Pitch me some ideas for playing in this group

[Feint's End]

Hello everybody hope you're having a grand day so far. I soon will join a group currently consisting of 4 players and I'm not quite sure about what to play yet. I already had a character for one session but asked my dm for changing it since it wasn't quite hitting the spot.

The groups current composition
dwarf cleric: not too much info about him ... I guess healing and defense
human sorceror: new player; from what I've seen so far he uses mainly damaging spells and gets himself killed afterwards
halfling rogue: new player; hasn't done much yet except for opening one lock
elf barbarian: having natural armor instead of armor; he is the one I worry the least about simply because he works as intended

I can use almost all material available for 3.5 and PF and we have rolled stats BUT they have to sum up to a bonus of +8 (if +7 or +9 rolled they will be changed to +8). It's also important to note that the dm likes gritty low level play -> gear is harder to aquire and we will be low level for a good while.

I'm looking more for interesting character concepts and interesting races since classes are just tools for building those. Thanks for your ideas.

[Gabrosin]

Do you want to be the best character in the party? Probably Druid.

Do you want to smash things? Maybe a Warblade.

Honestly, the party has all the basic roles covered with no glaring needs. You could take this opportunity to play a niche character in whatever vein suits you, or you can add pure power by going with a top-line class.

[FullStop]

I'm thinking lockdown/tripper(thicket of blades Crusader, for example), or something that can be backup-everything, like a factotum or Bard.

[Feint's End]

The group is rather low op but the dm is quite experienced so he can handle some different powerlevels. I'm looking more for interesting character concepts as I've mentioned (classes and races and backstory) since I can decide class afterwards.

I like the idea of generalist kinda type ... how good do incarnists work? I know good about most classes but never took that close of a look at incarnum.

[John Longarrow]

A Bard/Marshal/Aura user?

Mix several classes together that all give buffs to the rest. This will make everyone shine even without their good gear.

[Yorrin]

I like the idea of generalist kinda type ... how good do incarnists work? I know good about most classes but never took that close of a look at incarnum.

I was actually planning to suggest either Incarnate or Totemist when you mentioned that your DM likes to be stingy with his equipment. The way they both work is essentially creating their own set of free magic items that only they can use, but they can only have a certain number of them at any given time, and you pick which ones you're using based on a class list. I'll use Totemist as an example, since I know them significantly better. So they can shape a pair of claws and a tail at level one that gives them three natural attacks, and then at level two they can get a bite attack to bring that up to four. Not shabby for a second level character. BUT they could instead choose things that gave them bonuses to natural armor and an at-will Dimension Door. Or a bunch of skill bonuses. Or any of several more options. And they can change it up each day, mixing and matching as needed. It's a great system, and one I highly recommend if you're party has already covered all the main roles.

[Red Fel]

I was actually planning to suggest either Incarnate or Totemist when you mentioned that your DM likes to be stingy with his equipment. The way they both work is essentially creating their own set of free magic items that only they can use, but they can only have a certain number of them at any given time, and you pick which ones you're using based on a class list. I'll use Totemist as an example, since I know them significantly better. So they can shape a pair of claws and a tail at level one that gives them three natural attacks, and then at level two they can get a bite attack to bring that up to four. Not shabby for a second level character. BUT they could instead choose things that gave them bonuses to natural armor and an at-will Dimension Door. Or a bunch of skill bonuses. Or any of several more options. And they can change it up each day, mixing and matching as needed. It's a great system, and one I highly recommend if you're party has already covered all the main roles.

Seconding this suggestion. Incarnum is a great system. (However, avoid the Soulborn. It's like a Paladin, but worse.) Basically, at first level in an Incarnum class, you gain access to that class' entire list of soulmelds, and can switch them out on a daily basis.

Here's the fluff, because I know that's what you're looking for. Incarnates embody a single alignment - NG, NE, LN or CN. They represent its power and its concept. For that, just pick an alignment you want to play, and a race that fits it. For example, a Dragonborn (anything) makes for a crazy fun NG Incarnate. A Neraph (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040613a&page=2) makes for a fine CN Incarnate (although Chaotic Incarnates tend to be weaker unless you're keeping them in ranged combat). A Warforged might make for a frightening LN Incarnate. And so forth. Have a handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=580.0).

In terms of functionality, Incarnates are strictly middle-of-the-pack. They don't excel at damage, or tanking, or what-have-you, but they have a wide array of abilities (particularly when you include Draconic (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4) and Psionic (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) soulmelds) and can switch them out from one day to the next. They're very much a "Swiss army knife" class.

Totemists, instead of embodying an alignment, embody the spirits of magical beasts. Their soulmelds draw on beast spirits, and allow them to adopt their powers. Something savage works very well with this; basically, think of it as a slightly magical Barbarian. Have another handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=583.0).

In terms of functionality, Totemists are melee beasts. With the right build, you'll have a metric ton of natural weapons, and can shred face with the best of them. You won't necessarily have the versatility of other classes, but you'll dominate combat with the right setup.

In the alternative, consider a "redeemer" concept - somebody trying to be a better person. Consider the Hellbred race (Fiendish Codex II) as an option here - they are literally evil souls who sought redemption too late, and are given a single chance at redemption. (ProTip: Don't die.) They make for great epic heroes. Go with a Paladin archetype and go to town. Better yet, work your way into the Fist of Raziel (BoED) or Hellreaver (FC II again) PrCs for some awe-inspiring heroism.

[Feint's End]

Thanks to Yorrin and Red Fel. I know the basics of Incarnum and took a look at MOI now. Would it be unreasonable to increase the number of skillpoints Incarnists and/or Totemists get? (Totemist seems fine) They seem to have very few for a flexible class. I'd probably like to avoid the totemist though because the barbarian already has a very strong natures warrior vibe going and if I'd do the same thing I'd rather have a very distinctive way of doing it.

Incarnum is definitely a strong contester .... I probably could even combine it with psionics later. I just got my hands on Ultimate Psionics (PF) and there are some great options in there ... Combining Incarnist with an wisdom based Manifester seems especially taunting.

As for race. I tend to pick one unique or strongly altered from Pathfinder because I can keep them as writtin (meaning better stats and interesting alternate racial features in a lot of cases).

About the story/plot: We are in a country dominated by (evil) dragons and trying to start a rebellion against them. Dragonborn were altered in this setting and are not tied to alignment but stronger to the dragons themselves meaning that they are (as far as I know) exclusively devoted to the evil overlords ... I might come from the asian inspired part of the setting though where dragons are non evil.

edit: in fact now after I looked at the Incarnist ... they look awesome. I'm not really a fan of alignment restricted classes but if it's necessary I can play along (is there a homebrew class/alternate class with no restriction somewhere?). Now only if they had more skillpoints ...

[Katana1515]

I would like to point you towards the ongoing playtest for Dreamscarred Presses update to the Incarnum system for Pathfinder. In particular the Vizier class seems to be the spiritual successor class to the Incarnate but with none of the alignment limiting fluff. obviously its not official material yet so it requires DM approval, but the class seems to fit the bill of strong T3 to me so far, with no obvious gamebreaking mechanics or the like.

the Vizier can be found here https://www.dropbox.com/s/co2i27hemdi9kg8/MagicofIncarnaPlaytest.pdf

and you can find the rest of the playtest materials on this thread http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325776-DSP-PF-Magic-of-Incarna-Playtest-Open/page14

Hope this helps!

[Kane0]

Incarnate sounds a fine idea, and youd barely have to change anything to make it compatible with PF content.

Edit: on their skillpoints, you dont actually need more than what they give you if you have a skim over the handbook previously linked and the meld list. A lot of melds grant skill bonuses that allow you to skillmmonkey very well and your decisions arent locked in because they can be reshaped. You also benefit from a solid INT score so teres a couple more skills up your sleeve. The incarnate can fill a lot of roles by clever use of his meld list rather than his base chassis.

That said, if you can convince your DM to allow a medium BAB progression or 4 + int skills per level then more power to you, but getting both of those might be pushing it, even for PF standards.

Alternatively, If you're playing a dragon heavy campaign, why not consider DFA or Dragon Shaman? Don't forget to ask your DM if he's okay with homebrew, since he sounds pretty permissive. A lot of people have some great stuff over in the homebrew section.

[Warlocknthewind]

Yet another +1 to Incarnate or Totemist, with a recommendation to splash a level of crusader in there for the ability to keep that Sorcerer and Rogue more protected. Totemist Crusaders have in Martial Spirit stance, with Therapeutic Mantle shaped, with that high number of slaps would be very hard to knock down.