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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class 3.5 Magic-User, A Multi-Purpose Base Class [PEACH]



Gildedragon
2014-05-05, 08:35 PM
Let me start with why I created this class, and the role I hope it fills:

This class stems from a general love of prepared casting but a frustration with having to prepare particular quantities of each spell and allot them independently, as well as a distaste for sorcerer's limited versatility. To this was added an overall dissatisfaction with the separation of spell lists.
I am of a mind that spell and feat choices ought be as free as possible to let players better fit their character to a concept, and this class is an attempt to express that.

Furthermore this class comes with certain handy rules and fixes already implemented that I see as overall useful in terms of bookkeeping and often implemented.

This class is based off the Generic Spellcaster base class, and thus ought to supplant all Full Casters, leaving partial casters as PRCs.

Without Further Ado:


The Magic User


Abilities: Intelligence determines how many spells a Magic User learns as well as how many they may ready in a single day, whereas Constitution determines how many spells they may cast on a given day, as well as bolster their hitpoints and fortitude save. Dexterity is useful to a Magic User as they are often restricted in the sort of armor they may use.

Alignment: Any

Hit Dice: D4

Saves: One good save (must be either Will or Fortitude) and two poor saves.

Class Skills: Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Lucid Dreaming (Wis), Perform (Cha), Spellcraft (Int), Speak Language, Truespeak (Int)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier)x4
Skill Points at each additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Magic User is proficient any five simple weapons, and 1 martial weapon, but is not proficient in the use of any shields or armor. Armor of any type interferes with the Magic User’s movements, which may cause spells with somatic components to fail.

Special: For the purposes of qualifying for prestige classes, feats, or the use of items, a Magic User can be considered a member of any prepared or spontaneous spellcasting base-class of a level equal to their effective Magic User level. In the case that a class, feat, or effect advances two classes, the Magic User class is only advanced once.

Spellcasting: A Magic User spontaneously casts spells from a limited list of spells they have ‘readied’ from their spellbook. To ‘ready’ a spell a Magic User must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + spell level. A Magic User’s spells are both Arcane and Divine, and thus subject to Arcane Spell Failure. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Magic User’s spell is based off their intelligence.
The Magic User can only cast a certain number of spells of each spell-level per day: their daily base allotment is given in Table 2. In addition they receive bonus spells per day if they have a high Constitution score (or Charisma, if the Constitution score is lower than 6).

A Magic User can know any number of spells. However they can ready only a few spells, the daily base allotment for that is given on Table 2. Every day the Magic User must select which spells they have readied by getting eight hours of rest, and spending one hour studying their spellbook. While studying the Magic User chooses what spells they have readied. In addition, a Magic User with a high Intelligence score can ready bonus spells per day of levels they can cast (see Table 3).


Metamagic: If the Magic User knows any metamagic feats they can choose whether to apply them at the time of readying or at the time of casting (increasing the casting time as standard). For example, a Magic User could choose to ready a Silent Magic Weapon using a 2nd-level spell readied slot. Any time they choose to cast the spell it would use up a 2nd-level spell slot. In this case Silent Magic Weapon would not experience an increased caster time. Alternatively, the Magic User could choose to prepare Magic Weapon in a 1st-level spell slot, and apply the Silent Spell metamagic on the fly, having it use a 2nd-level spell slot and experiencing a casting time increase. Because of this, the Quicken Spell metamagic can only be applied while the spell is being readied, unless the Metamagic Specialist feat (see below) is taken.

Spellbook: A Magic User must study their spellbook each day to ready their spells. They cannot ready any spell not recorded in their spellbook, except for their starting cantrips, which Magic Users know from memory. A Magic User cannot cast a spell with an alignment descriptor they do not posess.
A Magic User begins play with a spellbook containing six 0-level spells, plus read magic, plus three 1st-level spells of their choice. For each point of Intelligence Modifier the Magic User begins play with an additional 1st-level spell of their choice. At each new Magic User level they gain two new spells of any spell level or levels that they can cast (based on their new Magic User level) for their spellbook. At any time a Magic User can also add spells found in other spellbooks to their own. The spells the Magic User learns may be drawn from any caster list. If the spell is available to multiple classes at different spell levels then the Magic User uses the wizard list to determine its level, if it is not available to wizard it uses the cleric list's level, otherwise the level on the druid list, otherwise they use the highest level it is available at to determine the level of the spell.


Bonus Feats:Bonus Feats: At first level the Magic User gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat. At second level and every three levels thereafter (fifth, eighth, eleventh, etc) the Magic User gains a bonus feat from the following list they qualify for: Any Metamagic feat, any Item Creation feat, any Reserve feat, any Divine feat, any Wild feat, any dragonmark feat, Arcane Manipulation, Easy Metamagic, Spell Focus, Spell Mastery, Versatile Spell Caster, Obtain Familiar (or any alternative class feature that can be exchanged for a familiar), Improved Familiar, Domain Power*, Rebuke*,or Metamagic Specialist*

* indicates a feat described below

Spellbook Casting: Starting at 3rd level a Magic User can choose to cast spells directly from their spellbook, similar to casting from a scroll, a number of times per day equal to half their intelligence modifier. Such spell functions as if normally cast (using the Magic User’s caster level, and any benefits the Magic User would ordinarily gain from feats, places or items apply to it). To cast a spell in this fashion the Magic User must succeed on a spellcraft check of DC 20+the spell level; a roll of 1 imposes a -10 penalty on the check. A caster may not take 10 on the spellcraft roll.
The attempt, regardless of the success of the spellcraft check, deals the Magic User 1d4 points of damage per spell level and deletes the spell from the spellbook. Failure means the Magic User suffers a mishap of some sort (as if casting from a scroll), and failure by 10 or more increases the damage to 2d6 per spell level.





Level
BAB
Good Save
Bad Saves
Special


1
+0
+2
+0
Spellcasting, Eschew Materials, Spellbook


2
+1
+3
+0
Bonus Feat


3
+1
+3
+1
Spellbook Casting


4
+2
+4
+1



5
+2
+4
+1
Bonus Feat


6
+3
+5
+2



7
+3
+5
+2



8
+4
+6
+2
Bonus Feat


9
+4
+6
+3



10
+5
+7
+3



11
+5
+7
+3
Bonus Feat


12
+6/+1
+8
+4



13
+6/+1
+8
+4



14
+7/+2
+9
+4
Bonus Feat


15
+7/+2
+9
+5



16
+8/+3
+10
+5



17
+8/+3
+10
+5
Bonus Feat


18
+9/+4
+11
+6



19
+9/+4
+11
+6



20
+10/+5
+12
+6
Bonus Feat






Level
0th (Cantrips)
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1
at will/3
1/1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2
at will/4
2/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3
at will/4
3/2
1/1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4
at will/4
4/3
2/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5
at will/4
4/3
3/2
1/1
-
-
-
-
-
-


6
at will/4
4/3
4/3
2/2
-
-
-
-
-
-


7
at will/4
4/3
4/3
3/2
1/1
-
-
-
-
-


8
at will/4
4/34/3
4/3
2/2
-
-
-
-
-


9
at will/4
4/34/3
4/3
3/2
1/1
-
-
-
-


10
at will/4
4/34/34/3
4/3
2/2
-
-
-
-


11
at will/4
4/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
3/2
1/1
-
-
-


12
at will/4
4/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
2/2
-
-
-


13
at will/4
4/34/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
3/2
1/1
-
-


14
at will/4
4/34/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
2/2
-
-


15
at will/4
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/3
4/3
3/2
1/1
-


16
at will/4
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/3
4/3
4/3
2/2
-


17
at will/4
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/3
3/2
1/1


18
at will/4
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
2/2


19
at will/4
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
3/2


20
at will/4
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/34/3
4/3









Ability Score Modifier
0th
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


+4
+1











+5
+1
+1










+6
+1
+1
+1









+7
+1
+1
+1
+1








+8
+2
+2
+1
+1
+1







+9
+2
+2
+2
+2
+1
+1
+1





+10
+3
+3
+2
+2
+2
+1
+1
+1




+11
+3
+3
+3
+2
+2
+2
+1
+1
+1



+12
+3
+3
+3
+3
+2
+2
+2
+1
+1
+1


+13
+4
+4
+3
+3
+3
+2
+2
+2
+1
+1


+14
+4
+4
+4
+3
+3
+3
+2
+2
+2
+1


+15
+4
+4
+4
+4
+3
+3
+3
+2
+2
+2


+16
+5
+5
+4
+4
+4
+3
+3
+3
+2
+2


Etc...














Metamagic Specialist [general]:
Preequisites: Spellcraft 4 ranks, ability to cast 2nd level spells
Effect: You may spontaneously apply metamagic effects to your spells without increasing the casting time. You may use this ability a number of times equal to 3 + your charisma modifier.

Rebuking [general]:
Effect: Gain the ability to rebuke or awe a creature type (as dictated by the ranger favored enemy chart) as with the Cleric’s “rebuke undead” ability. One may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3+charisma modifier. This ability cannot “command”, but it can be used to “bolster”.
Special: If Humanoid or Outsider is chosen, one can select two subtypes.
Special: One may get this feat multiple times, selecting a different creature type each time. Each time this feat is taken after the first increases the total number of rebuking attempts by 1, and increases the creature types affected by each rebuking attempt. For example, if this feat is taken twice, the character has 4+charisma modifier rebuking attempts, and can affect Fey, Humanoid (dwarf), and Humanoid (elf).

Domain Access [Divine]:
Prerequisite: Can cast spells, Wis 10
Effect: You select a Cleric or Shaman Domain, you gain that domain’s granted power, substituting all instances of Cleric/Shaman with Magic User. Additionally the domain’s spells are cast with a -1 adjustment to their final metamagic cost.
Special: If the domain power grants a turning ability, it instead grants the Rebuking feat.
Special: This feat may be taken an additional number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier




So I could use help with coming up with a decent name...
Acf's coming along, all suggestions welcome

Gildedragon
2014-05-05, 08:41 PM
Alternative Class Features


Bloodmage:

Saves: Fortitude is the good save
HD: D4
Skills: 2+Int per level.
Skill Bonus: +4 bonus to Autohypnosis, Craft (alchemy) checks to construct bloodspikes, Concentration, and Heal

Bonus Feats: A Bloodmage does not gain Eschew Materials at first level, nor do they get a free bonus feat at second, fifth or eighth level. Instead they gain Diehard at second level and Arcane Toughness at eighth level. These feats are acquired despite the bloodmage possibly not meeting the prerequisites.

Spellcasting: To learn or ready a spell a bloodmage must have a Con score of at least 10+spell level. A Bloodmage uses their constitution score to determine bonus spells per day. The save DC of a bloodmage’s spell is equal to the level of the spell. A bloodmage with a high intelligence does not get to ready bonus spells other than cantrips.

Spells in the Blood: From first level onwards, a Bloodmage can ready bonus spells by reducing their maximum hitpoints for the day by 1 per additional spell level. A bloodmage cannot ready spells of a level higher than they could ordinarily cast.

Bloodcasting: Starting at first level Bloodmage can, as a free action, take damage to increase the DC of a spell as they are casting it. The DC gains +1 per every 2 points of damage taken this way. Additionally a bloodmage can also take damage to reduce the cost a spell’s material component cost at a 1:1 ratio. This process is particularly painful, but does not require the bloodmage to make a concentration check. This ability replaces Spellbook Casting.

Leechcasting: A bloodmage of 5th or higher level can use willing or helpless target’s within 30’ instead of themselves to satisfy the costs of bloodcasting
Scarred Spells: By etching a spell into their skin, permanently reducing their maximum hitpoints, bloodmage can reduce the cost of scribing a spell into their spellbook by 50gp per hitpoint so sacrificed. These hitpoints may not be regained in any way.

Bloodmage Feats
Blooded Metamagic [metamagic]:

Prerequisites: Bloodcasting, 8HD
Effect: Your bloodcasting allows you enhance your spells without using a higher level slot. The cost is a number of points of Constitution Damage equal to the spell slot adjustment of the metamagic feat. This damage may not be restored by magic and is healed at the rate of 1 point per day. You cannot enhance a spell to a level higher than you can cast.

Loek
2014-05-06, 03:29 PM
The Magic User can only cast a certain number of spells of each spell-level per day: their daily base allotment is given in Table 2. In addition they receive bonus spells per day if they have a high Constitution score (or Charisma, if the Constitution score is lower than 6).

While I like that you give an alternative ability score to base the spellcasting of, I'd recommend only using it when the character's constitution = - (constructs/undead). Otherwise you could use it as a dump stat (not really an issue with constitution... but still...)

ps: mention the "eschew materials" feat somewhere in the class features (I recommend in the bonus feat segment, similar to how the artificer handles it).


Anyhow, love most of the features. I assume you don't gain additional spells (cast) per day because you gain "spellbook casting" instead?


Not entirely sure about the rebuking feat... Feels a bit like smashing too many aspects of too many types of casters together (and the effect of taking it again seems a bit weak... If I remember correctly the cleric version gives you 3 or 4 extra turning attempts... but of course no new types that are affected).

Avatar of nature has the same problems as the rebuking feat, but on top of that, it is an extremely powerful feature of the druid... So I really recommend on increasing the requirements by a lot and/or having it give "as druid - X" level (or even just half druid level).

Domain access has some of the same problem again... but less unbalancing.

The meta magic one works though.

Realistically I think the 3 I mentioned first (rebuking, avatar of nature and domain access) should be ACF, maybe replacing spellbook casting? - and even in that case, avatar of nature (at least) needs to be nerfed.

Gildedragon
2014-05-06, 04:23 PM
While I like that you give an alternative ability score to base the spellcasting of, I'd recommend only using it when the character's constitution = - (constructs/undead). Otherwise you could use it as a dump stat (not really an issue with constitution... but still...)

ps: mention the "eschew materials" feat somewhere in the class features (I recommend in the bonus feat segment, similar to how the artificer handles it).



Thanks will do. Though regarding the low con: a char with 6 or lower con has 2 or 1 hp per level if not undead.



Anyhow, love most of the features. I assume you don't gain additional spells (cast) per day because you gain "spellbook casting" instead?


Actually they do "In addition they receive bonus spells per day if they have a high Constitution score" and they get bonus spells readied for a high int score.



Not entirely sure about the rebuking feat... Feels a bit like smashing too many aspects of too many types of casters together (and the effect of taking it again seems a bit weak... If I remember correctly the cleric version gives you 3 or 4 extra turning attempts... but of course no new types that are affected).




Avatar of nature has the same problems as the rebuking feat, but on top of that, it is an extremely powerful feature of the druid... So I really recommend on increasing the requirements by a lot and/or having it give "as druid - X" level (or even just half druid level).

I think I might do a nature mage acf; illiterate, tattoo oriented, some shapeshifting...



Domain access has some of the same problem again... but less unbalancing.

The meta magic one works though.

Realistically I think the 3 I mentioned first (rebuking, avatar of nature and domain access) should be ACF, maybe replacing spellbook casting? - and even in that case, avatar of nature (at least) needs to be nerfed.
I am fond of the rebuke feat as it allows some shock and awe tactics... Though without the insta-destroy option of turning... Maybe I ought revise it. The nature variant is gonna be a thing.

ben-zayb
2014-05-06, 08:29 PM
Alright, time for some PEACHing!


First of all, I'd comment on the idea of mashing all full-casters together into one class: It's probably something that I'd actually avoid, simply because it further heightens the gap between the Angel Summoner (full casters) and the BMX Bandit (partials and mundanes). In a game of all magic users, this is a workable idea, but I'm not sure if it is elsewhere.

With that said, how about the other subsystems? Do Pact Magic, Incarnum, Psionics, Truenaming, Shadowcasting, and Invoking exist? Does Initiating exist? If yes, how will they compare against the Magic User? Will there also be a revamped generic Fighter and Expert classes to bridge the incoming gap? These are some questions to consider.
On to PEACH proper:
Special: This is really a must if your goal is to replace all other full-casters from the game. Although I'm wondering how it works on semi-alternate-progression theurge classes (Ultimate Magus, True Necromancer, etc.)

Spellcasting: While I like this "readied spell" style that is very reminiscent of the underrated Spirit Shaman class, I'd point out that what stops some full-casters (like the Healer) from being too broken is their limited spell list.

I'm also of the impression that there is an attempt to keep MADness, as a balancing measure perhaps. If so, I'm unsure if it succeeds in that goal. Spells readied (i.e. spell flexibility) are FAR more important than spells/day, and the Magic User has Sorcerer spells/day anyway (a good caster only needs so little spells to end encounters, less if not doing it on his own).

I suggest using the wizard or cleric spells/day instead, if only to make investing in Con/Cha much more worth it. Alternatively (or additionally), raise the normal requirement by two more (+1 1st level spell readied needs a +5 mod, +1 9th level needs a +13 mod) such that it's like your bonus spells/day but only one stage more difficult. Switching the ability modifiers would probably be better, but that would be counterproductive since I think, thematically, you already hit the mark (Con for spell supply, Int for spell selection).

As for the spells being Arcane and Divine, I'd just caution you that this is very, VERY, ripe for abuse. With the Magic User, it gets worse because spells normally not on the Divine spell list are now easily persistable (or other DMM uses). Magic Users also easily qualify for gestalt theurge classes with far better features in exchange for delayed alternate casting progression (e.g. Ultimate Magus, etc.), which may not be the case for the Magic User.

Metamagic: It's a great feature to use and is fairly balanced. I really like this, which is again reminiscent of the Spirit Shaman.

Spellbook: I'm really averse to this feature. Combining Archivist and Wizard IMO is a bad idea. Combining Divine Insight and Improvisation makes the Skillmonkey irrelevant where it mattered. Combining the best of the Wizard's utility, the Cleric's healing and party buffs, and the Druid's battlefield control, IMO is a really bad idea.

Bonus Feat: Why not just make it like the Wizard feat progression, with a far better feat selection like this? I'm not sure if this class will really need a lot of feats. 1/4 or 1/5 class level might be enough IMO.

Spellbook Casting: This would be balanced except for the fact that I don't see any reason why a Magic User wouldn't just have a bazillion spellbook with this ability in mind. Maybe make it so the spell is removed from all of the Magic User's spellbook, and he can't scribe such spells from other people's spellbooks for the next (insert cooldown time).

Feats: I suggest just using separate ACFs than these. Otherwise, it's really just combining the best of both worlds without any drawbacks. A Magic User could have Rebuke (and DMM), Wild Shape, Domain access, and auto-metamagic, all at the same time.

ACF:
Spells in the Blood: I'm not sure how balanced this is. But a Magic User with persisted cleric/druid buffs could have as much 400+ HP at level 20. And spending 9 of those for a 9th level spell seems a very good deal. I can't think of a proper scaling factor, though.:smalltongue:

Bloodcasting: With DMM shenanigans, Vigor, and other healing, shooting the DC of a spell to the moon should be a breeze. Maybe put some kind of limit? Or maybe do it the same way as Spells in the Blood (reduce maximum HP)?

Blooded Metamagic: With access to the cleric's spell list, this is really far too easy to mitigate. This also means nothing if you cast spells while Shapechanged to an Undead/Construct form, correct? Maybe make this an Ability Burn instead, and have it not work when currently having Con (-)?
Final Thoughts:
Overall, I like the theme of a generic magic user, but I'd probably go the other direction by limiting them. Prepared casting, fewer spell slots, to name a few, in exchange for a far more vast spell lists access (sadly, anathema to your mechanical goals). Bloodcasting is something that I also like thematically, but it's very hard to execute in a game where HP flows like a river and refills easily during downtimes.

Zale
2014-05-06, 08:30 PM
I like the Rebuking, to be honest. Letting you bully things into obeying you through the raw power of magic is cool, and the ability to select for yourself what it is you Rebuke is a wonderful level of customization.

I can't say much for how powerful it is until the Spell List is posted, but as far as I can tell, it looks nice. I am looking forward to how this goes.

Gildedragon
2014-05-06, 08:55 PM
Thanks Y'all

@ Zale: ALL the 9 level lists are the spell list.
and yeah the rebuking is meant as a means to cow people with your awesome

@Ben: Great comments. Note that the blooded metamagic cannot work if you have no con to take the damage from, and that it does not allow for raising past your max spell level.

Zale
2014-05-06, 09:04 PM
@ Zale: ALL the 9 level lists are the spell list.

Uh.

All of those?

That kind of just kind of makes this class fliy screaming up through the tiers and out into the heavens. Wow, that's really, really powerful -especially in combination with the ability to cast from their spellbooks.

VoxRationis
2014-05-06, 09:44 PM
I'm going to have to second the "unbalanced" objection. As it stands now, this looks like a more versatile wizard with a much larger list to choose spells from. Perhaps you should institute some sort of mandatory restriction on what sources they can draw from, or make them specialize in certain schools of magic, or something.

Also, nitpicky stuff: "Whereas" should not begin a single-phrase sentence, as you do in the beginning of the "Abilities" section ("Intelligence.... per day. Whereas Constitution..."). Combine the two sentences, replacing that period with a comma.
Furthermore, your description of Rebuke makes it a very limited ability indeed. It can be used "3+Cha modifier times"? Not per day? Just forever? Your feat is forever worthless after a few rolls?

Gildedragon
2014-05-06, 11:06 PM
Edited:
Bloodmage magics now can't be healed by magic,
Rebuking is per day,
grammar fix'd
Avatar of Nature removed, getting turned to an ACF
editing spell list preferential treatment. all lists still available, though spells might not be taken from the most preferential.
edited spells per day to be as wizard.

spikeof2010
2014-05-07, 05:21 AM
I like this class!

Two things bother me though.

What's the point of Spellbook casting besides a one-shot spell casting that makes you have to get the spell again.

Also Bloodmage's Scarred Spells seems a bit useless considering there are feats to memorize spells for a much lesser cost.

Gildedragon
2014-05-07, 10:27 AM
I like this class!

Two things bother me though.

What's the point of Spellbook casting besides a one-shot spell casting that makes you have to get the spell again.

Also Bloodmage's Scarred Spells seems a bit useless considering there are feats to memorize spells for a much lesser cost.

Spellbook casting is intended as a last ditch option, a way for a magic-user to get that spell they need NOW.

Scarred spells: it reduces the cost of learning the spell. There might be feats that allow you to outright learn a spell, but that does use up a feat

spikeof2010
2014-05-07, 06:54 PM
Spellbook casting is intended as a last ditch option, a way for a magic-user to get that spell they need NOW.

Scarred spells: it reduces the cost of learning the spell. There might be feats that allow you to outright learn a spell, but that does use up a feat

Spellbook casting still seems like a really poor class feature compared what you can get with other classes.

VoxRationis
2014-05-07, 07:14 PM
Then that's good! Multiple people have brought up the power that unrestricted access to multiple 1-9 spell lists gives them; a couple of suboptimal class features aren't really going to make it an "I'm never going to play this" affair.

spikeof2010
2014-05-07, 09:10 PM
Then that's good! Multiple people have brought up the power that unrestricted access to multiple 1-9 spell lists gives them; a couple of suboptimal class features aren't really going to make it an "I'm never going to play this" affair.

I still think it should get a better class feature than turning your spellbook into a scroll for one use.

Gildedragon
2014-05-07, 09:21 PM
I still think it should get a better class feature than turning your spellbook into a scroll for one use.

it is not a single time thing. Albeit each spell can only be used once per time scribed in the spellbook, but it can be done repeatedly, and in a day "number of times per day equal to half their intelligence modifier"

as to other class features, that is the purpose of the bonus feats and their emulation of key class features of other classes (notably cleric domains and turning ability) or familiars (with the feat already existing, with the added bonus that they can trade that familiar for an ACF that substitutes a familiar)
when compared to the other casters they are getting more class features (esp compared to the sorcerer)

Zale
2014-05-08, 12:12 AM
The problem is that I can not realistically see any DM allowing this once they understand that the character can learn all spells from all full-caster lists.

When reading this, I was taken with the impression that'd it be a limited generalist. You know, mostly generically magical spells, with a few classics thrown in.

Having all those spells is rather excessive, as it allows them to pick and choose from the best of the best. It basically has all the advantages of all full-casters, other than a few class features that fade in comparison to their casting power.

ben-zayb
2014-05-08, 05:22 AM
An alternate approach to retain the flavor of the class without compromising the overall versatility already set forth is limiting the maximum spell level to 6th, as the bard's progression.