Any homebrewing guidelines and rules of thumb?

[qazzquimby]

- Assuming 3.5, but probably functions for Pathfinder -

Short of copying and tweaking an existing class, it's hard for me to tell what is reasonable when building a class (and even copying is dangerous considering how unbalanced much of core is). As a main feature of a class, is an at will touch attack with a range of 15ft, dealing 1d6 damage per level reasonable? I've honestly no clue. I've also picked up trends, such as not giving spell emulating abilities much before the spell would be available to a wizard, not giving fly before level 6 for example, but I don't know if that's important.

If such information exists tangibly in the minds of greater playgrounders, could it be collected? If a melee class had a once per day ability that added straight damage onto a melee attack, how much? If a class gains fast healing, when and to what extent? How much casting do you give to a T3?

I think standards for abilities should assume they are the focus of the class, and thus the pinnacle of the ability in normal circumstances. Fractions of the strength would then be used when building a more blended class, as the case would nearly always be.

If the idea seems vague and undeveloped, it probably is. Hopefully people get the gist of it and a resource can be made.

[Xefas]

1.) Have a vision. Stay true to your vision. Power is relative. The scale for power is so varied in D&D that, unless you're aiming at a particular tier of power, you're better off realizing your vision and calling that success. A class strong enough to go toe-to-toe with a Wizard is not overpowered in a party with Wizards - but it should be transparent about how powerful it is. A class weak enough to go toe-to-toe with a Samurai is fine in a party with Samurais - but it should be transparent about how weak it is. A failure of vision - to create a class that is counter to the story you want to tell - that is failure.

2.) Get inspired. When someone says "I have this great idea for a class! It does 1d6 damage per level!", it gives me the impression that they don't have an over-abundance of inspiration. Read stories, listen to music, watch TV, take a walk in the park, and play games. Not just D&D - lots of RPGs. Not just RPGs - video games, board games, war games, word games, and so on. And when you have an idea that pains you because it doesn't already exist, make it real through whatever means you have available. Your means might be homebrewing D&D stuff. You'll probably make something good.

3.) Never get involved with a land war in Asia. Unless you're writing an adventure module about a land war in Asia. In which case, that's pretty rad, because we have a hundred-thousand classes on this board, but not a lot of special-brewed characters, encounters, and adventures.

[qazzquimby]

I mean not to devalue your wise words, but I'm mostly hoping to better balance things at the power level I want them. If my class is summoning pillars of burning light from the sky, I need to ensure the light isn't world shattering or an irritating zap.

Your own work is proof of the worth of your advice though, it is appreciated.

[JeminiZero]

Whether it is a white cat or a black cat, a cat that catches mice is a good cat.

Similiarly, the test of how strong a class is, lies in actual usage experience. That means playtesting of some sort. For combat, the best way is probably to run sample encounters with your class (preferably in a balanced party, with other characters filling the roles that your class does not) and note how it performs relative to the others.


A class strong enough to go toe-to-toe with a Wizard is not overpowered in a party with Wizards - but it should be transparent about how powerful it is. A class weak enough to go toe-to-toe with a Samurai is fine in a party with Samurais

As an addendum to this, to the extent that the class is transparent about its power, YOU as the creator must FIRST understand its power. You don't want to end up like the Lightning Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7029114&postcount=6)*, and say that your class "sacrifices power for flavor", when it is in fact silly strong.

*Arguably the creator of the Lightning Warrior was trolling. Nonetheless I have cited this as it is the best known example of a class where its creator claims that it is weak (regardless of his motives), when it is in fact far FAR stronger than a Wizard.

[TheFamilarRaven]

- Assuming 3.5, but probably functions for Pathfinder -

Short of copying and tweaking an existing class, it's hard for me to tell what is reasonable when building a class (and even copying is dangerous considering how unbalanced much of core is). As a main feature of a class, is an at will touch attack with a range of 15ft, dealing 1d6 damage per level reasonable? I've honestly no clue. I've also picked up trends, such as not giving spell emulating abilities much before the spell would be available to a wizard, not giving fly before level 6 for example, but I don't know if that's important.

Well, let's go back to what Xefas said "Power is relative". My best recommendation (especially if it's your first homebrew class), is to look for a similar class feature. For instance, a ranged touch attach that deals 1d6 points of damage and scales by level, sounds very similar to the Warlock's Eldritch blast. Nothing wrong with that, since we're comparing it by power level. Now, Eldritch blast can only go up to 9d6 (which pisses the living HELL outta me and my self diagnosed OCD regarding even numbered capstones, although intervals of 5 are okay ...) So, you're ability does more damage than eldritch blast, but eldritched blast can be modified by other cool features of the warlock, so far this ability can't, so 1d6 per level ISN'T too ridiculous.

Then compare it with other classes. Sure, you might be out damaging a rogue's Sneak attack, but rogues get multiple sneak attacks in a round, and so far, you only give one (although it's against touch ac so you're chance to hit is far greater). And then compare to a wizard or cleric, who can still easily outclass that amount of damage. Granted their spells are limited and most come with saving throws, but still, they're all around versatility makes their spells stronger than your suggested class feature.

So all in all, I wouldn't say it's a stretch for a class to have this class feature, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a great main feature. Your creation should be something that screams "I'M AWESOME", even if you're the only one who can hear it. If you are (or have been) a DM, I find that thinking of classes that might fit the flavor of a campaign setting/world you're fond of really ups the awesome factor, because tabletop games are not supposed to be about winning (which I think is a fact often ignored), but about playing interesting characters with interesting roles (rather than rolls), and working together to solve problems and tell a story.


If such information exists tangibly in the minds of greater playgrounders, could it be collected? If a melee class had a once per day ability that added straight damage onto a melee attack, how much? If a class gains fast healing, when and to what extent? How much casting do you give to a T3?

Once again, looking at other classes with those features helps guide homebrewers to reasonable degrees. For straight up damage added to a melee attack? well, that sounds like Smite Evil. It's situational, but it can be a pretty nice boost. Fast Healing? (Actually I can't think of any classes off the top of my head that have this BUT ....) Well, you may not want fast healing to be a constant effect, so we'll need to give it a duration. As for the amount healed, I'm sure there's some monsters (like vampires) that can give us a pretty good estimate on whats the norm. As for tier 3 casting, as you'll need as much casting as the class needs to be VERY specialized. I believe Beguilers, for example, are considered tier 3.


I think standards for abilities should assume they are the focus of the class, and thus the pinnacle of the ability in normal circumstances. Fractions of the strength would then be used when building a more blended class, as the case would nearly always be.

It sounds like you have a firm grasp of the general idea of class creation and balance, just remember that a class that can only do one thing is not really a class unless it has soul, or steals souls to make up for that fact it doesn't have one. Which reminds me I haven't seen a good Soul Stealing class in awhile


If the idea seems vague and undeveloped, it probably is. Hopefully people get the gist of it and a resource can be made.

My final piece of advice. Write your idea up, and not just a little bit. Try to finish this class and then post it to the forums. People might love it, people might hate, people might think it's decent, or maybe the worst thing happens, people won't read it. But even if the latter happens, there's always resources like the PEACH exchange that can guilt people into giving you a review. help exchange ideas. And whatever review you get, you can always tweak the class and refine it as many times as you think need be. In other words, the class is only a failure if you give up on it.

Hope I helped a little, and sorry for the rant.

[Amechra]

It all boils down to experience.

Really, the only way to learn how to balance things is to write a <whatever>, get it PEACHed, and then do better next time.

Be prepared to not get any PEACHes. If you don't get 'em, that means whatever you wrote is in that middle ground where it doesn't light the world on fire by being amazing, but isn't terrible. (This is my category. Not bitter about it. Not at all.)

It's entirely a case of writing your class that calls BURNING COLUMNS OF LIGHT!!, and then waiting for someone to say something like "wait a minute, that shouldn't be dealing 10d6 per level at-will. You'll want to change that."

Beyond that... just remember that the chassis doesn't figure into balance that much (I mean, Wizard with full BAB is kinda something to avoid, but if your concept demands a Good progression for all the saves with d12 HD, don't sweat it.)

I mean, don't know what else to tell you; everyone homebrews differently.

I mean, compare Xefas and I; when he writes a class, he starts from the concept and bases everything off that concept. Then, in my case... my most popular classes were literally started as "I should totally make a class that using 3d6 in place of d20s" and "I want more Aberrant feats. MOAR!" My concept-based stuff ends up being terrible.

So, I guess what I'm saying is:

Try stuff out until you find a method that works for you.
Homebrew your butt off; your first Homebrew isn't likely to be any good. Homebrewing is a skill, like writing a novel or knife-fighting.
Ascend to the Invisible Choir as the Martyr Homebrewer. I mean, unlikely, but we all need goals to shoot for.
Read other homebrew, especially stuff by established Homebrewers. I suggest sirpercival, Krimm Blackleaf, and Prime32; The Vorpal Tribble basically wrote the book on homebrewing monsters, and, well, you probably know the other currently popular homebrewers (Ziegander, The Demented One, Garryl, Xefas, etc, etc)
If you want to see examples of stuff, just ask; for example, my stuff is usually balanced at a power level a tick lower than Xefas' stuff.


I can definitely give help with balancing feats, though; I think I've written well over a hundred.

[Glimbur]

To echo what has been said before, it's mostly a matter of experience. You can take established classes as a benchmark: don't be better at spellcasting than a wizard, don't be better at nature-ing than a druid, but you quickly run into problems. What class should you not out-shine in melee combat? What if you want to have better skills and animal companion but not spell casting, can you then out-nature a druid? What if you want to do something really off-the-wall and not well represented by current mechanics?

As a general rule, I think carefully before I give access to spell-like effects before a full caster would get access to them. Some spells are underpowered and ok to hand out early, especially if it is what a class focuses on, but it's a starting point.

The other thing I try to do is make it possible for different members of the same class to be different. That is why my later home-brew includes more groups of abilities that you can pick from, and less of 'this feature is what every member of the class gets this level'. It makes it harder to balance but I like the final outcome more. Usually.

PEACHes are very often helpful but hard to get. Entering into a contest can get you more PEACHes, especially if you offer some to other people. Then you are constrained by the contest, but I find the constraints inspire me.

In summary, just keep trying and see what happens.

[1pwny]

Like a lot of people have said, do whatever works for you.

People on this forum are optimizers. There is no way around that. No matter what you do, someone is going to think of some genius way to abuse it.*

That's fine. It's fine, and can actually be fun to hear about ways to do things you never even could be done with your idea.

As long as you don't design your class with the intention of it being optimized/overpowered, then whatever you design will work. It's that simple.

Just keep an eye out for HD. 1d6 damage per level is about how many hitpoints a Con 10 Wizard gets.

*Unless your idea is a fighter.

[qazzquimby]

My final piece of advice. Write your idea up, and not just a little bit.
I don't actually have an idea I'm struggling with, I just find balancing to be difficult whenever I do.


My concept-based stuff ends up being terrible.
Weren't the resider in dreams, the name-me-not, and the shape changing living story (which I forget the name of, but believe was yours) all concept based? Those are some of most interesting classes I've ever read.

Thanks everyone for the advice. This is a great community.

[TheFamilarRaven]

I don't actually have an idea I'm struggling with, I just find balancing to be difficult whenever I do.

Then all that's left to say is: if you think you're no good at balancing stuff ... there's always other people who'll tell you how unbalanced some mechanics are. So just write up a homebrew, do your best to balance it, then work the kinks out later.