PDA

View Full Version : DM Help How to realistically portray the 'turning' of a enemy general to the PC's side



meto30
2014-05-08, 11:33 PM
Hello, I'm a DM running a heavily modified 3.5e campaign set in the Forgotten Realms. I'd like help on how to realistically portray the 'turning' of an NPC enemy general to the PC's side, or if turning itself is too unrealistic, how to realistically portray the general resisting the attempt.

Before I go into the details of the situation, I ask of you to please do not suggest any magical solutions. I'd rather not delve into details on why magic should not be used; suffice to say it will never be an acceptable solution for the PC at hand, given the circumstances and why the PC wants the general on his side.

Also, the fluff you see presented in the details may not fit FR canon; this is because, as I've mentioned on the opening sentence, the world was modified to fit our needs and tastes. Please do understand and try not to pull canon into this.


The PC in question (His name is Vhaibars, named after a historical Mamluk sultan named Baibars) is the unofficial autocrat of Murghom, a nation of semi-nomadic horsemen that live in the steppes (kinda like the Turks). He is invading Mulhorand, which is basically New Kingdom era Ancient Egypt (complete with an Egyption pantheon of gods!). Through skillful use of political maneuvering he has manipulated Mulhorand into sending one of its most skilled generals, Kendera Atsalozaria, to the Murghom front. His plan is use whatever necessary means at his disposal to turn Kendera, and the whole army she commands (who will most probably follow the general), to his side, and use them against Mulhorand. He has his reasons for needing to turn Kendera, and Kendera has reasons to betray the Pharaoh and follow Vhaibars, so the turning isn't without basis; but I want the turn of events to be as realistic as possible. My players deserve it.

Vhaibars wants Kendera, a capable and resourceful tactician well-versed in the military arts (unlike his own Murghomi nobles, who are, well, just people with noble blood), but more importantly, he needs the Chrysoxiphoi, the army that Kendera commands; Mulhorand is an empire several times the size of Murghom in land, population, economy, military, and magical infrstructure, and Vhaibars is fully aware that it will require several miracles for Murghom to defeat and conquer Mulhorand. Miracles and a tactical genius. Vhaibars isn't one, but Kendera is. If he can somehow convince Kendera that it'll be better for her and her soldiers to help Vhaibars topple the Pharaohs and install a new government in its place, he'll have a far better shot at doing just that.

Kendera isn't entirely happy with her situation as of now. The Chrysoxiphoi are, technically speaking, all slaves of the Pharaoh. They are the descendants of the Chessentan refugees who escaped the Thayan invasion Magosetentome coast, which was cut off from support from the Chessentan mainland as the First Chessentan Empire disintegrated after the sudden disappearance of its emperor, Tchazzar, and sought haven in neighboring Mulhorand, who are sworn enemies to Thay. Trained in the war in the old Tchazzarian way (which is basically the Macedonian way of war under Phillip and Alexander), they provide the Pharaohs with a strong, professional infantry and heavy cavalry arm to supplement the vast militia army that is the Mulhorandi military. Being what is probably the most professional force in Mulhorand, the Chrysoxiphoi won almost every engagement they were thrown into in their centuries-long history. But, glorious though those victories may be, it did not help the people's plight - to prevent the military from escaping or falling into the hands of the nobles who might use them to overthrow the royal house, the Pharaohs of old had made all the Chrysoxiphoi into royal household slave soldiers. They are forbidden to hold property, and may not choose their occupation, for the strong and capable become soldiers and the rest become support staff. The Chrysoxiphoi are still bound by the same laws today. Kendera wants her people to be free.

But she is also loyal to the people of Mulhorand, and is a devout worshipper of the Mulhorandi pantheon and their creed of order and stability. As far as she's concerned, the will of the Pharaoh is the will of the gods. Mulhorand, although it may treat her as just a very capable (and thus valuable) slave, is still her motherland, and she'd gladly give her life to defend it (which is excatly what she volunteered to do when she asked the Pharaoh to send her to the Murghom front). This sentiment is shared by her fellow soldiers the Chrysoxiphoi, although to a far lesser intensity. Five centuries of intermingling means that the Chrysoxiphoi are more Mulhorandi than Chessentan now. Despite being slaves, they fight willingly, to defend their home against the barbaric invaders.

However, Kendera is not content with Mulhorand as it is now. And this isn't only about the slavery issue. Mulhorand is a corrupt, decaying, and culturally stagnant state ruled by hereditary clerics of the great houses, who all claim direct descent from one of the hundreds of avatars the Mulhorandi gods used to rule over the people directly. Beginning with the slaying of the Untheri gods, the Mulhorandi deities slowly let go of the direct method, relegating more power to their mortal offspring, and after the Time of Troubles, they left the mortal plane altogether, leaving no avatars behind to allow Mulhorand to truly run itself. Things did not go as planned, however, as the nobles pretty much live out their lives as they did under direct divine rule - that is, they do nothing. Comfortable in the robust agricultural economy supported by three country-spanning floodplains and a rigid social hierarchy with three millennia of tradition, the nobles pursued a policy of slavish maintenance of the 'old order' while the rest of the world progressed beyond. The gods themselves were distrustful of progress, technology in particular, remembering all too well the tyranny of Imaskari engineer-lords which they themselves overthrew. The Mulhorandi of today lead almost exactly the same lives as that of their ancestors hundreds of years ago.

Kendera wanted to resolve this problem, to renew her beloved motherland into a modern, healthy country. She caught the eye of the young Pharaoh, Horustep III, using her wit and charm, and gained his support for her vision, but the nobility would have none of it. Although being called a living god, the Pharaoh is far from all-powerful, and his will alone was not enough to overcome the resistance of the great houses; after 8 years of achieving absolutely nothing, Kendera is nearly beaten down, not quite, but almost. Now she has a new chance, and she'll try one last time to realize her dreams. If she can subdue the Murghomi incursion, which the great house Ramathant failed to defeat to their shame, and save Mulhorand, she might finally be able to quell the voices of the nobility.

Vhaibars is aware of all this. This is why he manipulated the political scene in the first place, to make sure all the great houses would either be too busy or too ashamed to prevent the Pharaoh from sending in the Chrysoxiphoi. He wants Kendera and her army to defect to his side, and to do so, he will first employ the Favian strategy and deny the Chrysoxiphoi a chance at a decisive victory while reversing his own manipulations and put house Ramathant back in power. They are the most vocal in their criticism of the 'upstart foreigner slaves', and if Kendera is unable to make any progress regarding the Murghomi for a prolonged period of time, Ramathant might see this as the chance to finally undo the Chrysoxiphoi. Once she is convinced her political situation is bleak, she might be more open to Vhaibars' offer to not reform Mulhorand from the inside but rather join him and bring it down, and together build it back up.


The plan laid out in the last paragraph of the details is the one formed by the PC's player, HFS. I found it more than sufficient, and told him to go forward. All that remains is for me to roleplay Kendera convincingly, all the while making sure she lives up to her fluff as a superb tactician by effectively commanding the Chrysoxiphoi in our battle-map sessions. So, I reiterate my request for aid here: I'd like advice on how I should roleplay her. What might bring her to actually betray her liege-master? What kind of process would happen within her mind as she undergoes turning? What will the soldiers think? What will she think what her soldiers would think? Do you think this planned 'turning' is plausible enough? If not, why?

Also, the other players suggested that HFS might appreciate it if I add a bit of a love-story element to the relationship between Vhaibars and Kendera. HFS himself said he is open to it, especially since his last attempt at inter-character romance story hilariously failed due to unintentional sabotage by a fellow player (another PC snatched the girl instead). What do you think of this angle?

The Oni
2014-05-09, 01:11 AM
It's good that "magic" wasn't your go-to option (that's both boring and unpleasantly mindrapey). Well there's a couple of op(era)tions:

1. Operation Not-Stockholm-Syndrome: Capture her and a segment of her army. Proceed to treat her and her entire army as respected guests (i.e. better than the Pharaoh she's fighting for). Never once let on that it is the intention of you to turn her loyalties; wait for her to ask why she's being treated so well, and then act like you don't know what she's talking about (implying you treat all your prisoners this well). Her trust in the pharaoh will erode completely as she realizes the PCs are really good people (even if they aren't). Biggest hurdle in this plan is keeping enough of her forces to make a significant point but not so many that you can't actually take them prisoner and hold them reliably. If you have to resort to executions, this plan will fail and fail hard. It also might not work if she's good at psych-warfare, since she'll realize it if your Bluff isn't through the roof.

2. Operation Shock and Awe: Through illusions, sabotage, clever use of pyrotechnics, etc. convince her that your army is absurdly massive or possesses some kind of obscene superweapon that she could not possibly hope to stand against. Being a practical lady of warfare and having no great love for the pharaoh, and caring for the fate of her loyal men (and/or women), she may decide to join you rather than beat you. This one's a shot in the dark but could potentially work if the other two fail due to subtlety not being your PC mastermind's strong suit.

3. Operation False Rommel: Create false evidence that the pharaoh's spies have infiltrated her personal army and are plotting her demise. This helps especially if she's as well-respected by the general populace in her own land (think Erwin Rommel) as by your PC and her enemies as it creates a motive for the paranoid pharaoh to off her. Alternatively, present REAL evidence - I'm not sure how much of a conniving bastard the pharaoh is made out to be, but it's quite possible that such a plan already exists, and there is no need to fabricate it.

John Longarrow
2014-05-09, 09:06 AM
Politics involving a general leading an army of horse archers VS Heavy Infantry.

Vhaibars should use small groups of horse archers (20-50) to harass the Infantry and keep them moving around. His first goal is to get one detachment separated from the main body and surrounded. He should be working to get some of the infantry to surrender, preferably without fighting. NOTE: The commander of a group of 200-500 foot troops surrounded by over a thousand horse archers SHOULD surrender rather than die. Vhaibars then needs to make sure his prisoners are not only very well taken care of, but treated by his troops in a courteous manner.

Vhaibars is looking to be seen as the honorable protector who is moral and ethical, even to his enemies.

Kendera then needs to be exposed to the corruption within the noble houses, probably when dealing with envoys from Vhaibars. He should go out of his way to try for the surrender of an enemy force without combat and emphasize humane treatment of the lower class.

Vhaibars should also try to get the nobles to try something like a scorched earth policy. His goal is to get Kendera to see the Nobles as more of a threat to her homeland and its people than Vhaibars.

Vhaibars should also make it obvious that he is looking for political unity without cultural or religious assimilation. Take a page from the Persian Empires handbook. If his stated goals are "Safety for the people, Honest Trade, Improve the lot of the poor, Education for all" he should be able to win over hearts and minds, including Kendera.

Have Vhaibars toss in a new "Moral and Ethical requirement" for government positions (think Confusian tests in the Chinese Empire) as a check on the Nobles and he may have a hard time NOT getting support.

NOTE: If he's got horse archers against foot infantry he is going to win every fight unless he does something very stupid. This is why Persia was able to hold off Rome. From the description of her troops, Kendera doesn't have troops that could face a roman legion. Heavy Infantry with spears but no missile weapons is standard for Hellenic forces. In game that means they have a good AC (Breastplace + Towershield) but they can't attack mobile archers.

Trasilor
2014-05-09, 10:51 AM
Thinking historically....reasons for Treason:

'Money' - Or something else that can be bartered
Power - military coup is something that happens today.
Love - We do strange things when in love. (Think Willow)
Enlightenment - Showing how evil the bad guy really is
Revenge - Perhaps they already know how bad the bad guy really is...
New Enemy - Enemy of my enemy....

I am sure there is more, but nothing comes to mind... Regardless, it should be the players coming up with ways to 'turn' her. As a DM you ultimately decide if she turns or not. If you want the option - personally, I would make a simple list (like the one above) with reasons she would turn. Design her with motivations beyond "obey my lord/liege".

Then take the list come up with a way that reason would or would not work.

Motivations: Honorable (duty before pleasure), Helping her people (creating a free society for her people), End all conflicts (war is hell...).

'Money' - Direct gold will never work. She prides herself on not being a mercenary. However, she may want something else.

Power - If she was in charge of her home, no more slaves. Unsure if she if fit for the role.

Love - True love would prevent her from attacking but not turn on her own.

Enlightenment - She thinks her society is strong except for the slavery, once removed it will be better. (Whether this is true is up to you. If false, she might be more easily swayed if shown the truth. If true, see Power. Or show her that the corrupt leaders have fallen far from the gods original path. )

Revenge - She loved a man who was denied to her by the powers-that-be. However, a promise of the man she loves might turn her (see 'Money' or Power)

New Enemy - If it can be shown that the current corrupt leadership is actually an enemy to the people, she turn against the nobility. Or a third entity threatens both kingdoms, only by allying themselves can hey possibly win.


Theoretically, there are lots of ways to turn her - but it is up to the PCs to decide which course of action to pursue.


In game that means they have a good AC (Breastplace + Towershield) but they can't attack mobile archers.

In game mechanics, it makes you immune to arrows. Once you have a tower shield, you can take cover. With total cover you cannot be the target of an attack. Plus the OP never said they had zero magic. Wind wall (level 2 spell) shuts down arrows.

Telonius
2014-05-09, 12:14 PM
EDIT: Missed a portion of that, nevermind ... may be back later with advice.

John Longarrow
2014-05-09, 12:26 PM
Trasilor,

Open area. If you rely upon cover (can't move) and wind wall (doesn't move) you get to enjoy the benefits of starvation.
If you move (no cover) you get shot at by readied actions. If you only move under protection from wind wall, you don't move (limits to casting per day).

Of course the mounted archers just need to keep infantry away from water to start the whole "Dehydration" issues.

Arbane
2014-05-09, 03:40 PM
Ask nicely? From what I remember of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, that worked pretty well on a lot of generals.

meto30
2014-05-09, 09:42 PM
Thank you all for these wonderful advice. I have studied every reply in detail and will take all the information to heart in designing the sessions to come.

One thing I'd like to point out though: The matter I asked advice for was roleplaying Kendera, not the tactical/strategical side of things, nor the methodology Vhaibars to use. I believe I've got the former well covered, and the latter is up to the players, not me the DM.

I do appreciate all the help I've been given and I do thank you all, kind sirs; I'd really appreciate it if someone actually helped me with the actual question! :smallfrown:


It's good that "magic" wasn't your go-to option (that's both boring and unpleasantly mindrapey). Well there's a couple of op(era)tions:

1. Operation Not-Stockholm-Syndrome: Capture her and a segment of her army. Proceed to treat her and her entire army as respected guests (i.e. better than the Pharaoh she's fighting for). Never once let on that it is the intention of you to turn her loyalties; wait for her to ask why she's being treated so well, and then act like you don't know what she's talking about (implying you treat all your prisoners this well). Her trust in the pharaoh will erode completely as she realizes the PCs are really good people (even if they aren't). Biggest hurdle in this plan is keeping enough of her forces to make a significant point but not so many that you can't actually take them prisoner and hold them reliably. If you have to resort to executions, this plan will fail and fail hard. It also might not work if she's good at psych-warfare, since she'll realize it if your Bluff isn't through the roof.

-snip-

3. Operation False Rommel: Create false evidence that the pharaoh's spies have infiltrated her personal army and are plotting her demise. This helps especially if she's as well-respected by the general populace in her own land (think Erwin Rommel) as by your PC and her enemies as it creates a motive for the paranoid pharaoh to off her. Alternatively, present REAL evidence - I'm not sure how much of a conniving bastard the pharaoh is made out to be, but it's quite possible that such a plan already exists, and there is no need to fabricate it.
On 1) This I believe should be the core of Vhaibars' turning attempt, to convince Kendera that Mulhorandi propaganda is false, that Vhaibars does not desire the destruction of the Mulhorandi but rather its reformation. This of course will be rather difficult as the Murghomi, the people Vhaibars currently command, are a rather barbaric lot with much bad blood with the Mulhorandi, their former masters. It can be difficult, and even damaging to his reputation, for Vhaibars to convince his own men to not harm any prisoners. And worse, Vhaibars cannot rule without the support of the nobility (practically no-one can in the current social structure of the world), and his nobles want blood, not peace.

On 3) It will be difficult to put the Pharaoh in a bad light, especially since Kendera knows too well that Horustep III is too young and naive to do any political plotting on his own. Kendera is also rather shunned by the xenophobic, traditionalist general populace of Mulhorand, so I don't think this particular path will work in our particular situation. However, I thank you will all sincerity for this advice as well; it will come in handy if suitable circumstance does form up in the future.


Politics involving a general leading an army of horse archers VS Heavy Infantry.

Vhaibars should use small groups of horse archers (20-50) to harass the Infantry and keep them moving around. His first goal is to get one detachment separated from the main body and surrounded. He should be working to get some of the infantry to surrender, preferably without fighting. NOTE: The commander of a group of 200-500 foot troops surrounded by over a thousand horse archers SHOULD surrender rather than die. Vhaibars then needs to make sure his prisoners are not only very well taken care of, but treated by his troops in a courteous manner.
Thank you, dear sir, for this most wonderful and detailed advice. I believe my first advice to Vhaibars would be to either round up a group of select, loyal soldiers to take care of the prisoners or just hire more mercenaries, as it will be difficult to convince the common Murghomi to not mutilate all captured Mulhorandi, let alone treat them with respect.

However, as Kendera is (by fluff) a superb tactician, I don't think she would do something that stupid. It would break all sense of versimilitude, methinks, if she just sends precious troops into death traps like that. Also, I'd like to point out the fact that the Macedonian style features a very effective shock cavalry arm. The horse archers can't get close enough to do several damage without risking melee engagement, and even if they did there are more soldiers in the Mulhorandi army than there are arrows in the Murghomi horse archer formations, rendering their potential rather undecisive. Furthermore, Vhaibars doesn't have thousands of horse archers, he only has 1200. The Chrysoxiphoi alone outnumber his army by 2 to 1, and they'll be supported by the Mulhorandi eastern frontier militia, who outnumber Vhaibars by 10 to 1. If this was a defensive war (as most of Parthia's wars against Rome were) he'd try to starve and dehydrate the Mulhorandi, but it is Murghomi who are invading here. They are in fertile Mulhorandi soil, surrounded by a very uncooperative and zealous Mulhorandi peasantry.

The tactical/strategical side of things are pretty much already all covered, I believe. The rather dire military situation is precisely the reason Vhaibars wants to turn Kendera anyway.


Vhaibars is looking to be seen as the honorable protector who is moral and ethical, even to his enemies. Kendera then needs to be exposed to the corruption within the noble houses, probably when dealing with envoys from Vhaibars. He should go out of his way to try for the surrender of an enemy force without combat and emphasize humane treatment of the lower class. Vhaibars should also try to get the nobles to try something like a scorched earth policy. His goal is to get Kendera to see the Nobles as more of a threat to her homeland and its people than Vhaibars.

Vhaibars should also make it obvious that he is looking for political unity without cultural or religious assimilation. Take a page from the Persian Empires handbook. If his stated goals are "Safety for the people, Honest Trade, Improve the lot of the poor, Education for all" he should be able to win over hearts and minds, including Kendera. Have Vhaibars toss in a new "Moral and Ethical requirement" for government positions (think Confusian tests in the Chinese Empire) as a check on the Nobles and he may have a hard time NOT getting support.
Vhaibars has a few things going against him in playing the morally superior hero, one of them being that he is the head of the Church of Set in Murghom, a faith that is seen as a vile and treacherous cult in Mulhorand (and with good reason - Set's portfolio is evil deeds and plots). He also doesn't have a very good track record regarding prisoners - most of the time he just simply kills them all, selling off a small portion as slaves. Granted, the primary reason he did that was to placate his bloodthirsty nobles (who would want nothing less than to see Mulhorand burn to ashes), but still, his past isn't helping.

As for playing the Mulhorandi nobles against her, that would be rather easy to do. The Great Houses would love to see Kendera fail utterly, so they'd need comparatively little encouragement to actively sabotage her campaign. Perhaps it would be more expedient to not play the hero type but rather the lesser of two evils.

On the issue of following the Confucian model, as East Asians my players and I have first-hand knowledge of what kind of horror that emphasis in morality can do to a government. The Chinese realized this in the late Han dynasty; ever since then Confucianism was simply used as a propaganda/ideological front while the actual core of Chinese Imperial rule was the Legalist school. I am quite confident that if I seriously suggested Confucian ideas to HFS, he'd simply laugh at my face and ask what I've been drinking in the past hour.

But, all things aside, all that is for the players to decide. I thank you nontheless; I will make sure to relay the advice.


NOTE: If he's got horse archers against foot infantry he is going to win every fight unless he does something very stupid. This is why Persia was able to hold off Rome. From the description of her troops, Kendera doesn't have troops that could face a roman legion. Heavy Infantry with spears but no missile weapons is standard for Hellenic forces. In game that means they have a good AC (Breastplace + Towershield) but they can't attack mobile archers.
The Macedonian phalanx (and Hellenic Diadochoi phalanxes that followed it) actually would be wielding leather armour (or cloth armour, even!) with a small shield, meaning a rather pitiful AC. They are the world's first pike formation, and their strength is in their near unstoppable spear-wall up front.

But I digress. The Macedonian army features a very fine cavalry both heavy and light that work in good coordination with the infantry arm; it requires a tactical mind and a capable officer corps to effectively employ this tactic, but both of those the Chrysoxiphoi have in abundance. They also have missle troops; the historial Macedonian army employed Cretan archers to great effect, and in our fictional case Kendera can depend on the Mulhorandi archers, who have superior range than the Murghomi. Taneos, Chrysoxiphoi second-in-command, commands the infantry while Kendera herself usually fights with her cavalry, and he has a steady hand and a clear, quick-thinking mind that would see most horse archer tactics coming from a mile away. This isn't the first time the Chrysoxiphoi fought against the steppe peoples, and the tactics haven't changed a bit in the past four centuries.

I'm terribly sorry to reiterate this, but I do believe we have all the tactical/strategical topics covered on our end.


Ask nicely? From what I remember of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, that worked pretty well on a lot of generals.
That is one possible thing Vhaibars might do; I'm not sure what he's going to do right now, HFS has proven to be unpredictable in the past. My real trouble is in roleplaying Kendera, and what criteria I, as Kendera, should depend on to decide whether or not to defect.

meto30
2014-05-09, 10:03 PM
Thinking historically....reasons for Treason:

'Money' - Or something else that can be bartered
Power - military coup is something that happens today.
Love - We do strange things when in love. (Think Willow)
Enlightenment - Showing how evil the bad guy really is
Revenge - Perhaps they already know how bad the bad guy really is...
New Enemy - Enemy of my enemy....

I am sure there is more, but nothing comes to mind... Regardless, it should be the players coming up with ways to 'turn' her. As a DM you ultimately decide if she turns or not. If you want the option - personally, I would make a simple list (like the one above) with reasons she would turn. Design her with motivations beyond "obey my lord/liege".

Then take the list come up with a way that reason would or would not work.

Motivations: Honorable (duty before pleasure), Helping her people (creating a free society for her people), End all conflicts (war is hell...).

'Money' - Direct gold will never work. She prides herself on not being a mercenary. However, she may want something else.

Power - If she was in charge of her home, no more slaves. Unsure if she if fit for the role.

Love - True love would prevent her from attacking but not turn on her own.

Enlightenment - She thinks her society is strong except for the slavery, once removed it will be better. (Whether this is true is up to you. If false, she might be more easily swayed if shown the truth. If true, see Power. Or show her that the corrupt leaders have fallen far from the gods original path. )

Revenge - She loved a man who was denied to her by the powers-that-be. However, a promise of the man she loves might turn her (see 'Money' or Power)

New Enemy - If it can be shown that the current corrupt leadership is actually an enemy to the people, she turn against the nobility. Or a third entity threatens both kingdoms, only by allying themselves can hey possibly win.


Theoretically, there are lots of ways to turn her - but it is up to the PCs to decide which course of action to pursue.

This is absolutely the most helpful among the advice so far, and dear sir I can't thank you enough for it. The table/list idea is something I (stupidly) haven't considered, and I will make one right away to help me better simulate the insides of Kendera's mind. Your list (the spoilered one) is very superb; I think I'll be basing the full table on that one.

I think you are rather right on love not being a real motivator for treason - I should turn that factor down in the actual turning process. Perhaps it can become a major part of her relationship with Vhaibars once she does turn.

Kendera seeks to free her people, but she has no particular opinion on slavery in general; she is merely uncomfortable about it. Murghom, Vhaibar's nation, practices slavery, however; Vhaibars himself owns hundreds of slaves, most of them working on the fields back home. Vhaibars' most trusted companion, Imguld son of Imhald, is also his slave. Mulhorand actually treats its slaves far better than Murghom does! And they both treat slaves far, far better than the accursed Thayans do.

They do have a third party that can serve as a powerful common enemy - they have several, in fact. The Dambrath hussars are some of the most renown horsemen of the continent. The Red Wizards of Thay always look southward toward Mulhorand with predatory eyes, and would love to step in and conquer them all if Mulhorand is sufficiently weakened. The Imperium of Chessenta (the 2nd Empire) is continuing its conquest streak, and has never been stopped even once yet; Vhaibars however has a secret understanding with the Chessentan Emperor where Tchazzar will not invade Mulhorand proper in return for Vhaibars making sure Mulhorandi forces won't be able to interfere with the Chessentan conquest of Unther. If Thay (this is not a typo of "they", I really do mean Thay!) were to step in, Vhaibars would have serious trouble on his hands, and that's why he needs to take control of Mulhorand as quickly and harmlessly as possible. Vhaibars once considered just walking up to the Pharaoh, explain the situation, and offer a hand in alliance; but he ultimately decided against it, as he does not trust the Mulhorandi nobility to cooperate, or rule effectively at all. Vhaibars wants to purge Mulhorand of its corruption, and he will do that with a flaming brand.

Synvallius
2014-05-10, 02:14 AM
If the whole of the Chrysoxiphoi are loyal to her, and she is intent upon alleviating the plight of her people (while at the same time maintaining her loyalty to the nation of Mulhorand) it would make a fair amount of sense for her to turn on the military of Mulhorand (which is likely comprised of soldiers who fight for the nobility, and thus her political enemies) and join the invaders, with the intent of turning on them once she has used them to gain control of Mulhorand herself (it's happened many times in history, particularly Byzantine history, when nearly every Emperor had to deal with treacherous generals siding with the Turks or the Bulgarians against him and trying to claim the empire for themselves, without ever really considering just how dangerous their alliance with an enemy nation could be). During the time in which she sides with Vhaibars, she would likely already be feeling conflicted about her choice to turn on her own nation (even if not against her people, the moral line would be difficult to define exactly enough to fit most people's ideals of loyalty easily), so it would be possible that she would feel vulnerable enough that if Vhaibars came in with enough reasoning (or deception, dressed up with charm and perceived enlightenment [I hold to the philosophy that no nomad is truly enlightened, and so far it's never failed me]) he could bring her over to his own side well enough that she (through a matter of both attachment and trust to Vhaibars, and also through some denial [she'd feel guilty enough over betraying her nation, and guilt is often turned outwards, she could eventually feel that slaughtering the nobility at least {if not perhaps even the peasants, eventually} was justifiable if not even deserved, due to their past treatment of her]) would be willing to do most anything he wanted. That is, assuming she was able to: 1, be convinced that Vhaibars would be likely to win militarily with her support; 2, that she would be a better ruler than the current rulers of Mulhorand, or would at least be able to better see to the needs of her people; 3, would be either naive enough or perhaps desperate enough to trust in a bloodthirsty (seemingly) nomad in conquering her own nation; 4, that she would then feel some guilt over her actions which could then be exploited for Vhaibars' benefit; and 5, that she would eventually feel such attachment (or loyalty) to Vhaibars that she would have no qualms following his orders, even if they seem to contradict her own agenda (as after a certain point of betraying her principles on minor issues, she would eventually be able to bull over her principles on major issues with little difficulty, especially if she has "good" reasons to do so [which would, of course, be supplied by Vhaibars]). If Vhaibars can manipulate her down that road, and if you feel that she would deduce a better overall strategy for achieving her own goals by siding with Vhaibars, then that would be a likely bet of both how to pull off her actions while also meeting Vhaibars' possible strategy.