Feats and spells for lvl 4 cleric

[Balor01]

I am eventually joining an already ongoing campaign and I will be taking over a now-NPC Cleric. I can rebuild him as I want with exception of him staying cleric and human and servant of Heironeus.

Now, I have studied Cleric handbooks and stuff and it seems they are all rather oriented toward higher-level goals. I need something that works at lvl 4.

I am building a cleric of Heronious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heironeous)(this is also a must), meaning I have at my disposal Glory, Good, Inquisition, Law and War domain.

I intended to go with Good (because Protection from evil) and War (Longsword, has crit 19-20).

Now party already has a cleric that is a rather ok healer/buffer/debuffer. I would not mind adding my strenghts to his own, but party does sort of lack a melee fighter. Due to war domain I was thinking along this direction.

Now, feats. At lvl 4 I have 3 feats. Nice. But Cleric handbooks all speak of DMM+metamagic. Which is great. I could take DMM, Extend spell and Extra turning so I could really extend some spells for me and party. But ... which ones. At lvl 4 things last rounds and minutes. I can not even cast an equivalent of Mage armor on me/party(that would last say, 4 hours). I always get into battle spell-naked.(except when prior scouting is performed, etc etc).

In a slow and action-consuming process I can heal them (Cure X Wounds), buff them with abysmall boons (Bless), dont really have a melee fighter to give him Bulls strenght, etc ..

I just do not know how to build this at this point.

Please advise me on "melee cleric" and "general healer/buffer".

And keep in mind: This is level four. We will not level up for ages. (even if additional feat suggestion beyond this one is appreciated).

[JeminiZero]

Would you be able to use one of the human subraces (like say, Illumian). Or for that matter, templates? For anybody walking around in heavy armor, I like the Amphibious template from Stormwrack. -2 Dex for water breathing and swim speed. If you're in heavy armor, you can *probably* take the Dex hit, and it removes one of the biggest disadvantages of heavy armor (i.e. you sink like a stone).

Also, can you choose your gear? Loading up on Nightsticks might let you use DMM Persist now. Given how you don''t have any hrs/level spells to extend for the whole day anyway, a single DMM persist might work better than several extends. E.g. Persist Interfaith Blessing the whole day (which helps get around the 1 round casting time), and then add on Bless at the start of fights.

For Clerics, I like the Divine Restoration ACF from Dungeonscape. Basically, lose ability from 1 domain, for the ability to spontaneously cast the restoration line line of spells.

[Isil]

I can not even cast an equivalent of Mage armor on me/party(that would last say, 4 hours).

Actually, you can. Check out the spell Luminous Armor from Book of Exalted Deeds. As a Cleric, you can even cast it spontaneously - no need to prepare it.

[Balor01]

Would you be able to use one of the human subraces (like say, Illumian).
no.


Or for that matter, templates?

no.


Also, can you choose your gear?

Yes.


Loading up on Nightsticks might let you use DMM Persist now.

It might. So I buy one for 7.500 gp and am left with 500 gp at level four?



Given how you don''t have any hrs/level spells to extend for the whole day anyway, a single DMM persist might work better than several extends. E.g. Persist Interfaith Blessing the whole day (which helps get around the 1 round casting time), and then add on Bless at the start of fights.


So i sacrifice all my feats (DMM, Extend, persist) for the fact party gets say, +2 to AC for entire day? All three feats? You sure that is a good idea?


Actually, you can. Check out the spell Luminous Armor from Book of Exalted Deeds. As a Cleric, you can even cast it spontaneously - no need to prepare it.
nice.

[JeminiZero]

It might. So I buy one for 7.500 gp and am left with 500 gp at level four?
Look up the Reliquary Holy Symbol [MiC]. Grants you up to 3 turn attempts (although you can only use 2 with the setup below) for 1000 gp. Add on Cha 14, and that is enough for 1 DMM persist.


So i sacrifice all my feats (DMM, Extend, persist) for the fact party gets say, +2 to AC for entire day? All three feats? You sure that is a good idea?
Well, it doesn't exactly sound like a great idea. But it is still better than the alternative (taking DMM Extend, which will NOT see use, since with or without it, most spells will last the fight, but not the whole day). Better to have 3 feats that see SOME use, then 3 feats that have NO use.

And at the start of the next level, you can immediately apply it to DMM persist Mass Lesser Vigor.

[Vizzerdrix]

It might. So I buy one for 7.500 gp and am left with 500 gp at level four?


That would be enough to either buy 5 jars of shapesand or to craft 16~ish jars yourself. Either one is enough to take care of your equipment needs for the short term.



So i sacrifice all my feats (DMM, Extend, persist) for the fact party gets say, +2 to AC for entire day? All three feats? You sure that is a good idea?


No, you invest your feats in the ability to fire and forget the choicest of buffs. Lesser Vigor all day every day. Divine Power and Righteous Might. Endure Elements!!! You get to Dress your party for success in the morning and not have to worry about it.

[Balor01]

Look up the Reliquary Holy Symbol [MiC]. Grants you up to 3 turn attempts (although you can only use 2 with the setup below) for 1000 gp. Add on Cha 14, and that is enough for 1 DMM persist.


Well, it doesn't exactly sound like a great idea. But it is still better than the alternative (taking DMM Extend, which will NOT see use, since with or without it, most spells will last the fight, but not the whole day). Better to have 3 feats that see SOME use, then 3 feats that have NO use.

And at the start of the next level, you can immediately apply it to DMM persist Mass Lesser Vigor.

Ok, if i go this way, what would be a next feat then, beyond these three?

[JeminiZero]

Ok, if i go this way, what would be a next feat then, beyond these three?
That hinges on 1 very important question: Can you stack Nightsticks (and/or are Nightsticks reasonably available)? If the answer is 'no', then probably Extra Turning.

If the answer is 'yes', then you can pretty much ignore extra turning and invest large portions of your WBL in Nightsticks. In which case your next feat is pretty much up to you. Maybe Power Attack on L6 in preparation for DMM Persist Divine Power on level 7. Or else, you might want to grab a PrC, and should take feats for that.

[Urpriest]

DMM Persist is one of the more powerful things for a melee Cleric to do...but it does only really start to take off at 5th (and moreso 7th) level. 5th gives you Mass Lesser Vigor and Ice Axe, 7th gives you Divine Power. So it depends on how long you want to wait.

If you forego DMM Persist, it's still possible to end up as a badass melee Cleric. Ordained Champion from Complete Champion represents one (Heironeous-themed) route to take at higher levels.

[Balor01]

That hinges on 1 very important question: Can you stack Nightsticks (and/or are Nightsticks reasonably available)? If the answer is 'no', then probably Extra Turning.

No, I can not.


If the answer is 'yes', then you can pretty much ignore extra turning and invest large portions of your WBL in Nightsticks. In which case your next feat is pretty much up to you. Maybe Power Attack on L6 in preparation for DMM Persist Divine Power on level 7. Or else, you might want to grab a PrC, and should take feats for that.

So ... even if I can stack ... I should buy items that cost 7,5 k each and are CONSUMED each time they boost casting attempt? At a level where my starting gold is 8k(5.000 by DMG)? or at lvl 5(edited) where predicted gold is 9k or at lvl 6 with 13k. Even at level 6 with predicted loot drop, I can buy one nightstick. One.

[JeminiZero]

So ... even if I can stack ... I should buy items that cost 7,5 k each and are CONSUMED each time they boost casting attempt? At a level where my starting gold is 8k(5.000 by DMG)? or at lvl 9 where predicted gold is 9k or at lvl 6 with 13k. Even at level 6 with predicted loot drop, I can buy one nightstick. One.
A fair point. You might want Extra Turning anyway in that case.

[Vizzerdrix]

I should buy items that cost 7,5 k each and are CONSUMED each time they boost casting attempt?

I'm rather sure they aren't consumed.

[Urpriest]

No, I can not.


So ... even if I can stack ... I should buy items that cost 7,5 k each and are CONSUMED each time they boost casting attempt? At a level where my starting gold is 8k(5.000 by DMG)? or at lvl 5(edited) where predicted gold is 9k or at lvl 6 with 13k. Even at level 6 with predicted loot drop, I can buy one nightstick. One.

They're not CONSUMED, you can use them the following day.

That said, they're way too expensive to rely on at this level, yes.

Basically, at this level without losing caster levels to dips you're looking at one or two spells Persisted. That can still be handy for melee: Ice Axe for touch attacks all day once you hit 5th, or Divine Power at 7th. You'll have to run the numbers and see how much Cha you can afford, and thus whether you can do one or two Persisted spells.

Without special tricks, at this level you're pretty much equal with everyone else in melee. You're more MAD, but you've got heavy armor and a two-hand-able weapon, and you've still got only one less BAB than the party Fighter. At this low level you're not a melee powerhouse, but you are a character who can do fine in melee (because so little is required at this point) and also cast Obscuring Mist for defense or Augury for utility.

At this level, Bull's Strength is a handy buff for yourself, even if it isn't great for the rest of the party. You're not going to have a +4 belt at this level, and 4 minutes is enough to last through half a dungeon if you go fast. Bear's Endurance fits in a similar place, and Eagle's Splendor can fill in a few turn attempts if you still want to try to make DMM work.

Shield Other has quite a long duration, and allows you to actually "tank" more than most comparable options. If you have a squishy party member with a tendency to get hurt it's a good investment.

[Gildedragon]

So you want to buff and melee? Check the prestige paladin, and any of charging smite (PHb2)/Divine Spirit (DS)/ Stand Fast (CS web (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) ask the DM about replacing the ride skill and feat with something else and you will have a strong martial boost and paladins have a number of handy defensive spells

Getting domain spontaneity war is also useful as there is a prc or feat that grants a bonus per highest war domain spell available

If not gunning for DMM: there are other useful divine feats, if your Cha is high then you might want to look into the one that is +Cha to damage

[Urpriest]

Blade of Blood is another good use for a first level spell, if you feel like you can spare the hit points.

Law Devotion combos well with Power Attack, though due to it being fueled by turning you probably don't want to do both it and DMM.

You probably aren't interested in grappling, but Balor Nimbus is kind of hilarious at this level.

If you do manage to get Persisting online, Cloud of Knives and Elation are other spells to look into.

[Balor01]

Getting domain spontaneity war is also useful as there is a prc or feat that grants a bonus per highest war domain spell available

If not gunning for DMM: there are other useful divine feats, if your Cha is high then you might want to look into the one that is +Cha to damage
1. Can you tell me which one it is?

2. Can you tell me which one it is?

[Gildedragon]

1)Its a Feat: Holy Warrior, gives a bonus to weapon damage proportional to highest War spell available. Needs 4th level spells though, so no good.


2) Divine Power: needs power attack, +cha to damage rolls

[Darrin]

1)Its a Feat: Holy Warrior, gives a bonus to weapon damage proportional to highest War spell available. Needs 4th level spells though, so no good.


Holy Warrior can be found in Complete Champion.



2) Divine Power: needs power attack, +cha to damage rolls

I think you mean Divine Might, found in Complete Warrior.

Some Cleric spells you might want to consider:

1st:

Blade of Blood (PHBII). Already mentioned. A good spell to put into a Wand Chamber (100 GP, Dungeonscape) to buff up your melee spike damage.

Conjure Ice Beast (Frostburn). Gives you access to the summon nature's ally list, and some interesting special attacks: frigid touch, ice breath, cold aura, and engulf (more on this one later). Cold aura is particularly nifty: free action every round, 1d6 cold damage in a 10' burst, *no save*. Summon a bunch of beasts at once to do Xd6 damage to a small area with no save. Check with your DM if the phrase, "In all other ways, conjure ice beast I functions like summon monster I" allows you to use Augment Summoning, Golden Desert Honey (Complete Mage), or other summon-based buffs.

Ice Slick (Frostburn). Grease for healbots, but with 4x the area (20' square). You can render yourself or your companions immune by casting snowshoes (Spell Compendium)

Protective Interposition (Forge of War). Swift action, touch an ally to switch places, your ally gets +2 AC for one round, and you get a +2 attack bonus on your next attack that round. Sort of the healbot version of benign transposition.

Ray of Hope (Book of Exalted Deeds). Grant an ally a +2 morale bonus on attacks, saves, ability checks, and skill checks. Lasts 1 round/CL.

Ray of Resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerun). Get rid of Str damage or fatigue with only a 1st-level spell slot.

Suspend Disease (Book of Vile Darkness). You may never use it, but it's useful to have this on a scroll somewhere, just in case you get hit with something nasty and don't have a remove disease prepared.

2nd:

Body Ward (Complete Champion). You can use this spell to prevent ability damage caused by Sanctified spells.

Close Wounds (Spell Compendium). Actually, this is kind of a lousy healing spell (maxes out at 1d4+5), but it can be cast as an immediate action, so you can use this as a "Get Out of Death (Temporarily) Card", keep the Barbarian conscious for another round, stabilize someone from a distance, and so on.

Dark Way (Spell Compendium). Creates an unbreakable "bridge", but it can be at any angle so long as you can anchor both ends. Aside from crossing pits/crevasses, use this to block off doors/corridors, divide the room in half, create a ramp, block a stream, etc.

Guidance of the Avatar (WotC website (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a)). +20 competence bonus on your next skill check, AKA "Never fail a UMD check again."