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Iituem
2007-02-12, 08:45 AM
For those annoying entrepreneurial players who like to have strange non-adventuring incomes, or for when your party suddenly finds themselves in ownership of a plot of land.

I was thinking about how to simplify the stats for long-term investments within the D&D realm (setting up businesses etc) so as to avoid excessive mechanics and simultaneously avoid breaking the system. This would prove useful for those high-level PCs who try and rule plots of land. I came up with a few scratch rules and want your opinion as to whether they could work in the game:

A long-term investment (property, business etc) will make a percentage profit on its initial investment or total worth (whichever is higher) depending on how successful the business is that year. In general, the following guidelines allow for DM rulings:

{table=head]Business Status|Percent Profit
Failing|
-20%

Poor|
-10%

Unsuccessful|
0%

Underdeveloped|
+5%

Successful|
+10%

Very Successful|
+20%

Wildly Successful|
+30%

[/table]

Generally, most good businesses manage 10% profit on the initial investment or current worth. A business very well taken care of could make 20%. Only a business being very well taken care of with an exceptional market (think modern day drug companies) can manage a 30% profit. These rules apply to property, land and businesses equally.

Generally, only a fraction of profits translate into returns to the character. Unless the character is running the business himself (unlikely, as he will be off adventuring) at least some of the profit will be given as a share to the caretaker of the business/property/land. The remainder can be taken directly by the character or invested back into the business (increasing its overall worth and return).

To avoid characters simply investing in a business, reaping rewards for a couple of years, then selling it back off, assume that the initial worth of the investment is equal to half the money initially put into it. For example, a warehouse bought for 10,000gp would have an initial worth of 5000gp. If the characters managed 10% profit a year (and kept all the profit) it would take them five years to get back the the investment if they then immediately sold the warehouse again (because the profit is based on the initial investment, not the current value). That said, if they invested the full 10% from the first six years back into the warehouse, the value would exceed the initial investment and next year's 10% profit would be 1,100gp instead (assuming the business can afford to grow).


Assume that all businesses break even (0%) and then apply the following modifiers to determine success.

{table=head]Factors affecting business|Profit Adjustment
Poor Location|
-10%

Good Location|
+5%

Loyal Client Base|
+5%

Disloyal Client Base|
-10%

Common Goods|
-5%

Exotic Goods|
+15%

Contraband Goods|
+50%

Easy to Supply|
+5%

Difficult to Supply|
-10%

High Security Requirement|
-10%

Incompetent Caretaker|
-10%

Competent Caretaker|
+5%

Low Demand for Business|
-10%

High Demand for Business|
+5%

Business Too Small to Supply Market|
-5%

Business Too Large to Supply Market|
-10%

Owner is Lawful|
+5%

Owner is Chaotic|
-5%

Owner is Good|
+10%

Owner is Evil|
-10%

Caretaker is Good|
+5%

Caretaker is Evil|
-5%
[/table]

It is up to the DM to decide whether or not a caretaker/character is skilled enough to run a certain business, but bear in mind that a larger, more complex business is harder to run. Lawful owners tend to produce more stable businesses, whilst Good owners tend to encourage better production from their workers. Although contraband businesses are typically very lucrative (+50% profit) in theory, they tend to suffer client disloyalty, high security requirements and are often led by evil men, resulting in a net profit of 20% and a good chance the business may be stormed by the authorities (unless they take a cut of the profit regardless). Not all of the categories apply (one can have a fairly good location, fairly loyal clients and sufficiently competent caretakers, for example) and some cancel each other out (common goods such as grain may still be in high demand).


An ideal business has a good location, loyal client base, a competent caretaker and a lawful good owner. These qualities tend to remain the same, whereas others (such as supply and demand) will vary with the tide of the day.



Land ownership: PCs may find themselves the owners of land, be it through royal assent, purchase or force of arms. To simulate their profit from this investment, calculate the annual profit using the adjustments above, save that the initial value of the land is the same as they buy/acquire it for (not 50%) and that the base profit is 10%, not 0% (land is big money). In addition to the above factors, apply the modifiers below to determine profit.

{table=head]Factors affecting business|Profit Adjustment
Poor Soil|
-10%

Good Soil|
+10%

Mineral Poor|
-10%

Mineral Rich|
+10%

Wood Shortage|
-10%

Plentiful Lumber|
+10%

Remote Location|
-10%

Good Trade Location|
+15%

Long-Term Peace|
+20%

Stable Community|
+10%

Civil Unrest/Instability|
-10%

State of Conflict|
-20%

Exotic Resources|
+10%

Criminal Haven|
+20%

[/table]

Remote locations are distant from existing trade routes and generally hard to reach (an isolated community in the mountains, for example) whereas locations with access to good trade routes are easy to reach by means of roads, waterways or sea, possibly located near other centres of trade (a port city, or a central city with a good road network between itself and sister cities).

A place can qualify for long-term peace if it has not been troubled by war or raiding for 5 years or more. Stable communities are generally unwilling to rise up against their rulers and have good law enforcement and a low crime rate. Unstable or restless communities tend to harbour resentment towards their leadership and probably have serious crime issues. Communities in a state of conflict have been raided at least once in the year or may be in the middle of an ongoing war.

Exotic resources are things like emeralds, spices and mithril (as well as arcane reagants). These may well imply another modifier (a town with mithril deposits would be mineral rich) in which case those modifiers stack.

Places that harbour criminals (pirate dens, bandit towns, smuggler havens etc) gain a significant boost to income from their stolen loot, but almost certainly suffer from instability (if they did not already) and such places (if they did qualify as one in the first place) cannot be centres of trade. For underdeveloped locations already suffering troubles, harbouring pirates may provide a solution, but it is generally a poor idea for those inclined to grow.

Profit put back into the land represents its growth as a result of lesser taxation - land is improved, more citizens are born or immigrate to the community and infrastructure and trade is improved.

Grey Watcher
2007-02-12, 09:07 AM
Looks interesting. Though my one critique is that I wouldn't give out bonuses or penalties to profit based anyone's alignment. My brain is dancing around an argument, but I can't quite articulate it right now.

Also, how do you determine the base profit levels (successful vs. unsuccessful)? What kind of check is involved in that (since sometimes you can have everything going for you and things still don't work out right).

Iituem
2007-02-12, 09:35 AM
Ah, the successful/unsuccessful was a thumb guide as to how a business should be going compared to its % profit. For business, start off with 0% profit and work from there. For land, start off with 10% profit and work from there (so that even evil people can make a profit off land).

As for alignment, I figured there should be a way of rewarding people who treat their subjects/employees well and punishing those who treat them poorly. It's assumed that alignment seeps through into that sort of treatment. May consider restricting it to good/evil or eliminating it completely, though.

headwarpage
2007-02-12, 01:12 PM
I'd think evil would lend itself to higher profits, personally. But then, I'm a cynic.

Iituem
2007-02-12, 02:05 PM
Higher profits for themselves, certainly. Remember that you can invest back in your own business/land. An evil tyrant who taxes his population to death takes most or all of the profit he gets from his land (stunting its growth), whereas a person more concerned with the welfare of his people taxes lightly and invests most of the profit from the land back into it. The -overall- production, however, suffers as a result of the destructive management of an evil character.

Duke of URL
2007-02-12, 02:16 PM
Looks interesting. Though my one critique is that I wouldn't give out bonuses or penalties to profit based anyone's alignment. My brain is dancing around an argument, but I can't quite articulate it right now.

If anything, I'd make Neutral (on the good/evil scale) base +0% and have Good or Evil have the same penalty as each other (the former is too altruistic, the latter has a poor reputation). Also, the business manager/caretaker's alignment should matter more than the owner's, unless the owner has a very active hand in the business management.

elliott20
2007-02-12, 05:28 PM
I think it's a mistake to inject morality into the question. The business world itself can be argued to be very negative or very positive, depending upon which side of t he social scale you stand.

the best way I think business owning characters should be handled?

treat it as if they have been using their skills profession check even while they're adventuring, and give them bonuses appropriate. i.e. +2 for every aid action they get, +2 for some other circumstances like better land location and what not.

Iituem
2007-02-15, 05:08 PM
Alternative Investment Rules

This set of rules requires that the player running a business has some idea of what he is doing, or at least his caretaker. When choosing to run/invest in a business, the player must select a caretaker (this can be himself) to run it. The caretaker spends all his time running the business, so potentially the player can go and adventure without having to worry about it.

Use the caretaker's skill in the requisite profession or craft. Apply a +2 circumstance bonus if the owner (the player) has 5 ranks or more in the skill in question (still apply this if he is the caretaker). Do not apply bonuses for masterwork equipment. The caretaker makes a check once per year against the DC for the business. For every point above the DC made by the check, the business enjoys a cumulative 2% profit on its current value or initial investment (whichever is higher) after all wages and expenses are paid (including the caretaker's).

For each point below the DC made by the check, the business suffers a cumulative 2% loss on its current value or initial investment (whichever is higher) after all wages and expenses are paid (including the caretaker's). When the player is the caretaker, assume that all living costs and non-adventuring costs are paid by earning before profit is calculated.

The base DC of the yearly check is 10. For every 200gp of the business' worth up to 1000gp, add +1 to the DC. For every 2000gp of the business' worth up to 10,000gp, add +1 to the DC. For every 20,000gp of the business' worth up to 100,000gp, add +1 to the DC. For each additional 50,000gp after this, add +1 to the DC.

Apply the following circumstance modifiers to DCs:

{table=head]Factors affecting business|Modifier to DC
Poor location|
+2

Good location|
-1

Loyal Client Base|
-1

Disloyal Client Base|
+2

Common Goods|
+1

Exotic Goods|
-3

Contraband Goods|
-10

Easy to Supply|
-1

Difficult to Supply|
+2

High Security Requirement|
+2

Low Demand for Business|
+2

High Demand for Business|
-1

Business Too Small for Market|
+1

Business Too Large for Market|
+2

Employees Well Treated|
-1

Employees Mistreated|
+2

[/table]

Worked Example: Rednar the Dwarf has a successful diamond mining business worth 140,000gp. He is a level 14 Expert with 17 ranks in Profession (miner), a Wisdom score of 15 and owns and operates the company himself. He makes his yearly check for business profit and gets a 12 on the d20 roll.

He applies his +17 skill modifier to the roll, as well as his Wisdom modifier (+2) and the bonus for owning the company and having more than 5 ranks in Profession (miner) (+2). This gives him a base check result of 33. Being a 140,000gp business, the base DC is 25.

Circumstance modifiers are then applied to the DC: The diamond mine is fortunately near a major town (-1 for location) but is one of a few mines in the area and so does not have particularly committed or disloyal customers. It supplies exotic goods (-3) and is supplied regularly by the town but not at a particularly cheap price. Holding the diamonds also requires a carefully constructed and guarded vault (+2). Unfortunately, demand for diamonds is at a low (+2) and the mine is presently too large for the demand (+2) because Rednar refuses to lay off any of his staff to meet demand. He has done this before and the miners appreciate it, working harder to help (-1). The new DC is 27.

Due to Rednar's good luck and skill, he beats the DC by 6, making a 12% profit for the year after paying salaries and expenses and tending to his own immediate needs. He decides to invest the 16,800gp directly back into the company, increasing its worth to 156,800gp. Because it is now worth more than 150,000gp, next year the base DC will rise to 26.


If the caretaker has more ranks in the profession than the owner, there is a cumulative 5% chance for each additional rank he has over the owner each year that he will subvert the business and take control. If the caretaker is a loyal cohort of the owner (and thus must be of lower level) this chance is nullified. If the caretaker is a disloyal cohort of the owner this chance is halved (as he is still somewhat subservient).



Branching: For particularly large businesses, autocratic control on the part of the caretaker may be impossible or impractical. By splitting parts of the business into separately run branches the section the caretaker is required to control is reduced, although he still gains benefits from the branch businesses. Count branch businesses as businesses run by separate NPCs, who make their own checks.

Corruption: The process is not without corruption. Some of the profit from each branch may be 'lost' on the way to the central business. For every level the main caretaker is above the branch operators, 20% of the profit reaches the main business (so a level 15 caretaker would get 100% of profit from a level 10 branch operator, but only 60% from a level 12 operator). If a branch operator is of equal or greater level than the caretaker and has more ranks in the requisite profession, there is a risk that he will take over (see above). If operators are loyal cohorts of the caretaker, this chance is nullified or reduced. Loyal cohorts count corruption as being 60% less than it normally would be. Disloyal cohorts count corruption as being 20% less than normal.



Land Ownership: Treat as above, using Profession (governing), (administrator) or (bureaucrat) checks with a straight +5 circumstance bonus (land is profitable). In addition, apply the following modifiers to DCs:

{table=head]Factors affecting business|Modifier to DC
Poor Soil|
+4

Good Soil|
-4

Mineral Poor|
+4

Mineral Rich|
-4

Wood Shortage|
+4

Plentiful Lumber|
-4

Good Trade Location|
-6

Remote Location|
+4

Long Term Peace|
-8

Stable Community|
-4

Civil Unrest/Instability|
+4

State of Conflict|
+8

Exotic Resources|
-4

Criminal Haven|
-4

People Well Treated|
-5

People Poorly Treated|
+5

[/table]


Remote locations are distant from existing trade routes and generally hard to reach (an isolated community in the mountains, for example) whereas locations with access to good trade routes are easy to reach by means of roads, waterways or sea, possibly located near other centres of trade (a port city, or a central city with a good road network between itself and sister cities).

A place can qualify for long-term peace if it has not been troubled by war or raiding for 5 years or more. Stable communities are generally unwilling to rise up against their rulers and have good law enforcement and a low crime rate. Unstable or restless communities tend to harbour resentment towards their leadership and probably have serious crime issues. Communities in a state of conflict have been raided at least once in the year or may be in the middle of an ongoing war.

Exotic resources are things like emeralds, spices and mithril (as well as arcane reagants). These may well imply another modifier (a town with mithril deposits would be mineral rich) in which case those modifiers stack.

Places that harbour criminals (pirate dens, bandit towns, smuggler havens etc) gain a significant boost to income from their stolen loot, but almost certainly suffer from instability (if they did not already) and such places (if they did qualify as one in the first place) cannot be centres of trade. For underdeveloped locations already suffering troubles, harbouring pirates may provide a solution, but it is generally a poor idea for those inclined to grow.

Profit put back into the land represents its growth as a result of lesser taxation - land is improved, more citizens are born or immigrate to the community and infrastructure and trade is improved.