Warlock Optimization help

[AlaynaZebra]

Hello people i was hoping i could get some help optimizing my warlock its at 11th level almsot bout to ding to 12th

Human-Warlock
Lvl 11
Feats:
Mortalbane
Extra Invocation
Sudden Still
battlecaster
weapon focus (ray)
improved critical (eldritch blast)

Stats:
STR:16
dex:15
con:16
int:18
wis:18
CHA:20 (+2 cuz of cloak read below)

HP:73


Invocations:
Baleful utterance
eldritch glaive
devils sight
walk unseen
Flee the scene
vitriolic blast
edlritch line
eldritch chain
see the unseen

items:
Ring of sustenance
Cloak of CHA
breastplate+2
crossbow light +2
bracers of entangling blast

Current char in a ongoing campighn just got done slogging through a massive dungeon full of golems and constructs left me feeling meh and underpowered so just wanna optimize it a tad and was hoping for help from the wonderful community of order of the stick :D

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Mmmkay... Warlocks. One of my favorite classes. However, there may need to be some rather extreme changes to undertake, depending on what you want to do.

First off, if you want to be Mr. Magic Mart, you're darn near there. Being that you are actually Human, you've got a VERY good dip in Chameleon available to you that you qualify for. Two levels dip nets you a 'floating feat' that you can change up on the fly. So you can switch it to, for example, Extra Invocation and get yet another lower level invocation. Or, if you want to make a magic sword, switch it to Craft Magic Arms And Armor. Pretty useful when combined with your Warlock12 level.

Then there's the Mindsight dip. Basically, take a level in Mindbender for the 100' telepathy. Then pick up the feat Mindsight. It's pretty much a radar that lets you know if anything hostile shows up within 100' of you as long as it isn't mindless. It's a good way to completely negate the chance of ambush for the party.

Other than that, it will depend on the invocations you have chosen and what sorts of enemies you expect to face.

Vitriolic Blast is good for negating SR and dealing Acid damage. Works on most things that aren't immune to (or heal from) acid. Also, Eldritch Glaive is a pretty good invocation for multiple attacks.

[AlaynaZebra]

Mmmkay... Warlocks. One of my favorite classes. However, there may need to be some rather extreme changes to undertake, depending on what you want to do.

First off, if you want to be Mr. Magic Mart, you're darn near there. Being that you are actually Human, you've got a VERY good dip in Chameleon available to you that you qualify for. Two levels dip nets you a 'floating feat' that you can change up on the fly. So you can switch it to, for example, Extra Invocation and get yet another lower level invocation. Or, if you want to make a magic sword, switch it to Craft Magic Arms And Armor. Pretty useful when combined with your Warlock12 level.

Then there's the Mindsight dip. Basically, take a level in Mindbender for the 100' telepathy. Then pick up the feat Mindsight. It's pretty much a radar that lets you know if anything hostile shows up within 100' of you as long as it isn't mindless. It's a good way to completely negate the chance of ambush for the party.

Other than that, it will depend on the invocations you have chosen and what sorts of enemies you expect to face.

Vitriolic Blast is good for negating SR and dealing Acid damage. Works on most things that aren't immune to (or heal from) acid. Also, Eldritch Glaive is a pretty good invocation for multiple attacks

I already have vitriolic and glaive i was going for the "Blaster" warlock from all the builds and **** ive read its the second best router besides hellfire melee lock so i was trying to focus on getting a high to hit and do as much damage as possible i might be able to buy a chausible of fell power or a warlock amulet today after this session which would give me a new greater invocation or +2d6 dmg onto my blast if i get the amulet i am going to get ennervating shadow so i get +2 to hit from total concealment
otherwise i understand all what your saying what does the "floating" do for me as a warlock though becuase by my DMs rule the flyby attack and fell flight dont work together at all and such so i just wanna make sure this is a solid thing for a dip and not something the DM can rule against

[Warlocknthewind]

Invocations:
Baleful utterance

just got done slogging through a massive dungeon full of golems and constructs left me feeling meh and underpowered so just wanna optimize it a tad and was hoping for help from the wonderful community of order of the stick :D

You don't need optimization, you observation.

[arkangel111]

no idea why fell flight and flyby wouldn't work by RAW or RAI but DM has final say. Also whats your logic for that sudden still feat? I think its a waste personally and would probably switch it out for an extra invocation (dead walk or voracious dispelling), infernal adept for DFA list of invocations, or the able learner feat that you'll need for the chameleon dip. Plus you're stacked up with BOTH see the unseen and devils sight, of which the former is the only one you'll really need, if you're that worried about magical darkness grab a scroll for super cheap. I'd swap it for dark one's own luck since you have a nice cha bonus. And lastly I'd swap your eldritch line for chilling tentacles, i mean really, when would you ever use it when you already have both a glaive shape and chain shape? If you like the idea of it, its so situational i'd spring for the rod of eldritch power if you really want it.

if you end up keeping the sudden still then I gotta say that battle caster is kinda pointless since your biggest worry with heavier armor is the ASF which only applies if you have somatic parts of your spells, so they are kinda redundant, but I could be wrong.

[AlaynaZebra]

You don't need optimization, you observation.

you can shatter golems and constructs? the DM said i couldnt

[AlaynaZebra]

no idea why fell flight and flyby wouldn't work by RAW or RAI but DM has final say. Also whats your logic for that sudden still feat? I think its a waste personally and would probably switch it out for an extra invocation (dead walk or voracious dispelling), infernal adept for DFA list of invocations, or the able learner feat that you'll need for the chameleon dip. Plus you're stacked up with BOTH see the unseen and devils sight, of which the former is the only one you'll really need, if you're that worried about magical darkness grab a scroll for super cheap. I'd swap it for dark one's own luck since you have a nice cha bonus. And lastly I'd swap your eldritch line for chilling tentacles, i mean really, when would you ever use it when you already have both a glaive shape and chain shape? If you like the idea of it, its so situational i'd spring for the rod of eldritch power if you really want it.

if you end up keeping the sudden still then I gotta say that battle caster is kinda pointless since your biggest worry with heavier armor is the ASF which only applies if you have somatic parts of your spells, so they are kinda redundant, but I could be wrong.

1:sudden still is for my flee the scene in case im grappled or tied up or captured or some **** (situational)

2:I have devils sight for magical darkness becuase we have two true dragons in the party that use some sort of orb thing that blankets the area in magical darkness and i got the other to see invisibility (situational upon the campighn)

3: ill admit ive never even used the glaive its another situational thing in case were caught in melee and battle caster is cuz the **** being thrown at us has high damage and to hits so the extra AC is nice and at some point going to buy mithral full plate for the extra AC and not worry abotu spell failure cuz of battle caster knocking it down to medium armor cuz of mithral. eldritch line was becuase the dungeon we fought in was nothing but hallways and rooms so i used line to clear out enemies we would choke into the hallways easy kills. (Situational for campighn specific part) and ill look up the rod but the DM is being an absolute ******* and saying i cant find any warlock items in any of the magic shops anywhere we go. so the rod is quite an issue becuase warlock specific items are not very common i guess.

[Warlocknthewind]

D6/caster level, standard action. It's the go to spell for lower level contruct combat.. And lock picking, and mining, architecture, distracting noises, shattering Alchemists Fire in an enemy's hand, manacle breaking.. it's just about the best invocation on their list, when you think of versimilitude.

[AlaynaZebra]

D6/caster level, standard action. It's the go to spell for lower level contruct combat.. And lock picking, and mining, architecture, distracting noises, shattering Alchemists Fire in an enemy's hand, manacle breaking.. it's just about the best invocation on their list, when you think of versimilitude.

we were facing platinum horrors gold horrors and shadesteel golems along with a runic guardian thingwrights and then in the end a massive adamantine serpent golem. so they werent low level at all and the DM said shatter wouldnt work on them

[Warlocknthewind]

Tut tut! He should read the shatter spell

[Ruethgar]

Major Fey/Demon/Devil Bloodline Hellfire Warlock 3 Shape Soulmeld Strongheart Vest, delight in the optimized blastlock. Of course if the DM is going by what he wants more than the rules(shatter and constructs) then a Binder dip may be needed instead of Shape Soulmeld.

[Kane0]

Dont forget you can UMD better than most, so grabbing some wands and scrolls of things like see invisibility can free up invocation slots for things that you cant do via consumables.

You can also trade away weapon focus (ray) and battle caster for extra invocation feats and look for a mithral chain shirt.

If you take those two levels in chameleon you can craft your own gear, so the shortage of warlock specific equipment in shops wont be an issue anymore.

Edit: vitriolic blast sounds like a must for bypassing SR, which sounds like it could be appearing very soon.

[AlaynaZebra]

Dont forget you can UMD better than most, so grabbing some wands and scrolls of things like see invisibility can free up invocation slots for things that you cant do via consumables.

You can also trade away weapon focus (ray) and battle caster for extra invocation feats and look for a mithral chain shirt.

If you take those two levels in chameleon you can craft your own gear, so the shortage of warlock specific equipment in shops wont be an issue anymore.

Edit: vitriolic blast sounds like a must for bypassing SR, which sounds like it could be appearing very soon.

1:ok ill do the wands and scrolls stuff and wouldnt extra invocations only get me two lessers? and not two greats?

2:looked at chameleon the ability to swap the feat everyday would let me craft my own armor cuz of the imbue item thing at level 12 i can get but the main party leader just got a artificer cohort so should i still worry about crafting?

3: and every golem and construct we fought had SR my vitriolic was able to bypass 85% of them all except the shadesteel which had complete magic immunity and i had to sit back taking pot shots with my tiny crossbow pea shooter and doing no damage becuase i kept missing so i had to have my thumb up my ass the whole fight

[AlaynaZebra]

Tut tut! He should read the shatter spell

apprently all the constructs were magical cosntructs thats why we couldnt shatter then cuz you cant shatter magical weapons/constructs

[Bloodgruve]

If you have a wizard or archivist in the group with creation feats it may be better for you to take Scribe Scroll to give them anything they need spell wise. Could be good for you also to stock up on utility.

I'm currently running a lower level Clawlock and it's super fun so far.


So Shatter... I could be wrong here but there is no type or sub type 'Crystal' or 'Crystalline' that I've found.

Solids are either Crystalline or Amorphous.

Examples of Crystalline solids are;
*almost all metals and their alloys, such as gold, brass, steel
*diamond, amethyst, ruby
*solid krypton or solid argon.
*water ice
*70% of bone is a crystalline solid...

On the other hand Amorphous solids may be soft and rubbery when they are formed by long molecules, tangled together and held by intermolecular forces. Glassy solids are hard and brittle, formed by atoms irregularly joined by covalent bonds...

Now RL physics does not equal DnD reality but Shatter could potentially effect a lot of things.

IDK ;)

Blood~

[Kane0]

1:ok ill do the wands and scrolls stuff and wouldnt extra invocations only get me two lessers? and not two greats?

The lessers have most of the warlock classics. Fell Flight, The Dead Walk, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene, Eldritch Chain, Charm, Brimstone/Hellrime Blast for HFW, even Relentless Dispelling and Curse of Despair (depending on how creative you can be) are all solid choices.



2:looked at chameleon the ability to swap the feat everyday would let me craft my own armor cuz of the imbue item thing at level 12 i can get but the main party leader just got a artificer cohort so should i still worry about crafting?

You will be two levels ahead of the cohort and you can always use that feat for something else when not crafting (like on extra invocation for a new invoc each day), but on the other hand you can use imbue item to aid his crafting by replicating spells and leaving the feats and materials to him. Its up to you. If you forego Chameleon, you can focus on getting into Hellfire Warlock with a level in Binder (or Incarnate, depending on dm?) to mitigate Hellfire Blast.



3: and every golem and construct we fought had SR my vitriolic was able to bypass 85% of them all except the shadesteel which had complete magic immunity and I had to sit back taking pot shots with my tiny crossbow pea shooter and doing no damage becuase i kept missing so i had to have my thumb up my ass the whole fight

It happens, no fault of your own. You may want to invest in some consumables that you can use to buff or heal your party, so you still have some way to contribute against magic immune opponents.

[AlaynaZebra]

If you have a wizard or archivist in the group with creation feats it may be better for you to take Scribe Scroll to give them anything they need spell wise. Could be good for you also to stock up on utility.

I'm currently running a lower level Clawlock and it's super fun so far.


So Shatter... I could be wrong here but there is no type or sub type 'Crystal' or 'Crystalline' that I've found.

Solids are either Crystalline or Amorphous.

Examples of Crystalline solids are;
*almost all metals and their alloys, such as gold, brass, steel
*diamond, amethyst, ruby
*solid krypton or solid argon.
*water ice
*70% of bone is a crystalline solid...

On the other hand Amorphous solids may be soft and rubbery when they are formed by long molecules, tangled together and held by intermolecular forces. Glassy solids are hard and brittle, formed by atoms irregularly joined by covalent bonds...

Now RL physics does not equal DnD reality but Shatter could potentially effect a lot of things.

IDK ;)

Blood~

See thats what i was thinking as well taking scribe scroll and buying a bunch of blank scrolls so i can jsut make my own cure light wound scrolls and all that **** and buff myself or heal myself and help the party's melee combatants

[AlaynaZebra]

The lessers have most of the warlock classics. Fell Flight, The Dead Walk, Walk Unseen, Flee the Scene, Eldritch Chain, Charm, Brimstone/Hellrime Blast for HFW, even Relentless Dispelling and Curse of Despair (depending on how creative you can be) are all solid choices.


You will be two levels ahead of the cohort and you can always use that feat for something else when not crafting (like on extra invocation for a new invoc each day), but on the other hand you can use imbue item to aid his crafting by replicating spells and leaving the feats and materials to him. Its up to you. If you forego Chameleon, you can focus on getting into Hellfire Warlock with a level in Binder (or Incarnate, depending on dm?) to mitigate Hellfire Blast.


It happens, no fault of your own. You may want to invest in some consumables that you can use to buff or heal your party, so you still have some way to contribute against magic immune opponents.

1: ok i can probably do it but id have to rework my char entirley to remove the two feats you suggested earlier for the two invocation feats such as sell my breastplate +2 that i on for leather armor +2 and such

2:should i take chameleon at level 13 then after i get imbue item at level 12 warlock? and hellfire warlock seems fun and it sure as **** ups my blast damage i may go that instead becuase of the pure power that would allow me to have in battle. As it is my party says im OP and do more damage then them but our fullblade fighter can hit for almsot 50 damage a single swing and our archer with his arrows can easily do over 60-70 so im trying to fill a niche roll our party kinda needs ranged spellcasting otherwise we have two true dragons in the party one wizard pathed the other necromancer pathed sing some true dragon build for class/race they found online

3:what type of consumables? can you offer up some ideas or links? im fairly new to dnd 3.5 i jsust started playing maybe...two months ago now? so im not entirley up to snuff...my first char was a dragonborn paladin who got eaten by one of the true dragons cuz of her preachy ways x..x........i really had no idea how to not be "lawful stupid" as they called it but worshipping bahamut seemed cool and dragonborn were a draconic race (love dragons) so it seemed to fit and iw as gunan be the party tank but we didnt even need the tank at all so i was just a weak melee fighter who could buff my AC to well over 35 if i needed to until i got eaten.....****ing true dragon *******s there both shadow dragons

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I already have vitriolic and glaive i was going for the "Blaster" warlock from all the builds and **** ive read its the second best router besides hellfire melee lock so i was trying to focus on getting a high to hit and do as much damage as possible i might be able to buy a chausible of fell power or a warlock amulet today after this session which would give me a new greater invocation or +2d6 dmg onto my blast if i get the amulet i am going to get ennervating shadow so i get +2 to hit from total concealment
otherwise i understand all what your saying what does the "floating" do for me as a warlock though becuase by my DMs rule the flyby attack and fell flight dont work together at all and such so i just wanna make sure this is a solid thing for a dip and not something the DM can rule against

The advantage to the floating feat is that it is literally any feat you qualify for that you feel like taking for the day. Have a hankering to make some scrolls? Bam, Scribe Scroll. Want to make a Ring of Protection? Fine, now it's Forge Ring. Combined with your Warlock12 level ability, it lets you pretty much make almost any item that doesn't require an additional feat to create beyond the item creation feat. And then when you go back out adventuring, it can be 'Extra Invocation', for yet another invocation of your choosing.

You're a few levels too late to really enjoy Hellfire Warlock shenanigans. Do keep in mind that some GMs frown on the Strongheart Vest option for negating the con damage because it negates the damage and thus the ability. You may have to do something like take a dip in Binder for Nabereous for the con regen. If your group permits Weapon of Legacy, you can use Legacy Champion to advance Hellfire Warlock, and get more d6's on top of everything else.

[AlaynaZebra]

The advantage to the floating feat is that it is literally any feat you qualify for that you feel like taking for the day. Have a hankering to make some scrolls? Bam, Scribe Scroll. Want to make a Ring of Protection? Fine, now it's Forge Ring. Combined with your Warlock12 level ability, it lets you pretty much make almost any item that doesn't require an additional feat to create beyond the item creation feat. And then when you go back out adventuring, it can be 'Extra Invocation', for yet another invocation of your choosing.

You're a few levels too late to really enjoy Hellfire Warlock shenanigans. Do keep in mind that some GMs frown on the Strongheart Vest option for negating the con damage because it negates the damage and thus the ability. You may have to do something like take a dip in Binder for Nabereous for the con regen. If your group permits Weapon of Legacy, you can use Legacy Champion to advance Hellfire Warlock, and get more d6's on top of everything else.

was looking at chameleon and yeah i may take it at level 13 and 14 then go back to warlock at 15 for the floating feat because i need the imbue item from warlock 12