PDA

View Full Version : Ways to die and be sent to Baator without being LE



Nettlekid
2014-05-06, 12:11 AM
In a campaign I'm DMing, we're nearing the end of the school semester and one player is graduating, which means they won't be able to play in the group anymore. However, I'd sort of planned for this (and kind of already had a component of the story incorporated this way) and so I'm planning to kill off this PC in the final meeting of the year and continue their story with them via Skype or something separately. They've been followed around for a few sessions now by a Zodar, because I like the whole "You are the chosen ones even though you don't know it and this guy knows that about you" thing, and its trademark subtle once-a-year Wish is going to be to send at least this party member, probably the whole party, to Hell when they die because it knows that's where they're going to need to go, and none of them are Lawful Evil and so wouldn't go there normally.

To make it more interesting for this party member in hell I want to put together a little NPC team for them to ally with. They'll meet this team when they're taken to some kind of holding area for "irregulars" that the Devils aren't sure what to do with because they shouldn't be in Hell (don't want to accidentally violate the Pact Primeval, now do you?) and so the NPC party should be made of similar irregulars. I know I don't need to go into such detail, but I like the concept. So, what classes (or any other things, like feats or stuff) state that when the creature dies they're sent to Baator, regardless of alignment or other factors? The perfect example of what I'm thinking of the the Shadow Sun Ninja's capstone which kills the ninja and sends them to a hell prison if they overuse it. I think the Mountebank (base class) also gets sent to either Baator or the Abyss upon death, and although they must be nongood they don't have to match the alignment of their destination, or even be evil I think. What other classes have a similar clause?

(By the way, I know that usually when you die you're sent to a plane and then you become a petitioner and don't retain class features and etc etc etc, but I'm making it more interesting at least for these "unusual" cases.)

Falcon X
2014-05-06, 12:42 AM
Anything that implies a deal with the devils at some point could be twisted this way. Warlocks are potential candidates as it is left open to opinion on how they got their power. Shadow Sun Ninjas are similar.

Another way would be somebody who worshipped a god that resides in Baator, but isn't actually LE themselves. You are allowed to be one step away from your deities alignment under normal circumstances.
Note: I'm getting most of these from "On Hallowed Ground" from Planescape, which you would do well to read.
- For example, a goblin or kobold could be of another alignment, but might still serve Bargrivyek or Kurtulmak due to their birth.
- Hecate is CE, despite living in Baator. Her followers also draw from mages of all alignments.
- Kriesha is LE, but her followers are mostly True Neutral beasts.
- Innana (Sumerian) is LE, but her followers are drawn from Lovers and Warriors. Those with such passions might wind up with her.

There is also a tradition in D&D, I forget which book (Probably fiendish Codex 2) that fiends wait and often intercept dead souls on their way to their afterlife. They have an opportunity to make a deal with the souls that generally amounts to "We get your soul in exchange for doing something good or passing a message to your loved ones."
This could be seen as a "good" act for those of good alignments.

And don't forget Faustian Pacts (Fiendish Codex 2) which are exclusively made with non-LE customers.

hamishspence
2014-05-06, 01:11 AM
Be LG/LN, commit a bunch of Corrupt acts, with Good intentions, be unrepentant about those Corrupt acts, is probably the simplest way by FC2. Only repentant characters get the Hellbred transformation.

BWR
2014-05-06, 07:01 AM
Heavenly mix-up. Through bureucrasy, accident or just plaing bad luck, some poor soul was sent to Lower Planes. **** happens.

Kidnapped! Character is taken by some evildoer and his soul is given to the baatezu. Captured and sacrificed by an evil caster on his home world, traveling slavers who want cash, who knows?

Sins of the father - something an ancestor did was left to his descendants to pay for. Guess who's the lucky boy?

Hostage exchange. For whatever reason, the a fiend in possession of someone the PC wants is willing to make a switch.

Fouredged Sword
2014-05-06, 08:20 AM
Killed by thanium (Sp?) weapon, that is then broken in the lower planes. They soul is released into the lower planes only to find itself trapped by the plane itself!

Falcon X
2014-05-06, 12:10 PM
Heavenly mix-up. Through bureucrasy, accident or just plaing bad luck, some poor soul was sent to Lower Planes. **** happens.

Kidnapped! Character is taken by some evildoer and his soul is given to the baatezu. Captured and sacrificed by an evil caster on his home world, traveling slavers who want cash, who knows?

Sins of the father - something an ancestor did was to his descendants to pay for. Guess who's the lucky boy?

Hostage exchange. For whatever reason, the a fiend in possession of someone the PC wants is willing to make a switch.

Good points.

I don't know if Baator's bureaucracy would work like that, as souls dying is a multi-planar thing. It would have to be intentional I'm thinking. Still, if you could make it happen, it would provide a way to escape. Baator is very Lawful, and if you can prove that you were wrongfully sentenced, they will let you out.

Kidnapped - This is a great idea. BoVD gives a soul stealing spell (Trap the Soul I think) that is made for capturing souls. Since souls are a currency in Baator, there is a good chance that whoever stole the soul would trade it for favors from the fiends. Thus, anyone can get sent down there. Though, I think that a soul trapped this way might be quenched at some point, so you might have a time limit. You'd have to read up on that in BoVD.

Sins of the Father - Another good and flavorful way. I'm not sure if the rules say you can do this, but I don't think they say you can't either...

Icewraith
2014-05-06, 12:45 PM
Kill PC, cast Trap the Soul, sell gem containing soul to Devil, Devil returns to Baator.

Also- Rod of Wonder/Prismatic anything accident.

Edit: Character dies normally, setting has Kelemvor-style "death judge" who sends souls to appropriate locations. Judge goes nuts shortly before PC's turn in line, players have to rescue PC and then figure out how to fix a god.

Nettlekid
2014-05-06, 01:53 PM
I like the "ancestor committed sins" thing, though maybe "ancestor sold first born to devil instead of own soul (only to be taken anyway because that's evil)" might work better. "Mix-up" is just too up in the air, too much of a DM fiaty thing, which this totally can be, but I'd prefer for it not to be.

Anything involving signing deals with Devils or committing Corrupt acts is just out, because that's the NORMAL way you go to hell. I know that the FCII says that signing a deal automatically makes your alignment LE, and the Corrupt acts thing suggests you should turn that way. Regardless, you would still be in hell in the way that you're supposed to be, so the Devils should have no problem torturing you. I'm looking for ways that the Devils would be like "Um, I mean they're here, but are they really meant to be? I'd love to torture them, but I might get in trouble if it turns out I wasn't supposed to."

One more that I thought of would be a Binder who, very used to signing deals in exchange for power, signs a Faustian Pact with a Devil. Except that he was under the effect of a bad binding, so he wasn't in full control of his body, and arguably it wasn't even his soul controlling him at that time (but only arguably so.) I think that's ambiguous enough for Devils to keep that guy under lock and key without knowing if it's okay to torture him.

BWR
2014-05-06, 05:35 PM
I don't know if Baator's bureaucracy would work like that, as souls dying is a multi-planar thing. It would have to be intentional I'm thinking. Still, if you could make it happen, it would provide a way to escape. Baator is very Lawful, and if you can prove that you were wrongfully sentenced, they will let you out.


Sins of the Father - Another good and flavorful way. I'm not sure if the rules say you can do this, but I don't think they say you can't either...

Oh, I was thinking the something along the lines of the Celestial Bureucrasy. This exact thing was actually a story seed in one of the books - some minor bureaucrat for the Chinese pantheon accidentally sends a petitioner to the wrong place and has to recover him before his superiors notice. Cue the PCs who are hired to find and convince the petitioner to go where he should and not stay where he is (which was actually a lot more fun than the place he should have gone).

As for rules...PS was fairly heavy on rules (mostly local physcial and magical laws on the planes) but it was mostly heavy on Rule of Cool. Lots of stuff there left you thinking that the rules probably didn't work that way, but it was undeniably cooler this way. Just because you've never heard of X happening or can see how it should even work given what everyone knows, doesn't mean it can't happen. There are a few things I feel should be immutable - the mystery of the Lady, for one - but things like a soul entering the wrong plane? Ancient pacts and innocents taking the fall? Go wild.

SalterisSolaris
2014-05-07, 04:30 AM
Hmmmm, let's see what else comes to mind:

* A tiefling whose fiendish bloodline somehow was dominant enough at the moment of death to allow a coincidentally cast Banishment spell to hurl her soul right down into Baator.

* A soul who got legitimately sent there, but somehow managed to do good things in Baator over a long, long timespan. In a one-in-a-billion coincidence, he caught the eye of a whimsical but powerful higher-up deity who filed for an appeal (and then forgot about him), which was equally miraculously granted. However, that soul refused to leave Baator, stating he was needed there for... something, <insert potential PC plot moment here>. So he remains, technically guilt-free yet only barely tolerated by the devils. (Mind, this needs to be a one-in-a-billion case, as iirc Baator torment sentences are both eternal and irrevocable...)

* Something I'd call an "emergent soul". This soul never belonged to any actual living person, but coalesced out of nothing. Possible Background: centuries back, there was some huge accident on the prime material plane that lead to the death/misery of thousands - but without anyone causing it, neither by intent nor by negligence. The resident powers of that region needed some scapegoat to prevent rioting, so they invented a fictional culprit who 'also perished in the event'. Generations of survivors continued to hate and curse this fictional culprit... until their hatred finally took humanoid shape in Baator. Or alternatively: Over centuries, oral tradition attributed various (unconnected) mysterious cruelties to a single bad guy... who never existed, though noone knows that. An just like the first option, at some point there was enough hatred/negative emotion that it created a target, right down on Baator. So in principle he/she belongs here, yet technically there is no standing sentence... making him/her a non-case for the devils.