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View Full Version : A more agreeable Dread Necromancer?



Maerok
2007-02-11, 08:30 PM
The major problem I hear about with a DN is its DR. So instead of the typical DR, why not an equally appropriate negative energy resistance (5 -> 10 -> 15 -> 20)?

And then the +4 against negative energy effects at level 9 could be changed to a +2 or +4 versus death effects. Or even an ability to heal from negative energy so many times a day.

Everyman
2007-02-11, 08:44 PM
Believe me, the DR of a Dread Necromancer is not a breaking point for the class. They get so few hit points with just a d6 and are destined (with time) to lose their Con modifier. The DR is necessary to keep them combat ready, as they tend to be closer to the front lines to repair and maintain control of their "herd".

Maerok
2007-02-11, 08:57 PM
I know, but people still complain. >_>

And on the losing Con note, would Arcane Consumption work well with an undead creature? Can't take -4 Con, but by RAW would it work?

cupkeyk
2007-02-11, 09:17 PM
Wouldn't becoming a Lich allow them to reroll all their twenty hit dice as d12's? That is awesome even without con. Improved toughness thrown in, that's 20d12+20 for an average of 140!

Everyman
2007-02-11, 10:16 PM
I don't know if Arcane Consumption can work or not. I'll need to look in my books to decide. By my gut, I would say it probably would, unless it mentions that you need a Constituion to use the feat.

Back on the original topic, I've never heard anyone complain about DR Dread Necromancers get. For all the abilities they get, all Dread Necros are really getting is the lich template and very specialized spell list. They are by no means weak, but I wouldn't label anything about them "broken".

Rigeld2
2007-02-11, 11:23 PM
Wouldn't becoming a Lich allow them to reroll all their twenty hit dice as d12's? That is awesome even without con. Improved toughness thrown in, that's 20d12+20 for an average of 140!
20d6+60(16 Con isnt at all hard at level 20)=130 and it goes up with more con.

Also, I may be missing something, but wheres your +20 from?

Thomas
2007-02-11, 11:31 PM
Improved Toughness. He said so... :smallwink:

And 20d12 averages 6.5x20 or 130, so it's actually 150 with improved toughness.

TSGames
2007-02-12, 01:18 AM
I always thought that negative energy resistance was stupid for the class considering that they become undead...

cupkeyk
2007-02-12, 01:33 AM
I am saying a Dread Necro's Hitpoints is not an issue. It's walking around with an army of undead and not expecting to get run out of every town and city and occassionally attacked by dragons, archons and paladins. LOLz

Zincorium
2007-02-12, 01:41 AM
I am saying a Dread Necro's Hitpoints is not an issue. It's walking around with an army of undead and not expecting to get run out of every town and city and occassionally attacked by dragons, archons and paladins. LOLz

Yet another reason to play Eberron. Set the story in Karrnath. No longer are you a social outcast, you're also probably a war hero!

Jack Mann
2007-02-12, 01:43 AM
Well, if your Dread Necro has improved toughness, then he or she can have it without the change to undead. With the easily-obtainable 16 Con (say, 12, with a +4 item, cheap at high levels), he or she would have, on average, 150 hit points, the same as the average when he or she became a lich. Those d12 hit dice are not as nice as they seem. Remember, that's at the cost of a con score. That's part of the reason why the hit dice of undead rises so steeply with CR; without those hit dice, they end up relatively fragile.

Everyman
2007-02-12, 02:06 AM
Well, if your Dread Necro has improved toughness, then he or she can have it without the change to undead. With the easily-obtainable 16 Con (say, 12, with a +4 item, cheap at high levels), he or she would have, on average, 150 hit points, the same as the average when he or she became a lich. Those d12 hit dice are not as nice as they seem. Remember, that's at the cost of a con score. That's part of the reason why the hit dice of undead rises so steeply with CR; without those hit dice, they end up relatively fragile.

Hence the DR they recieve.

Thank you Jack. I think you summarized the reason DR is necessary for dread necromancers (whether intentionally or not).:smallsmile:

JaronK
2007-02-12, 02:11 AM
Negative Energy Resistance is silly... most DN's take Tomb Tainted Soul anyway. And no, Dread Necromancers aren't overpowered, nor are the underpowered. They're actually one of the best classes around, I think, for balance, plus they get nifty abilities as they level. You can PrC out, or not, and either way is a valid choice. I'd say they're one of the most well made classes out there, and shouldn't be tinkered with (except they really need Magic Circle against X on their spell list, to go with Planar Binding).

JaronK

cupkeyk
2007-02-12, 02:24 AM
Arcane Consumption is a once per day ability with two feat prerequisites. I mean, WTF is up with that?

Okay I guess if you are undead and immune to the con penalty and fatigue its okay to take but since most Dread Necromancers will have seven feats to expend through out his career it is sort of heavy.

Considering I think the character will take it at level eighteen when he still has a CON score, by level twenty it would be fine if he can just go ahead and have a once per day ability to up the DC of a spell by four. I mean most people who multiclassed in FateSpinner would have the same ability anyway with more flexibility.


Once per day as a swift action, you can grant the next spell you cast a +4 bonus to its save C. You must cast and complete this spell on the same turn that you use a swift action to activate this feat. In return, you take a -4 penalty to Constitution for 12 hours and are fatigued.

I am long winded today. LOLz. I think it will work. Since a -4 penalty to a dash entry would still leave it as a dash. Nothing wrong with penalizing nothing.

But three feats?

Maerok
2007-02-12, 04:33 PM
Dread Necros are my favorite class, but I find Necromancy itself to be sort of shot down. I've read about splatbooks where they made one for each school except necromancy because it was too far gone too fix (not in those exact words but similar). And in my opinion necromancy gets nerfed in a lot of games. A couple of well-kept paladins could do some serious damage to even the stoutest of undead creatures (good can damage evil far more readily then evil damaging good).

It's hard out here for a necro...

(Is Improved Toughness a suitable alternative to Toughness for prerequisites. And when will Unholy Toughness make its debut? IIRC, you add your Cha modifier per HD to your hitpoints. :smallbiggrin:)