Ridiculous Anima Mage build?

[RavynsLand]

1. Warmage1 (Precocious Apprentice, Empower Spell)
2. Warlock1
3. Binder1 (Improved Bind)
4. Anima Mage1 (increasing Warlock and Binder through the whole PrC)
5. Anima Mage2
6. Anima Mage3
7. Anima Mage4
8. Anima Mage5
9. Anima Mage6
10. Anima Mage7
11. Anima Mage8
12. Anima Mage9
13. Anima Mage10
14. Eldritch Theurge1 (increasing Warlock and Warmage)
15. Eldritch Theurge2
16. Eldritch Theurge3
17. Eldritch Theurge4
18. Eldritch Theurge5
19. Eldritch Theurge6
20. Eldritch Theurge7

So, here we have a 17th-level warlock, an 11th-level binder, and an 8th-level warmage. Arcane Thesis lets you toss Empowered Fireballs onto the end of your Eldritch Blasts, use Invocations for powerful arcane abilities and Binder to fill in the gaps, making you more competent in ranged combat and all-around useful in other fields. Requires human or flaws.

Chose Warmage so that everything can be done in Mithral Breastplate. Replace with Sorcerer at your leisure.

[NoACWarrior]

The issue I see is the lack of high level spells. Sure high level invocations are nice, but they don't break the game in the same way as high level spells.

I'd instead use anima mage to level most of warmage, and then pick up ET when you can.

You are also wasting one of the best uses of anima mage - the metamagic application.

[RavynsLand]

The issue I see is the lack of high level spells. Sure high level invocations are nice, but they don't break the game in the same way as high level spells.

I'd instead use anima mage to level most of warmage, and then pick up ET when you can.

You are also wasting one of the best uses of anima mage - the metamagic application.

With this, it's impossible to hit 9th with anything besides a Wizard though, sadly, so I figured I'd take Dark Invo's instead. Warlock also blends with Binder better flavor-wise.

There's also no reason you can't apply that metamagic effect to your mage spells. ^_^

But sure, the whole thing can be switched to be 17th-level mage, 8th-level warlock, and 11th-level binder.

[HammeredWharf]

Armor is definitely not worth trading Wizard for Warmage. It's a decent and probably fun build, but less powerful than a simple Wizard 20. High-level spells are that good.

[Spuddles]

The issue I see is the lack of high level spells. Sure high level invocations are nice, but they don't break the game in the same way as high level spells.

I'd instead use anima mage to level most of warmage, and then pick up ET when you can.

You are also wasting one of the best uses of anima mage - the metamagic application.

High level invocation, you mean. With only 17 levels of warlock, choose one.

[RavynsLand]

Armor is definitely not worth trading Wizard for Warmage. It's a decent and probably fun build, but less powerful than a simple Wizard 20. High-level spells are that good.

I was trying to avoid MAD, which is why I preferred WM/Sorc over Wizard. Figured it'd be easier to rely on Charisma 100% and be able to put some points into dex and con.

[Story]

This is still weaker than the standard Wizard 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Wizard Prc X so I'm not sure how it qualifies as "ridiculous".

Anyway, you don't need CHA to be an Anima Mage. Wizards do perfectly fine. The only things you need CHA for are a slight bonus to binding checks and the save-or-X binder abilities, and they're generally not that great. Wizards get their own save or loses anyway. All of the best abilities don't require CHA at all.

[Morbis Meh]

This is still weaker than the standard Wizard 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Wizard Prc X so I'm not sure how it qualifies as "ridiculous".

Anyway, you don't need CHA to be an Anima Mage. Wizards do perfectly fine. The only things you need CHA for are a slight bonus to binding checks and the save-or-X binder abilities, and they're generally not that great. Wizards get their own save or loses anyway. All of the best abilities don't require CHA at all.

Agreed, vestiges for anima mages are best used for passive, defensive abilities while you kick but with your high end magic.

This build you're proposing may be flavourful and fun but when level 20 comes around it will be a fairly lack luster build that will be crippled against enemies of appropriate CR (empowered fireballs on top of eldritch blasts are dandy but good luck overcoming SR and fire immune enemies that are very common at high levels). You'll only have access to level 4 spells and level 5/6 vestiges (you will be able to bind two though). Also this build is invalid because precocious apprentice only grants a single level 2 spell and the requirement for Anima Mage is :Cast second level spells* note plural.

[Story]

note plural.

This has been debated before, but I believe the consensus is that you only need one spell because there are Prcs where the intended entry has only one spell at that level.

Edit: I can't find any examples, but I could have sworn there were some.

[Talya]

Also this build is invalid because precocious apprentice only grants a single level 2 spell and the requirement for Anima Mage is :Cast second level spells* note plural.

That's a misreading of the rules. Casting the same spell twice is the ability to cast "spells." Even if you have to do it on consecutive days.

[Morbis Meh]

That's a misreading of the rules. Casting the same spell twice is the ability to cast "spells." Even if you have to do it on consecutive days.

Depends on who is reading it, by RAW it's spells thus plural, precocious apprentice early entry tricks are quite cheesy and I have seen this argued on both sides. I just tend to side with the less broken side; you can argue RAI all you want but that doesn't count for much. For this build I would probably let it slide though if I was the DM since it isn't overly broken :smallsmile:

[Gemini476]

Depends on who is reading it, by RAW it's spells thus plural, precocious apprentice early entry tricks are quite cheesy and I have seen this argued on both sides. I just tend to side with the less broken side; you can argue RAI all you want but that doesn't count for much. For this build I would probably let it slide though if I was the DM since it isn't overly broken :smallsmile:

If you go by that interpretation, a Sorcerer is only able to cast 2nd level spells at level 5. Or a 13 Int Wizard at level 4, if you want to go by spells/day.

This would easily be solved by taking Versatile Spellcaster instead, though. And it stays useful, to boot.

[Talya]

Depends on who is reading it, by RAW it's spells thus plural, precocious apprentice early entry tricks are quite cheesy and I have seen this argued on both sides. I just tend to side with the less broken side; you can argue RAI all you want but that doesn't count for much. For this build I would probably let it slide though if I was the DM since it isn't overly broken :smallsmile:

RAW and RAI are the same thing in this case.

The rules do not say "Ability to cast multiple different level 2 spells in the same day." They say only "Ability to cast level 2 spells."

The only way that your lone level 2 spell does not satisfy that requirement is if you can only ever cast it once... in your LIFE.

[Morbis Meh]

If you go by that interpretation, a Sorcerer is only able to cast 2nd level spells at level 5. Or a 13 Int Wizard at level 4, if you want to go by spells/day.

This would easily be solved by taking Versatile Spellcaster instead, though. And it stays useful, to boot.


RAW and RAI are the same thing in this case.

The rules do not say "Ability to cast multiple different level 2 spells in the same day." They say only "Ability to cast level 2 spells."

The only way that your lone level 2 spell does not satisfy that requirement is if you can only ever cast it once... in your LIFE.

How about instead of derailing the thread in regards to MY interpretation of a rule you actually post the kind of replies the OP requested. This thread is not the place for debating RAI/RAW. I believe that you need to have multiple spells known to qualify so precocious apprentice does not do it since you are just casting the same spell, you can cast it as many times as you want but you can still only cast a single spell not different ones. As for a Sorc, it is unfortunate but alas they would either need a combo of Precocious apprentice or wait until level 5. So stop clogging the thread with off topic comments.

[Incanur]

As far as anima mage builds go, this is tame and fair (and that's a *good* thing). Anima mage happens to be one of the most broken prestige classes out there. For perhaps the scariest build out there, consider JaronK's Binder 1/Archivist 3/Anima Mage 10/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13347.25;wap2), using the divine adaptation of anima mage.

[Story]

I would argue that Tainted Sorceror itself involves infinite loops, given the whole infinite bonus spells thing.