Factotum 3 multiclassing decision help

[Oddman80]

I am about to start a game with a level 3 Human Factotum build that includes 2 Fonts of Inspiration and a Knowledge Devotion (human bonus) Feat.

28 point buy:
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 10

I plan on him focusing on archery as his main attack, when not using Inspiration Points. I was planning on dipping Martial Rogue for the next 2 levels to pick up Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot feats as well as Evasion Class ability – all while getting 8 + Int Mod skills per level. I’m not sure if getting trapfinding a second time can be upgraded to trapsense – I’ll have to talk to the DM.

At level 6, I was planning on taking Fighter in order to get both QuickDraw (fighter bonus) & Mercurial Strike (level 6 feat) to take advantage of Iaijatsu Focus on attacks of opportunity. Strap a Guisarme on my back and I can Mercurial Strike/Iajatsu Focus attack anyone that tries to approach me before they can actually get to me. Taking fighter has less skill points but helps build up the fortitude save, and could potentially buff my Hit Points a bit. Plus, with a full BAB, I would have +4 to attack, the same as I would had I not even multi-classed.

From there I would stick with Factotum for the remainder of the build, which would put my level 20 BAB at +14.

So here’s the question. Would I be better off going Factotum 3/Cloistered Cleric 1/Martial Rogue 2 before continuing on with the Factotum progression. Here I would sub out the Knowledge devotion feat I had planned on taking for the start of the build, and just take Point Blank Shot as my Human Bonus Feat. I miss out on Knowledge Devotion for one level, but by delaying, I would get it back when I cashed in my cleric domains for their respective devotion feats. I would also gain flight for at least 1 minute a day (Animal Devotion), as well as an extra move as swift action for at least 1 minute a day (Travel Devotion). My Fortitude save would benefit just as much as it would with Fighter and I would also build up my Will Save a bit as a bonus. I would get an extra 4 skill points (compared to Fighter) – though the cloistered cleric skill list has a lot to be desired considering what I planned on maxing out. Just to top it all off – I would gain the ability to use wands – and so I wouldn’t have to invest skills in maxing out UMD like I would have needed to do otherwise. That’s like giving me an extra 24 bonus skills over the 20 levels. It seems like the only downside would be that at level 6, my BAB would only be a +3, and I would finish at level 20 with a BAB of +13.

Hmmm.. writing this all out makes it seem almost silly to question which version to go with. Cloistered Cleric, right?

OK – since I got you all to read this much, I may as well ask for advice on where to go from there in terms of feats. I am not going to go whisper gnome/quickrazor – I already have enough idiosyncrasy built in with some other templated traits that I will not delve into at this time. I wasn’t going to go the Intimidate/demoralize/Imperious command route as it is both counter to my character’s style and the campaign will be facing a majority of plant based monsters from what I have heard. And Plant types are immune to mind affecting effects which would include demoralization. I was thinking Darkstalker feat at lvl 9 to help with stealth. I was maxing out Move Silently, Hide, Knowledge Nature, Bluff, Iajatsu Focus and Tumble to get AoO immunity.

Any recommendations beyond that? Feats for levels 12, 15 & 18? Skills or skill tricks that would go well with what I mentioned?

[Gildedragon]

Might I point you to my handbook?

Also what stats? How is your wisdom? Cause if it isn't particularly good don't do Cleric.

[Gildedragon]

Kay so couppa things: if you're set on rogue: check its acfs there are a few that allow swapping trapfinding for goodies.
With your multiclassing you really ought take able learner
The karmic twin feat is also your friend.
Flight: use the spell ooooor Mulhorandi Divine Minon (for +1 LA... Or +0 if you take a lose interpretation of the Lesser planetouched option; MDM makes you an outsider, drop that for wild shape)

[Kazudo]

The only thing you can really get for Trapfinding that's any good gives you the ability to appraise divine items easier, IIRC. Rogue doesn't have a lot of INCREDIBLY amazing ACFs (save for Penetrating Strike, since Trap Sense can be pretty useless.)

[Gildedragon]

Iirc: poison use can be got, and there's other stuff in dragmag
And anything is better than a doubled non fixed ability

[Kazudo]

Gah. Dragmag. I always forget that one.

Poison Use isn't terrible, but all it does (Drow of the Underdark, right?) is negate the possibility of your poison affecting you upon using it, which is great and all if you intend to use poisons. If not, though...Well, it's Trap Finding 2.0.

Surprisingly, giving up one of the Rogue's key features just isn't that good. In the long run, you're better finding an ACF for wherever else you're getting trapfinding.

[Gildedragon]

Problem is factotum has no ACFs
Note that if dipping in matrial rogue best to do that at lvl 1: more skillpoints that way

[Kazudo]

Problem is factotum is made of ACFs
Note that if dipping in matrial rogue best to do that at lvl 1: more skillpoints that way

Fixed that for you. :smalltongue:

Changeling Rogue I think grants some of the best skill point advantage. 10+INT, IIRC. The first level progression, assuming an INT 18 and Nymph's Kiss, would grant 57 skill points, which maxes out 14 skills with 1 point left over.

[Oddman80]

Gah. Dragmag. I always forget that one.

Poison Use isn't terrible, but all it does (Drow of the Underdark, right?) is negate the possibility of your poison affecting you upon using it, which is great and all if you intend to use poisons. If not, though...Well, it's Trap Finding 2.0.

Surprisingly, giving up one of the Rogue's key features just isn't that good. In the long run, you're better finding an ACF for wherever else you're getting trapfinding.

like i said, though - the main creature type this campaign will be going up against is Plant Types. Which are, unfortunately both immune to critical hits (and therefore Sneak Attack) as well as immune to Poison, Fear Effects, Morale effects, and several others. I was going martial rogue vs standard fighter for the extra skill points (almost all of which will tie into the skills i was focussing on) and evasion.

Regarding Able Learner - i didn't think it would be necessary for such a small (3 level) jump into multiclassing. If I put all my Cloistered Cleric points into Craft (weaponsmithing - to replenish arrows when shops are unavailable) and Knowledge Religion (to help against any undead we may face) I am good. During the rogue levels, i can pretty much put ranks in any of the skills i had mentioned and pick up a couple skill tricks to boot. That way when I return to Factotum, I will not have lost anything significant. As is, i had 3 extra skill points every level beyond my maxing out skills - so i can back fill the skills from the lost levels (Iaijatsu focus)

[Oddman80]

Problem is factotum has no ACFs
Note that if dipping in matrial rogue best to do that at lvl 1: more skillpoints that way

i hadn't thought of that (starting martial rogue) - would be useful - but not sure if it fits with the character who had been completely non combative until level 3... i might make it work. it will just mean starting the game for a level without brains over brawn.

[Kazudo]

If you're going up against something like that, a Ranger/Scout build using Swift Hunter would be your best bet, because then you can add your skirmish damage to whatever your favored enemy is and, IIRC, regardless of whether or not it's immune to critical damage. Plants, IIRC, are also NOT immune to flanking just because of type (can change for individual instances), so the Penetrating Strike ACF for rogue would allow you to add half of your SA dice to your attacks as long as you are FLANKING the enemy.

[Gildedragon]

like i said, though - the main creature type this campaign will be going up against is Plant Types.

If you are set on doing Cloistered Cleric (which unless you got rather good Wis isn't really the best choice, you don't get that much out of it) get the Plant Domain; turn enemies into allies.
Alternatively, ask if you can trade the Turn Undead from Opportunistic Piety for Turn Plants. Alternatively Alchemist's Arrows (A&EG) full of Defoliator (same damage as Alch Fire, so it ought be acceptable)
otherwise mister full of defoliator.

Also note that they are considered Objects so there might be some fun to be had with that.



Regarding Able Learner - i didn't think it would be necessary for such a small (3 level) jump into multiclassing. If I put all my Cloistered Cleric points into Craft (weaponsmithing - to replenish arrows when shops are unavailable) and Knowledge Religion (to help against any undead we may face) I am good. During the rogue levels, i can pretty much put ranks in any of the skills i had mentioned and pick up a couple skill tricks to boot. That way when I return to Factotum, I will not have lost anything significant. As is, i had 3 extra skill points every level beyond my maxing out skills - so i can back fill the skills from the lost levels (Iaijatsu focus)

Mmmm perhaps. Though from what you mentioned you'd be skipping around quite a few classes, which ain't bad, just keep in mind able learner is lvl 1 only

[Urpriest]

I am about to start a game with a level 3 Human Factotum build that includes 2 Fonts of Inspiration and a Knowledge Devotion (human bonus) Feat.

Better switch one of the FoIs with Knowledge Devotion, since you can't qualify for it at first level.

[bekeleven]

If you are set on doing Cloistered Cleric (which unless you got rather good Wis isn't really the best choice, you don't get that much out of it)

Cloistered cleric dips give so much that the spellcasting isn't even the selling point.