Level 7 gestalt

[Renen]

Was hoping someone can give me some interesting PrCs or classes that would work well in a lvl 7 gestalt. I dont need a whole build, just some neat classes to look into.

I know that some things work better in gestalt (like that "holy" warlock PrC). But I am just looking for some PrC (or maybe feat line) that I can try and build around to make a strong gestalt.

So far, I have a Totemist 7//Warblade 4/warshaper2/Master shifter (I think its called) 1
The amount of natural attacks is impressive. (I got around 9, assuming warshaper is only used to grant me one)

But I was looking for something else I could try. But I need a starting point. Hmm... maybe undead shadow sun ninja?

[Yorrin]

Well, you're already aware of Incarnum, which is what I was gonna come in suggesting. Because a Totemist|Dragonfire Adept is one of my favorite "simple" gestalt builds and perhaps the most SAD build in existence.

The general advice is to have one "active" side (Caster, ToB class, etc) and one "passive" side (Incarnum class, Rogue/Factotum, Binder).

[John Longarrow]

Lvl 1 Crusader-1/Wizard-1
Lvl 2 Archivist-1/Wizard-2

Continue Archivist/wizard here out.

SAD for Int. Also gets full BAB and OK HPs.
If you are willing to split between INT and WIS, replace Archivist with Cloistered Cleric for more fun!

[Renen]

While that build is T1, the problem is its low HP and reliance on SoS spells. So something like my previously mentioned character can pounce and kill this one in one round. I am looking for sometbing that (preferably) has infinite uses of its abilities (ToB, incarnum, vestiges), and starts being good around lvl 7.

I am looking into the DFA now, but how well does he synergises with totemist (who is mostly all about pounce and full attacks with natural weapons)

[infomatic]

How are you getting into Warshaper? Totemist doesn't qualify, and neither does Warblade. You'd need something like Totemist//Wild-Shape Ranger/Warshaper.

Wizard/Archivist is superb, as noted. Not unlimited uses of abilities, but if you're a smart caster you won't notice the problem.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sneak attack or Skirmish or similar would be beneficial with a lot of attacks. Some kind of Swift Hunter build with Totemist could work out, but you would need to charge every round to get the most out of it. Sneak attack has similar problems, though you can dip Swordsage for Island of Blades to help with that, and I'd get Wild Cohort or similar to always have someone to help flank.

I'd dip one level of Spellthief, which allows you to freely use wands of many spells such as Wraithstrike, then take Psion until you can get Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d). Consider mixing Psion levels with Totemist to get max level manifesting for your character level. Also see if your DM will waive the alignment and special prerequisites of Psychic Assassin in exchange for removing the poison use and death attack class features. Get Mind Cripple from Psychic Assassin, so you'll be dealing 2 Int damage with every sneak attack. With nine attacks/round, that's 18 Int damage, an opponents are put into a coma and helpless if their Int is reduced to zero by that.

[Renen]

Trust me it would be a problem to have things in limited format.

As for warshaper, my race is shifter.
I have 6 claws, a bite, a gore, and a tail.
Some from soulmelds some from shifting etc.

Edit: thanks biffo. Some nice ideas there.

Edit 2: so basically, I am looking for a strooong build, without actually being pun pun. No TO or infinite loops, but I think 9 attacks per round at lvl 7 definitely qualifies as strong.

Oh btw, what are the rules on "stacking" natural attacks. Like if I have a d6 claw, and bind a meld that gives me claws. Do I pick the best one (im 99% sure) or is there some obscure thing that can let em atack.

[Yorrin]

Oh btw, what are the rules on "stacking" natural attacks. Like if I have a d6 claw, and bind a meld that gives me claws. Do I pick the best one (im 99% sure) or is there some obscure thing that can let em atack.

Any claws beyond the first pair must specify that they are in addition, elsewise you pick the best ones. So for example girallon arms give you +2, but sphinx claws do not.

[Renen]

Any more ideas? Even as little as suggesting a PrC because of a unique feature. Like undead shadowsun ninjas touching themselves

[TiaC]

Green sun adept is actually quite good in gestalt. Just don't take level 10.

[TheMooch]

if you are allowed to prc on both sides

ranger5/barbarian 1/scout 1 // swordsage 5/Dervish 2 its a fun TWF build that packs in extra damage(swift hunter, imp skirmish, flay foe, favered enemy), pretty SAD(weapon finesse, shadow blade) and actually has decent survivability (elusive target).

final build looks like ranger 15/scout 4/barbarian1 // swordsage 5/dervish 10/tempest 5
highlights:
pounce
SAD dex
extra attacks (7 on a full round)
can move while taking a full round action which activates skirmish
when moving gain extra damage (5d6) and AC

swift blade also works with this

[Renen]

Im not sadly.
Standard gestalt rules.

I am just looking for something with a hiiiight optimization ceiling.

[Azoth]

Silverbrow Human
Bard7//battledancer1/Cloistered Cleric1/Paladin of Freedom2/Crusader2/X1

If you take Snowflake war dance you are pure Cha sad and one hell of a buffer with DFI and its optimization.

Cleric is to snag some useful devotions like Travel for a pseudo pounce.

[Renen]

And is it solo friendly? :D

[thethird]

Factotum // Artificer? It is one of my favorite gestalt combos, do anything given time.

Duskblade // Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 3 / Prestige Bard 1 / Unseen Seer 2

With Master spellthief, steal a spell and channel it through your arcane channeling, be sneaky.

Swashbuckler 4 / Rogue 3... // Scout 4 / Ranger 3...

A more mundane build.

Wizard 7 // Warblade 5 / Revenant Blade 2

Cast-y and hit-y Needs elf.

[Azoth]

I can be made so. You will burn through bardic music uses and TU like no one's business as well.

Basic setup for lvl7 would look something like this.

Bard ACFs:
Swap out a song for Healing Hymn at first level
Swap out song gained at 3rd level for Song of the Heart
Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Music

Cleric Domains:
Travel swapped for devotion
Undeath to grant Extra Turn Undead
Knowledge

Feats:
Flaw: Jack of All Trades
Flaw: DFI
Human: Power Attack
1st: Snowflake Wardance
3rd: Divine Might
Bard3: Song of the Heart
6: Words of Creation

Take Skill Focus (Perform: any) then pull a 2lvl dip in Seeker of the Song.

Between Jack of All Trades and Bardic Knack all Cross Class skills are treated as 1 rank away from max.

Healing Hymn adds Perform Ranks to any conjuration (healing) spell you cast so at lvl 7 CLW pops for 1d8+15. Good to patch yourself up between fights when you don't have a wand.

At lvl 7 between WoC, SotH, Inspiration Boost, and a Badge of Valor you are DFI goes for either +8 or +10 depending on what your DM rules WoC to double. So that is either +8 (+10) to hit & damage or +8(+10)d6 elemental damage to each hit.

Snowflake Wardance gives you Cha to hit (Free action), Divine Migt gives it to damage (Free action), Battle Dancer gives it to AC (passive), Paladin gives it to Saves (passive).

First round of combat is Inspiration Boost+song. Second Round is Badge of Valor, Travel devotion, Snowflake Wardance, Divine Might, and Smash!

[Socratov]

I call it AllDayEveryDay

Warforged Warlock 6/Barbarian(spirit lion totem) 1///Warblade 7

Ok, here goes:

step 1: get melee spec attributes.
step 2: pick utility invocations (Baleful Utterance, See the Unseen, Fell Flight, [4th invocation])
step 3: go two hand powerattack while charging, raging, pouncing and using maneuvers and refreshing said maneuvers
step 4: channel your inner blender
step 5: quote Conan on the finer pleasures of life
step 6: laugh at sleeping meatbags while you continue on your rampage.

As long as you don't change out your maneuvers readied you can refresh them with a normal attack. The warlok in your build grants you all the things you normally need to get items for (flight, seeing invisibility, creating minions, and grants you a ranged attack. it also gives you a good willsave and when built well doesn't really have a need for stats, feats or any other fancy mumbo jumbo.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This is a melee build:

Human, Wizard (Transmuter) 5/ Incantatrix 2// Archivist 7, future levels Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 10/ Abjurant Champion 5// Archivist 20
This Wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) from UA, get TWF instead of Scribe Scroll, trade your Wizard 5 feat for the domain power ACF in CC for the Planning domain to get Extend Spell. Prohibited schools are Enchantment, Evocation, and Illusion.
Two flaws for two extra feats: Love of Nature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30) and Weak-Willed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm). Note that flaws must be taken during character creation but do not necessarily have to be taken at 1st level unless you're creating the character at 1st level.
Gain Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole in CS for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it.
Feats: TWF (W1), Iron Will (OH), Fell Drain Spell (H), Fell Frighten Spell (1), Knowledge Devotion (F), Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) (3), Extend Spell (W5), Skill Focus: Spellcraft (6), Persistent Spell (Icx), Minor Shapeshift (F).
Skills: Max ranks in Concentration, Spellcraft, Kn: Arcana, and as many ranks as possible in each of the following: Kn: Dungeoneering, Kn: Local, Kn: Nature, Kn: Religion, Kn: The Planes. Get the Collector of Stories and Swift Concentration skill tricks in CS.

Your Item Familiar is a Ring of Protection +1 which you've invested as many skill points as possible into (4th-7th level) for the greatest return toward Spellcraft. Assuming Int 16 and Human, that's an extra +8 toward Spellcraft. You upgraded it yourself to have a +10 Competence bonus to Spellcraft (DMG p285) plus a +1 Deflection bonus to AC (MIC p234), which cost 5,000 gp and 400 xp to upgrade. You also have a masterwork tool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork) (quick reference guide) to get another +2 to Spellcraft. That's 10 ranks, +10 competence, +8 invest skill ranks, +2 masterwork tool, +3 skill focus, +3 Int, +2 synergy = +38 to Spellcraft, so you can make a DC 48 check by taking ten. The DC to use Cooperative Metamagic or Metamagic Effect to add Persistent Spell to a 4th level spell is 48. If you continue putting max ranks in Spellcraft and investing all your skill ranks, that should increase by at least +3 every two levels, so you'll always be able to persist your highest level spells with your Incantatrix abilities. Note that Cooperative Metamagic can be used on your own spells outside of combat since the action economy system only exists during initiative. Your other items should include two Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend, a Rod of Bodily Restoration if possible, and Gloves of the Balanced Hand if possible.

Daily buffs: Persistent Fell Drain Ice Axe, Persistent Fell Drain Flame Blade, Persistent Fell Drain Death Armor, Persistent Divine Power, Persistent Shield, Lesser Rod of Extended Luminous Armor, Lesser Rod of Extended Greater Magic Weapon on the Ice Axe and Flame Blade, Lesser Rod of Extended Magic Vestment on the Shield and Luminous Armor, Lesser Rod of Extended Longstrider, Endure Elements, Greater Resistance. Keep Polymorph prepared but don't cast it, just have it available to use Minor Shapeshift to gain seven temporary hp every round.

Later on use both Fell Drain and Fell Frighten with your Persistent Ice Axe, Flame Blade, Death Armor, and Fire Shield (both warm and chill). Consider persisting buffs that benefit the party such as Elation, Mass Lesser Vigor, and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful once you get Metamagic Effect and can have twice as many persistent spells. Note that you can add multiple metamagic feats to an ongoing spell, but it will take multiple uses of your Incantatrix abilities and it will have an increased DC to account for the total metamagic cost.

With Dex 15 you'll have an AC of 24 and anything that uses sight and attacks you in melee takes a -4 to hit. Your saves will be Fort 5+Con, Reflex 5+Con, Will 9+Wis.
Anything that attacks you in melee without using a reach weapon takes 1d4+3 untyped magic damage and gains a negative level, but no more than one negative level per round per creature.
With Str 12 your full attack will be as follows: Main hand +10/+5 melee touch, offhand +10 melee touch (+10/+5 with Gloves of the Balanced Hand), damage for the Ice Axe is 2d12+4 cold plus a negative level, damage for the Flame Blade is 1d8+4 fire plus a negative level. A given creature can only receive one negative level per round from each weapon.

[XmonkTad]

Is LA buyoff allowed? LA is much more of a handicap in gestalt due to losing out on two sets of class features. If so, why not go Fighter7// Goliath Barbarian 5/Hulking Hurler 1/War Hulk 1. Your rage makes you large sized, but otherwise you don't qualify as large, so you lose the "benefit" of the war hulk PrC. "No Time to Think" is important to be able to turn off.

If there is no LA buyoff, this idea becomes a lot less appealing.

[Renen]

Isnt there some lvl 4 undead template that causes level loss if you hit someone and they fail a save?
Perhaps that could be optimized?