View Full Version : Fixing one of the Arts from my Fighter Fix:

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-12, 03:01 AM
The fix is located here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30692).

The thing I'm concerned about is the Willful Resistance Advanced Art.

Willful Resistance (Ex) the Fighter is a disciplined warrior who can use that discipline to batter through spells or effects that might harm them. As an immediate action, the Fighter can replace a single saving throw with a concentration check.

I was basing this on the Tome of Battle maneuvers that allow you to do the same thing (one for each save); however, a ToB character would need to ready the maneuvers, and then recover them, to boot. They have a lot more maneuvers than my Fighter does Arts, but the Fighter can do this every round, making Willful Resistance just too good.

It needs to be toned down somehow. Several options are a "cooldown time", some kind of downside to using it, changing how it works...

Here are some thoughts:
-One: limit the use. Limit it to one particular save (either Will only, or of the player's choice), and/or make it useable once every X rounds--what would be appropriate? Two? Three? Five? Doing both would make it like a ToB maneuver, basically, but an Advanced Art for my fix should be a bit better than a single low-level maneuver, even if it's one of the better ones.

-Two: add a downside. The only option that really makes sense here is more resource investment, and the only really availible resource is actions.
There are a few ways to do this:
--It could automatically consume one next round's action. As an immediate action, it already eats the next round's swift action. It could also automatically make you lose either your move or your standard action in the next round. Standard seems a bit harsh, but I don't know if a move action is enough--although it *does* deny a full attack as well as moving up and then attacking once (although a partial charge would still be possible).
--It could not consume actions, but, much like Psionic Focus, require actions to be able to do this again. This adds a different kind of tactical element. Again, the issue here is what kind of action? Move, here, would probably be too easy, but standard still seems too much--making it eat a standard action would essentially be ensuring a once/encounter use most of the time. Making it require a move action to become availible again would be like the above, but more flexible.
--It could borrow from the Warblade maneuver recovery method, and require a move action, followed by a standard one used to either attack or flourish one's weapon (Intimidate check)? That would be more limiting than just a move action.
--Come to think, it could require a swift action, or a swift action followed by a move action. Because immediate actions consume swift actions, this would be "once every other round" at most, and would make it consume twice as many swift actions. "Swift action followed by move action to recover" seems one of the better options.

-Three: change how it works. Instead of replacing the saving throw, it could provide a bonus based on a concentration check--I'm not sure what would be appropriate here, however. "One-quarter of the concentration check goes from around +4 to +8 at level 9 to +10 to +14 at level 20, with an item. That's probably excessive, although if you compare a good straight-up concentration check to a poor will save, the difference will be as large or larger. One-fifth of the concentration check, maybe?

Which of these methods--or what combination of these methods--do you suggest? The goal of the Art is to make saving throws less of a crippling weakness, but not eliminate their danger entirely. Fighters have one good-to-very-good saving throw and two very poor saving throws, with no excellent (good save + save stat is the class' prime stat, such as Rogue reflex or Cleric will or Dragonfire Adept fort saves) save. Or is there some other modification to help balance this Art?

2007-02-12, 03:18 AM
Assuming concentration is a class skill for your fix, becouse I couldn't find whether it was or not at a quick glance...

Suggestion: Willful Resistance applies to Will saves, effective once every 1d4 rounds (like a dragons breath weapon).

Then add another art (Tumbling Reflexes, unless a better name can be made) which will work similarly, that replaces a reflex save with a tumble check, also effective once every 1d4 rounds (as a dragons breath weapon). For this tumble will also need to be a class skill.

As pointed out, a Fighter shouldn't need a Fortitude increasing effect.

This should bring Willful Resistance as presended in the fix into line.

2007-02-12, 03:33 AM
You could increase the DC with subsequent uses, and allow a move or standard action to "flush" the increase and go back to normal.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-12, 01:18 PM
Cybren--I don't think that's what I'm looking for; the increase would be large to prevent repeated use. If I want a cooldown time, I'll basically just add a cooldown time.

magic8ball--"1d4" rounds is an interesting suggestion. It's 2.5 on average. I think I'd like to avoid randomness where possible, really, though.

So far, Swift+Move to refresh is my favorite idea, since it would eat one move action over two rounds (and the swift actions of both rounds) to refresh it, which seems about right.

Fax Celestis
2007-02-12, 01:29 PM
I'd go with "Binder refresh": once every five rounds.

2007-02-12, 11:22 PM
Have you considered a set number of uses per day? Given the flavor of the ability, possibly once per Wisdom bonus per day. Or, maybe better for a fighter type, rewrite the flavor to shrugging off and enduring the effect and base the number of times per day on Constitution.