Can I get a Hydra to hold 12 swords

[Stille_Nacht]

I was running my campaign, and one of my PCs (wildshape ranger 5 MoM 2) had a question that sparked my interest.

P-"Hey can I use weapons as a Hydra?".

Obviously I said no. But it got me thinking. Is it actually possible? Is there some form of template stacking and feat engineering and chain wildshapes that could get a Druid or Ranger or MoM to such a point that s/he can transform into a 12 headed-hydra with 12 swords, one in each head's mouth? That's a potential for a 46% vorpal rate assuming 1 attack/head.

[AmberVael]

There is in fact an easy, completely non-shenanigan way to manage this.

Mouthpick Weapon Enchantment, Lords of Madness, page 46. All you need is a bite attack to wield such a weapon- and hydras have a bite attack for each head, so there you go.

Enchanting might get a little expensive though.

[geekintheground]

I was running my campaign, and one of my PCs (wildshape ranger 5 MoM 2) had a question that sparked my interest.

P-"Hey can I use weapons as a Hydra?".

Obviously I said no. But it got me thinking. Is it actually possible? Is there some form of template stacking and feat engineering and chain wildshapes that could get a Druid or Ranger or MoM to such a point that s/he can transform into a 12 headed-hydra with 12 swords, one in each head's mouth? That's a potential for a 46% vorpal rate assuming 1 attack/head.

yes. mouthpick weapons can be used by anyone with a bite attack and are wielded(?) in the mouth for no penalty. i dont see how you would get to ATTACK with all of them, since a hydra doesnt qualify for multiweapon fighting...

i think mouthpick is a +1 bonus from lords of madness


edit: swordsage proved me right. im so happy :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, while I wouldn't let a hydra use two mouths to gain 1 1/2 strength bonus, I'd let a hydra qualify for Multiweapon Fighting if it used swords a lot. The trouble I see is a Hydra is animal level Intelligence, which raises the question of how it knows to use swords at all.

[TuggyNE]

Eh, while I wouldn't let a hydra use two mouths to gain 1 1/2 strength bonus, I'd let a hydra qualify for Multiweapon Fighting if it used swords a lot. The trouble I see is a Hydra is animal level Intelligence, which raises the question of how it knows to use swords at all.

They're not proficient, so I think the problem solves itself. (Unless Mouthpick gives proficiency, which would be pretty tacky.)

[AugustNights]

A lack of proficiency does not preclude use.

[Xefas]

They're not proficient, so I think the problem solves itself. (Unless Mouthpick gives proficiency, which would be pretty tacky.)

I think if OP was going for effectiveness, it'd just be easier and less expensive to use a Necklace of Natural Weapons to give the Hydra whatever benefits of weapon use they're after. So, the point must be novelty. And having a bunch of Hydra heads clumsily gumming swords while they ineptly swing them into each other is a hell of a lot funnier than if they were any good at it. Its like a three-stooges sketch, if there were twelve stooges and all of them with slavering serpent beasts connected to the same infinitely regenerating body.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think the real difficulty here would be finding some way so that when the hydra's heads get cut off, both of the ones that regrow will have swords at the ready. Is there some kind of enchantment that can allow the weapon to copy itself?

Also, the Skillful property will take care of the lack of proficiency.

[Rubik]

I think the real difficulty here would be finding some way so that when the hydra's heads get cut off, both of the ones that regrow will have swords at the ready. Is there some kind of enchantment that can allow the weapon to copy itself?There's Splitting, but you need to add Throwing first.

[Xefas]

Wait, so, once a Hydra's severed head-stump is cauterized with fire or acid, could a sword-wielding Hydra cut off a little more of its own stump, opening up the wound to grow into more heads?

Seems like it'd be tricky to teach one to do that...

[squiggit]

They're not proficient, so I think the problem solves itself. (Unless Mouthpick gives proficiency, which would be pretty tacky.)

Mouthpick does, in fact, give free proficiency with the weapon in question. So go crazy with weird exotic weapons.

It doesn't have any handedness rules either.

[Rubik]

Mouthpick does, in fact, give free proficiency with the weapon in question. So go crazy with weird exotic weapons.

It doesn't have any handedness rules either.A bevy of mouthpick harpoons would be...interesting.

[Jack_Simth]

Seems like it'd be tricky to teach one to do that...

The trouble I see is a Hydra is animal level Intelligence, which raises the question of how it knows to use swords at all.
The context of the original post was a Master of Many Forms, so I don't really imagine this is a problem.

[Necroticplague]

Wait, so, once a Hydra's severed head-stump is cauterized with fire or acid, could a sword-wielding Hydra cut off a little more of its own stump, opening up the wound to grow into more heads?

Seems like it'd be tricky to teach one to do that...

Thankfully, training a not-animal with animal intelligence is just +5 DC. Assuming you could get it tame in the first place, just give it extra time to try and overcome part of its self-preservation (which you've already done partly if you can get it fighting for you).

There's no way that i know to make the heads re-grown with swords at ready, awesome as that would be. Having it pick up point-blank shot and quick draw, and giving it +1 mouthpick throwing splitting platinum spiked chains. In spare time, throw chain to duplicate it through splitting, and it can quick draw any copies when it grows a new head.

[lunar2]

nothing says animal intelligence creatures can't use weapons. they just aren't proficient.and mouthpick weapons take care of that. i'd say half fiend hydra, though, so it has the dex for multiweapon fighting. then you need a throwing splitting mouthpick vorpal weapon.

[Ravens_cry]

The context of the original post was a Master of Many Forms, so I don't really imagine this is a problem.
True, but would still not allow a Hydra to two mouth a sword.

[TuggyNE]

I think if OP was going for effectiveness, it'd just be easier and less expensive to use a Necklace of Natural Weapons to give the Hydra whatever benefits of weapon use they're after. So, the point must be novelty. And having a bunch of Hydra heads clumsily gumming swords while they ineptly swing them into each other is a hell of a lot funnier than if they were any good at it. Its like a three-stooges sketch, if there were twelve stooges and all of them with slavering serpent beasts connected to the same infinitely regenerating body.

Well put!


Mouthpick does, in fact, give free proficiency with the weapon in question. So go crazy with weird exotic weapons.

It doesn't have any handedness rules either.

Sadface.jpg. That's just a stupid property.

[Kennisiou]

I, uh, also want to point out that in the specific instance he's talking about it's a wildshape ranger/MoMF shaping into a hydra, meaning that it should have all weapon proficiencies he had before shaping iirc.

[TuggyNE]

I, uh, also want to point out that in the specific instance he's talking about it's a wildshape ranger/MoMF shaping into a hydra, meaning that it should have all weapon proficiencies he had before shaping iirc.

Well, sure, but it's possible for this to be the case with regular hydras too (if only hydra pets or minions).

[Lord Vukodlak]

An amulet of mighty fist is probably a wiser investment then twelve specially enchanted swords.

[Coidzor]

They're not proficient, so I think the problem solves itself. (Unless Mouthpick gives proficiency, which would be pretty tacky.)

Pretty sure they do, which isn't really *that* much anyway. Though it does allow for bypassing the separate exotic weapon proficiencies for combining things like Kaorti Resin.


A bevy of mouthpick harpoons would be...interesting.

Oh 12 gods... :smalleek:

[Rubik]

An amulet of mighty fist is probably a wiser investment then twelve specially enchanted swords.Given that hydras only have a single type of natural weapon, a necklace of natural weaponry keyed to bite attacks would be a much better fit at 1/3 the ludicrous cost of the amulet (and with explicit rules about weapon enhancements aside from enhancement bonuses, to boot).


Oh 12 gods... :smalleek:Now just throw in Robilar's Gambit and bloodstorm blade and you'll be all set.

[Eldan]

A bevy of mouthpick harpoons would be...interesting.

Sounds awesome. I'd refluff it as "the hydra spits out a long sticky tongue with a barb at the end", personally.

[Sith_Happens]

Sounds awesome. I'd refluff it as "the hydra spits out a long sticky tongue with a barb at the end", personally.

Refluff it? Why? You'd be robbing your players the image of having a hydra spit harpoons at them!:smallconfused:

[Rubik]

Refluff it? Why? You'd be robbing your players the image of having a hydra spit harpoons at them!:smallconfused:He doesn't want to be a freaky fish guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvHsWR_Sp4)?

[Curmudgeon]

Given that hydras only have a single type of natural weapon, a necklace of natural weaponry keyed to bite attacks would be a much better fit at 1/3 the ludicrous cost of the amulet (and with explicit rules about weapon enhancements aside from enhancement bonuses, to boot).
Sorry, it would be much more expensive. The price is based on the number of natural weapons (12), not the number of types of natural weapons (1).
Market Price: 600 gp, plus the cost of the enhancement bonuses, times by the number of natural weapons affected. (Thus, a +1 necklace of natural weapons that affects one natural weapon costs 2,600 gp. If the same necklace affects six natural weapons, it costs 15,600 gp.)

[Rubik]

Sorry, it would be much more expensive. The price is based on the number of natural weapons (12), not the number of types of natural weapons (1).You're probably right. However, the amulet is practically useless, what with only allowing for enhancement bonuses, and it costs several times what it should. You're better off paying for a Permanency and a Chained Greater Magic Fang.

Alternately, using an appropriate pearl of power.

[boxfox]

Arms of the Naga. (http://kahdnd.pbworks.com/w/page/30148333/Arms%20of%20the%20Naga) (Savage Species, 55)

Equip them right behind each head, at the end of the neck.

For a mere 672,000gp and a few feats, you can use 12 Spiked Chains to make 12 trip attacks a turn. You need to use medium sized weapons, but you still get the reach of your neck length plus 5'.

Enjoy.