Help with a Concept: Poisoner Witch. I'd offer cookies, but. . . .

[Amphetryon]

Request in title. The concept is a Tiefling Witch driven slightly mad* from inhaling the fumes from her own Cauldron (the Hex), creating Poisons, Oozes, and other such nasties.

I know that Brew Potion in general, and Poisons in particular, suffer from some. . . issues in Pathfinder, and that some of what I'm attempting could be replicated instead by an Alchemist build, but this is the concept I'd like to work with.

*Mad is represented here by a WIS of 5; this is not negotiable or otherwise subject to change.

[Feint's End]

Request in title. The concept is a Tiefling Witch driven slightly mad* from inhaling the fumes from her own Cauldron (the Hex), creating Poisons, Oozes, and other such nasties.

I know that Brew Potion in general, and Poisons in particular, suffer from some. . . issues in Pathfinder, and that some of what I'm attempting could be replicated instead by an Alchemist build, but this is the concept I'd like to work with.

*Mad is represented here by a WIS of 5; this is not negotiable or otherwise subject to change.

I'm in a hurry now so a detailed answer but since you have a wis of 5 it would be a good idea to pick a hedgehog with a bonus to will saves (-3 is pretty hefty there). Would be quite funny to see the interaction between your character and the familiar trying to talk sense into him.

[Amphetryon]

I'm in a hurry now so a detailed answer but since you have a wis of 5 it would be a good idea to pick a hedgehog with a bonus to will saves (-3 is pretty hefty there). Would be quite funny to see the interaction between your character and the familiar trying to talk sense into him.

I actually picked my Familiar before deciding on the Poisoner route, with the Greensting Scorpion being a contributing factor in pointing me toward poisons. Talking to the Familiar will be fun, though.

[Serafina]

The recently-released Alchemy Manual (http://www.google.com/cse?cx=006680642033474972217%3A6zo0hx_wle8&q=%22alchemy+manual%22#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=%22alchemy%20manual%22&gsc.ref=more%3Afeats&gsc.sort=) has a bunch of feats that make poison much more viable.

Poison Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/poison-focus) increases the DC of any poison you craft by 1 - not much, but it should help.
Toxicological Timing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/toxicological-timing) and it's improved version (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-toxicological-timing) make poisons much more fast-acting (or alternatively introduce a delay, if you want to go for subtlety out of combat).

It also has spontaneous alchemy rules which might make such a build more viable.
Oh, and a feat to Craft Oozes (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/craft-ooze-item-creation&sa=U&ei=vyluU_3cDeSV7Aan-oDICw&ved=0CAUQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNGv-0vfNlKrIo3WdlWTVUoR_EM_rw) - arguably a very bad feat (since you can't control the oozes in any way, and as unintelligent creates you can't even bargain with them), but it would probably fit your theme quite well.

Master Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-alchemist) is obviously a mandatory feat, multiplying your crafting speed by a factor of about 400 or more.

Other than that - well, a Witch has the advantage of poison-spells over the Alchemist.
Pernicious Poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/pernicious-poison) debuffs all saves against poisons and poison-spells and thus makes for a good opener.
Then there are various spells with the poison-descriptor that are available to witches but not to alchemists.

[Gemini476]

Well, poisons (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison)are Craft (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/craft)(Alchemy). DC=Fortitude save DC. Natural one exposes you to the poison.
Crafting time is by the week, when you finish (check result*DC) sp of the item. You can add +10 to the DC to speed things up a bit, but it's very much a downtime skill.

Also, have you considered drugs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs)? Because drugs are pretty nasty in Pathfinder. No save ability damage, with the save just being for addiction.
You may want to reconsider making anything that deals Wisdom damage, however, just in case you critfail and get addicted to something that will put you in a coma in an average of two doses.

As for potions, make sure that you don't make them out of anything that you could make into a scroll (50% price) or wand (30%/charge) instead. So potions should be Personal effects, and things that need to be able to be used when you aren't conscious. Self-buffs. Or if they're too situational to be worth sticking on a wand.

I assume that you're taking Cauldron (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-cauldron-ex)as a Hex? +4 Insight to Craft(Alchemy) and Brew Potion seems right up your alley, not to mention that it qualifies you for Witch's Brew (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/major-hexes/hex-major-witchs-brew-ex)later on.

Speaking of Oozes, you are aware of the combo of Minor Creation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/minor-creation)(4th level spell for Witches) and Green Slime (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/traps-hazards-and-special-terrains/hazards/environmental-hazards/green-slime-cr-4), right? Good.

Finally, no Witch should leave home without Beguiling Gift (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beguiling-gift). It's great for both poisons and cursed items, although there are some really nasty (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs/powdered-mummy-skin)things you can do with it as well. (Don't do drugs, kids!)



What do you have so far, as far as build ideas go? What level are you building towards? Witches are fun to build. I like the Stay at Home Hexer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=480.msg2243#msg2243), m'self.

[Feint's End]

Ok I'm back but I can't really tell you anything more Serafina hasn't said (in fact I would have known less). You will be a bit feat starved but if you invest all your feats into it from level 1 you will become decent at poisoning pretty fast.

Probably pick traits which give you social skills or sleight of hand so you can use them easier out of combat / in social encounters. I assume your witch is evil alignment?

[avr]

For oozes, you want a feat (www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/craft-ooze-item-creation) to create them and another (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/coaxing-spell-metamagic) to control them.

It's not an ooze or poison exactly, but you'll get the vomit swarm spell, right?

[Amphetryon]

For oozes, you want a feat (www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/craft-ooze-item-creation) to create them and another (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/coaxing-spell-metamagic) to control them.

It's not an ooze or poison exactly, but you'll get the vomit swarm spell, right?

Indeed I shall/have. That reminds me, I should have specified the Character comes in at 5th Level, Lawful Evil but insane (follows a complicated code of conduct and OCD behaviors).


As for potions, make sure that you don't make them out of anything that you could make into a scroll (50% price) or wand (30%/charge) instead. So potions should be Personal effects, and things that need to be able to be used when you aren't conscious. Self-buffs. Or if they're too situational to be worth sticking on a wand.The DM has generously adjusted Potions to be in line with Scrolls for pricing, alleviating some of the cost problem. I'm looking at the Hedge Magician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/hedge-magician) Trait to further offset costs (without taking Hedge Witch if possible), along with the Potent Concoctions (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/potent-concoctions-ghlaunder) Trait to make the Poisons nastier.

ETA:
What do you have so far, as far as build ideas go? What level are you building towards? Witches are fun to build. I like the Stay at Home Hexer, m'self.
So far, I'm looking at the Tiefling variant that grants bonuses to DEX and INT and penalizes WIS (hence the 5 there): 5th level Stats after those adjustments and the 4th Level bump are STR 15 DEX 18 CON 14 INT 18 WIS 5 CHA 13. Yes, I know STR/CHA are the recommended dump Stats for Witch, rather than WIS, but concept won out over raw power here, and the dice weren't exactly unkind otherwise. Alternate Racial Traits are Scaled Skin (Cold) and Vestigial Wings. Greenskin Scorpion Familiar informs theme and grants the faux Improved Initiative, while also gaining Cold Resistance 5 from the Tiefling Witch Favored Class option.
HEXES: Cackle, Cauldron, Flight, Poison Steep, Misfortune.
FEATS: Extra Hex (for Cackle Misfortune), Brew Potion (from Cauldron Hex), Craft Wondrous Item, Master Alchemist.
SKILLS (maxed): Craft (Alchemy), Fly, K(History), K(The Planes), Spellcraft, UMD.
SPELLS (Portents Patron): Detect Poison, Message, Putrefy Food/Drink, Stabilize; Beguiling Gift, Ear-Piercing Scream, Unprepared Combatant; False Life, Pernicious Poison, Vomit Swarm, Ill Omen; Eruptive Pustules, Vision of Hell.

Edited because my posts to follow were apparently not providing sufficient clarity.

[Gemini476]

Poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/poison)apples, huh? That could work, I suppose. Personally I would go for more mundane poisons, but eh. Or drugs. Some of those drugs are both very cheap and very nasty. Again, 6.67gp for a dose of Mummy Rot.
However, why exactly do you have Cackle? It's a great hex, yes, but you don't have any of the hexes it works on!

Effect: A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.

[Amphetryon]

Poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/poison)apples, huh? That could work, I suppose. Personally I would go for more mundane poisons, but eh. Or drugs. Some of those drugs are both very cheap and very nasty. Again, 6.67gp for a dose of Mummy Rot.
However, why exactly do you have Cackle? It's a great hex, yes, but you don't have any of the hexes it works on!

1. Because it fit the concept of a crazy Witch.
2. Because I might want to pick up a complementary Hex.
3. Because it's still in the rough draft stages. :smallbiggrin:

[Kurald Galain]

You have Cackle, but you don't have any hex that's affected by Cackle...

[Amphetryon]

You have Cackle, but you don't have any hex that's affected by Cackle...

See the two posts immediately preceding yours for more on this fact. Thank you for making sure that I got that particular message, though.

[Serafina]

You don't need the Cackle-Hex to cackle maniacally - you just won't get any mechanical benefits from doing so without it, but then again neither will you without any Hexes affected by it. So wait picking it until you get an actual advantage out of it.

[Amphetryon]

You don't need the Cackle-Hex to cackle maniacally - you just won't get any mechanical benefits from doing so without it, but then again neither will you without any Hexes affected by it. So wait picking it until you get an actual advantage out of it.

Perhaps the third time will be the charm: That listing was a rough draft. I have acknowledged that it needs to be revised. Additional reminders of something which I have already acknowledged are not necessary at this juncture, thank you.

[Barstro]

To give more of a spin on the Cackle issue; I'm not sure you need the Flight hex. I took it for my witch, and used it a bit out of combat, but wasn't all that effective. It lasts one minute per level, but requires a standard action to activate. That means the Witch is doing only 66-75% as much during a typical combat by using up an action to activate it. Better off, IMHO, taking Evil Eye. It makes a Witch useful in combat, gives a reason for Cackle, and makes your poisons harder to resist.

[Amphetryon]

To give more of a spin on the Cackle issue; I'm not sure you need the Flight hex. I took it for my witch, and used it a bit out of combat, but wasn't all that effective. It lasts one minute per level, but requires a standard action to activate. That means the Witch is doing only 66-75% as much during a typical combat by using up an action to activate it. Better off, IMHO, taking Evil Eye. It makes a Witch useful in combat, gives a reason for Cackle, and makes your poisons harder to resist.

That's. . . remarkable.

Please see the edit of the originally proposed Character. As I have said repeatedly, Cackle was an error in the rough draft. I have now amended it, rather than simply stating that I needed to do so.