Trying to compensate for broken house rules

[Elfkin_King]

My groups DM wanted us to use a set of house rules for stat ruling, where if all dice are the same number then you keep them all. The catch is that you can't re-roll 1's and 2's (like he normally has us do) and we are using 5 dice.
I ended up rolling all 5's (25) and all 6's (30) back to back-- on top of getting nothing below a 15-- and I'm trying to find a way to balance my character a bit. I've been back and forth between builds and classes etc, and it's been a nightmare. The best thing that I can come up with to do is to either A) drop the 30 point stat to something like 20 or 25 or B) give myself negatives by Power attacking with a Large-sized Katana (does 2d6 18-20/x2; deadly).
I dropped the Soul Knife class levels I was using, so that I'm using an actual weapon and I'm not unbalancing the game anymore than I already am with the Weapon Enhancement features.

I'm also Gestalting Warblade and Swordsage, and thinking about using the Shadowsun Ninja and Blood Storm Blade Prestige Classes later on.

And we are playing a cross between PF and 3.5.

Is there a better way for me to try and balance my character? (I'm either playing a human or a half-elf)

[Arbane]

Why bother trying to be balanced? Pick some MAD classes and go to town. If the GM wanted balance, they wouldn't have come up with such RIFTS-tastic house rules.

[Sith_Happens]

Why bother trying to be balanced? Pick some MAD classes and go to town. If the GM wanted balance, they wouldn't have come up with such RIFTS-tastic house rules.

Seconding this. Your DM should have known what he was getting into when he made this possible in the first place, the only thing to do from here is milk it for all it's worth.

[ngilop]

Why bother trying to be balanced? Pick some MAD classes and go to town. If the GM wanted balance, they wouldn't have come up with such RIFTS-tastic house rules.

yeah toss any idea of trying to be 'balanced' out the window.. if the MD said roll 5 dice and that is what you get! then you roll the 5 dice and write that down for your stats


but to be devil's advocate here.. are you SURE it was 5 dice straight up an dnot 5 dice drop the 2 lowest?

[Elfkin_King]

Why bother trying to be balanced? Pick some MAD classes and go to town. If the GM wanted balance, they wouldn't have come up with such RIFTS-tastic house rules.

LOL, it was because some kid in our group had asked and he was getting super crappy rolls, and so he decided to implement it just to shut him up. And the kid rolled 5 3's (total of 15) and that's his best stat. xD

I'm at least trying not to sway the game completely my way.
So far I've got it penciled in on scrap paper to be a Drow-blooded Half Elf, power attacking with the large katana in 2 hands (which should give me a total of -5 to my attacks: -2 for large weapon, -2 for PA, and -1 for being Dazzled). That way it at least looks balanced and the DM isn't having to throw things at us that the rest of the party can't handle.

And I am playing a MAD character. STR, CON, DEX, WIS, and INT are all relied upon. CHA is the only dump stat.

[Elfkin_King]

yeah toss any idea of trying to be 'balanced' out the window.. if the MD said roll 5 dice and that is what you get! then you roll the 5 dice and write that down for your stats


but to be devil's advocate here.. are you SURE it was 5 dice straight up an dnot 5 dice drop the 2 lowest?

It's "roll 5d6, drop 2 lowest, unless all are the same number (ex: all land on 4, making it 20); no re-rolling 1's and 2's"
Granted, the only time my dice aren't trying to kill me is when I'm rolling stats. They're such a tease.

[lunar2]

i'll do you one worse. one time, i had a DM say if you got all 5s or all 6s, you kept them. i rolled 24 6s in a row. that's right, my ability scores were perfect 24s down the line. i'm not even sure what the odds of that happening are, but i know it shouldn't have happened. and no, it wasn't the dice.

[Sith_Happens]

Put the 30 in Strength and the 25 in Constitution. One-shot everything and never die.

[Windstorm]

if you've ever wanted to play a monster class, now is the time. playing monstrous characters usually requires a nice ability score set to offset some of the loss of HD and class features you lose from level adjustments.

[Alex12]

So...your problem is that your stats are too...high?
This is what is typically referred to as the exact opposite of a problem.

[Coidzor]

Well, you could always just be a GOD(-wizard). Your higher save DCs will make your Save-or-X spells more effective (depending upon the ability scores of enemies), but not that much more effective, and while the bonus spells per day will be nice, they're not that nice and you were already breaking the game anyway.

As it is, I'm a bit lost as to how you think that a Soulknife could break the game by being a soulknife.

[geekintheground]

if youre gestalting warblade and swordsage i suggest the 30 in DEX and the 25 in STR. and grabbing the shadow blade feat. then go to town with your high melee damage self!

[Elfkin_King]

i'll do you one worse. one time, i had a DM say if you got all 5s or all 6s, you kept them. i rolled 24 6s in a row. that's right, my ability scores were perfect 24s down the line. i'm not even sure what the odds of that happening are, but i know it shouldn't have happened. and no, it wasn't the dice.
I'm pretty sure you're DM wanted to ban your dice from the table forever. xD

So...your problem is that your stats are too...high?
This is what is typically referred to as the exact opposite of a problem.
Yeah, I know. But like I said: We have a newbie player and I sorta wanted to NOT make him feel weak and puny and.... yeah, no, I'm still a god here.

Well, you could always just be a GOD(-wizard). Your higher save DCs will make your Save-or-X spells more effective (depending upon the ability scores of enemies), but not that much more effective, and while the bonus spells per day will be nice, they're not that nice and you were already breaking the game anyway.

As it is, I'm a bit lost as to how you think that a Soulknife could break the game by being a soulknife.
It's been tempting. Like, really really really tempting.
He (the DM) thinks that having the ability to enhance my weapon and put my own enhancements on it (basically at will) is broken and that not having to actually carry real weapons or spend ANY money on weapons and "basically get free feats without being a fighter" is broken. It was a lengthy conversation where he figured I would abuse the **** out of it, and he's probably right. OK.... He IS right.
Besides, he has a chip on his shoulder over anything Psionic.

if youre gestalting warblade and swordsage i suggest the 30 in DEX and the 25 in STR. and grabbing the shadow blade feat. then go to town with your high melee damage self!
Again, tempting.
Right now I've got it in STR and INT so that when I catch things flat footed I do massive damage. I don't have a stat under 16 (2 16's, 2 17's, 25 and 30) So I'm not really lacking anything.

[Coidzor]

It's been tempting. Like, really really really tempting.
He (the DM) thinks that having the ability to enhance my weapon and put my own enhancements on it (basically at will) is broken and that not having to actually carry real weapons or spend ANY money on weapons and "basically get free feats without being a fighter" is broken. It was a lengthy conversation where he figured I would abuse the **** out of it, and he's probably right. OK.... He IS right.
Besides, he has a chip on his shoulder over anything Psionic.

Well, you know, GOD (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146876)makes (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1570.0)the mortals feel good about themselves as part of his job duties. :smallwink:

Maybe if you're talking about the Pathfinder version of Soulknife, but the 3.5 one is just horse puckey. Nor is the Fighter good enough or special enough to warrant that kind of sacred cow treatment. :smallyuk:

It's too bad he's got such a hate-on for Psionics. :/

[Sith_Happens]

He (the DM) thinks that having the ability to enhance my weapon and put my own enhancements on it (basically at will) is broken and that not having to actually carry real weapons or spend ANY money on weapons and "basically get free feats without being a fighter" is broken. It was a lengthy conversation where he figured I would abuse the **** out of it, and he's probably right. OK.... He IS right.
Besides, he has a chip on his shoulder over anything Psionic.

Here's the dirty secret: Weapons are things you can just buy, or even find lying on the floor in a dark hole somewhere. However much money the Soulknife saves you, you could just pay up and have actual class features instead.

[Metahuman1]

Really piss him off, drop the 30 in con, a 25 in Wis and play a dragonborn druid.

[ahenobarbi]

alf minotaur half ogre Walter orc barbarian for +20 (+24 when racing) strength it is ;)


But seriously I recommend a support charakter. Bards, wizards and clerics focusing on buffs and battlefield control are great because they are powerful but tend to not overshadow party.

Or you can play charakter concept that tends to be underpowered.

I don't recommend drow fighter - it's likely you will end up to weak.

[Arbane]

Yeah, I know. But like I said: We have a newbie player and I sorta wanted to NOT make him feel weak and puny and.... yeah, no, I'm still a god here.

Give him your character. You can play his.

[One Step Two]

I don't have a stat under 16 (2 16's, 2 17's, 25 and 30) So I'm not really lacking anything.

And you have gestalt as well? Mother of Gygax... okay.

Welcome to super party support:
Savage Species is needed though
Trumpet Archon Savage Progression // Bard

Take Words of Creation, optimise Inspire Courage, Give everyone +6 hit/damage by first level. Your stats will grow to be even more insane, but now you can pump Charisma and make fascinate DC's that will make most mortals drooling messes.
Cleric casting granted by the Trumpet Arcon is all buffs and other fun things, dispense healing as needed.
Find a way to get dragonblooded subtype in there somehow, and make it all d6's of elemental damage of choice, if you prefer.

Alternatively:

Archivist//Truenamer

That will give you a challenge.

[eggynack]

Really piss him off, drop the 30 in con, a 25 in Wis and play a dragonborn druid.
This plan is pretty much always the right plan, regardless of circumstance. Not sure if it's worth swapping con and wis, though I can certainly see the amusement inherent in just completely maxing out a single stat. In fact, you could push it all the way and make it a dragonborn desert half-orc, running a total of 34 in constitution, and several levels of d10 HD instead of d8. I usually recommend that as a plan of action when HP isn't crazy high, but insane HP might just be its own reward.

[Yogibear41]

It's "roll 5d6, drop 2 lowest, unless all are the same number (ex: all land on 4, making it 20); no re-rolling 1's and 2's"
Granted, the only time my dice aren't trying to kill me is when I'm rolling stats. They're such a tease.

I feel sorry for all the other guys who probably aren't as lucky as you.


This plan is pretty much always the right plan, regardless of circumstance. Not sure if it's worth swapping con and wis, though I can certainly see the amusement inherent in just completely maxing out a single stat. In fact, you could push it all the way and make it a dragonborn desert half-orc, running a total of 34 in constitution, and several levels of d10 HD instead of d8. I usually recommend that as a plan of action when HP isn't crazy high, but insane HP might just be its own reward.

Dragonborn mongrelfolk for even more con.

[eggynack]

Dragonborn mongrelfolk for even more con.
That is sweet, but I'd still stick with the half-orc. The substitution levels actually cause you to be ahead of the mongrelfolk by an HP at first level, and they toss you a whole pile of bonuses besides. There is certainly something to pushing constitution to the limit at the expense of overall power level, but I like it when everything works together. Alternatively, we could always reverse it, stick the 30 in wisdom, and go dragonborn anthropomorphic bat for 36 wisdom and 27 constitution. That'd be sweet.

[Togo]

Play a fighter/monk. Put the 30 in strength, the 25 in dex, and the 15 in intelligence. Forget about charisma, wisdom and go with average con. You'll get a bunch of class abilities which are normally lacklustre, but in this case you'll have the raw power to pull it off as a reasonable character. And it's not like you'll ever be able to play that combo in a normal game.

Or if that's too weak...

Put the 25 in strength, the 30 in charisma, and play a loth-blooded+1/marshal3/monk3/occult slayer5/something else8//Paladin 4/fighter1/Pious Templar2/Divine crusader1/divine oracle2/church inquisitor10

At low levels you can one shot with the best of them, and you're giving big enough boosts with your marshal levels (art of war) to make bull rush, disarm, trip and so on a game the entire party can play, which may encourage the newbie to use these manoeuvres. At mid level you have mind blank, immunity to fear, evasion in full armour and mettle, and a selection of low level spells. At high levels you have immunity to illusions, and 9th level spell casting earlier than the primary casters, albeit with a limited selection of spells. Lots of variety, you can always contribute, and you don't overshadow anyone else's specialist skills, spells, or class abilities, since you're mainly just hitting stuff.

[Troacctid]

Marshal seems great here. It's like giving your super-high ability score to everyone in the party at once.

[John Longarrow]

Goblin Monk/Bard

By level 20 you may actually be useful!

Even with a 30 and a 25, by level 10 the wizard with a 15 int to start should be outshining you on a regular basis. By level 20, well...

I think this also means you need EVERY stat for something. About the most MAD build I can think of.

For sick, stick your 30 in charisma and the 25 in wisdom.

[Vhaidara]

Okay, I personally second the God-Wizard. I feel that's the best role for an experienced player to fill when there's a new person/people in the group.

Now, the fact that it's called the God Wizard might put you off, but it's actually the most team-friendly wizard build I've seen. Essentially, you play the role of support buffer. Gestalt Wizard//Cleric, throw your high stats in Int and Wis, and just grab all the buff spells with some Battlefield control. Never actually kill anything, never brag about being the enabler, but just bask in the knowledge that you make every three times better at their job.

Another option on the Gestalt would be to replace one of them with Bard. Bard has good buff spells, and optimized Inspire Courage is the most terrifying thing in the game. I wouldn't necessarily recommend going for Dragonfire Inspiration, since you're trying to keep your buffing more subtle, and just adding numbers is better for that than adding half a dozen dice to the person's roll every time.

[Feint's End]

i'll do you one worse. one time, i had a DM say if you got all 5s or all 6s, you kept them. i rolled 24 6s in a row. that's right, my ability scores were perfect 24s down the line. i'm not even sure what the odds of that happening are, but i know it shouldn't have happened. and no, it wasn't the dice.

1 to 6^24 = 1 to 4 738 381 338 321 616 896
namely 1 out of 4 quintillion 738 quadrillion 381 trillion 338 billion 321 million 616 thousand 896

Lets assume the world currently has a population of 7.162 billion people (United States Census Bureau March 2014) and every single person alive (lets assume the number stays the same shall we?) rolled 24 dice every second it would take 661 million 600 thousand 299* (rounded up) seconds or 7657.4* days or 20.965* years** to roll that often. And even then the chance of somebody rolling 24 times 6 is just 63.2 %.

To have a chance of 99% of somebody rolling 24 times 6 you'd have to roll 17 quintillion 087 quadrillion 069 trillion 780 billion 105 million 356 thousand 410* additional times. That would be a grand total of 96.566* years** of everybody on the world rolling every second (granted the population would stay the same and not die after a few days).

You sir didn't use kosher dice.

*rounded
** assuming 365.25 days for one year

edit: I might have made some small mistakes so let me know if you find anything suspicious (already corrected twice)

[Feint's End]

Okay, I personally second the God-Wizard. I feel that's the best role for an experienced player to fill when there's a new person/people in the group.

Now, the fact that it's called the God Wizard might put you off, but it's actually the most team-friendly wizard build I've seen. Essentially, you play the role of support buffer. Gestalt Wizard//Cleric, throw your high stats in Int and Wis, and just grab all the buff spells with some Battlefield control. Never actually kill anything, never brag about being the enabler, but just bask in the knowledge that you make every three times better at their job.

I third this but I'd suggest using two classes with more synergy namely an active buff class like wizard and a passive buff class like a bard (who can keep music running while you cast). Maybe sprincle the bardside with a crusaderdip and song of the white raven so you can start singing as a swift action. Take all the awesome feats and items for boosting Inspirce Courage and you are golden. Maybe dip a few classes for more utility but staying straight bard is fine too.

Oh could we know all your stats please?

[Hamste]

1 to 6^24 = 1 to 4 738 381 338 321 616 896
namely 1 out of 4 quintillion 738 quadrillion 381 trillion 338 billion 321 million 616 thousand 896

Lets assume the world currently has a population of 7.162 billion people (United States Census Bureau March 2014) and every single person alive (lets assume the number stays the same shall we?) rolled 24 dice every second it would take 661 million 600 thousand 299 (rounded up) seconds or 7657.4 days or 20.965 years to roll that often. And even then the chance of somebody rolling 24 times 6 is just 63.2 %.

To have a chance of 99% of somebody rolling 24 times 6 you'd have to roll 17 quintillion 087 quadrillion 069 trillion 780 billion 105 million 356 thousand 410 additional times. That would be a grand total of 96.566 years of everybody on the world rolling every second (granted the population would stay the same and not die after a few days).

Your sir didn't use kosher dice.

edit: I might have made some small mistakes so let me know if you find anything suspicious (already corrected twice)

Now, what I want to see is someone rolling their dice one at time 24 times and then proceeding to yell that there was a 1/ 4738381338321616896 chance of that exact result happening (one at a time so that the order matters and this is true), particularly if their results are particularly mediocre.

[madtinker]

I didn't read all the replies, so this may have already been mentioned, but here it is:

Play a character of venerable age. Put your highest numbers in physical stats, take a -6 penalty to str, dex, con, and you get +3 to int, wis, and cha.

Flavor yourself as a mentor/geezer who just happens to be secretly BA.

I've always wanted to try this but never had high enough base numbers to make it work. Granted, you'll still have better stats than everyone else, but it won't be AS obvious.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am going to suggest the following.

Wizard 5 / War weaver 5 / abjurant champion 5 / Spellguard of the Silvery moon 5 // Bard 20 (healing hymn)

Sacred Vow and Vow of non-violence are suggested. You are a social, skill, and knowledge monkey with a 30 int and 25 charisma. You make the rest of the party unkillable, and you NEVER RAISE A HAND IN COMBAT. You get 16 spell points per level, so max all the knowledges and all the social skills + spellcraft. Spend the rest of profession skills and other odds and ends.

Ether that, or play everything.

Human
Wizard 20 / factotum 8 / Chameleon 10 / Marshal 2

[Talothorn]

Max out charisma, gestalt Marshall/Bard. Now everyone is amazing.

[Elfkin_King]

I guess a better thing to ask is what is a good way to maximize my damage, even if it's at the expense of my attack.
I have this Feats Book that contains two feats: Two-handed Power Attack When using a melee weapon in two hands in conjunction with the Power Attack Feat, you may double the penalty to the attack roll and thus double the bonus to the damage roll. and Two-Handed Power Strike You may add twice your Strength bonus to damage when using a two-handed melee weapon with both hands. The only requirements are "Str 15+, Power Attack".

What other ways could I up my damage?

My Stats:
30 STR
17 Dex
16 Con
17 Int
16 Cha
25 Wis
(after racial modifier and the +1 of being above level 4)
Playing a Drown-Blooded Half-Elf wielding a Large Katana in two-hands with Improved Critical (2d6 15-20x2)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, after reading all the replies, I like the idea of playing support in this way, either as a wizard, cleric and//or Bard: Classes I wouldn't normally play but can effectively with these stats without screwing everyone else over.

Playing this as a venerable aged character could be cool too. Effectively I could be playing as the Raistlin Majere of support. And I may just have to call him "Barty Wizardburg" or something. All jokes aside, that could be crazy scary.

I've just never played as a Bard or Wizard before.

[SimonMoon6]

If you don't want to abuse having a 30 stat, put it in Charisma, everyone's favorite dump stat. (Well, not sorcerers and so forth, but still.) Everyone seems to think Charisma is useless. So, give yourself a 30 Charisma and play a class that doesn't use Charisma.

Likewise, you can put the 25 stat in something you're not gonna use. If you're a fighter type, put it in INT. Amaze people with the vast number of useless skills you have.

Funnier option: put the 25 in str and be a wizard. Oh, sure, you can easily punch someone for 8+ damage, put you'd rather cast a spell to do d4+1 damage.

[PaucaTerrorem]

So...your problem is that your stats are too...high?
This is what is typically referred to as the exact opposite of a problem.

First World problems, my friend.

[John Longarrow]

You can stay with the Drow 1/2 elf wielding the Katana.

Build for 1st level and then up.

Str 17, Dex 17, Con 30, Int 25, Wis 16, Cha 16

Lvl 1 - Wizard / Crusader (FEAT -exotic weapon proficiency Katana)
Lvl 2 - Wizard / Archivist +
Drop stat points into INT.

You are big, burly, and take a LOT of damage. And your a wizard, but a wizard that also casts divine spells. While wielding a sword. And not wearing armor.

Wait for people's heads to implode.

[Elfkin_King]

You can stay with the Drow 1/2 elf wielding the Katana.

Build for 1st level and then up.

Str 17, Dex 17, Con 30, Int 25, Wis 16, Cha 16

Lvl 1 - Wizard / Crusader (FEAT -exotic weapon proficiency Katana)
Lvl 2 - Wizard / Archivist +
Drop stat points into INT.

You are big, burly, and take a LOT of damage. And your a wizard, but a wizard that also casts divine spells. While wielding a sword. And not wearing armor.

Wait for people's heads to implode.

Wizard//Archivist with the Collegiate Wizard feat sounds pretty good too. Is there a feat that would allow the Archivist side to gain more spells?

[John Longarrow]

No specific feat, but they can buy scrolls of ANY divine spell to scribe into their books, just like a wizard can..

Course having this big, burly sword wielding elf that tosses spells will be thematically fun! I'd have him decked out to look like a daring rake that gets into back alley fights in some major city. Goes about in expensive clothing with sword. Make him a total fop!

For more fun, trade out katana for rapier for the rakish look. You don't really care about the weapon since you get to be a potent caster. You don't care much about your HD because you get +10 HP/level from CON.

With classes offset by one, you wind up with full BAB on this build to.

[Drelua]

If you really don't want to be too powerful compared to the rest of the group, just put your good rolls into stats that don't matter for that character. Play something fun like a really smart Barbarian that constantly outsmarts the wizard. It kinda makes sense that your stats wouldn't align perfectly with your class; plenty of people don't want to be what they're naturally most suited for, so just play an intelligent guy that finds excessive profanity and the introduction of large sharp objects to small, squishy men is often the most efficient resolution to violent conflict. He's never really studied, but somehow he just looks at stuff and knows how it works, much to the frustration of his more academically inclined friends. He could just look up one day and say, "I wonder how the sun works... hmm... probably nuclear fusion." Then someone says that doesn't make any sense, so he screams at them and throws them through a wall.

[Elfkin_King]

No specific feat, but they can buy scrolls of ANY divine spell to scribe into their books, just like a wizard can..

Course having this big, burly sword wielding elf that tosses spells will be thematically fun! I'd have him decked out to look like a daring rake that gets into back alley fights in some major city. Goes about in expensive clothing with sword. Make him a total fop!

For more fun, trade out katana for rapier for the rakish look. You don't really care about the weapon since you get to be a potent caster. You don't care much about your HD because you get +10 HP/level from CON.

With classes offset by one, you wind up with full BAB on this build to.
That definitely sounds appealing. :) I would also still qualify for the feat "Eleven Blood, Fire Elf" if my DM allows flaws. I haven't asked yet.

If you really don't want to be too powerful compared to the rest of the group, just put your good rolls into stats that don't matter for that character. Play something fun like a really smart Barbarian that constantly outsmarts the wizard. It kinda makes sense that your stats wouldn't align perfectly with your class; plenty of people don't want to be what they're naturally most suited for, so just play an intelligent guy that finds excessive profanity and the introduction of large sharp objects to small, squishy men is often the most efficient resolution to violent conflict. He's never really studied, but somehow he just looks at stuff and knows how it works, much to the frustration of his more academically inclined friends. He could just look up one day and say, "I wonder how the sun works... hmm... probably nuclear fusion." Then someone says that doesn't make any sense, so he screams at them and throws them through a wall.

This is exactly why I love the DnD community. Haha :)

[dascarletm]

If you really don't want to be too powerful compared to the rest of the group, just put your good rolls into stats that don't matter for that character. Play something fun like a really smart Barbarian that constantly outsmarts the wizard. It kinda makes sense that your stats wouldn't align perfectly with your class; plenty of people don't want to be what they're naturally most suited for, so just play an intelligent guy that finds excessive profanity and the introduction of large sharp objects to small, squishy men is often the most efficient resolution to violent conflict. He's never really studied, but somehow he just looks at stuff and knows how it works, much to the frustration of his more academically inclined friends. He could just look up one day and say, "I wonder how the sun works... hmm... probably nuclear fusion." Then someone says that doesn't make any sense, so he screams at them and throws them through a wall.

Yes yes yes yes yes. Do this.

Pull a good will hunting and be from a poor background, and be modest about it. Unless someone deserves a good mental butt whooping.

[Elfkin_King]

Yes yes yes yes yes. Do this.

Pull a good will hunting and be from a poor background, and be modest about it. Unless someone deserves a good mental butt whooping.

A "good will hunting"?

[Vhaidara]

It's a movie.

Also, if you go with the Wizard//Archivist wielding a katana, see if your GM will let you use the Glammered Armor enchantment (normally makes armor look like normal clothes) to make normal clothes look like armor. So you look like a big armored warrior with a katana. Then you start throwing spells everywhere.

[dascarletm]

A "good will hunting"?

Yeah, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119217/

[Elfkin_King]

It's a movie.

Also, if you go with the Wizard//Archivist wielding a katana, see if your GM will let you use the Glammered Armor enchantment (normally makes armor look like normal clothes) to make normal clothes look like armor. So you look like a big armored warrior with a katana. Then you start throwing spells everywhere.

Lol, I like it. But I might make him Venerable, too. Yeah, I'd lose out on some stuff, but it makes him rely on the party more.

[dascarletm]

Other options include making a blind character, or a character with a similarly large hindrance.

[Elfkin_King]

Collegiate wizard says that you gain 6 spells at 1st level +1/point of Int modifier. Does the +1 per point of int modifier from collegegiate wizard effect the spll count beyond 1st?

[Elfkin_King]

And now that I think about it, is there a class that casts Divine spells (such as Cleric Spells) spontaneously, much like a Sorcerer casts arcane spells?

[Vhaidara]

Favored Soul, Complete Divine.

[Elfkin_King]

Favored Soul, Complete Divine.

Or the Oracle (PF Advanced Players Guide)
Which works pretty well with the sorcerer.
Speaking of which: What ways (if any) can a Sorcerer gain additional spells known?
I've seen one or two blood lines offer that at certain levels, and I know being Human (favored class) is a good way to get spells of 1 level lower added in. Are there more? (feats?) And what blood-lines and Favored Class races off those additional spells?

EDIT: I'm moving the rest of this discussion over here: PF Sorcerer//Oracle Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?347723-PF-Sorcerer-Oracle)

[Coidzor]

Collegiate wizard says that you gain 6 spells at 1st level +1/point of Int modifier. Does the +1 per point of int modifier from collegegiate wizard effect the spll count beyond 1st?

No, it is fairly clear in what it gives you. It specifically gives you that at first level and then a different number of spells upon taking subsequent levels and makes no reference to gaining +1 spell per Int Modifier where it deals with subsequent levels.

[Anachronity]

Rock a marshal and put the 30 into charisma. Pick minor auras that help the less advantaged party members (motivate dexterity so your party always goes first, that flanking aura that gives your Cha mod to damage for flanking attacks, etc.

Channel your good fortune through your party mates!

[Vhaidara]

Wait, getting an idea...

Marshal//Archivist. Grab buff spells. Be a venerable dude.

This level of Cha bonus makes marshal auras terrifying. Be the old guy sitting in the back yelling at everyone how to do their job properly.

Grab Motivate Int as one of the auras, and try to get the party to take Knowledge Devotion. They add your Cha bonus to their Knowledge checks for KD. That's a minimum of +1 to hit and damage. Then you have the Archivist Dark Secrets or whatever it's called that is basically KD but you give it to your teammates.

[ericgrau]

+6 to your attack rolls or save DCs will get way out of hand unless everyone else is also crazy optimized.

So play a rogue or bard. Rogues still hit, but they aren't primary combatants. And having huge skill checks only goes so far. Likewise bards cast but the lower spell level reduces the save DC and the raw spell power overall. They normally do better with spells that don't have saves or that can still be decent in spite of the save. Their worst and ok spells may now be their best spells for you, which merely puts them at good. And the same thing happens with their skills.

Any other partial caster (who isn't also full melee) and/or skillmonkey should work fine too. Maybe a scout or ninja. Maybe even a gish or theurge.

You might also try something with a 30 con. Maybe a crusader tank or a shield other cleric. Or something I've wanted to do is a mage based around melee touch spells. Con > str > casting stat.

[Totema]

i'll do you one worse. one time, i had a DM say if you got all 5s or all 6s, you kept them. i rolled 24 6s in a row. that's right, my ability scores were perfect 24s down the line. i'm not even sure what the odds of that happening are, but i know it shouldn't have happened. and no, it wasn't the dice.
I'm very curious, how did that end up going?

[bekeleven]

This plan is pretty much always the right plan, regardless of circumstance.

What happened to dragonborn anthro bat with 36 wisdom?

But seriously, I'd recommend doing a stat-to-all (or even 2 stats-to-all) build. I made a gestalt factotum a few months back that ran with 40+ int and got int to AC twice, saves, attacks, damage, and skills. Plus I managed to get int-based bonus spells to 3 different casting pools, each of which had like +7 or +8 first and second level spells. That was a mess and I loved it.

Everything-to-charisma is probably easier, and you can see people beginning to gravitate that way in this thread. First step is Marshal 1, of course.

[eggynack]

What happened to dragonborn anthro bat with 36 wisdom?

That is also always the right plan, and I thus mentioned it later. There are many plans that are always the right plan. There are plans here that are more right than others, but really, when you're choosing between ridiculous constitution druid and ridiculous wisdom druid, you're in a pretty great place.

[lunar2]

I'm very curious, how did that end up going?

i died in the first session from a balor. at level 5.

[Karoht]

Max out charisma, gestalt Marshall/Bard. Now everyone is amazing.
Seconded.
Run around all the time singing "Everything is Awesome"
All day.
Every day.
Because everything really IS awesome (www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y)

[Coidzor]

i died in the first session from a balor. at level 5.

Well that was a missed opportunity on the part of that DM.

[lunar2]

well, i rerolled, and my new scores were 18,17,16,15,13,12. still really good, but not brokenly good. but i've always been lucky with stat rolls, regardless of the individual dice, or if we're even using dice. when i was incarcerated, we used a homemade spinner instead of dice, because dice were contraband. the last campaign i played, we used an online roller (because it was an online game, natch). i rarely roll lower than 12. it gets to be that, whenever i play with a group for a while, we tend to switch over to point buy, because i always get better ability scores than the rest of the party. (un)fortunately, that luck does not extend to the actual gameplay, where i tend to favor the lower end of the D20. might have something to do with why i play so many casters.

anyway, that campaign fell apart after 3 sessions. the DM worked nights, and so he couldn't keep up the schedule.