Looking for ways to overcome energy resistances

[Kol Korran]

In my campaign (The Wrath of the Righteous AP) the main mass of enemies are demons, most of which have the following defenses: Immune to electricity, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10. One of the players, despite warnings, chose to play a very blasty evocation wizard. He is quite frustrated that his spells do little if any damage to the demons.

Is there any feat, archetype, spell, ability (Including mythic), item or whatever in RAW (In PF) that can enable him to pass or reduce the resistances? If not, is there anything homebrew? I was thinking of dropping an item (Or him crafting one) that does that. How much would such a property cost?

Thanks in advance,
Kol.

[Sayt]

Of the top of my head, winter witch n cab pierce cold immune/resistant. Otherwise, you warned, he sowed, now he has to reap.

[Thorvaldr]

Load up on the sonic and force spells? Otherwise, he should realize he isn't the damage dealer now. Go for battlefield control, debuffing the enemy, and buffing the party. And summon some monsters!

[Kamin_Majere]

At lower levels the player is going to be unfortunately limited to force and sonic. At higher levels the resistance 10 isn't going to be that big of a deal to a blaster honestly (so long as he stays away from lightning bolt)

[Khedrac]

Searing Spell from Sandstorm - Metamagic feat, for +1 level which makes spells ignore fire resistance and do half damage on immunity
Frostburn has a similar feat for cold spells.

Edit: Sorry I missed the Pathfinder tag - you could always houserule the feats in from 3.5

[Arc_knight25]

For PF, Metamagic feats they may want to look into is Elemental Spell (+1) to change elemental dmg around, or Consecrate Spell(+2) to just Maximise dmg versus evil subtype.

Piercing Spell (+1) will help break SR of the Demons/Devils

All I can think of for PF metamagic feats.

[Kol Korran]

The metamagic suggestions are interesting. I'll try suggesting them to the player.
The searing spell feat sounds cool. But... we are sort of trying to avoid importing things from 3.5. This may be an exception, but it may open everything in. But I'd like to perhaps import this into an item? (See below)

However, assuming he pays someone to craft him an item (Say a robe, or a rod) which allows him any of the followings, how much do you assume it would cost?
- Ignore resistance fire up to 10. What if it's limited to demons? What if it includes cold? acid?
- The same, only it costs some sacrifice. Perhaps 1d6? 1d8? hp per casting? Or maybe sacrificing a 1st level fire spell.
- The exact effect of the searing spell feat: It basically gives the caster a metamagic feat- +1 level to spell to ignore resistance and cause half damage against immunity.

I'm bad at estimating magic items, any help would be appreciated. Yes, I know the player made a bad choice, but I don't want him to suffer up to higher levels for it. I think paying some price to overcome his handicap is justified. What price do you think it should be?

[Kamin_Majere]

As to the item, you can just price it as a lesser metamagic rod of "ignored the DM" (any rod that gives a +1 meta magic 3 times per day)

That would be about what you are looking for... its a bit more open than Searing Spell or the like, but honestly its going to be useless after a few levels as Resistance 10 isnt going to much phase a blaster slinging 5+ d6.

But honestly if I were the DM i'd kinda let the player suffer. You warned and warned and the player ignored your advice. Kinda like people that want to play paladins in ravenloft. Sometimes you just have to let them suffer for it.

The problem with letting them over come the challenge by DM fiat is the challenge is now meaningless, what happens when the fighter can hit as well as he thinks he should? Do you just give him a +10 sword? The player knowingly played an evoker in a game where resistance was going to be everywhere... as low level that sucks and they are going to have to just deal with it. Eventually it will even out and it will be no different than melee classes hitting a creature with Damage Reduction. Low level it sucks, but higher level its pretty easy to get around.

[Kurald Galain]

One of the players, despite warnings, chose to play a very blasty evocation wizard. He is quite frustrated that his spells do little if any damage to the demons.

But he's a wizard. He can have his entire spell layout switched around by dawn tomorrow (and if not, just give him a bunch of scrolls as loot to add to his spellbook).

[Socksy]

Magic Missile, and lots of it. Research a single, 20ft AoE Magic Missile. Magic Javelins or the like- different shaped Missiles which could pierce the enemy and hit anyone behind them too. Antimagic Missiles which work in antimagic fields and/or affect the opponent's casting. Metamagic Missiles. This (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Magic_Missile,_Improved_(3.5e_Spell)) homebrew. Basically, Missilomancer. The spell research rules are there to be used!

[Kurald Galain]

Does the wizard have

(1) evoker specialization for +half level to damage
(2) one level in sorcerer for +2 damage per die
(3) Spell Specialization

? If not, perhaps he should?

[Spore]

Remind him that he is playing a magical scientist who wouldn't stubbornly use the wrong evocations against demons after doing some research?

Also mythic fireballs do LVd10 and ignore resistances and immunities.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Admixture Evoker Wizard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/evocation/admixture) is decent for this. It's definitely a lot tougher in PF than 3E to blast well, though... Unless you use the blasting as a means to an end (the end being, "save or lose") via Dazing Spell. But then it's not really "blasting" anymore...

[Kol Korran]

But honestly if I were the DM i'd kinda let the player suffer. You warned and warned and the player ignored your advice. Kinda like people that want to play paladins in ravenloft. Sometimes you just have to let them suffer for it.

The problem with letting them over come the challenge by DM fiat is the challenge is now meaningless, what happens when the fighter can hit as well as he thinks he should? Do you just give him a +10 sword? The player knowingly played an evoker in a game where resistance was going to be everywhere... as low level that sucks and they are going to have to just deal with it. Eventually it will even out and it will be no different than melee classes hitting a creature with Damage Reduction. Low level it sucks, but higher level its pretty easy to get around.
Our meetings are far in between and our play time is precious. I don't believe it warrants "suffering" for it. We make the game together. It's also not a DM fiat. The player and me are trying to come up with solutions within the rules (including a price) to overcome such an obstacle. A price such as feats, such as cost of magic items and so on. This is what this thread is about. If he'll pay for it, I see n oreason for him to not have it. Now I just need to figure out what "it" is.


But he's a wizard. He can have his entire spell layout switched around by dawn tomorrow (and if not, just give him a bunch of scrolls as loot to add to his spellbook). but he likes playing a blaster. He wants to blow things up. If this was 3.5 he would probably choose the waremage. He seeks a way to make blasting equivalent to other options.


Magic Missile, and lots of it. Research a single, 20ft AoE Magic Missile. Magic Javelins or the like- different shaped Missiles which could pierce the enemy and hit anyone behind them too. Antimagic Missiles which work in antimagic fields and/or affect the opponent's casting. Metamagic Missiles. This (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Magic_Missile,_Improved_(3.5e_Spell)) homebrew. Basically, Missilomancer. The spell research rules are there to be used! He allready uses Magic missile a lot. It is his favorite spell! I'll look into it, thanks!


Does the wizard have

(1) evoker specialization for +half level to damage
(2) one level in sorcerer for +2 damage per die
(3) Spell Specialization

? If not, perhaps he should?
He has 1 and 3. I don't think he'll take 2 cause it doesn't fits his story, and it'll set him back 1 level. I'll suggest it to him though.


Remind him that he is playing a magical scientist who wouldn't stubbornly use the wrong evocations against demons after doing some research?

Also mythic fireballs do LVd10 and ignore resistances and immunities.
Oh! Spell research! That sounds like a great option! I'll look into the rules. I hope he'll be interested in this.

Thanks for the heads up about mythic fireballs, that sounds EXACTLY up his alley! He loves to burn stuff, and they are getting mythic tiers the next level, just when they hit 5th level! Sounds awesome- he get scorching heat fireballs for the price of a mythic feat and mythic power. Thanks!


Admixture Evoker Wizard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/evocation/admixture) is decent for this. It's definitely a lot tougher in PF than 3E to blast well, though... Unless you use the blasting as a means to an end (the end being, "save or lose") via Dazing Spell. But then it's not really "blasting" anymore... Hmmm, I'll suggest it to him, though At his level it doesn't quite solve the problem, though it is flavorful (And I bet he'll like "burning grasp") I'll talk to him about it.
-------------------------------------
Thanks all, some great suggestions there!
Does any of you have an idea of how to price the items suggested in my previous post though?

[Aergoth]

If your player hasn't walled away his conjuration spells, suggest that he switch from damaging evocations to damaging conjurations. There's still a lot of "BOOM" and shock and awe you can get out of it. But there's a few others that we can look at. Some of these are 'racial' spells that would need DM approval but given that you're looking for options, I figure you'd give it.

Running down the list here:

1st level: Conjuration Obscuring mist and stumble gap will mess with enemies pretty well. If you've got nothing against the spell (since it was meant for goblins) Mudball is pretty useful. You're not getting any damage here but softening them up for AoEs and what not to drop them hard. One useful evocation spell: Ear-piercing scream, which does sonic. My group's witch loves this spell and the few times she's dropped an enemy with it we've fluffed it as being a rather gory finish (scanners style head explosions, hemmhoraging from the assorted orifices of the face and head).

2nd level spells: Conjuration Create Pit, Glitterdust and Fog Cloud, in keeping with the schoolyard bully theme of previous conjuration spells. Add also Stone Call to this list. They might shrug off the damage but creating difficult terrain is not to be frowned upon. If you have an archer in the group, maybe allow the Wizard to use Arrow Eruption on the arrows they're making hits with. A burst of holy silver/cold iron arrows that bypass enemy DR is pretty spectacular and gets everyone a little more bang for their buck. Web is also handy.
Evocation Gust of Wind can check enemies, but probably not what you want. Gusting Sphere does non-lethal damage to soften enemies up and can be maintained for a few rounds as a sort of supressing fire while you actually hit with other spells.

3rd level spells:Conjuration: Getting into good stuff here: Aqueous Orb, the bigger, nastier, wetter version of Gusting Sphere. Entangles enemies, they take 2d6 nonlethal every round they're stuck in there. And it's a 10 foot radius that you can move around. Basically a giant katamari as a weapon. Gloomblind Bolts, also damaging, possibility to apply blindness and since your enemy isn't undead they don't have a chance against negative energy. Stinking Cloud, the wizard's chemical warfare. Always useful. Remember that outsiders generally have to breathe.
Evocation: A few more useful spells this level. Call the Void is protection for yourself. Remember outsiders having to breathe? Battering Blast is a force spell that does damage. Heatstroke is pretty fun, but might not work on demons (DM discretion). Diamond Spray deals piercing damage and bypasses DR/hardness as both adamantine and cold iron.

4th level: Conjuration: More traps. Conjure Deadfall lets you conjure what ammounts to a Thwomp from Mario games. Solid Fog will really be annoying against melee demons, just don't put it in the way of your melee types.
Evocation: River of Wind is more pushing guys around and dealing non lethal damage, but the big ticket here is Shout! Pretend you're the dovahkiin and do sonic damage to your enemies!

5th level: Conjuration: Cloudkill will outright kill weaker enemies. We missed a pit spell last level because it only did acid damage, but Hungry Pit makes up for it. Wall of Stone is a pretty useful spell if your players can work with it.
Evocation: Mass Pain Strike. And all of the wall spells at this level are useful. Wall of Force is pretty hard to break through and should give your caster a solid modicum of defense. If you're fighting a rearguard action, Wall of Light will give you a good opportunity to force them to either take the blindness or go around. Wall of Sound is Wind Wall's bigger, meaner brother and does sonic damage to anything that tries to poke it or go through it, plus blocking things like wind wall did and you can cast it like a trap to damage enemies approaching (hit the leading line of acharge with this and it'll hurt.

I think this should give a fairly solid run down of spells he might be able to use. This doesn't assume any special level of cleverness, because obviously clever players can find spells to turn to terrible ends.
On top of this, Consecrate spell was already mentioned I think. Bouncing spell is pretty good if you're concerned that your spell might not work the first time. Toppling Spell and Concussive Spell might be useful as metamagic rods. Against anything with spell resistance, Piercing Spell is nifty if you can afford the boost in level.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Hmmm, I'll suggest it to him, though At his level it doesn't quite solve the problem, though it is flavorful (And I bet he'll like "burning grasp") I'll talk to him about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "At his level." The key feature is gained at level 1 and its effect and duration have absolutely nothing to do with wizard class level, so it's just as good for someone ditching wizard for a PrC or the aspiring level 1 wizard as it is for the level 20 wizard. The 8th level feature is pretty worthless, IMO. If you could activate as a free/swift, it might be useful, but as a standard it's just horrible.


Versatile Evocation (Su): When you cast an evocation spell that does acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, you may change the damage dealt to one of the other four energy types. This changes the descriptor of the spell to match the new energy type. Any non-damaging effects remain unchanged unless the new energy type invalidates them (an ice storm that deals fire damage might still provide a penalty on Perception checks due to smoke, but it would not create difficult terrain). Such effects are subject to GM discretion. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

If he has any wizard levels at all, he can have the class feature and get the full effect and uses/day out of it.