bite, and even claw, but TAIL?! What?) :smalltongue:

[Vaz]

Scorpions exist. Admittedly the Art doesn't show that.

[LTwerewolf]

Wait, they get to poison something with their TAIL? AND their claws? not only is it OP, it makes little to no sense! :smallconfused: (Seriously, though, I understand bite, and even claw, but TAIL?! What?) :smalltongue:

I assume for the same reason touching a poison dart frog on the back can kill you.

[TuggyNE]

Serpent Kingdoms is full of the most broken crap ever. As soon as you get shapechange, with a creature using that book, you can basically become a god.

Wait, venomfire is from SK too? Seriously considering moving it ahead of the DMG on my mental list of "most broken garbage in 3.x". (Still far behind the PHB, of course, but ain't no one can mess with the best.)