Tank Build.

[JordacaiTheLame]

Hello friends, acquaintances, comrades, etc. I recently had yet another character die in a very difficult campaign I am in. I am in a 4 man party consisting of: level 6 barbarian (with a really cheaty custom race that the DM allowed because the player is his brother) a level 6 human rogue, a level 4 human paladin, and myself (level 3 dwarf fighter). Unfortunately I am an extremely low level because I continue dying due to my selflessness in saving other PC's. I decided to be a tank this time around as I am normally fairly DPS oriented. The campaign is focused around fighting off the infernals (demons, devils and the like). And we are all prisoners. The character I rolled up has fairly horrid stats.

Str 13
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 11
Wis 11
Cha 10

I took the dwarf for the con bonus and so I could potentially pretige into dwarven defender. I took the heavy armor proficiency tree from the d20 FEAT book and shield focus leaving me with an AC of 28 (DM read over feat descriptions and allowed them all to stack). Currently I have no gear because it was all stripped from me in the demon prison.

Does anybody have any idea of any other things I can do to prepare myself for later levels as a tank? Or just any suggestions for a tank player in general.

Thanks guys!

[Sir Chuckles]

Crusader.
Just shove all your levels in Crusader. Replace those Fighter levels, or at least one of them.
Take maneuvers like Crusader's Strike.

Pumping your AC won't do much later on, go with miss chances.
Also, being 3 levels behind, you're going to die again, especially if you have no equipment.

[Vedhin]

The Crusader suggestion. Also, if you have access to the Fiendish Codex II, go into Hellreaver post-haste. It's a tank PrC specifically focused on fighting Evil Outsiders.

After you make it to Hellreaver 5, take a 1 level dip in Binder from Tome of Magic or Incarnate from Magic of Incarnum. If Binder, go for Naebrius. If Incarnate, shape Strongheart Vest and put 1 essentia in. Also for Incarnate, shape Therapeutic Mantle and dump the remaining essntia there, in order to increase healing from Crusader maneuvers.

[Red Fel]

First off, tanking stinks in D&D. Flat out. It's hard to do, and there are no guarantees.

That being said, Crusader is the way to do it. (Others may also suggest Knight, but that has its flaws as well as strengths.)

Here's how to do it:

You'll use two stances, Iron Guard's Glare (IGG) and Thicket of Blades (ToB).

ToB is your stance for when you stand between enemies and your squishier party members. If the enemy tries to move away from you, it receives a rude awakening. Specifically, an AoO. For this reason, you want to take Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, and a reach weapon. Combat Reflexes gives you extra AoOs. Stand Still lets you turn a successful attack on someone moving through your space into an immediate lockdown. A reach weapon extends your space. If you find a way to increase your Str and your DM is willing to permit 3.0 material, the Knock-Down feat (which requires Improved Trip) is a good substitute for Stand Still.

IGG is your stance for when enemies have passed you and are standing over your allies. This penalizes their attacks against anyone but you, and they know it. You'll want something that gives you the advantage when they attack you, such as Robilar's Gambit. Note that Robilar's Gambit pairs comfortably with Knock-Down.

After that, your maneuvers should be primarily White Raven and Devoted Spirit. Focus on tactical tricks. For example, White Raven Tactics never gets old. Similarly, Douse the Flames is great if you need to get someone into position for flanking, and Covering Strike even moreso. Defensive Rebuke is another effective way to force enemies to attack you.

Note also that Crusader is one of the most efficient healers in the game, in that he can heal allies without giving up attacks. Don't be afraid to take maneuvers like Rallying Strike, and of course the almighty Strike of Righteous Vitality.

So, yeah. A lot you can do with Crusader 20, straight up.

[JordacaiTheLame]

I would considering rolling my next character up as a crusader. Unfortunately my DM has us pitting CR6's or CR5's generally with the fiendish subtype, and LOTS of DR. So I am worried that even as a crusader I would die in a heartbeat due to my extremely low level (in comparison to the other party members.) So if anyone has any suggestions on other survival tips please share!

[John Longarrow]

1) Talk to the DM about bringing in a level-appropriate character. Being 3 levels down at low level means short character life.
2) Talk to your DM about having appropriate gear. Without gear, you are mostly useless for fighting.

If the DM isn't good with either, I'd go something very different than a Tank.

Warlock.

Grab Spider Climb and See the Unseen. You can see invisible enemies, you can (normally) climb out of the way, you can HIDE really well, and you have a 2d6 ranged touch that isn't affected by DR.

Once you get another invocation grab summon swarm. Works REALLY WELL since you can drop it on an enemy. If it goes for your party, stop concentrating and it goes away.

In all, it sounds like the DM is doing an old school "You gotta pay your dues" deal for new or replacement characters. This doesn't really work well in game.

I'd also let the Barbarian take the brunt of combat. That's what he's there for...

[Ellowryn]

Crusader, or rather any class from ToB, gives you Mountain Hammer and its derivative strikes that flat out ignore DR. All of it. And hardness too making it really nice when you need something smashed. If the Dm doesnt want to give you at least some gear, instead of going dwarf grab warforged and the adamantite body feat that way your body is adamantite full plate that cannot be taken away cause it is your body. Plus the natural slam means you can use your strikes even without a weapon, and also the race also comes with a con bonus. This wont negate being 3 levels down but at least it would give you a chance to not be 1-shot.

[Metahuman1]

Prioritize getting weight reductions on a tower shield, and getting a collar of perpetual attendance. Have the unseen servant form the collar hold up the shield to give you cover, and thus, a 50% miss chance.

[Totema]

I didn't know there were DMs that actually enforce the "new PCs start at lower levels" rule. It seems like a big kick to the ****: die once, and you're going to be a load for the rest of the campaign. You even end up more likely to die again as a reult, leading to a positive feedback loop of everyone involved having a bad time.

[Immabozo]

I am with everyone else. You need to talk to your DM, because you are too far behind to contribute effectively.

Check out this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?343813-Help-making-a-melee-tank-My-ideas-your-suggestions), it went over the same thing just recently and it reached a very viable tank build

[Trasilor]

This build...

Not my design but a great tanking build (note that it was designed for level 8)

Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b), Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), in that order. Pay 3,000 xp to get rid of the +1 LA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Gaining Mineral Warrior after Dragonborn means you don't lose any of the Mineral Warrior benefits. You could even use the Wings aspect for Dragonborn and still get a fly speed, since Mineral Warrior only removes whatever fly speed you already had when it was gained. You'll still gain the fly speed when you hit 6th level. You can't fly if you're carrying more than a light load, but note that medium armor does not necessarily constitute a medium load (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fly). That means you'll have a land, swim, burrow, and fly speed.

Crusader from Tome of Battle is probably the best tanking class in the game. Between the damage reduction from Mineral Warrior, and the interaction between the Crusader's delayed damage pool with Stone Power and strikes that heal himself, the character can be extremely difficult to kill. If you allow flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm)(UA) then Bravado from Dragon 328 should be fitting, which was intended for half-orcs but would suit an orc just fine. The character can't benefit from any Dodge bonuses to AC, and cannot use the Withdraw action, since he never shows weakness or backs down from an opponent. A character can have up to two flaws, for two extra feats. Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm)are also useful and you can get up to two, Quick would give +10 ft. land speed (and +5 ft. burrow speed from Mineral Warrior) and its drawback can be negated with the Improved Toughness feat. That would make for a relentless warrior who would probably end up getting himself into trouble quite often, but could likely handle it better than most. Ability scores should prioritize Str > Con > Dex > everything else.

I'd just go Crusader 8, and with two flaws get Extra Granted Maneuver, Stone Power, Shield Specialization, Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)*, and Shield Ward. For flaws I'd get Bravado and probably Shaky or Murky-Eyed, with the Quick trait since his Con should be high enough to easily make up the HP loss. Stances should be Bolstering Voice, Martial Spirit, and Thicket of Blades, maneuvers known at 8th level should be Divine Surge, White Raven Tactics, Revitalizing Strike, Defensive Rebuke, Battle Leader's Charge, Mountain Hammer, Charging Minotaur, and Crusader's Strike. With 8th level WBL, items should be a +1 heavy steel shield, +1 Blurring (MIC) Breastplate, a Healing Belt (MIC), a +1 Cloak of Resistance, an Anklet of Translocation (MIC), and your item familiar: a +1 Wrathful Healing piercing one-handed melee weapon, detailed below. Flying creatures can make a dive attack with a piercing weapon, as per Races of the Dragon; I'd make it a trident, he is a water orc after all.

Item Familiars are great, you pay full price for the initial item which must be at least 2,000 gp, a +1 weapon in this case, and then you can upgrade it yourself as though you had all the proper feats. Just say you hired an NPC spellcaster or convinced another party member to cast any necessary spells for the upgrade. Wrathful Healing is in Enemies and Allies, it costs a +3 and requires a casting of Regenerate to craft (NPC spellcasting standard fee is 910 gp), and any time the weapon deals damage the wielder is healed for half of that amount. So you pay the initial 2,000 gp plus the masterwork weapon price for the +1 weapon, make it an item familiar, and the price to upgrade it to a +4 equivalent weapon is 30,000 gp, so you'd pay 15,000 gp and 1,200 xp. That puts you down a total of 4,200 xp between this and buying off that +1 LA, but Invest Experience gives you a 10% bonus to your current and future XP. Minimum for 8th level is 28,000, +10% is 30,800, minus the 4,200 leaves you with 26,600 xp total, only 1,400 short of 8th level. If the game is starting at the minimum for 8th level then this character will have to start at 7th and will likely hit 8th after the first session, which is acceptable. Do note that an item familiar is an intelligent item and thus considered a construct, so it cannot be dispelled or disjoined and functions in an antimagic field, and it's considerably difficult to destroy; get a lock gauntlet just in case.

For your skills, you're probably going to have a low Int score (in the neighborhood of 6 or 8) and you're going to definitely want max ranks in Balance. Jump, Intimidate, and Diplomacy are also useful, and you can trade Ride for Tumble (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) as a class skill, although you can't use Tumble in armor that slows your land speed but 5 ranks still gives you a synergy bonus. You can invest skill ranks into your item familiar to gain a free bonus to checks with certain skills, if you gain Item Familiar at 3rd level you can invest all of your 4th+ level skill ranks into it. I'd probably put most of that toward Balance and Jump.

Your readied maneuvers should be Divine Surge, Revitalizing Strike, White Raven Tactics, Battle Leader's Charge, and Mountain Hammer. I'd use Bolstering Voice most of the time, though Martial Spirit is useful if you or your party is taking a lot of damage. Your tactics will largely depend on which maneuvers you have available, but some should take priority over others.

Ideally, you'll want to begin with a dive attack using Battle Leader's Charge.
Use White Raven Tactics every time it's available to give yourself another turn, yes it does work that way (PHB p304, 'ally' refers to yourself by default unless the ability says otherwise).
Use Divine Surge whenever possible.
Use Revitalizing Strike if you or one of your party members has taken damage, or if you have damage in your delayed pool.
Use Mountain Hammer or a full attack along with Stone Power if you've taken damage and/or have damage in your delayed pool.

Your Earth Strike ability from Mineral Warrior is useful if you have difficulty hitting an opponent, it's especially good to ensure that a Revitalizing Strike or Divine Surge lands. With Extra Granted Maneuver you'll be able to use each of your readied maneuvers every three rounds. That means every three rounds you'll get four turns with White Raven Tactics, so you'll have one Divine Surge, one Revitalizing Strike, and two rounds to mix in Battle Leader's Charge+Dive Attack, Stone Power, and full attacks. You can use the Anklet of Translocation to get out of one opponent's reach without provoking an AoO to Dive Attack an opponent who's attacking another party member.


EDIT: Talk to your DM. As a new character - you should be at least the average party level. Starting with no gear is no fun. Make sure you talk to him about getting it back ASAP. It is a game where all are supposed to have fun :)

[Trasilor]

Prioritize getting weight reductions on a tower shield, and getting a collar of perpetual attendance. Have the unseen servant form the collar hold up the shield to give you cover, and thus, a 50% miss chance.

I thought the tower shield gave you total cover - i.e. cannot be target of attacks. Total concealment gives you the 50% miss chance.

[Immabozo]

I thought the tower shield gave you total cover - i.e. cannot be target of attacks. Total concealment gives you the 50% miss chance.

And none magic invisibility! Just roll a hide check! Once successful, your shield disappears too!

[Rebel7284]

I think the cleric/crusader multiclass is one of the best tanking combination in D&D. Crusader gives you great maneuvers and delayed damage pool while cleric gives you the ability, with Divine Metamagic, to have your buffs going all day and spells like Close Wounds.

And of course Ruby Knight Vindicator progresses both and gives you a great ability to get extra actions at RKV 7.

[RolkFlameraven]

Isn't you new guy supposed to be the party's ECL -1 not one level lower then your last guy? So shouldn't you be level 4 not three? Or am I remembering the rule wrong?

Also, remember that your exp per fight is going to be higher then the rest of your party and that 4th lvl pally should be getting more then either level 6 as well. Its not much at only one level down and it takes a LONG time to catch up but if you are two or three lower... IE if he keeps tossing CR 6's at your party then the two lvl 6's get 450, the four gets 600 and if you are truly stuck at lvl 3 and stay alive you're getting 675. Its not much but you also need quite a bit less exp to level then those level 6's should.

Besides that, being three levels lower then half of your party are you sure you want to be the tank here? There IS a barb AND a pally so mixing it up in melee and saying "eat me" might not be the best idea...

I hate to say it, but with your stats a Wis, Sor or Psi would be better options.

If you really want to tank then Crusader or Knight are two of the few "tank" classes that let you TANK by making or at lest encouraging things to attack you over the rest of the party. Fighter, sadly, does not.