Non-Outsider Demons and Devils

[Afgncaap5]

I've been curious about a few oddities about the Demon classification for monsters, particularly that the creature type doesn't specifically say "Outsider" for them. They need to be evil, sure, and they need to be from the Abyss, but outside of that I can't see anything requiring them to be outsiders. More to the point, there are Retrievers, Construct-type creatures from the Abyss that are declared to be Demons by the Monster Manual.

Am I misreading something here? I know that Pathfinder changed Retrievers to just be constructs not associated with Demons, but I kind of like the idea that something can be a demon if it's evil, monstrous and reviled enough (or even just monstrous enough.) I can sort of see Baphomet making giant versions of Shrikes that get called Demons even though they're just in the Animal type, for instance.

[Deadline]

Well, if you've got 56,000 gp to spare, you can have a ritual from Savage Species performed to grant you a subtype. It doesn't grant you any of the traits associated with the subtype, but at least it's something. You could do it once for each subtype you wanted, so you could be a Humanoid (Human, Chaotic, Evil, Tanar'ri).

[atemu1234]

Well, if you've got 56,000 gp to spare, you can have a ritual from Savage Species performed to grant you a subtype. It doesn't grant you any of the traits associated with the subtype, but at least it's something. You could do it once for each subtype you wanted, so you could be a Humanoid (Human, Chaotic, Evil, Tanar'ri).

Where where you when we were trying to figure out how to make a Fiend of Possession an early-level viable Prc?

[KillianHawkeye]

Where where you when we were trying to figure out how to make a Fiend of Possession an early-level viable Prc?

At 56,000 gp per subtype, I don't think the ritual helps to make anything "early-level viable." :smallconfused:

[Deadline]

At 56,000 gp per subtype, I don't think the ritual helps to make anything "early-level viable." :smallconfused:

Indeed. Earliest possible WBL that you could hit that mark would be 11th level. Your best bet to "early-level" entry for Fiend of Possession is a Kaorti.