Handling Lycanthropy

[Reshy]

Quick question but I've been wondering: how should a DM handle players should they get infected with lycanthropy in 3.5? I can't find any good answers for this and the adventure we're playing has a encounter Lycanthrope in it and the possibility exists one of them could get infected with it.

[Afgncaap5]

My suggestion would be to treat the lycanthrope as a secondary character outside of the player's control. Sure, the character might gain bonuses during the day when it's awake, but if it poses an active danger to the other players at night then the liabilities might start to outweigh the benefits.

Have cures available in nearby towns, but I'd attempt to make it feel hard to get. (A town actively refusing to let adventurers in if there's any indication that they might be werewolves might only be a minor setback if the next city is only a few hours away, but it can make the players seriously question how things are going to turn out.)

[zingbobco000]

I would do it like Afgnn, make it an NPC of the charecters class that is the alignment of the given one in the MM. You should have a side-quest, such as they must search for a powerful druid, who asks them to do a side-quest and will then cure the affliction. If the afflicted PC doens't want to change just make him an NPC every time he transforms. Also, you must lower his/her level according to the LA adjustment on the template. In time (a couple levels) the PC would be able to control the transformation if the alignment is within one of his/hers lawful evil -> neutral evil, or lawful neutral etc...

[Reshy]

One of the things that worries me is the alignment change, especially since it gets basically impossible to make the will save after a few changes. It'll screw any alignment based class like the paladin. Any tips on how to control them when they become an NPC? How should I handle voluntary changes? Just enforce they play the correct alignment during the shift if they fail a will check or something?

[Phelix-Mu]

One of the things that worries me is the alignment change, especially since it gets basically impossible to make the will save after a few changes. It'll screw any alignment based class like the paladin. Any tips on how to control them when they become an NPC? How should I handle voluntary changes? Just enforce they play the correct alignment during the shift if they fail a will check or something?

The best way to handle this is to divorce actions taken while a lycanthrope from the character's alignment. I ignore the explicit alignment change, anyway, since it always irritated me that some types of animals make you evil, others don't...too much real-world bias, I suppose.

So, the way this works, for let's say a paladin, would be that the paladin is LG. While in lycanthrope form, the npc is still LG, but then goes and does some terrible stuff under the compulsion/mind-affectingness of the curse. Once the paladin is back in control and realizes/figures out what happened, the paladin must quickly seek to atone (as per spell) and perform substantial penance to make up for the damage, and seek a cure or otherwise ensure that, under no circumstances, will they be free to rampage out of control again.

If the paladin fails to do this, alignment change follows, along with temporary loss of powers. If the paladin dallies or allows another change to occur without countermeasures, that may constitute a more permanent fall.

My basis for doing it this way is that there is some gray space in the game between the actions that are good/evil, and those actions changing the alignment of the person that commits them. Since the lycanthrope is not in control of themselves during an afflicted transformation, I'd allow the character extra leeway to seek forgiveness and atonement.

Note, this doesn't mean it should be anything less than an earth-shaking crisis for the paladin in terms of role playing.

[Vizzerdrix]

This is how my last DM handled it: Only one save vs alignment shift. Fail and you go one step towards TN. As for the lycanthropy we used the levels from the wotc site to handle it gradually.

[Seto]

Got bitten by a werewolf last session. Don't know if I made the save. In case I didn't, I'm waiting to see how my DM will handle it. My character failed her Bardic Knowledge check about the werewolf, however, and basically doesn't know about the affliction, so there's no way she could seek a cure before the next full moon (unless a NPC tells her or whatever).

Personally, I'd do it by the book. Unwanted alignment change really sucks and I'd dislike it if it happened to my character. And that's without even mentioning the forced transformation of one's body and mind, which can be heartbreaking if you're attached to your character. And I don't think the mechanical bonuses offset that. But it's the game, bad things happen, and it's coherent enough (an evil personality is born within you and you must struggle not to be overcome, so Will save. If you succeed, you keep it at bay and you have two distinct personalities until you find a cure. If you fail, you make its animal urges yours and the two personalities fuse). So I'd do it by the book. Only, I'd make sure opportunities of being cured are readily available (in the form of plot hooks), not forced upon you but not too hard to come by. And especially, knowledge of it : it's easier to get cured if you know and have the means to boost your Will save.

[Phelix-Mu]

The part about the book interpretation that I don't like is that, if a wolf is born inside of you, congrats, you're a murderer. If it's a bear born inside of you, congrats, you're a champion of goodness. If it's a tiger, meh, tigers don't care. Always seemed really poorly substantiated, and hearkens back to the real-world European/American views on wolves being evil, bears being noble (though I still don't get how tigers end up where they are), a belief that hardly holds in-game where animals are hardly the most fearsome aspect of the woods/wilderness (and where a good amount of sentients wouldn't view animals in that adversarial light in the first place).

But that's all fluff. The mechanic underlying the change doesn't bother me so much as the arbitrary nature of the new persona. If the curse sucks and warps your mind, it should do it whether you turn into a wolf, bear, boar, rat, whatever. It's not like the transformation and psychic trauma will be less for a weretiger or werebear, after all.

[Fouredged Sword]

Remember, alignment changes are easy to reverse. An atonement spell is expensive, but not unobtainable. The character spends a night rampaging though a village, turns CE, and wakes up without their powers. First thing they do? Get to the local church and get help form the local cleric to find out what is wrong. Most gods are fairly forgiving of people who mess up not through choice, but a failed save. Breaking the curse after it sets in is also possible. I think you just need to get the right spell cast within 3 days of a full moon or something.

[Vizzerdrix]

Always seemed really poorly substantiated, and hearkens back to the real-world European/American views on wolves being evil, bears being noble (though I still don't get how tigers end up where they are),

Hey now, State side we'd have bears be CE if you talked to any woodsman (Loggers, campers, hunters, etc.). Far, far too many tales of the nasty things tracking people for weeks, slowly harrying them and finally attacking them. Grizzlies mostly, but the smaller black bears can be a just as bad.

[Shining Wrath]

I like the idea of the lycanthrope as an NPC.

I also like the idea that the PC, when they realize they have an NPC sharing their body, will seek to atone for the deeds of the NPC, assuming the PC has a non-evil alignment.

I suggest, though, that this be ... complicated. See, any sincere atonement means seeking out those wronged and attempting restitution, and there's not too many ways to approach grieving parents and say "Gee, I'm sorry the beast inhabiting my body during full moons tore your child into shreds". The locals are likely to seek a permanent solution to the threat posed by the were-beast. This may mean that a good aligned character doesn't want to atone, because they might be killed as a result.

Unless the module specifies the alignment of the lycanthrope, I suggest dicing for it. There's no particular reason why wolves need to be evil, as others have pointed out.

[zingbobco000]

One of the things that worries me is the alignment change, especially since it gets basically impossible to make the will save after a few changes. It'll screw any alignment based class like the paladin. Any tips on how to control them when they become an NPC? How should I handle voluntary changes? Just enforce they play the correct alignment during the shift if they fail a will check or something?

You can control them like you would a normal monster of that race. Trying to kill the characters or to burn a town or something like that look at the alignment description and do something similar to that. If they change voluntarily they can still act as their alignment as long as it is within 1 change of the template's. Let's say a paladin gets bitten by a werewolf. The werewolf inside becomes an NPC and whenever it's a full moon he/she becomes a werewolf involuntarily, if the paladin learns to control the werewolf that is considered an act of evil and they cannot progress in paladin levels until they atone. If the change is non-voluntary nothing happens.

[Shining Wrath]

Hey now, State side we'd have bears be CE if you talked to any woodsman (Loggers, campers, hunters, etc.). Far, far too many tales of the nasty things tracking people for weeks, slowly harrying them and finally attacking them. Grizzlies mostly, but the smaller black bears can be a just as bad.

Two words: Kodiak Bears.

You really, really don't want to be the guy that a Kodiak decides looks tasty. They aren't likely to track you for weeks, though; they are pretty direct about getting what they want.

[Magesmiley]

I've actually had this come up in my current campaign. One of the players was infected by a wereboar.

I'm surprised that no one has referenced the Savage Progressions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp) yet. One thing of note is that if you use the rules there, the character changes form but doesn't have the attacks and special abilities as an animal until he/she puts levels into the progression. The net effect is that a PC recently infected that is in animal form is most likely to just run off, as he/she can't really fight as an animal.

Until the character knows that he/she is changing, handle the character's time as an animal as an NPC. Once he/she is aware of it (via the DC 15 Wisdom check), let the player run the character. I'd play the alignment change by the book - Will save needed to avoid the change. Assuming that the PC doesn't make any voluntary changes, it is likely that the players will be able to get it cured before an alignment change happens.

Yes, if they do blow the save it can hose certain classes, at least temporarily (the PC is my campaign was a cleric who had to change her deity as a result of the alignment change). Dealing with the change can make a nice RP exercise or a turning point in a character too. Clerics are pretty obvious - they need to find a new deity. In the case of the paladin, consider allowing him/her to switch over to one of the paladin variants from Unearthed Arcana.

Also, with PCs being the difficult people that they are, be prepared for them to consider staying a lycanthrope too.

[Seto]

The part about the book interpretation that I don't like is that, if a wolf is born inside of you, congrats, you're a murderer. If it's a bear born inside of you, congrats, you're a champion of goodness. If it's a tiger, meh, tigers don't care.

Oh right, that. Yeah, I agree with you. In every lore ever, lycanthropy is meant to represent the darkest and most ferocious animal instincts hidden deep within us, and that make every person turn into a beast sometime in our lives. Not a TN animal, but a rampaging and savage beast. So, IMO "lycanthropy" should be an affliction that works the same regardless of the animal that transmitted it, and turns someone CE.

On a more personal note, I find kinda ridiculous that there even are several kinds of lycanthrope forms. The wolf is iconic, emblematic, and instinctively I have trouble with anything else. Wererat, weretiger ? Ok, why not, I guess. Wereboar, werecrocodile ? Whoa, that's a stretch. Sounds like a parody to me. (Wallace and Gromit : The Curse of the Were Rabbit, I'm looking at you. And winking.)
But that's because I've always enjoyed perusing werewolf lore. It's sort of like the reaction someone would have if you showed them a purple pen, as they had seen only blue pens in their life before. At first glance it might come across as cheesy or stupid, even though there's no serious objection to make about it.

[Ionbound]

There are different Lycanthropes from different cultures. The wolf is western European, the tiger is Asian, the bear is North American, the boar is Eastern European, and I think the crocodile is African.

[Seto]

There are different Lycanthropes from different cultures. The wolf is western European, the tiger is Asian, the bear is North American, the boar is Eastern European, and I think the crocodile is African.

Oooh, ok. That makes more sense that way.

[Fouredged Sword]

I agree with the darker instinct side of things. It would be cool to have a were-based 3.5 game (fighting them, not being them) with different were creatures acting as standins for the 7 sins.

Gluttony - Were-croc
Greed - Were-Giant Raven
Wrath - Were-Bear
Lust - Were-Rat
Envy - Were-wolf
Price - Were-Tiger
Sloth - Were-Boar

That's just the top of my head idea. Neat to think about, but it would probably take some more detail work.

Maybe E6 to keep them all scary...

[Phelix-Mu]

I agree with the darker instinct side of things. It would be cool to have a were-based 3.5 game (fighting them, not being them) with different were creatures acting as standins for the 7 sins.

Gluttony - Were-croc
Greed - Were-Giant Raven
Wrath - Were-Bear
Lust - Were-Rat
Envy - Were-wolf
Price - Were-Tiger
Sloth - Were-Boar

That's just the top of my head idea. Neat to think about, but it would probably take some more detail work.

Maybe E6 to keep them all scary...

That's a pretty cool idea. Switch Were-boar with were-bear, though. Boars are the manifestation of angry whenever they meet a threat, and bears are easily more relaxed on a regular basis (in addition to the hibernation thing). Lol, I made some were-badgers back in 2e, lol. Now those were angry.

[ddude987]

How we handled it in a game I'm in now is we ignored alignment change, since we use the 5 color system the DM might have added green but the character was already green. Then, the player had control while in lycan form, but role played it appropriately even in combat. Lastly, the lycan template was nerfed so the player didn't have to eat LA or RHD, which is fair.

As far as the reasoning, at least in our group, we generally stay away from the DM forcibly changing PC characters mechanically or controlling PC characters. That said, as a group we can all trust each other enough to role play without metagaming and not breaking the game.

[Reshy]

I'm actually pretty big into werewolves in literature. Maybe I could try to adapt a system like I get in the books.


The common themes in the books I have read is that Lycanthropy and it's variants are usually a Magical Disease that like any other disease exists to propagate. In the books I read generally speaking there's a couple of variations, sometimes the lycanthrope has little to no control over the animal form, other times they have complete control but it subtle alters their behavior to become more combative. Either way the lycanthrope typically suffers from involuntary changes due to the lunar cycle, injury and more importantly, anger. Now that could certainly be interesting for D&D, if the player or the character gets angry they are forced to make a control shape check or begin changing into one of the two possible forms. That means that it becomes a pretty crippling social disability as if you're dealing with an idiot or an ******* you might turn into a monster and try to murder them. In the books however they're usually shown as being quick healers rather than having ultra-touch adamantine-like flesh. I could always just do some homebrew thing where I adapt these some of these concepts into a homebrew variant at a later date.


In the mean time however I think might do this:


Allow Afflicted to infect with a lower DC, maybe 10?

Ignore Alignment Changes on a failed save, instead it becomes a temporary alignment shift to chaotic evil that counts as a mind-affecting spell and applies a suggestion to bite humanoids. The PC has no memory of the events that transpire upon a failed save. Each time the save is failed the will DC resets to 15. If the player doesn't act in line with their alignment and attempt to follow the suggestion than they become an NPC under the DM's control.

If the player or character gets angry they must make a will save or involuntarily change.


Think this would work?

[Melayl]

You could check out Sean K. Reynolds' Curse of the Moon supplement. It's available from various places (http://www.seankreynolds.com/skrg/products/005COTM/cotm.html) on his website. I know some folks here don't like him, but that particular supplement seems pretty reasonable to me. Mechanics for controlling the change, dealing with the HD and LA problems, etc.

[jaydubs]

I really have to question the idea of lycanthropy = NPC.

It's essentially, fail a save and the player spends a significant amount of time not being able to play. Does that sound like fun?

Even when bad things happen to the characters, the players should still be able to have a good time. Failure can be funny. Character death can be exhilarating, or tragic, or heroic. But not having a character to control at all? Not so much.

[Phelix-Mu]

I really have to question the idea of lycanthropy = NPC.

It's essentially, fail a save and the player spends a significant amount of time not being able to play. Does that sound like fun?

Even when bad things happen to the characters, the players should still be able to have a good time. Failure can be funny. Character death can be exhilarating, or tragic, or heroic. But not having a character to control at all? Not so much.

On the other hand, it's not really going to feel like that person's character if the DM is enforcing radical alignment change (or behaving as such). If it's now in-character for them to go around and murder people cause it's the full moon, some players might not want that either.

I'm all for player agency, but crappy stuff happens and sometimes we don't need all the detail that would be involved if the person is role playing the murder in-character. Rather, it all goes on offstage, and the party has to deal with the aftermath.

I'd probably leave it up to the player.

[Jeff the Green]

On a more personal note, I find kinda ridiculous that there even are several kinds of lycanthrope forms. The wolf is iconic, emblematic, and instinctively I have trouble with anything else. Wererat, weretiger ? Ok, why not, I guess. Wereboar, werecrocodile ? Whoa, that's a stretch. Sounds like a parody to me. (Wallace and Gromit : The Curse of the Were Rabbit, I'm looking at you. And winking.)
But that's because I've always enjoyed perusing werewolf lore. It's sort of like the reaction someone would have if you showed them a purple pen, as they had seen only blue pens in their life before. At first glance it might come across as cheesy or stupid, even though there's no serious objection to make about it.

The best part is when you realize that there's almost no animal that will pass up meat when it's available, and so almost anything is kosher for lycanthrope. Deer? Yep, they'll eat carrion and baby birds. Cows? They love rodents. The only animals in the MM I can find that really don't qualify are manta rays and baleen whales, and then only if you don't count zooplankton as animals.

[Reshy]

You could check out Sean K. Reynolds' Curse of the Moon supplement. It's available from various places (http://www.seankreynolds.com/skrg/products/005COTM/cotm.html) on his website. I know some folks here don't like him, but that particular supplement seems pretty reasonable to me. Mechanics for controlling the change, dealing with the HD and LA problems, etc.

I'll see about giving it a read and seeing what's reasonable out of the bunch. Do have to ask, why is he disliked?

[Shining Wrath]

I agree with the darker instinct side of things. It would be cool to have a were-based 3.5 game (fighting them, not being them) with different were creatures acting as standins for the 7 sins.

Gluttony - Were-croc
Greed - Were-Giant Raven
Wrath - Were-Bear
Lust - Were-Rat
Envy - Were-wolf
Price - Were-Tiger
Sloth - Were-Boar

That's just the top of my head idea. Neat to think about, but it would probably take some more detail work.

Maybe E6 to keep them all scary...

Lust totally the Were-Rabbit :-)

Not a bad idea.

[Fouredged Sword]

Lust totally the Were-Rabbit :-)

Not a bad idea.

See, I was thinking rats to represent all the horrid negative sides of unchecked lust. They spread disease, breed quickly, and destroy the area around themselves. I agree on the switching of bears and boar though.

[Shining Wrath]

See, I was thinking rats to represent all the horrid negative sides of unchecked lust. They spread disease, breed quickly, and destroy the area around themselves. I agree on the switching of bears and boar though.

Were - flies?

Read about rabbits and Australia sometime.

Were-minks, perhaps? Minks are supposed to be amorous in the extreme, and they are vicious little beggars.

[Lord Vukodlak]

You could look at it like this, instead of it being determined by type its determined by the creators alignment. A werewolf could be of any alignment and his afflicted offspring are always within a step of that.

Now because lyanthropy can cause a drastic change in alignment you don't just infect a person's body you infect the soul. Thus infecting people with lycanthropy is an evil act. Good aligned natural lycanthropes would avoid infecting others while neutral aligned lycanthropes would only do it in special circumstances. Evil would be the ones who delight at turning people into monsters.

Now Wolves and rats are pack animals(though different kinds of packs). So they would have a natural instinct to expand their pack. So with the progenitors of the curse the wolves and the rats expanded primarily via infection which corrupted them

And thus werewolves and wererats tend almost universally evil


In the books however they're usually shown as being quick healers rather than having ultra-touch adamantine-like flesh. I could always just do some homebrew thing where I adapt these some of these concepts into a homebrew variant at a later date.
Damage reduction can be described as either a tough hide that absorbs blows or instant regeneration. "Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly" So a DM is free to describe a lycanthropes damage reduction either way.

[Melayl]

I'll see about giving it a read and seeing what's reasonable out of the bunch. Do have to ask, why is he disliked?

I believe it to be due to the perception that his work isn't well balanced. I'm not certain, because I don't pay that much attention to the comments. :smalltongue:

[Dr. Cliché]

The part about the book interpretation that I don't like is that, if a wolf is born inside of you, congrats, you're a murderer. If it's a bear born inside of you, congrats, you're a champion of goodness. If it's a tiger, meh, tigers don't care. Always seemed really poorly substantiated, and hearkens back to the real-world European/American views on wolves being evil, bears being noble (though I still don't get how tigers end up where they are), a belief that hardly holds in-game where animals are hardly the most fearsome aspect of the woods/wilderness (and where a good amount of sentients wouldn't view animals in that adversarial light in the first place).

I agree - especially since natural lycanthropes have control over their transformations, I don't see why they should have fixed alignments.

I'd also argue that bears act more 'evil' than wolves, but there you go.:smalltongue:


But that's all fluff. The mechanic underlying the change doesn't bother me so much as the arbitrary nature of the new persona. If the curse sucks and warps your mind, it should do it whether you turn into a wolf, bear, boar, rat, whatever. It's not like the transformation and psychic trauma will be less for a weretiger or werebear, after all.

Indeed.


I'm actually pretty big into werewolves in literature. Maybe I could try to adapt a system like I get in the books.


The common themes in the books I have read is that Lycanthropy and it's variants are usually a Magical Disease that like any other disease exists to propagate. In the books I read generally speaking there's a couple of variations, sometimes the lycanthrope has little to no control over the animal form, other times they have complete control but it subtle alters their behavior to become more combative. Either way the lycanthrope typically suffers from involuntary changes due to the lunar cycle, injury and more importantly, anger. Now that could certainly be interesting for D&D, if the player or the character gets angry they are forced to make a control shape check or begin changing into one of the two possible forms. That means that it becomes a pretty crippling social disability as if you're dealing with an idiot or an ******* you might turn into a monster and try to murder them. In the books however they're usually shown as being quick healers rather than having ultra-touch adamantine-like flesh. I could always just do some homebrew thing where I adapt these some of these concepts into a homebrew variant at a later date.

If you ever do a homebrew variant along these lines, I'd love to see it. :smallbiggrin:


Damage reduction can be described as either a tough hide that absorbs blows or instant regeneration. "Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly" So a DM is free to describe a lycanthropes damage reduction either way.

Except that the 'wound heals immediately' aspect falls at the first hurdle with two broken legs.

I mean, lets say say you have a natural werewolf (with DR10), and someone does 15 damage to it. Well, it's 'wounds heal instantly' allowing it to recover 10 points of damage. So, lets say he murders the puny human (and so won't be taking any more damage). Well, by next round his wound will be fully healed, right? I mean, he's already healed 2/3 of the damage in no time at all - so in a few more seconds he should be completely fine, right? Nope.

Well, ok, give it 10 minutes - that should sort it out. Nope; still nothing.

An hour? Nope.

In fact, said werewolf would have to sleep for 8 hours to recover that damage. And, if he'd taken more damage than he had class levels, he'd have to rest even longer.

Yeah, those wounds are really healing immediately, aren't they? :smallsigh:

[JonU]

I'm going to derail this thread a little bit, but I have a question about the attack mechanics on a lycanthrope. Lets say you have two claw attacks, a bite, and a rake attack. If I charge first, I get the benefit of pounce which allows me to make a full attack. This full attack consists of two claws, a bite, and a rake attack assuming I succeed on the grapple check. My question is, what would the attack bonus be for each attack? Does it follow the -5 for subsequent attacks or would they all be the same or -2 or some other number? And in a round that I don't charge would i still get all my natural attacks?

Nevermind, I found a guide on natural weapons that should answer my questions.

[Reshy]

If you ever do a homebrew variant along these lines, I'd love to see it. :smallbiggrin:


I can do some variants based on books I read.


The True-curse variant where the infected individual is nearly impossible to kill for good without silver, but is nothing but a killing machine as a wolf and has zero control over their powers. No voluntary change, no save, no control until the next sunrise. [Based on the Frostbite Book by David Wellington]


The Alter-ego variant where the wolf is in essence a more feral version of yourself that will gladly take over for you to kill the jerk that spat in your face, whether you want it or not. [Based on Mercy Thompson & Kitty Norville]


Etc.


Just some generalistic ideas I'm thinking of.

[Jeff the Green]

Except that the 'wound heals immediately' aspect falls at the first hurdle with two broken legs.

I mean, lets say say you have a natural werewolf (with DR10), and someone does 15 damage to it. Well, it's 'wounds heal instantly' allowing it to recover 10 points of damage. So, lets say he murders the puny human (and so won't be taking any more damage). Well, by next round his wound will be fully healed, right? I mean, he's already healed 2/3 of the damage in no time at all - so in a few more seconds he should be completely fine, right? Nope.

Well, ok, give it 10 minutes - that should sort it out. Nope; still nothing.

An hour? Nope.

In fact, said werewolf would have to sleep for 8 hours to recover that damage. And, if he'd taken more damage than he had class levels, he'd have to rest even longer.

Yeah, those wounds are really healing immediately, aren't they? :smallsigh:

Think of it in this way. Healing IRL has roughly two phases. There's short-term clotting, scabbing, and inflammation (which brings blood to the area to fight infection and set up the next phase). Then there's the long-term granulation, rebuilding blood vessels, and creating new skin. The former happens very quickly for lycanthropes—their wounds clot quickly so they lose a lot less blood from each hit. The latter happens only as fast as normal for their base species, so the damage that is done has to heal as normal.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The player gains no benefit from their condition unless they spend levels to gain the Lycanthrope template (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp). They may still change involuntarily and gain the full benefits of the template when transformed, but they'll also lose control of their character during that time.

[Dr. Cliché]

Think of it in this way. Healing IRL has roughly two phases. There's short-term clotting, scabbing, and inflammation (which brings blood to the area to fight infection and set up the next phase). Then there's the long-term granulation, rebuilding blood vessels, and creating new skin. The former happens very quickly for lycanthropes—their wounds clot quickly so they lose a lot less blood from each hit. The latter happens only as fast as normal for their base species, so the damage that is done has to heal as normal.

I think you're stretching the definition of 'healing' here - especially since the description was "Wounds heal instantly", not "Wounds clot very fast and then take bloody ages to heal".

I mean, lets say I had a great slash wound in my side, which had only just finished clotting. If a doctor looked at it and said "Yep, that's healed up just fine." I think it would definitely justify a raised-eyebrow.

[Loxagn]

Hang on. Can paladins catch lycanthropy? Isn't it a disease?

Unrelated:

I actually do like an interpretation of lycanthropy that says the violent urges and transformations are a predictable result of rejecting or struggling to suppress the change, similar to what might happen if you attempted to shove a wild animal into a very small cage; it's theoretically possible to 'coexist' with the beast, although that usually takes a very specific form of training. It's why 'shamanistic' lycanthropes seem to be more benign; they're willingly embracing the 'animal' side.

Of course, if you're already a terrible person who enjoys killing, then the savage mauling might just be seen as a bonus.

[Reshy]

Hang on. Can paladins catch lycanthropy? Isn't it a disease?

Unrelated:

I actually do like an interpretation of lycanthropy that says the violent urges and transformations are a predictable result of rejecting or struggling to suppress the change, similar to what might happen if you attempted to shove a wild animal into a very small cage; it's theoretically possible to 'coexist' with the beast, although that usually takes a very specific form of training. It's why 'shamanistic' lycanthropes seem to be more benign; they're willingly embracing the 'animal' side.

Of course, if you're already a terrible person who enjoys killing, then the savage mauling might just be seen as a bonus.

It's kind of vague.


A lycanthrope in animal form fights like the animal it resembles, although its bite carries the disease of lycanthropy.

However, the ability itself is considered a Curse. So really it depends on what you feel takes priority. I myself interpret it as a self-propagating curse that spreads like a disease.

[Jeff the Green]

I think you're stretching the definition of 'healing' here - especially since the description was "Wounds heal instantly", not "Wounds clot very fast and then take bloody ages to heal".

I mean, lets say I had a great slash wound in my side, which had only just finished clotting. If a doctor looked at it and said "Yep, that's healed up just fine." I think it would definitely justify a raised-eyebrow.

No, I'm using the absolutely accurate, technical definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_healing) of healing. "Wounds heal instantly" absolutely does not require them to heal all the way. Clotting is healing (or at least, part of it). And your doctor would be inaccurate in saying it's "healed," but "healing" would be absolutely correct (assuming the clot was stable, there was adequate inflammation but not infection, etc.).

[Dr. Cliché]

No, I'm using the absolutely accurate, technical definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_healing) of healing. "Wounds heal instantly" absolutely does not require them to heal all the way. Clotting is healing (or at least, part of it). And your doctor would be inaccurate in saying it's "healed," but "healing" would be absolutely correct (assuming the clot was stable, there was adequate inflammation but not infection, etc.).

Again, I disagree.

The wound can't possibly have 'healed instantly' because it is still there.

Even if heamostasis is considered a stage in the healing process (the link you posted indicated that many feel otherwise), it is just that - a stage. It is the beginning of the healing process, but far from the entire process. And, again, the text does not say 'wounds clot instantly' or 'heamostasis is achieved immediately', no, the wounds 'heal immediately'. If one stage of healing has been completed, but the other's haven't, then the wounds can't possibly have 'healed instantly' - since, if it had, there would be no stages of healing left to complete.

[Fouredged Sword]

See, the way I see it is that Lycanthropes heal instantly, but it still takes it out of them. Their bodies are cursed, not blessed. You cut them, and they heal. If the wound is large, they still heal, but this time their bodies are taxed in healing. They draw fat and cells from their organs and other vital parts.

So yes, they can heal from any wound, but it's more that the damage is moved from a short term problem to a long term problem. They have to recover from their healing, or they find themselves killed by their own healing factor. They die not of their wounds, but of the exhaustion caused by their magically altered bodies being pressed past the breaking point.

[Dr. Cliché]

See, the way I see it is that Lycanthropes heal instantly, but it still takes it out of them. Their bodies are cursed, not blessed. You cut them, and they heal. If the wound is large, they still heal, but this time their bodies are taxed in healing. They draw fat and cells from their organs and other vital parts.

So yes, they can heal from any wound, but it's more that the damage is moved from a short term problem to a long term problem. They have to recover from their healing, or they find themselves killed by their own healing factor. They die not of their wounds, but of the exhaustion caused by their magically altered bodies being pressed past the breaking point.

That's a really interesting concept.

However, it also seems like one that would need a different mechanic - e.g. with the lycanthrope becoming fatigued/exhausted after healing so much damage, and perhaps suffering constitution damage if it didn't feed quickly enough afterwards.

I like the idea though. :smallbiggrin: