Racial Skills

[Ruethgar]

Anyone have the racial skill list for the core races? I am pretty sure they had them in the 3.0 MM but I can't find mine nor a scan of the MM anywhere.

[Khedrac]

If by "core races" you mean races like "elf", "human", "dwarf", "orc" etc. then these races do not have racial hit dice, and racial skills only apply to racial hit dice = no race skills.

[Yanisa]

Also there is no such thing as "Racial Skills" in 3.0/3.5 (there is in pathfinder, sorta). Creatures treat all skills in their stat block as class skills, unless they have actually class levels. If you mean how many skills point they get based on Hit Die, those can be found here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/improvingMonsters.html) for 3.5.

[OldTrees1]

Skills
This line gives the creature’s skills, along with each skill’s modifier
(including adjustments for ability scores, armor check penalties,
and any bonuses from feats or racial traits). All listed skills are
class skills, unless the creature has a character class (noted in the
entry). A creature’s type and Intelligence score determine the
number of skill points it has.

But the core races do not have RHD in their monster stat blocks. (and human, half elf, and half orc don't get stat blocks)

[Ruethgar]

I was fairly certain the 3.0 core races did have RHD in the MM of 1/2D8 by default with the added stat block of a warrior of that race with 1 class HD and it was only in 3.5 that they changed them to all be warriors but I can't find the 3.0 MM to see if they changed the skills listed for the RHD versions of the races that would determine their humanoid class skills.

[Yanisa]

I blew some ancient dust of the 3.0 MM lying around here but it seems similar. It has the following lines: "All listed skills were purchased as class skills unless the creature has a character class." and "Treat any skill not mentioned in the creatures entry as a cross-class skill points." So I guess that is the same as in 3.0 (my knowledge is limited though). The way you get skill points is wonky and less streamlined, but that not majorly different.

Are you sure you aren't thinking Pathfinder? Because in Pathfinder each monster type has a set of "class" skills. (Although core races still don't benefit from it do the lack of RHD.)

Edit: All core races have the following line: "Most [race] encountered outside their are home are warriors; the information in the statistics block is for one of 1st level." so they get class skills like a warrior. No hint of RHD as far as I see.

[Ruethgar]

Eh, not a normal core race but Kobolds are the only one I remember absolutely having RHD, was a little less sure about the elves/dwarves/gnomes/halflings. At any rate, thank you all for your input. I'll just use the skills listed and count them as class for RHD.

[Gildedragon]

If the race has only 1HD it gets replaced when they take a class level

[Curmudgeon]

If the race has only 1HD it gets replaced when they take a class level
True for Humanoids as a feature of the type, as well as Pixes (Fey) and Warforged (Constructs) as a feature of those individual races. Not a feature of other types of creatures.

[Yanisa]

Taking some non core races:

Goblins and Hobglins have the warrior class skills...

Gnolls are humanoids and have 2 HD but its hard to gauge whether that is racial or from class levels. tTey do only have 1 BaB, which doesn't man they have warrior levels. (+3 on attacks, 15str) and their listed skills are Spot and Listen.

Kobolds indeed have 1/2 1d8 and no signs of warrior class levels. (0 BaB, good will). But they have full list of skills, Craft, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot. Unlike the Gnolls.

Like I said before my 3.0 knowledge is limited, but it seems inconsistent and there are no clues for general class skills gained from race. Same as in 3.5 it seems, it differs from creature to creature.

[OldTrees1]

Taking some non core races:

Gnolls are humanoids and have 2 HD but its hard to gauge whether that is racial or from class levels. tTey do only have 1 BaB, which doesn't man they have warrior levels. (+3 on attacks, 15str) and their listed skills are Spot and Listen.


Racial Hit Dice: A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0.
Racial Skills: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Listen and Spot.

Those are RHD with 2 class skills

[Ruethgar]

As to the humanoid's racial HD getting replaced, indeed that is the case for 1 or below but also only after it has taken class levels. There are templates that add RHD and do not change type, mostly third party, but still there which would need the racial skills of say a halfling. There is also the creation of life, hard to do in WotC, but there is a third party 9th level spell in an obscure domain for clerics to do it. If you make a young adult elf it will have no class and just have whatever RHD it is supposed to have with the racial skills. It will all get replaced in 1000 exp, but still relevant until then.

And thank you Yanisa for those. Definitely going to save them until I can find which box my books are in.

[TuggyNE]

True for Humanoids as a feature of the type, as well as Pixes (Fey) and Warforged (Constructs) as a feature of those individual races. Not a feature of other types of creatures.

For completeness' sake, it seems that all relevant creatures are governed by more general rules, of which the Humanoid, pixie, and warforged special cases are merely restatements (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?327285-3-5-On-the-RAW-basis-for-dropping-the-first-and-only-RHD-of-non-humanoids). (Any further evidence on one side or another would be best directed to PMs, so I can start another thread if needed.)

[Yanisa]

Those are RHD with 2 class skills

is that line is the books? I must have read over it then. Also 5 × (2 + Int modifier)? The table at the beginning state something vague like 6 + Int + 1/EHD. Both cases don't explain why Gnolls only have 6 points though.

As to the humanoid's racial HD getting replaced.


As to the humanoid's racial HD getting replaced, indeed that is the case for 1 or below but also only after it has taken class levels. There are templates that add RHD and do not change type, mostly third party, but still there which would need the racial skills of say a halfling. There is also the creation of life, hard to do in WotC, but there is a third party 9th level spell in an obscure domain for clerics to do it. If you make a young adult elf it will have no class and just have whatever RHD it is supposed to have with the racial skills. It will all get replaced in 1000 exp, but still relevant until then.

And thank you Yanisa for those. Definitely going to save them until I can find which box my books are in.

I still think you should import this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Humanoid) to your games:

The following are class skills for humanoids without a character class: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Profession, Ride, and Survival. Humanoids with both a character class and racial HD add these skills to their list of class skills.

[OldTrees1]

is that line is the books? I must have read over it then. Also 5 × (2 + Int modifier)? The table at the beginning state something vague like 6 + Int + 1/EHD. Both cases don't explain why Gnolls only have 6 points though.

Yep it is the end of the Gnoll section in the Monster Manual. You can also find it in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnoll.htm)

5 x (2 + Int modifier) = (Hit Dice + 3) x (2 + Int modifier) = (2 + Int modifier) x4 at first HD + (2 + Int modifier) at second HD

The sample gnoll (Int modifier = -1) would have 5 x (2 - 1) = 5 skill points which matches their 2 ranks in Listen and 3 ranks in Spot.

[Yanisa]

Yep it is the end of the Gnoll section in the Monster Manual. You can also find it in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnoll.htm)

5 x (2 + Int modifier) = (Hit Dice + 3) x (2 + Int modifier) = (2 + Int modifier) x4 at first HD + (2 + Int modifier) at second HD

The sample gnoll (Int modifier = -1) would have 5 x (2 - 1) = 5 skill points which matches their 2 ranks in Listen and 3 ranks in Spot.

You do know I was quoting the 3.0 MM, from the request of the orginal poster. :smalltongue:

The same basics apply still, but the 3.0 Gnoll had +3 Spot +3 Listen and according the weird table it had 7 skill points, but maybe they had a int penalty like the 3.5 counterpart. Not in reach of the dusty old 3.0 monster manuel atm to double check.

[OldTrees1]

You do know I was quoting the 3.0 MM, from the request of the orginal poster. :smalltongue:

The same basics apply still, but the 3.0 Gnoll had +3 Spot +3 Listen and according the weird table it had 7 skill points, but maybe they had a int penalty like the 3.5 counterpart. Not in reach of the dusty old 3.0 monster manuel atm to double check.

Oh 3.0 was weird.
Humanoids got 6 + Int + 1/EHD
EHD = HD - 2^(size categories above medium) or HD - 1 for our medium sized gnoll.
Int modifier of -1, EHD of 1 (2RHD - 1[medium sized])
6 - 1 + 1 = 6 (3 ranks in Listen and 3 ranks in Spot)

It still has the "mentioned skills are class skills and unmentioned skills are cross class skills" rule.

[TuggyNE]

Oh 3.0 was weird.
Humanoids got 6 + Int + 1/EHD
EHD = HD - 2^(size categories above medium) or HD - 1 for our medium sized gnoll.

I ... what? What is this nonsense? How?

OK yeah I'm just going to back away slowly from 3.0 now. :smalleek:

[137beth]

You might be thinking of 4e, where most races had associated skills (I think, it's been awhile).

[137beth]

I ... what? What is this nonsense? How?

OK yeah I'm just going to back away slowly from 3.0 now. :smalleek:

Unfortunately for you, 3.0 can double move and attack you in the same round due to HASTE!
Or triple move! You cannot escape from 3.0 with your measly 3.5 speed!