New campaign same people same problems. How do I get my players to actively roleplay?

[Clicky]

I've been having this problem for a long time. Spent the last 9 months DMing a super epic story driven high level campaign. For the entirety of the campaign, only two of my five players made any attempt at all to be anything other than passive players, and only one of them actually played any semblance of a believable character.

The party basically consisted of Party-Face, Chaotic-Stupid-Campaign-Derailer, and Faceless-Apathetic-Meatsacks 1-3.

Now our regular DM (the only guy who would roleplay besides me) is back in the throne again, and we're getting ready to start up a new campaign. This one will be low level, low magic, gritty Game Of Thrones-esque fantasy with a much more open ended play style.

I will be the assistant DM. Mostly playing a character but swapping out to run the dungeons as our DM is kind of meh at dungeon design.

Our collective problem though is that the rest of our players are so passive they're basically a stone's throw away from braindead.

So...what do?

[The Grue]

Can you give an example of what you mean by "passive"?

[Clicky]

They play the game, but they never add anything to the game, IC or OOC, other than an extra PC. I'm in no way saying they aren't interested. If they didn't want to play, they wouldn't be there. They just quietly sit and observe, and then play on their turns.

[Sir Chuckles]

Ask "What do you do?" more often.
Look them in the eyes as you describe things.

If they're paying attention and contributing when you address them, it's likely a simple matter of "that's their playstyle".

[Clicky]

Ask "What do you do?" more often.
Look them in the eyes as you describe things.

If they're paying attention and contributing when you address them, it's likely a simple matter of "that's their playstyle".


Well, they contribute solely in the form of attacking on their turn during combat, but out of combat, they're just taking up space.

[Bonzai]

Role play isn't something you can force. Some people just want to take a back seat and throw dice. All you can do is provide an environment that encourages them to participate, and attempt to engage them and draw them out.

[Sir Chuckles]

Well, they contribute solely in the form of attacking on their turn during combat, but out of combat, they're just taking up space.

Then ask them outside of combat. What characters do they usually play? Beatstick Fighters, or did they put ranks in Intimidate?
Because if you show them that they have options to develop a character, they might take them.

If they don't, then you might have to accept that they're playing the game in a different way, and if they're honestly having fun, you can't stop or change them.

[Clicky]

Then ask them outside of combat. What characters do they usually play? Beatstick Fighters, or did they put ranks in Intimidate?
Because if you show them that they have options to develop a character, they might take them.

If they don't, then you might have to accept that they're playing the game in a different way, and if they're honestly having fun, you can't stop or change them.

Fair enough. This time around they're playing much more interesting characters. I think one of the problems was that, at least for some of them, they were playing characters not suited to them (different gender, difficult alignment, the character itself was kind of uninteresting). When I'm not DMing, I'm usually party face. I'm playing a quiet and neurotic thri-kreen this time, which is a decidedly non-party-face character.

[jedipotter]

Our collective problem though is that the rest of our players are so passive they're basically a stone's throw away from braindead.

So...what do?


Often this is a DM/Player disconnect. Where, for example, the players want action/adventure role-play, and the DM wants deep drama role-play. You can see this most often with towns. Players see towns as ''boring places that slow down the adventure'', while DM's see the town as a ''massive beautiful web of plot clues, mystery, and lore.'' The players see talking to the old farmer a waste of time, even if he did fight the dragon once that they are after now. The players want a thirty second chat of ''this is what I know about the dragon'', the DM wants ''an hour long story full of cryptic clues''.


A great trick that works is: don't make the world ''Like Old Tyme Earth''. Human farmers, innkeepers and such are boring. But just think if the players went over to the blacksmith and found he was a Red Dragon. Or if the characters had to fight for a room at the inn?

Greed is also a good trick. Players will ''suddenly'' role-play to get good loot.

[Clicky]

Often this is a DM/Player disconnect. Where, for example, the players want action/adventure role-play, and the DM wants deep drama role-play. You can see this most often with towns. Players see towns as ''boring places that slow down the adventure'', while DM's see the town as a ''massive beautiful web of plot clues, mystery, and lore.'' The players see talking to the old farmer a waste of time, even if he did fight the dragon once that they are after now. The players want a thirty second chat of ''this is what I know about the dragon'', the DM wants ''an hour long story full of cryptic clues''.


A great trick that works is: don't make the world ''Like Old Tyme Earth''. Human farmers, innkeepers and such are boring. But just think if the players went over to the blacksmith and found he was a Red Dragon. Or if the characters had to fight for a room at the inn?

Greed is also a good trick. Players will ''suddenly'' role-play to get good loot.

I try not to do a long complex exposition. For something like what you described, I'd honestly give everyone the option to just do a gather information check and then I explain what they learned. Although I totally do have NPCs with fleshed out personalities if they care to talk to anybody. I even give each one a unique voice. And taking the extra time to talk to a few people usually gives the PCs better info than just rolling the check. And I've expressly said that. Roleplay is rewarded.

But what I'm mostly bothered about is when the BBEG has his evil gloating dialogue and every time the party runs into him it's the same one PC talking back, it gets kind of boring.

[Shinken]

Maybe you should quit the evil gloating dialogue, then.

[Clicky]

Maybe you should quit the evil gloating dialogue, then.

But loud, ******* bad guys are all us two DMs know. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that we have two DMs.

Edit: Seriously, this forum has a profanity filter? Jeez.

[Abithrios]

Edit: Seriously, this forum has a profanity filter? Jeez.

This forum has more moderation than many others. I suggest that you take the time to look through the rules, lest you run afoul of them.

I wish you luck with your players.

[HighWater]

But loud, ******* bad guys are all us two DMs know. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that we have two DMs.

If the players don't want to do the conversation-bits, they don't want to do the conversation bits.
They may also not be doing the conversation bits, because somebody else is already doing the conversation bits.

Upset that they don't talk smack at your BBEG? Make him/her adress them personally. Fling some in-character insults at each and every one. A good chance at least a couple will shout back something.

But if they don't like doing the talky bits, they don't like doing the talky bits. Some players prefer being in an interactive movie, where they pretty much only get to fight the fights and make some macrolevel choices, much more than being in improv theater.

[nedz]

They play the game, but they never add anything to the game, IC or OOC, other than an extra PC. I'm in no way saying they aren't interested. If they didn't want to play, they wouldn't be there. They just quietly sit and observe, and then play on their turns.
You could try putting them on the spot: Split the party and give each a talky encounter. Physically take the players into another room (OOC) and parcel out information between them. I prefer to do this based on their backstores/contacts from the start of the campaign. At the very least this should get them role-playing between each other. If the players aren't interested in this sort of thing though, then it may not work.


I try not to do a long complex exposition. For something like what you described, I'd honestly give everyone the option to just do a gather information check and then I explain what they learned. Although I totally do have NPCs with fleshed out personalities if they care to talk to anybody. I even give each one a unique voice. And taking the extra time to talk to a few people usually gives the PCs better info than just rolling the check. And I've expressly said that. Roleplay is rewarded.

But what I'm mostly bothered about is when the BBEG has his evil gloating dialogue and every time the party runs into him it's the same one PC talking back, it gets kind of boring.

See above, also stop using BBEGs. It's a valid playstyle, but I find organisations/conspiracies more interesting. NPCs then become individuals with a role in said organisation, driven by some ideology.

[KorbeltheReader]

I don't think you can force people to become something they're not. If your players didn't become more active for either you or the other GM, then they're probably just not very active players. Some players are like that. It's possible they'll get more active in time, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The important question isn't whether they're playing the game how you want them to play it, but whether they're having fun. If so (and the fact that they keep coming seems to indicate so), then I see no problem.

[IIzak]

Couple things to help encouraging just a little more RP from your group:

1. Get into character yourself - Now it sounds like you're kinda doing this one already, but for a lot of people, a big problem that I've seen when it comes to RP is shyness. Most people are too embarrassed to do something like act like the giant shrieking barbarian that wants to destroy everything in a glorious rage. If you're acting out your NPC's and showing everyone that its alright to RP and to be in character, then they may be more inclined to let go and get into character themselves.

2. Reward RP - As a DM, one of the best ways I've found to get my players to RP is to reward them for doing so. I've seen a lot of people go the experience route, where certain RP situations grant experience, and I'm all for that, but the conversation with the inn keeper about his daughter or whatever may not necessarily be worth experience. But it might be worth a free room at the inn, saving the PC some of their hard-earned money. Or access to information that they normally wouldn't have gotten. Or maybe that guy takes a liking to the PC and covers for him when the bad guys come a-knocking. One of the best ways I've seen to reward RP is an idea that I heard during a panel at a convention, Karma Dice. Most of us who play D&D at all have quite a lot of extra dice at our disposal, either from our own collection, or from someone else's. At the beginning of that days session, designate 2 piles (Good Karma & Bad Karma). Put one dice in the good karma pool and two dice in the bad karma pool. The good karma dice are used by the players, during an "Oh no I rolled a natural 1 on my X check that is going to have a seriously bad consequence" type situation, where the player can remove a dice from the good karma pool to have the action succeed. In order to have the action succeed, the PC must RP and explain exactly the circumstances that led to the success. Good RP in game causes the DM to add dice to the good karma pool, while bad RP or players goofing off too much etc. causes the DM to add bad karma dice.

(Example: PC attempts to jump across a canyon and fails the jump check, which would kill them. The PC uses a karma dice from the pool, and explains how the his character started to fall to his doom, but how a bird that he had rescued as a little boy had grown into a Roc and it had been on its way to finally thank him, and it saw him falling and swooped down and plopped him back on the ground, and then the Roc said "And now we're even" and flew away.)

The Bad Karma dice are like good karma dice, but for the DM. Essentially they let the DM cancel out an action that happened, such as (Oh you just crit-killed my BBEG in one hit, because of insane luck, nope, you tripped on a loose sandal strap.) Personally I have never used the bad karma dice, they are more there as a deterrent to de-railing the campaign. I use them more to control general rowdiness, but I like the players being able to save themselves when it was only a chance roll of dice that caused their downfall.

[Trasilor]

I have a similar problem - trying to engage the players.

One suggestion given to me that I will try is to create a story arc around one specific character. For example, if one of your passive players is playing a cleric - have his/her church send them on a quest.

Talk to the players and explain this is what you are doing and take them aside individually and find out what they (the player) would like their character to accomplish.

Perhaps the fighters want to own a castle and build an army or maybe they want to start a fighting school or whatever.

Otherwise, have your character read this exposition (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html). Rich does a good job of explaining that words and actions are forms of roleplay.

Suggest having your players read it -or paraphrase it.

Edit: +1 on role playing XP rewards (just make sure you do it for RP in and out of combat) - the barbarian who decides to 'hold the line' while the rest of the party regroups/gets reinforcements should get RP XP too.

[Ceaon]

If your players enjoy a game where all they need to do is roll attack rolls against enemies, why not give that to them?

[IIzak]

Also, RP'ing battle and skills works well too. Rather than them saying "Oh I roll a spot check" tell your players to just decribe what they want to do, and you'll ask them for checks. Also, instead of "I attack the orc with my greatsword" say something like "I muster my strength and hack at the orc's neck" etc.

[Arc_knight25]

Loot seems to be the best answer. Give it to them...then take it away. Give them reasons that their characters can connect with as to why they would want something to say to the BBEG.

Give the Barbarian an ancient axe of his people to have the BBEG destroy it. You now have a quest hook to repair the axe along with evening the score with the villain.

Take out family members, loved ones, whole towns. Look into their backstory and find the link that will get them engaged, angry or find vengeance.

Reward them for their efforts as well. Give them small trinkets, permanent +2 circumstance bonuses for RPing well.

It can bring the table together when epic/funny things happen.

[Trasilor]

If your players enjoy a game where all they need to do is roll attack rolls against enemies, why not give that to them?

Because the DM is not enjoying this game. Remember, the DM is a player too and they want to have fun. :smallamused:

[jedipotter]

But what I'm mostly bothered about is when the BBEG has his evil gloating dialogue and every time the party runs into him it's the same one PC talking back, it gets kind of boring.

So you like to have a big ''Bond/Villain'' moment? I guess most of your players don't go for that type of drama. And if they don't like it, they won't do it.

[Alikat]

As a person with near crippling levels of shyness. Sometimes stepping up in character in front of a group of people - even friends - is hard as heck.. I'd love to play a party face or DM some day. But I really worry I don't have it in me. I still love the game.

Recently started playing an online pf game in addition to my rl 3.5 game. It's been sooo much easier to be outgoing when I'm Para-rping, writing a character, and not trying to act, lol. :smallsmile:

[Arbane]

Play a pirate game, it'd be a start.

because everyone does the pirate voice, matey.

[Alikat]

Play a pirate game, it'd be a start.

because everyone does the pirate voice, matey.

I tried to be a swashbuckler in the PF game! The DM wouldn't let me though cause I guess it's a third party class in that system?

[ddude987]

I'd agree with the stay away from the BBEG style. In A Song of Ice n Fire campaign it would certainly play more towards the likeness of the style to have many conflicting parties and people over one obvious big bad.

[Arbane]

I tried to be a swashbuckler in the PF game! The DM wouldn't let me though cause I guess it's a third party class in that system?

There is a swashbuckler 3rd-party class, but there's also this Rogue archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/swashbuckler). Still, GMs ban stuff for weird reasons sometimes...

[lunar2]

Loot seems to be the best answer. Give it to them...then take it away. Give them reasons that their characters can connect with as to why they would want something to say to the BBEG.

Give the Barbarian an ancient axe of his people to have the BBEG destroy it. You now have a quest hook to repair the axe along with evening the score with the villain.

Take out family members, loved ones, whole towns. Look into their backstory and find the link that will get them engaged, angry or find vengeance.

Reward them for their efforts as well. Give them small trinkets, permanent +2 circumstance bonuses for RPing well.

It can bring the table together when epic/funny things happen.

no. don't give loot you just plan to take away. don't give your players anything you aren't comfortable with them having, so long as you are staying within the rules. it's ok to say you can't have a candle of invocation. it's not ok to let them have one, and then steal it before they can use it, or actually have it be a cursed item (assuming they bought it or got it as a quest reward, instead of as random loot). giving your players things just so you can take them away is just cheating your players. they won't get mad at your BBEG, they will get mad at you. that would be like a blackjack dealer that took back any aces the players got. that dealer would find a fist in his face the first time a player got blackjack.

[HalfQuart]

I guess the only thing I have to add is that clear communication is often the best way to find a resolution... actually sit down and talk with your players about what sort of game they (and you) want to play, how role playing fits in, anything you can do to make role playing easier, and so forth.

[Morrolan]

Several people have mentioned giving rewards for roleplay, and I wanted to +1 that suggestion. But don't make all roleplay rewards good for the entire party. Reward some roleplay per person, give them minor story arcs. Have them meet interesting people and build up a network of contacts etc, or even give one a title to shake up the balance in the party. It may make the other players want to have their own minor story arcs as well.
Additionally, if they roleplay when they are also rolling for something, give them a bonus on the roll if appropriate. Don't just do this with social checks either. If the fighter shouts the name of his dead sister when he charges her killer, give him a +2 on attack and/or damage or w/e.

Also, as a dm, roleplay your npcs, and not just the important ones. The more you roleplay at them, the more they should roleplay back. And if they answer the npc out of character, ask for them to say the same in game. Furthermore, don't let them decide too many things in out of character as a party when they should be doing it in character. If they are talking about a strategy to defeat a boss, ask them to do so in character!
And when the dm asks for roleplay, players shouldn't refuse, right? If they only reply out of character, just have the npc wait for in in character answer. And if they answer in short sentences, have npcs be offended by their directness or something.

Finally, ask for them to write a background. If you feel like that would be asking too much, prepare a handful of question for them. Are your parents still alive, what do they do? How did you become your current class? Does your character have any personality flaws/strengths? Where did he/she grow up? Just a few things for you to know about their characters but also to force them to flesh their characters out a bit.

[nedz]

The problem with XP for role-play is that it is patronising and can smack of favouritism. At best it's really just a reward to someone who has the same play-style as the DM. The players who have a different playstyle from the DM are already being punished and this just turns that up to 11.
Also: you are using IC methods to attempt to fix an OOC problem.

[HighWater]

The problem with XP for role-play is that it is patronising and can smack of favouritism. At best it's really just a reward to someone who has the same play-style as the DM. The players who have a different playstyle from the DM are already being punished and this just turns that up to 11.
Also: you are using IC methods to attempt to fix an OOC problem.

Quoted for truth. Giving some people bonus xp as a "reward", will feel like "punishment" and "judgement" to those who didn't get bonus xp. Punishment is not a good motivational technique as it tends to lead to resentment, which encourages the opposite of the desired adjustment.

[Troacctid]

I'm not totally confident about how to articulate this, but for me, part of roleplaying is approaching challenges the way the character would approach them. The abilities and statistics on the character sheet are what define the character's strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities. When you put your players in a scene where nothing on that sheet has any relevance whatsoever, you're taking away the lens that lets them see through their characters' eyes and asking them to think out-of-character instead--essentially, you've left the game that their character lives in and started playing something else. Does that make sense?

[Captnq]

I've been having this problem for a long time. Spent the last 9 months DMing a super epic story driven high level campaign.

That's your problem.

You started out high level. I run a high level campaign, but we started at 1st. It took about a month to go up a level. High level campaigns are boring, unless you've been playing the same characters for years, in which case you can have fun, even if one player outshines the others.

Start off at 3rd with your new campaign. Or 1st if you got the balls for it. Make every player HAVE to work or they will DIE. When they are passive and don't do anything, don't help them, KILL THEM. Make them roll up new PCs. Trust me, once they start losing, they will stop being passive and have much more fun.

[HalfQuart]

Start off at 3rd with your new campaign. Or 1st if you got the balls for it. Make every player HAVE to work or they will DIE. When they are passive and don't do anything, don't help them, KILL THEM. Make them roll up new PCs. Trust me, once they start losing, they will stop being passive and have much more fun.
Although if you intend to play a really deadly game, make sure your players know it ahead of time so they can have a few characters prepped. The downside of a deadly game is that it's easy to become more detached from the characters -- you don't really have time to fall in love with them and flesh out their personalities... that often takes me a few levels, and I think of myself as a decent RPer.

I also think it's really funny how your comment reads with regards to "player" and "character" -- sounds like you recommend killing the people at your table... ;-)