MitD VIII: Everything we know about MITD (but were afraid Tarrasque)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

WARNING: This Thread WILL contain spoilers.
Smallprint: If you are unwilling to hear what MitD might be, or segments from the published books (specially SoD) then this is not a thread for you.
Everyone else: don't bother spoilering or hiding that stuff in this thread. It is what we are here for

ATTENTION: Newcomers, please read:
This thread has, over the last 350 pages, accumulated a lot of knowledge about MitD. However, you don't need to read the whole thread (and the previous seven) to get up to speed. So long as you are reasonably familiar with these first five posts, you can jump right in, with no need to read more than the last few pages. On the other hand, please don't be surprised if your insight has been proposed before.


For relevant MitD canon and in-depth analysis of central MitD scenes, check section 1
For specific characteristics of MitD, check section 2
To see all suggestions so far (and particularly, if your idea has been mentioned before), check section 3
Thread rules and FAQ, check section 4

If you want to propose a new creature, consider using the following question template:

1) How did [insert suggestion here] punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?



Section 1: General Information
Section 1a: Directly from Rich
Rich's Words on MitD
I've been imagining the scene for MITD's eventual reveal for like nine years now

So, just so everyone is clear: I know exactly what the Monster in the Darkness is. I have (almost) always known. Its first two or three appearances were before I had worked out much of the plot's details, so at that point, I just figured it was a mystery I would never answer. Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since. (Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is, either.) [...]I now know exactly when and why the monster will reveal itself, too ... don't expect it any time soon, though. Sorry. There's a lot of story left, and that little tidbit will need to wait to close to the end.
I will say this much: It is possible to guess.
That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.
I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.

[O-Chul] breaks himself out of the cage, he drives off Redcloak with a lucky shot, and most importantly, he has won the trust of the monster in the darkness over the course of months. So much so that the monster digs deep and discovers powers that he didn't even know he had in order to save him.

A lot of people have asked me whether there is any actual answer to the mystery of the Monster in the Darkness that could possibly satisfy after so many years of wondering and guessing and weighing characteristics against existing monsters and otherwise just generally thinking about it.
The answer to that question is yes. Yes, there is.

Notes:
Strip 100 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0100.html) came out Sep 2, 2004, so no creature first published after that time can be considered.
"It is possible to guess." Any number of people have jumped to the conclusion that it means that MitD must be a famous or iconic creature. The phrase warrants no such conclusion. Instead, all it says is that MitD exists listed somewhere outside OotS - nothing more and nothing less. As such, the iconic status of an idea, or lack thereof, is of no weight whatsoever when considering its fitness as MitD's species.
"someone will figure it out": related to the above, it specifies that what Rich means by "guess" is not "throwing darts while blindfolded" type of guess, but a rational, follow the clues to a conclusion process. "A potted plant that was eaten and spat out by the Snarl, giving it eyes, a horrible appearance, great strength and the ability to teleport, and look, it can be guessed- I just did!" might fit the first meaning, but not the second.

Rich's Words on Fidelity to D&D Rules
I barely even reference the 3.5 rules anymore, using them just to determine what sort of spells or class abilities a character might have and then ignoring them the rest of the time.

Notes:

Rich has made mistakes with the powers a character can have (Tsukiko's extra school), but has admitted they are mistakes. The fact he admits it is one, in addition to this quote, indicates that Rich does not routinely give characters powers they wouldn't normally have. In addition, MitD's guessing game would require him to be more careful, not less, about what abilities and powers it displays, such as immunity to mind control.

Published Canon
Stereotyped Big Game Hunters, when they capture MitD:
Monocle: "My gods, is it talking? In Common, no less!"
Jenkins: "Unbelievable!"
Monocle: "Well, that will surely fetch a fine price."
Jenkins: "Indeed!"
Monocle: "I tell you, Jenkins, I never expected to see one of these in this part of the world."
Jenkins: "Quite!"
Monocle: "One-in-a-lifetime catch, Jenkins[...]"
Circus, when the public looks upon MitD:

Human male: "Oh my gods..."
Human Male: "It's horrible!"
Human Female: "And yet... beautiful!"
Human Female Child: "Mommy, I feel funny looking at it"
Human Male: "Blerrch!" (throwing up)
Human Male in wizard's clothing: "I've never seen anything like it!" :smallconfused:
Goblin Female Child: "Wooooooo!"
Goblin Male Child: "YEAH!"
Rest of the public:
3 Human Males, 2 Human Females and 1 Halfling Male look: :smalleek:
1 Human Male has "queasy" mouth, as if about to throw up
1 Human Male has closed his eyes and is attempting to cover them with his hands
2 Goblin Males (RightEye and his oldest son) are unimpressed

RedCloak, admitting he knows what MitD is:


I know what you are. You could kill them all if you wanted.

Xykon's first look at MitD:

:xykon: "My you're one ugly sonofabitch, aren't you?"

Xykon's wording of the mind-controlling spell on MitD:

:xykon: "And if Redcloak ever betrays me, you will devour him whole and spit out that gold amulet he wears."

Nature of the darkness around MitD:

Xykon: Did you see him yet?
RedCloak: He's permanently shrouded in magical darkness. How exactly was I supposed to "see him yet"?


Section 1b: The Circus SceneThe circus scene is, as befits the most MitD-centric moment in the comic, full of clues:
The public's reactions: note they are not fear, but disgust. Vomiting, queasy faces and exclamations of ugliness do not match reactions of people scared (that would be brown pants, yellow pools under the stands, and attempts to run away).
MitD's Actions: none. it is quite explicitly told he is doing nothing. Activated abilities thus are unlikely to explain this scene
Recognition: The show depends on MitD not being recognisable (billed as such), and this aspect reinforced with the guy in robes saying he's never seen anything like MitD before.
Section 1c: The Escape
It can't be dimension door or blink because those spells have pityable ranges (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0812.html).
Teleport and Greater Teleport in the standard rules require the caster to go along with the other subjects of the spell. We have seen teleport work this way in OOTS here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0366.html) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html), and also here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) we get to see two teleports work this way. In fact there, there are two casters, presumably one divine (raise dead) and one arcane (teleport). Then Soul Spliced V casts (presumably) Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0649.html) and travels along too (though we don't actually see the spell cast, just the resultant "pop"). Finally when we see Epic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0643.html) Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html), even then the caster (and his spliced spirits) go along for the ride. So although it doesn't absolutely prove that Rich insists the caster always goes along when they Teleport, it really seems to suggest that is the way it works in OOTS, which is the standard D&D rules. Teleport also requires the caster to know the destination, although when that is not the case, a lucky (i.e. plot-induced) roll in the missed teleportation table could have delivered V & O'Chul to the right place anyway.
It has been suggested that a dimensional anchor/lock cast on MitD's box would prevent him from teleporting, but not from casting it. There is no evidence that such spell has been cast on the box, since the visual effect is a green aura and coloring (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html) that is not present on either, but MitD himself may have been hit by the stray (Quickened) Dimensional Anchor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) cast by V during the preceding battle.
Alternatively, the Forbiddance spell provides a similar effect to that of dimension lock without the visual component, but would require it to be awkwardly placed to only cover MitD's box, since it doesn't hurt V - this would be a very strange use of a spell designed to cover a whole area from teleport. The chance of MitD remembering the password are slight, too, which would mean he'd be damaged every time he entered the box.
Standard teleporting rules do require the caster to touch any other travelers, but the rule is not observed in OotS (see any of the prior examples)
Standard 3.5 edition D&D rules say Plane Shift can be cast so that the caster does not travel along for the ride. However it also says you MUST go to another plane, not another place on the same plane and that "precise accuracy as to a particular arrival point on the intended plane is nigh impossible". Also that "creatures must find their own way back". O-Chul and V make no mention of "getting back" and have no apparent means to plane shift. Note that in most occasions plane shift has been depicted with a kind of "window (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html)" opening, but not always (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html). It has been suggested that MitD could have plane-shifted them to a good plane (e.g. Souther Gods' domain), and then where teleported back by an agent of good.
Wish and the psionic ability "reality revision" are stated as being able to "Transport Travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions".
Miracle can "Move you and your allies along with your and thier gear from one plane to another through planar barriers to a specific locale with no chance of error".
Limited Wish doesn't say anything about travelling or transportation explicitly.
The Epic Spell "Dreamscape" could be interpreted as providing the "Escape" capabilitiy, (see Dream Larva)
Psionics has equivalent teleportation abilities to all of the above. DaggerPen compiled a fairly complete list here.
Creatures who have the ability might have captured Ganonron after he was expelled from V, and forced him to cast the teleport (other than being theoretically possible, no monster has been found capable of doing so other than the Parshendi that came out in 2014, and there is no evidence that this scenario took place)


Section 1d: The Tower SceneIt is likely that Rich bent the rules of D&D to show the point about MitD being both amazingly strong and a credible threat to the OotS. Nevertheless, Nerdanel has done an analysis of the feats and strength necessary for the scene to work in accordance to the rules. Find the relevant posts here, here and here.

Section 1e: MitD's Alignment
The best that can be said about MitD's species' alignment is that it is unlikely to be Good, since RedCloak would not have recruited a Good creature to protect the goblin village given his rather dim views on the Good alignment.

This, however, is a very weak argument, since it can be argued that MitD was not, at the time, Good. Also, consider that MitD's alignment and his species' need not match (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html). As such, knowing MitD's actual alignment brings us no closer to knowing his species' alignment and, thus, for the purposes of this thread, this is a barren path of inquiry.

The only exception to this is alignment when applied to morality plane denizens (i.e. angels, demons, etc.). Rich commented on this topic in DStP:

It's important to note that this doesn't necessarily make Celia right in her views. Heck, they're not even all that consistent, considering she has been known to fly off the handle and zap people from time to time. Because, see, Celia isn't a deva or an angel; she's not an embodiment of Law or Good. She can mistakes and screw up, and she can fail to live up to her own ideals, as she does later when she finds herself cheering while Haley shoots people. She wants to be a pacifist, but she can get caught up in the excitement of battle the same as anyone else.


The entire point of their organization is to blur the lines between the the three fiendish races (demon, daemon, devil) and depict cooperation where normally one would expect backbiting and betrayal. So here, we have a slightly less neutral daemon, a slightly more chaotic devil, and a slightly more lawful demon (one who went to college with devils, even).

From the above, we know that angels and demons (unlike other outsiders) are embodiments of their own morality planes. Yes, they can change their alignment, but only slightly, and when doing so it serves the purposes of their other alignment. And even then, it is a very rare and line-pushing experiment. The embodiments of the morality planes are as follows:



Lawful Evil: Baatezu/Devils
Lawful Neutral: Formians, Inevitables, Modrons
Lawful Good: Archons


Neutral Evil: Yugoloths/Daemons
True Neutral: Rilmani
Neutral Good: Guardinals


Chaotic Evil: Tanar'ri/Demons
Chaotic Neutral: Slaadi
Chaotic Good: Eladrin



Since MitD has performed both good and evil acts, it is very unlikely he is an embodiment of either Good or Evil.
Section 1f: MitD's ScoresIt has proven almost impossible to nail down what MitD's scores might be. The general agreement is that his strength must be past 30, his INT must be high (to account for his ability to learn quickly), his Wisdom be low (to account with his innocence and bad judgement) and his Charisma high (to account for the "beautiful" comment).

However, it is equally likely that he will be a near-epic creature, and as such his scores are going to be all-around high (by human standards).
Section 1g: (Not) Seeing the Gates
MitD's inability to "see" the gates is felt by several participants to be a "clue" about MitD (rather than the alternative possibility, Rule of Funny). However, no explanation that ties MitD's species to the gates has been forthcoming, except when contemplating the idea of MitD being part of the Snarl.

Alternatively, it has been proposed that since the demiplane in which the Snarl is trapped is designed to null divine magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html), and it is third-handedly established in SoD that the gods have difficulty in detecting the rifts, there might be some connection between MitD and the gods that makes him, too, unaware of the rift. Note, however, that MitD has an issue seeing the definitely-not-Snarl-related gate that Xykon installed to stop his zombies from walking into and being destroyed by the rift, so this connection is quite far-fetched.

Finally, it must be pointed out that MitD doesn't have a problem actually seeing the physical object that is the gate. Instead, his words seem to suggest that he doesn't know it is one. It has been suggested this might be because he thinks the only definition of "gate" is the portal that opens when the spell gate is cast. If he has been told that is a gate (and he probably had seen the spell before, when he previously saw the Astral Plane (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html)), he would be confused as to why he can't see one near the massive wooden thing Xykon and RC keep pointing at.
Section 1h: Recognising MitDThere have been two alternative explanations for the Hunter's + Circus scene and the differing reactions to MitD when looked at.

On one hand, the Hunter's scene can be seen as a lampshade hanging of MitD's ability to talk, i.e. an express admission of Rich that he shouldn't, just to get it over with and ignored thereafter. The hunters see a creature that is rare, powerful, strangely non-threatening and decide to sell it. They mention it talks, and from then on Rich need not keep pointing out this fact. The circus scene builds on this, letting us know MitD is revolting to look at (or smelled, or some other passive characteristic).

On the other hand, MitD could be a shifter. The Hunters may have seen a creature that couldn't talk, because MitD was adopting the shape of one, and was sold under the guise of one such creature. The circus crowd would likewise see either a revolting creature, or one that is shifting uncontrollably, such that the change is both revolting and, for some, beautiful (like a kaleidoscope). RC would recognise MitD for what he is, a creature that both shifts and can talk, explaining why he is not surprised by this last fact. Note that while this works on paper as an explanation, no creature that fits it has ever been proposed.
Section 1i: Suspicion of MitD's involvement in the escapeWhy wasn't MitD suspected for the escape beyond the demon roaches? RC, the resident know-it-all and most likely to connect the dots was not present for the escape - he used Word of Recall and only returned once the action was over. We also do not know how much Xykon knows about MitD. We only have MitD's word that Xykon knows what he is, and even then, given Xykon's attitude towards book knowledge, he probably only knows MitD's species name and the fact that he is strong, and thus powerful (power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html) is all Xykon cares about). If so, Xykon would not know MitD can teleport, and likely thinks him too incompetent (and too asleep) to be responsible. All in all, the scene seems carefully orchestrated so that MitD could save O-Chul and V without giving himself away.
Section 1j: The meaning of Fine LineFor a wide variety of reasons, a number of participants feel that the "fine line" comment is meant to be a clue about MitD's authorship:

I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one
The reasoning goes that the phrase itself is unnecesary, the general understanding of it (i.e. Rich didn't create MitD) is addressed well enough in the context, and thus the retreading of the point actually hints to something not quite so clear cut - usually interpreted that Rich did have a hand in MitD's creation (because he helped craft the manual it is in, for example) or because he created it, but not for OotS.

On a strictly logical way, it is true that the sentence is somewhat redundant in context. However, it is also Rich's way of admitting that, to most of his readers, his assurance that he personally didn't create MitD is a cop-out since when MitD is revealed, he might as well have - the line he intends to draw between fantasy monsters created by him and others is fine indeed.

As a practical matter, even if the above interpretation is correct, and it is a subtle hint that Rich did in fact create MitD is some indirect way, it has never as a theory born fruit. To date no creatures have been brought forth with "partially authored by Rich" as a point in their favour.
Section 1k: MitD's Hand in #555?Unfortunately, what we see in Panel 1 in strip 555 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html) is not MitD's hand, but the bucket's handle

Version History
7.8 - New Thread created
8.0 - Up to date to the end of the previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293047-MitD-007-GoldenEyes-(Please-Read-the-First-Post))
8.4 - Up to date to end of page 20
8.6 - Up to date to end of page 30

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Section 2: MitD
Section 2a: Physical Characteristics
AgeMitD's first appearance in SoD happens "29 years ago" (SoD pg. 49). This is measured back from comic 1, so MitD is at least 30 years old.

From his keeper's comments about how long he has been fed stew every day, we know MitD spent more than five years in the circus.
AppearanceMitD's appearance is both disgusting and beautiful, to judge from the reactions of the circus crowd (see 1a SoD Canon). It is ugly enough to provoke vomiting in the stands, but still cause someone to exclaim "And yet... beautiful". It has been suggested it could be because in 1st edition, an evil creature with CHA -1 had the same bonus as a good one with CHA 24
BodyRedCloak suggests (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0299.html) that he could use MitD as material to create undead, which suggests he has a physical body (e.g. not a fire elemental)
DietMitD is almost constantly hungry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), thus probably indicating a species that requires food (but it isn't stated).
Take into account:

He is not at all picky about his food, having been shown to eat almost anything ("His palate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html) can't be that refined", dibs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html) on a moldy cheeseburguer in sock drawer).
He has preference for stew (See SoD, and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html)).
He feels weird to eat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html) babies (including veal), but not adults (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0117.html).
He has eaten scrabble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html) tiles, and apparently didn't find them to his taste (but he was expecting donuts)

GenderMitD self-identifies as male, forming clubs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html) that don't allow girls. Also, O'Chul calls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0654.html) him "a good man"
Head

Eyes: MitD has two yellow eyes, next to each other. They are consistently drawn as larger than those of medium-sized creatures, closer to that of ogres (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0215.html) (while still being more or less at medium-sized height, but he might be crouched under the umbrella)
Face: RC makes reference to stabbing him in the face (War and XPs, page 415a)
Mouth: MitD presumably has a mouth, since he has a tongue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html) and teeth (that leave toothmarks in a taco in SoD). It must be rather large, since Xykon instructs him to "devour [RedCloak] whole"
Olfactory organ: smells by sniffing while holding the bag close to below his two eyes (but could be his mouth, rather than a nose)
Teeth: munches its food. And its voice is deformed while speaking with its mouth full


LimbsMitD has got stomping (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html) ability while holding an umbrella. No specific limbs are identified (feet/paws/tail?), but the use of the verb stomp requires physical limbs, whatever they are. He also leaves tracks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html), which Belkar can't identify (but he's a lousy tracker, and even if he wasn't, MitD was carrying table, chairs, stuffed anials and a paralized O-Chul at the time, which might have obscured the tracks). The limbs are also dextrous enough to hold crayons (War and XPs page 415a) and draw (lack of quality may indicate clumsy apendages, or lack of maturity).

Since he was able to both step on and pull on the rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html) at the same time, he must have or be able to produce at least two limbs, one of which must be prehensile.

In the colouring book, he is seen holding umbrella, crayons and paper, suggesting he may have two prehensile appendages.

In the Earthquake scene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), the stomp suggests he is either bipedal and crouched over, or quadrupedal.

Finally, what is visible in Panel 1 of strip 555 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html) is not a limb, but the bucket's handle.
MaturityMitD has consistently acted in very immature fashion, which could be his personality, or it could indicate he is a child of his species.
Take into account:

He is over 30 years old (see Age)
He hasn't changed all that much in size or personality since his earliest appearance
Many creatures (including demons and angels) have a really hard time fitting as MitD because of his child-like behaviour.

Personal Odor MitD has frequently apologized for his personal odor. This could explain the reaction in the circus, although it would need to address the reason why the odor doesn't affect the public until after he is lighted up.
It has been suggested that MitD's personal smell could be a hint towards the Stench (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troglodyte.htm) ability
SizeSince his first appearance, MitD has fit in a box this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html) size, and under this umbrella (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html). This makes him human-sized or large (http://dnd.wikia.com/wiki/Large).
Take into account:

Rich has been known to mess around with sizes of creatures in the comic (Inexplicably large (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0617.html) faeries), but to this date he has only made small creatures larger, never larger ones smaller than they should be.
MitD could be a young member of his race (see Maturity)
He's probably taller than a kobold:

Mitd: "I know! Maybe I'm a kobold!"
BlueCloak: "You're pretty tall for a kobold"
MitD: "Maybe I'm two kobolds?"
If you do not object to using templates (see 3a: Templated Creature), the Dungeonbred template can be used to reduce his size by one category, theoretically allowing for huge creatures (but does carry the disadvantages of templates)

SleepMitD has been shown sleeping in various occasions (in SoD, and after O'chul's and V's teleportation), and has admitted to becoming sleepy, so it is reasonable to assume he requires sleep (but it isn't stated).
WeightRC was able to lift both MitD and his box onto a cart. This is almost certainly an exaggeration of RC's lifting ability for the purposes of moving the plot forwards, but a detailed examination of the issue was attempted starting here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13829249#post13829249). The conclusion reached is that if Rich wasn't bending the rules, and if the box was made of a light wood (such as pine), and RC was using a spell to boost his strength [Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) gives +6], and he has average or slightly above average strength for a goblin (he is unlikely to have more than that, since he is a pure caster), MitD's weight should be that of a medium creature, tops. (See my numbers here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13842268&postcount=102))

Section 2b: Abilities
AttackMitD attempts to "hit as lightly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html) as possible" and still sends both Miko and her horse flying through a wall, off a tower and long distance (the tower in nowhere to be seen, the mountains are far away).
Take into account:

If proposing a "child" or "runt" of a species known for great strength, the dissonance between his undeveloped personality and adult strength needs to be addressed.
See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7838816&postcount=629) a post examining possible ways the punch could have happened by the rules.


DefencesMitD did not notice 5 attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html) from Belkar and feels tickles (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html) when attacked by Miko.
Take into account:

It could indicate piercing/slashing resistance, DR, high AC, high HP or a combination thereof.
He got a paper cut (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html) from trying to eat a letter, indicating he can hurt himself (e.g. overcoming epic resistance, if he himself is epic, or indicating a natural armour that doesn't protect his insides), or Rule of Funny
Miko believes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html) he has DR
RC knows he cannot possibly injure MitD by stabbing him in the face (see War and XPs, page 415a)

Earth CrackingMitD cracks the earth by stomping on it.
Suggestions:

Consequence of his great strength: sending horses flying through walls and for kilometers take about as much strength as causing the Earth to crack.
Earthquake ability: like that of an Earth Elemental, or some other specific spell-like ability in that sense such as Wreck Earth (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/wrack-earth--2982/)

KnowledgeEven though MitD displays lack of maturity (see 2a: Maturity), he has displayed flashes of brilliance:
O'Chul's comment he learnt Go! quickly
His ability to tell that a ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) was only the second half of a whole
He admits (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html) he doesn't actually try to think, and that he lets Xykon and RedCloak think for him
If MitD is psionic, it can be explained by hypercognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hypercognition.htm)
O'Chul's EscapeWe know from Rich's words (see section 1a) that MitD was responsible for O'Chul's and V's escape (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html).
Suggestions:

Teleportation Spell: in D&D, teleportation requires the spell caster to travel with the targets, and more often than not to be touching the other targets.
Wish: Very few creatures can cast wish, but would explain the situation well. In its favour, MitD is surprised (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html) when his wishes don't come true (but that could be his child personality).
Plane shifting: Many creatures have this spell, but has most of the disadvantages of teleportation, plus O'Chul's and V's escape does not match the effect of plane shift (in that they ended up in the same plane)
See also Section 1b for an in-depth analysis of teleportation options in D&D

Take into account:

MitD may have been hit by V's missed dimension anchor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), explaining why he didn't go along if it was a teleportation effect.
Plane Shift, in particular, doesn't necessarily affect the caster (it has succesfully been used offensively in OotS)
It has been pointed out that if it were a spell, MitD would have had to say its name out loud, which typically a spell requires (but not an extraordinary, spell-like ability or supernatural ability, nor a psionic power). On the other hand, not all spells have been said out loud in-comic (example: Xykon's mental suggestion in SoD, Redcloak passing his Trial Of Becoming A Hobgoblin with a silent Slay Living), so it doesn't discard a spell either.
Other systems have spells or abilities named "Escape"

PsionicsIt has been suggested that MitD may have psionic abilities since we never see his limbs holding up objects, and as an avenue to explain his other powers. If he only starts to actively use psionics at the time of escape ("unshackling" his mind due to the stress of the situation), it would also tie with Rich's comment about discovering powers deep inside himself (see Section 1a - Rich's Words). Also, it would explain why he tends to be tired after using his powers.
Take into account:

Most psionics featured in the comic (goblin mind reader (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html), the story of the little psion that could (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0494.html) and a guest appearance in SSaDT), had a purplish aura around their entire heads. However, Laurin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html) has a yellow aura. In both cases, though, the aura surrounds the entire head, where MitD, at best, illuminates his eyes briefly.
During the Go game (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html), his turn starts and end, and yet we don't see him place a counter. Rich may have skipped the dialogue where MitD told O'Chul were to place his counter just to reduce the wordiness of that page, though. There is also no psionic effect line like the ones radiating from Laurin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0930.html)
MitD is unaware of most of his powers, which doesn't suggest his mind is making them happen (so it would only explain the escape, if at all).
RedCloak, who knows what MitD is, had to research (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) if psionics existed in OotS-verse. If MitD is psionic, why was it so difficult to know? (it has been suggested he may have templated psionic ability, and as such his psionics not be part of his species). On the other hand, creatures can be psionic or not depending on the setting. RC could have known about the mind flayer in Dorukan's Dungeon, and still not know if psionic powers did exist.
If MitD wasn't actively psionic until the escape, it would also constitute an explanation: RC tested him for psionic powers and, finding none, couldn't decide if psionics existed or not.
The lack of visible limbs is likely a combination of the minimalistic drawing style of the comic and Rich's desire to not show us what MitD is.
MitD had to tip the circus cage to get to the bucket of stew; presumably a psionic creature could simply levitate the bucket (but MitD may be unaware of his abilities)
The fact that no hand is seen holding the umbrella is a style issue where the hand is behind the object, rather than around it. Belkar holds his daggers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) in the same way

RainIt has been suggested that MitD could have (inadvertently) caused rain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html) to help O'Chul rest
Raising undeadMitD probably does not have the ability to raise undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0299.html), but might be used as raw material. At the very least, he does not have 5 levels of cleric, although it has been pointed out he may have the capability but due to his innocence/incompetence he has never used it, leading RC to believe he cannot without gaining cleric levels first. That said, RC would probably have checked MitD's MM entry, and be aware of all its powers, regardless of which one MitD uses.
SightMitD's sight is keen enough to be able to recognise Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html) on top of a dragon a catapult-max-range away, without the benefit of a telescope
SpeechThe Stereotyped Big Game Hunters were surpised MitD could speak, and in common (see 1b SoD Cannon)

This is usually interpreted as a lampshade: his species can't or won't talk, but Rich changed it for plot purposes.
Alternatively, MitD's species could have been confused with a similar species, which while rare and valuable, is not capable of speech.
Note that the wording could indicate both species incapable of speech, and species that normally wouldn't talk (like Zodars).

It has been pointed out that MitD's speech bubbles are black text on white background, unlike demons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html), who tend to have red-on-black and undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0832.html), who tend to have white-on-black. However, there is one demon who has a normal voice, Sabine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), so it is probably not a good indicator of species. Rich has confirmed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14733452&postcount=190) that voice "colour" can mislead.
ShoutMitD can shout (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html) loud enough that it gives Belkar pause. This may or may not be an actual shout attack, although neither Belkar nor Haley were damaged, but they may have been Shaken, as in Frightful Presence.
Summoning Demon RoachesMitD was not responsible for the Demon Roaches (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html) following team evil - as per SoD, they first attached to Xykon and RC in an evil dinner where Xykon used to get his coffee (in his pre-Lich days). MitD may have attracted more of them, but not the original group. As such, it is unlikely that their presence indicates anything about MitD. That said, the Demon Roaches are 4th-wall breaking rule of funny most of the time, regardless of their origin.
Swallow Whole?In SoD, Xykon orders a mind controlled MitD to devour whole RC is RC double crosses Xykon. This might indicate that MitD has a swallow whole ability.
Take in account:
Xykon uses the word devour, not swallow, which allows MitD to chew.
Xykon had only just met MitD, and since he isn't interested in reading, he probably would not know what MitD is precisely. Nevertheless, something about MitD (probably a big mouth or similar) suggested to Xykon that MitD would be able to carry out the order.


Section 2c: Other Characteristics
CategoriesMitD cannot belong to any of the following:

Not a deity (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
Not Construct (eats, and desires to eat; sleeps)
Not Elemental (eats, and desires to eat; sleeps)
Not Ooze (has a body)
Not Plant (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
Not Undead (eats, sleeps, etc)
Not Vermin (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)


Challenge Rating
Rich intends the MitD to be a credible challenge for the heroes - the watchtower scene was included for that reason, as explained by Rich. Since Rich likely has a target level the party will achieve by the time they face MitD, MitD must have a CR at or above this level. As a rule of thumb, CR18 or higher is preferred, Epic levels being better.
See also lothos' analysis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6669234&postcount=795) of MitD's CR

Connection to the Astral PlaneMitD seems to know the Astral Plane's characteristics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html).
Considerations:

He doesn't remember having been there
Xykon is surprised at this
It could be just a successful knowledge roll, or that he was taken there at some point in the past
In the past, it displayed extreme ignorance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html) of the planes

DarknessAs per NCftPB (see section 1a - Published Canon), the darkness that surrounds MitD is magical in its nature. Xykon's instructions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0103.html) imply that they are independent of MitD, since he can step or leap out of them (i.e. leave them behind).
Note that D&D rules for line of sight allow for creatures at the edge of magical darkness to see out of it, while remaining concealed.
Drawing CluesEven though MitD is always in darkness, it has been suggested that by carefully noting the placement of his eyes, and of anything he manipulates, his general shape can be deduced. The general consensus is that he is either walking crouched or has four legs on the floor (from the placing of the stomp (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html)), and that he has a long reach (as when pulling on the rope: 9th panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html)). Take into account that this is debatable, and that MitD has not necesarily been drawn consistently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0105.html)

Since he can turn his eyes around (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) (panel 11) without turning his entire body, it is possible that MitD has a neck or similar (such as eyestalks) that can move independently of the rest of the body.

Also, it has been brought up multiple times that the go board is a cryptoclue about MitD. Unfortunately, there is no agreement on what image they show, with people having identified it as Tarrasque, PvP's Skull, a demon, or an 8-bit sprite from some NES game (also, one jokingly suggested it looked like Pepe le Pew due to the color scheme). It is likely a case of pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia)
EnvironmentThe Stereotyped Big Game Hunters were surprised to find him deep in a rainforest. This discards rainforest as his environment, but leaves everything else open.
FamilyMitD remembers his dad "sort of (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html)" as BIG and even a bigger eater than he is.
Considerations:

MitD could have been "adopted" (or even created) by a member of another species completely, just as he is in the wrong environment. If this adoptive parent is of a different alignment from MitD's base species, it could explain MitD's conflict between good and evil.
MitD is still young and will eventually be as big as he remembers his father to have been
MitD might have a warped mental image of his father, from remembering as "big" when MitD himself was smaller; as such, he may already be as big as his father used to be.
MitD is mixed breed, and his father is larger than he will ever be

Knowledge of MitDMitD is very difficult to identify. Only the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters and RedCloak (see Section 1a) have claimed to know what he is, while what looks like a wizard in the circus audience admitted he'd never seen anything like it. MitD believes Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html) also knows what he is.
It has been suggested that the hunters may have confused MitD with a different, less powerful but similar looking species that nevertheless is still rare. There have been no practical examples of this yet. Stereotypical Big Game Hunters, however, are seldom wrong about their prey.

Mental ResistanceIn SoD (pg.96), Xykon was able to command MitD (as evidenced by MitD's swirly eyes), indicating MitD is not immune to mind-affecting spells.
SpeciesMitD was declared by the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters to be "one of these", indicating that there are more than one of him.

Section 2d: Abilities Augmentation: Templates, Class Levels, etc.A number of ways to increase creatures capabilities to match those shown by MitD have been proposed. All of them have the same general problem: they likely violate Rich's assurance that he didn't invent MitD and that it can be figure out. To illustrate these issues, consider two examples:
BingosaurusThe argument most commonly cited in favour of augmentations is that it is not a Rich creation if Rich merely uses already existing rules to create MitD, such as adding tempaltes, feats, class levels, etc. But there are rules for making your own monsters, spells, etc.

Nothing is stopping Rich from making what is for all intents and purposes a Bingosaurus* complete with an insatiable hunger for stew and yellow eyes, using rules that were published prior to comic #100. He will then furnish it with Bingo's epic earthquake (which functions like a regular earthquake except it is much more awesome and can be aimed in a direction), Wish and Bingo's Commanding You To Stop ability, DC100, at will

*Named after Lord Bingo, original proponent of this counterexample.
Binks' Mystery SwordRelated to the above, the second most common argument in favour of augmentations is that since the rules exist, it can be figured out. By the same logic, a DM could hand a character a custom magic item like Binks' Mystery Sword* and not tell his player what it does because the DM didn't invent it, instead followed the rules, so clearly the player can figure out what it does on his own.

*Named after Binks, original proponent of this counterexample.

The augmentation ideas presented so far are:
FeatsWhen a creature is promoted beyond its base CR, with every 3 HD added, the DM can also add a feat. Of interest to this thread are the two following feats:

Mighty Roar: allows a creature, once per day, to make a dreadful roar that renders everyone nearby shaken for x rounds. Pre-requisite: be an animal or magical beast of at least large size.
Stamp: allows a creature to make a shockwave with a radius of a number of squares equal to their HD. Creatures within the radius that fail a balance check vs the stamper's attack roll are knocked down; structures are also damaged by the shockwave, which could explain the ground being torn up if one is generous with the definition of 'structure'. Prerequisites: have feet, be at least huge size, and have the trample attack.

Cons:

No Wish feat
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since the exact number of extra HD added by "the DM" is not really guessable.
Size issues: MitD is likely Medium sized; while large is possible, huge is likely too big.
MitD is clearly lazy, and thus has little canon support for the idea that he has developed beyond the average of his species (quite the opposite, in fact). His father being bigger than he is also argues against this (more HD eventually makes the monster bigger).


Templated/Mixed lineage CreatureA whole range of possibilities, it suggests MitD is a stack of Templates rather than a specific monster type.
Pros: Can be templated to have:

Teleportation
Psionics
Earthquake
Unnerving Gaze

Cons:

No Wish template before strip #100 (Amidah (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16766329&postcount=994) and other Immortal's Handbook variants came out later)
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since the exact base type and templates use is not really guessable.
Unless the exact combination of templates and base creature has been used elsewhere, it can be argued that an original template stack would be a Rich invention.
Its unlikely that a one-in-a-lifetime combination of templates would be so common that the hunters call it "one of these"
No actual evidence of MitD having different species parents

Proposed combinations:

The Adversary (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Illithid#Legends): a illithid merged via "faulty ceremorphosis" with a powerful sorcerer.
Half-giant war troll of legend
Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque
Baby Awakened Fiendish Half-Efreeti Tarrasque
Paragon!something
Phrenic Ephemeral Hangman
Phrenic Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque Wilder 1
Phrenic Tarrasque Wilder 1
Half-Orc Half-Dragon
Radiant Phrenic Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7590835&postcount=200)
Pseudonatural Phrenic Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10319127&postcount=1349)
Pseudonatural greater barghast servitor of the Dark One
Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) Phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) Pseudonatural (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm) Tauric Werewolf Lord Hybrid Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm#WerewolfLord)/Chimeric Giant (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template-giant-cr-1) Giant Shadow Awoken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) Bonsai aka Potted Plant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15747023&postcount=236)

Pimp my Tarrasque
Given the huge number of such combinations suggested for the Tarrasque, this approach is also known as Pimp my Tarrasque:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w130/superbongos/pimptarrasque.jpg

Class Levels Only useful to explain the escape scene, it suggests MitD has 18+ class levels of Sorcerer, which would allow him to cast wish even if the base creature normally wouldn't (assuming it has at least 18 CHA).
Cons:
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since MitD has not shown any other spell from those 18 levels
It is unexplained how MitD would even gain 18 levels, given his general lazyness
It would require MitD to have forgotten he gained those levels ("discovers powers that he didn't even know he had")

Proposed class levels:

18 levels of sorcerer would give him access to wish.
2 levels of fighter with the alternate class feature Dungeoncrasher might be used to explain the tower scene (although he would have had to rush Miko and her horse, which doesn't quite fit the "hit lightly" rule he himself imposed).

ReincarnationThis idea suggests that MitD used to be a powerful spellcaster (level 18 or more) that dies and used a Reincarnation spell to reincarnate as a rare animal.
Cons:
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since there has been no mention of the possibility of reincarnation in the comic, and it would make figuring out what MitD almost impossible
AbominationIt has been claimed that there is a way for Rich to create his own abomination. Some abomination traits are similar in their description to MitD's eating habits.

Cons:
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words
Almost certainly violates the "didn't create it" clause in Rich's words
Abominations are immune to mind control

PsychicFrom a third-party book published just months before strip 100, if offers a number of powers similar to teleport and others, except using "psychic powers".

Cons:
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since MitD has shown no psychic abilities, and if he did, they are too easily confused with psionics
Unbridled ShapeshifterBy RAW, a shapeshifting creature can gain a large number of abilities by successive shapeshifting into the correct creatures, gaining their magical powers and access to ways to make those changes permanent. The ur-example of this is Pun Pun, the shapeshifting all-powerful kobold. Combined with some form of convenient amnesia you could create a creature very much like MitD, no matter what powers MitD turns out to posses.

Cons:
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a)
Rich has been very outspoken about his views on this kind of shapeshifting, including a series of articles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172910) on how to fix it.


Book of Vile Darkness Demon LordAs per BoVD, demon lords each have a unique look and a unique set of abilities. While a few examples are given (such as Demogorgon, a demon prince), they are explicitly by no means exhaustive. The proposed demon lord, as such, fits the big scenes in whatever way we wish.
Cons:
Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a)
Demons may or may not have parents in OotS (general cosmology used doesn't have them, but the demon summoned by Qarr claimed to have one - but he was under the Despair spell, and therefore his idea of being a disappointment to his father might have been spell-induced)
Demon Lords are embodiments of their respective Evil plains, and as per Rich's words on the topic, should not be able to change their moral position more than slightly - nowhere near the range demonstrated by MitD (see section 1e)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Section 3: Proposed Ideas

Section 3a: Suggestions that Fit the Big Scenes (FBS)This category groups ideas that fit the clues in the major scenes of MitD, with the following characteristics (as per thread consensus):
1) Has a plausible explanation for the Escape
2) Has a plausible explanation for the Tower (both his attack and his defence)
3) Has a plausible explanation for the Circus (both his act, and the reactions)
4) Isn't one of the impossible categories (unless it is an exception)
5) Existed before strip #100 in a form accessible to Rich.
6) Size no bigger than Huge ("fits in the box")
7) Is vulnerable to mind-affecting effects (SoD)

The proposals may still have other objections (such as that the above explanations require stretching the rules of D&D).

Athasian Nightmare Beast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20077752&postcount=944)
Pros:
30 Strength
Psionic teleport
Fairly ugly and unique
CR18, decent defences
Dominated by its voracious appetite, can eat anything
Despite spell-like abilities and intelligence appears to have no listed languages or even forms of communication

Cons:
Huge
Posted publicly a few months after MitD's decision, but the designer could have sent an advance copy to other designers, such as Rich.

Glabrezu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#Glabrezu) (SRD or MM 43)Pros: Access to wish 1/month, explains the escape and why the goblin wasn't teleported. It also cannot grant its own wishes, further explaining the lack of later success.
31 STR
20 CHA, but still rather disturbing looking (http://img04.deviantart.net/0731/i/2013/107/3/8/glabrezu_by_vegasmike-d622krv.jpg), while not being immediately recognisable as a demon
Surprising it can speak common (not in its language list)
The stronger limbs are probably not dextrous. The human-like ones are probably not strong enough to pull on a rope.

Cons: Huge would not really fit under the umbrella
Not surprising it can speak
Depending on canon interpretation, cannot have a parent
Embodiment of Chaotic Evil plane - should not be able to be as Good as MitD is.
Low CR
Hagunemnon (Protean) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hagunemnon.htm) (SRD or ELH 196)Pros:

Great strength (53)
Access to Planar Travel through convenient partial shapeshift into e.g. Umbral Blot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm), which includes greater teleport
As a psionic creature, it may have been converted by the means described in the Expanded Psionics handbook, which would give him psionic teleport
adequate size
his shapeshifting sounds disturbing, but has 34 CHA.
Normally speak only ever-evolving language impossible for any non-protean to understand, thus being surprising it talks in common.
Its psionic ability to detect thoughts would explain his knowledge of the ritual, probably having heard RC's thoughts on the subject.
Fluff implies there are protean newborns, so presumably they have some form of parentage ("Even newborns are tides of flesh, ever changing")

Cons:

Plane shift doesn't fit well with the escape as shown (see 1b: The Escape), and while greater teleport fits slightly better, it requires a timely shapeshift into the exact appropriate creature. There is no evidence that psionic-class creatures have been converted as per EP handbook.
Its constant shapeshifting has not been reflected in a change of MitD (mouth and eyes stay roughly the same)

Hunting Horror (CoC)Pros:

CR 20 - powerful enough to be MitD.
Strength of 34 - on the lower side, but within acceptable bounds for the tower scene.
Hideous form - looks like a "black ropy worm or serpent, rather like a legless dragon... with a single wing rising from the middle of the back and a long sinuous tail trailing behind," but are also "mutable, as some have reported them with two wings instead of one, or two eyes instead of a single three-lobed yellow eye." 6th edition of CoC describes them as "hard to look at" and "continually changing, twitching and writhing".
Accompanied by a permanent foul stench that causes Nausea.
Has a Roar ability, but that causes damage, so perhaps that doesn't explain the "STOP" after all.
Can understand speech, but "rarely speaks," according to the D20 version.
Has a Swallow Whole ability, so more than capable of devouring Redcloak.
Has a tail that it can use as an appendage, allowing him to smack the ground and "punch" Miko and Windstriker through a wall, but making pulling things or holding small objects difficult.
Rare to see it on Earth at all, let alone in a rainforest in the middle of the day.
Acquires spells by rolling dice, and picking from a list

Cons:

Defences not that great: AC of 19, plus DR 5/+1, fast healing of 10 - only the last can help explain the "tickle" comment, and not well at that.
Acquires spells by rolling dice, and picking from a list
Access to teleportation a bit dodgy - some older versions give it more random spell access, but D20 specifies a list of spells that does not include teleportation
Damaged by light - explanations vary as to whether it can tolerate a few hours worth of light or if light damages it outright, but a problem either way
Too big to fit under either umbrella or box.
The total lack of non-wing limbs in the official description doesn't fit the art clues. It's of variable form, though, so it might have limbs.
Alternatively, it has been suggested that the HH could be following the CoC rules, rather than the d20 rules, in which case he could use Avert Harm to resist the attacks, but in that case, the creature does not have a means to explain the escape. As a workaround, it has been suggested it could have learnt a heavily modified Word of Recall that teleports to a random destination, although this has no canon support (that such WoR exists, nor that MitD has learnt it).
Schlock Mercenary's Carbosilicate Amorph (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/)Pros:
Can interface with a teraport to teleport
Incredible strength and fighting abilities. Invulnerable to anything short of plasma weapons.
Looks like a pile of poo
Endearing and adorable
Fits under the umbrella easily, but his dad could have been bigger if he had eaten recently
Famous for his unbridled appetite.
Rich could probably secure copyright from Howard Tayler, since they are friends (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19691244&postcount=115)
Cons:
Rich probably wouldn't use a SF character from another comic in his fantasy comic.

Slaad (ELH 217)White/Black slaads only.
Pros:
Very strong, epic defences
Can teleport others
Disgusting appearance (humanoid toad)
Not inmune to mind-affecting spells
White one fits in the box/umbrella. Black only in the box.

Cons:
Tricky reproduction cycle means black/white slaads are unlikely to have a "father" (unless it is of the foundling variety).
MitD would have to be over 300 years old, having evolved through green, grey and death slaad varieties. This does not mesh well with his mental characteristics. (unless Rich has bent the reproduction flavor text)
It may be Product Identity (listed as such in d20.org, but not in the WotC legal documentation).
Even if it is, it may not be impossible for Rich to use it for free, unlike trademarked creatures.
Can talk common, and thus wouldn't surprise the hunters that he can talk. Unless, that is, slaads usually talk like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html) (but this is probably Rule of Funny)
It may be too recognisable as a humanoid toad to fit the wizard's comment in the circus scene.


Uvuudaum (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/epicNonAbominations.html#uvuudaum)Pros:

greater teleport available 3 times a day as an SLA explains the escape
very high strength (39), is very ugly but has extremely high charisma (46)
large bonuses to knowledge:arcana and spellcraft explains understanding of the ritual
Large size, so fits in the box (not so much under the umbrella)
Normally communicates with telepathy, not by speaking, so it's surprising it talks.
A confusion aura could explain reactions in the circus, particularly if it's weakened by MitD being a youngster of the species.

Cons:
Might not have eyes or mouth (unmentioned in description, not present in pictures)
His confusion aura should give everyone missing saves around him swirly eyes, but no such thing is visible in the circus scene.



Section 3b: Frequently Proposed Unlikely Ideas
These ideas have been frequently brought up, but they fail in a major way that presents a major problem. If you are considering them, please address the problem listed in your initial post.

DeityFirst, note that "a god" is not a specific proposal. There are hundreds to pick from, many with wildly different capabilities. Furthermore:

If they have D&D stats, they will have Divine Ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineCharacteristics), which automatically gives them immunity to mind control (see Section 2c: Categories). This applies even to demigods (rank 1-5).
They can speak every language - unsurprising they can talk
Why would the SBGH think there is a market in selling deities?
Any deity RC would consider appropriate for his team (Evil/Neutral ones) can Animate Dead, or copy it through Miracle.


GrueCan challenge any lone adventurer, has insatiable appetite and sparse descriptions mention it being horrible. However, it wouldn't desire to be lighted as MitD does, and it is not known to have magic (e.g. teleportation). Note that MitD has been in the light before joining team evil, both in the jungle and specially in the circus, and has never shown any discomfort from being in the light.
Pun-Pun & FamilyPun-Pun isn't really something that can be classified as "one of those", and it seems likely that Rich made a joke of this idea when MitD suggested he might be a kobold, only to be told he's to tall for a kobold

Snarl jrProbably the #1 proposed idea, the "son-of-Snarl" has a major problem: it does not match Rich's words that MitD is a monster someone else (i.e. not him) invented (see Section 1a: "it isn't something I just made up for the story" & "I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually"). Snarl has also not displayed any form of teleportation magic, nor any particular appetite, nor need to sleep.

Furthermore, Snarl has been kept a major secret - it's unlikely that the hunters would know, or that they have seen so many Snarl Jr.s running around they can talk about not having seen "one of these".
Tarrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) (SRD or MM 240)Tarrasque is an iconic creature, famed for eating a lot and sleeping a lot. Unfortunately, there is no particular reason to think that MitD is an iconic creature, and Tarrasque brings several other issues to the table, the most important of which is its lack of teleportation/wishing abilities. Other issues: Tarrasque is traditionally unique and non-reproducing (not part of a species) and far bigger than can fit under an umbrella.

Section 3c: Copyrighted IdeasAll ideas listed here, regardless of how well they fit, have a major problem: they are trademarked, or otherwise unavailable for Rich's use due to legal issues (see Section 4a: Inappropriate Topics)

Boggart (Harry Potter)
Diawolf
Domo-kun
Father (KND)
FF Black Mage
FF Red Mage
Godzilla & pals
Gozer (Ghostbusters)
Haggunenon (HHGTTG)
Heffalump
Kirby
Pervect (from MYTH Adventures)
My Little Pony
Q (from Star Trek)
Rawhead Sidhe (Dresden Files)
SnorlaxA great fit, since:

"They can throw incredibly powerful punches and cause immense earthquakes",
is known for its huge appetite (including his ability to eat moldy food) and its sleeping.
It grows from a much smaller pokemon, Munchlax, and fits in the box as an adult (6' 11'').
Using Metronome, it could have a plot-casuality induced access to "escape from battle" abilities.
When not drawn anime style, pokemons can be downright disturbing (non-Snorlax example (http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2012/10/druddigon_RJPalmer.jpg)).
When you fight a static-encounter Snorlax in the games, if you do not capture it, when the fight ends the game text tells you that it has 'stomped off back to the mountains.'
Has Fissure as an egg move, whose in-game description reads: 'The user opens up a fissure in the ground and drops the foe in. The target instantly faints if it hits.' (picture (http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/6/64/Fissure.png))


Shadow (from Babylon 5)
SMT3 and Persona 3 and 4 (from Megami Tensei)
Skull (from PvP)
Tonberri
Vatch (from Witches of Karres)
Vorlon (from Babylon 5)
Weeping Angel (from Dr. Who)
Ygramul (Neverending Story)
Yoshi
Zoidberg

Section 3d: Proposed ideas
Ideas that have been proposed, but cannot explain all major MitD scenes (See 3a)
Aboleth Mage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/aboleth.htm)Pros:

28 Strength
Effective caster level 10th would allow him to have teleport
Appearance: "The aboleth is a revolting fishlike amphibian" but charisma 14 could count as "beautiful" for someone that isn't too nauseated by fish-like beings
Can only speak languages that are used underwater - would be surprising to hear him speak out of the water, and in common no less.
 Very rare to be found outside of their natural environment (water)
Grows bigger as it ages - father would be bigger than MitD
Eating creatures gives him their memories, which would explain why he doesn't like to eat babies (no memories - bland and boring food) and why he likes stew (he never knows what he's going to get, it's a big surprise!)

Cons:
This creature could be considered the "almost" FBS suggestion.

Strength is almost to the 30 used as rule of thumb for the tower scene, but not quite there
Huge, almost small enough to fit in the box - and if made any smaller by age or template, he'd be too weak
CR17 is almost to the rule of thumb expected power level
3 eyes - almost the right amount - vertically stacked.
Study-based spellcasting is a poor fit for MitD, who is never seen studying spells

Akvan Div Prince (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/div.html)Too tall. probably not ugly enough. Might be too recent.
Alhoon (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Alhoon)Undead, not strong enough
Anaxim (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#anaxim) (SRD or ELH 158)Construct, no teleportation.
Angel of DecayUndead
Astral DragonToo big when powerful enough (if it ever is powerful enough - top strength of 24 is insufficient); too weak when the right size. Too recognisable due to being a dragon for it to fit the circus scene. Fluff about staying a child until mating does fit MitD.
Astral Dreadnaught (http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/converted/crypt/astral_dreadnaught.htm)only one eye, gargantuan, can't explain the escape
Asura (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Asura_%283.5e_Creature%29) (high CR homebrew)Can cause earthquake, looks weird. Can't explain the escape. Unsurprising to hear it speak in common. Too many eyes.
Atropal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal) (SRD or ELH 159)Undead: doesn't eat or sleep.
Audrey IINot that ugly (people flock to see it), unclear if it can teleport others/grant wishes (up for interpretation), unclear if its strength is sufficient to punch people through walls and send them flying.
Bauhei (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?66577-Creature-Catalog-new-3-5-conversions/page39&p=4301770#post4301770)Unclear if it can be called "one of these". Doesn't fit the circus scene (awe doesn't induce vomiting)
Aurumach RilmaniToo humanoid looking to fit the circus scene.
Baku (http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=643)28 STR, probability travel works as teleport or a critical roll, fairly unrecognisable. However, also not specially disgusting looking.
Barghest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/barghest.htm) (SRD or MM 22)Pros:

Eats a lot, and gets stronger as he eats (reference (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0299.html))
Greater Barghest has dimension door

Cons:

Not really all that strong, (max 20)
No earthquake ability
Dimension door doesn't explain the escape well
can speak (but not in common)


Black Troll (http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=506)Large, ugly as every troll, but looking demonic on top. Can cast Teleportation without error, explaining the escape (but not what the hell a troll is doing with that spell and 10 INT and CHA). Unfortunately, not quite strong enough.
Brachyurus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/brachyurus.htm) (SRD or ELH 170)Strong and relatively ugly, but can't explain the escape
Brainstealer DragonOld ones are strong and have spells that can explain the escape, but are too big to fit in the box. Young ones that do fit are too weak. All of them can explain the circus scene. Published a year after strip #100
Braxat (MM2 37)Not particularly strong, CR9 and can only explain the escape with Dimension Door.
Brood Keeper (MM3) Can't explain the escape, the fear aura doesn't fit the circus scene, too big, not strong enough. Rich may have had a hand in their creation.
Bigfoot Very strong, presumed ugly even though no-one ever manages to see him. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.
CerebrilithCan´t explain the escape. Insufficient Strength
Centaur (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/centaur.htm) (SRD or MM 32)Not strong enough, can't explain the earthquake, the tower scene, the circus scene or the escape.
Cherub (http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=1478) (four-faced version)Pros:

Strength of 36.
"four-sided head with the faces of a lion, ox, eagle, and man," which can be disgusting
Wish as an SLA, easily explains the escape
Has earthquake as a power, could explain the stomp.
Large size
Can be advanced to gargantuan, meaning that MitD's "father" could be either another larger cherub who was raising him or just a god specifically.
Strange to find a cherub in a rainforest.

Cons:

Like most angelic hosts and demonic armies, it is hard to understand how it went unrecognised in the circus act - most people would have heard of them at their religious service of choice.
OotS Cherubs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0491.html) don't look like that.
Four sets of eyes
Unsurprising it can talk common (can talk all languages)
SBGH would probably not likely sell divine beings into slavery
Immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities.
Doesn't really fit with why Xykon and Redcloak expect him to be "scary" and eat children


Chi You (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_You)Vaguely defined. Weird looking, but not particularly revolting. Can speak.
ChichimecNo explanation for the escape
CoeurlCR4, nowhere near powerful enough. Can't explain the escape
Concordant Killer (MM4)Created too late to be MitD. Not strong enough. Can't explain the escape
Corpse Tearer Linnorm (MM2 141)Strong and with access to miracle, but only through cleric spells, which would give him Animate Dead, which MitD is known not to be able to cast
Couatl (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/couatl.htm)Cannot explain the escape (caster level not high enough); since it has cleric abilities, should be able to help RC
Crypt ThingUndead, can't explain the tower scene. Unclear how somone could claim not to have seen a human skeleton before. Unsurprising it can talk
CrystalleCan cast Wish, but limited since the ioun stone has limited charges. STR 33. Cons: appearance not particularly disgusting; Elemental: doesn't eat or sleep.
Dao (MoP 172)aka "earth genie". Pros:
Can grant wishes
Can cast earthquake
Has a "shove" ability to push enemies
Cons:
Unsurprising it can talk
CR6, little strength, no defences
Not unusually ugly
Unclear how father would be "bigger and hungrier"
Deus Ex Machina personifiedWould be a Rich creation
DisenchanterNot strong enough, cannot explain the escape, not powerful enough to be Xykon's Ace in the Hole.
Displacer Beast (MM 60)Can't explain the escape, not strong enough
Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm) (SRD or MM 68 + most MMs)Pros:

Decent defences
they like to eat and sleep

Cons:

They don't get the kind of strength and powers needed until they are way too big for the box.
They are very recognisable, and thus don't match the circus' reactions.

Draknor (http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=1061)Sprouts from the ground, but we have seen MitD in high floors of towers.
Dread Linnorm (MM2 141)Pros:

Huge Strength
Wish (Sorcerer Levels)
Ugly (with high Charisma)

Cons:

Colossal - requires him to be a runt, which brings problems re: high-level spell access
Two Heads - requires a reason why it lost one (e.g. decapitation)
Immunity to all spells of the enchantment school

Dream Larva (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#dreamLarva) (SRD or ELH 161)Pros:

Worst Nightmare ability explains circus' reactions (as long as it is a 'young' dream larva, so that it is not immediately lethal)
Very strong (42), high CR, defences and DR
Dreamscape allows teleportation, with a certain amount or rules bending (see here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7485816&postcount=77) for an explanation)

Cons:

Immune to mind-affecting effects
Dreamscape doesn't explain the escape all that well
Not known for its appetite, or its need to sleep
Unclear if a young dream larva can even exist, and would be less lethal than an adult one.


Earth Elemental (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm) (SRD or MM 97)Unstated how it would cause the escape, it cannot provide material for undead
EfreetNot powerful enough in D&D, regardless of how powerful they were in the original mythology
Empyrean5e monster, and therefore published way too late for MitD
Enveloper (1e FF)Insufficient strength, it's main ability of absorbing powers (thus explaining the escape scene), would also give MitD knowledge that would be at odds with his known naïvety and ignorance.
Ephemeral Hangman (ToM 161)Pros:
Looks like a mass of black tentacles centered around a large maw and a trunklike body.
Large, but when in darkness or shadowy illumination, it can fit into spaces that appear too small for it
The base species prefers eating children "and others too small and weak to fight back"
Cons:
Can't explain the escape scene
Probably too weak: CR7, STR 22
Epic Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonepic.htm) (SRD or ELH 181)Pros:

Have access to Wish
Very strong
Like most dragons, it likes to eat and sleep

Cons:

They don't get the kind of strength and powers needed until they are way too big for the box.
Beautiful (sp. prismatic)
They are very recognisable, and thus don't match the circus' reactions.

Fhoimoren GiantNo explanation for the escape. Weak defences.
Fiendwurm (MM2 99)strong and known for eating constantly, can't talk, can send people to the Abyss, but that explains the escape very badly if at all, and lack of limbs and gargantuan size are problematic.
Fihyr, Greater (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/Monsters.php?ID=822)too many eyes, not strong enough, not challenging enough, can't explain the escape.
Formian Myrmarch (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Formian_Myrmarch)Not strong enough to explain the tower scene
Gelatinous CubeFits none of the major scenes
General Ox (http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=1912)Sorcerer with access to 9th level spells, and STR 36. Doesn't quite match the circus scene's public reactions
Genie/Djinn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/genie.htm) (SRD or MM 114)while able to cast wish, they can talk, they are not particularly ugly, and they're nowhere near powerful enough for MitD
GeriviarNo good explanation for the Escape. Not strong enough.
Ghour (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ghour)Decently strong, but insufficient CR and too big. Being a demon, it's morality and 'father' doesn't match well MitD's.
Giant Snowman (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/gitpkick/MustHaveBeenSomeMagic.png)Large strength and high HP, but no other known powers to explain the other scenes (especially the escape).
Giant Space Hamster (http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/converted/pdf/animal/giant_space_hamster.pdf)Not strong enough, no magical powers, not ugly enough for the circus scene
Gibbering Orb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/gibberingOrb.htm) (SRD or ELH 191)Can't stomp due to lack of limbs. Shouldn't leave tracks. Too many eyes and mouths. No explanation for Escape, except far-fetched "ate someone with access to wish the day before".
Girard (Member of the Order of the Scribble)Unsurprising it can talk, wouldn't be exhibited as a circus freak, wouldn't be hunted by the SBGH, is now known to be dead.
Gloom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/gloom.htm)Fairly strong, very powerful, but has no eyes, shadow walk isn't quite good enough to explain the escape and "tall, very dark, elf-eared person with a cloak" is not exactly "I've never seen anything like it before"
GoristroHuge, and can't teleport, or explain the escape in any other way. See also Pit Fiend.
Gray Render (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grayRender.htm) (SRD or MM 138)Too many eyes, and unclear how it accounts for the escape.
GrendelOriginal text says it is immune to weapons. Unclear how it accounts for the escape scene, except if it were demon-spawn due to conversion to D&D, which is a very big stretch. Difficulty addressing its strength (enough to break benches, but not the full hall).
Grey Slaad (MM 231)can teleport people both within a plane and between planes, but so-so strength
GrootslangCannot explain the escape. Did not exist when #100 was posted
Guardinal, Leonal Not strong enough, aura of fear for evil creatures should have been seen in the comic.
Gug (CoC)(From Call of Cthulhu) Very ugly, and causes loss of sanity when looked at. Has a small chance of knowing how to teleport, but is not strong enough, particularly if young version is assumed due to size problems.
Ha-Naga (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/haNaga.htm) (SRD or ELH 195)Access to wish, and fairly strong although, being gargantuan, too big for the umbrella (when moving), and lack of limbs make several scenes difficult to explain (like pulling on the rope). Not particularly vomit-inducing. Proposing a child version reduces the strength bellow appropriate amount. Psionic powers could explain the earthquake, but not the tower scene.
Half-Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm) (SRD or XPH 200)Strong and psionic, but can talk, unclear how it accounts for circus scene and the escape.
Hellfire Wyrm (MM2 125)Dragon, and thus can't explain the circus scene properly. Too big (huge)
HephaestusGod: Immune to mind control
Hoary Hunter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hoaryHunter.htm) (SRD or ELH 197)Very strong, can plane shift, but not revolting enough to explain the circus' reactions
HollyphantNot quite strong enough, can't explain the escape, too adorably cute for the circus scene
Hunefer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hunefer.htm)Undead; due to paralysing aura can't explain the circus scene.
IllithidNot strong enough, can't explain the escape
Illithid Elder BrainHas good explanations for the Escape and Circus, but not quite enough strength for the Tower (while still having good defences). Does not have teeth or eyes. Requires a pool of water to live in.
Illurien (MM5)Female, Insufficient strength
Ilsidaur (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?66577-Creature-Catalog-new-3-5-conversions/page25&p=4025832&viewfull=1#post4025832)Demonic (difficulty explaining alignment, probably no parent), difficulty explaining the circus scene. Specific stats linked are too recent for MitD (older versions may exist, but have not been presented)
Incubus Not powerful enough, difficulty changing alignments, can't explain the circus scene
Infernal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal) (SRD or ELH 164)Immune to mind affecting spells, unclear how it accounts for the escape scene (it's greater teleport is self-only). Can animate dead, which RC claims MitD cannot.
Intellect DevourerStrength too low. No explanation for the Escape
JabberwockDifficult to gauge if it fits or not, since the jabberwock is never really described. However, being unique, it doesn't fit the comment of MitD being "one of these". D&D versions tend to be too weak, and lack teleportation.
JuiblexPros:

High strength.
High DR
Teleport without error
Appearance matches the Circus scene and there is even the fact that some people get obsessed with Juiblex and become thralls to explain the bit about beauty.
Eats everything. Yeah. Everything.
High knowledge skills that would explain the MitD knowing unexpected things. i.e. the ritual.

Cons:

Unique creature (likely, his children wouldn't have the above powers)
No reason, assuming the BGH were not confused, for it to be surprising he can speak common.
Attacks are always acidic in nature - does not match the Tower scene
Too many eyes, no teeth
Alignment issues (see section 1e)

King-Kong descendantProblem addressing strength and size at the same time. Cannot explain the escape scene.
KlickerNo explanation for the escape, didn't exist before comic #100
KlurichirSeveral versions exists: the one that are strong enough cant explain the escape, and viceversa. Demonic, so has some issues with Mit'd morality.
Kyton, Eremite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/kyton/kyton-eremite)Can't explain the escape, since it can only self-teleport. Created after strip #100
Lamassu, CelestialNot strong enough, can cast cleric spells.
LaogzedDemigod: can be mind controlled
Lava ChildrenCan't explain the circus scene (neither ugly nor particularly strange), unclear if it can explain the escape
Lethus Dragonpublication date 7 years after strip #100. Otherwise, fits the FBS rather nicely, but not the general fluff of MitD
Li Lung (Earth Dragon) (OA)Pros:
Yellow eyes
Reasonably strong, potentially challenging, and correctly sized up to young adult
Damage reduction
Earthquake AND a powerful roar
Plane Shift
Cons:
plane shift doesn't explain the escape well
Personality (sleepiness, constant desire to consume, etc) doesn't match typical li lung's description
As a young adult, it is not powerful enough
Marut (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#marut)Construct, has a vendetta against undead, embodiment of a morality plane
Nabassu (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060605a) (WotC book previews or Fiendish Codex 1)Not particularly strong, can only teleport themselves, and kill any level-1s that look at them, thus having difficulty explaining its success as a circus act.
Neh-Thalggu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/nehThalggu.htm) (SRD or ELH 206)incorporeal - meaning it has 0 STR and can't explain the punching of Miko or her horse (it could have bitten them, but not hit them)
Neo-otyugh (2e MM?)Can't explain the escape. Unclear strength (otyugh is definitely too weak). Too many eyes (3).
Neothelid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/neothelid.htm) (SRD or XPH 204)Pros:
Fairly high strength (30)
Psionic Teleport at will
Vomit-inducing, since it's a gigantic worm with tentacles
Heavy eating
Rarely communicates in a meaningful way
Its ability to Trace Teleport would explain how it knew where to send O'Chul and V
Cons:
Difficulty explaining the earthquake and the stomp, lacking legs.
Defences not that great
No eyes
Gargantuan
Nessie the Loch Ness MonsterToo big for the umbrella, can't explain the escape scene, difficulty existing in dry land
Nightmare Beast (MM2 161)Pros:

Fairly strong
spends most of its time looking for food, and then sleeping
Dimension door
Can't talk

Cons:

Not defensively impressive - Miko would not have had trouble hurting it.
Dimension door doesn't explain the escape well.
Red eyes
Everyone in the city should've been having terrible nightmares

Nightscape Battlemage (http://magiccards.info/ps/en/47.html)Can't explain the circus scene or the tower scene. Unsurprising it can talk
Oni, Go-Zu and Me-ZuSeveral varieties, none really strong enough, and with no way to explain the escape.
Onyx Worm (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20020808a)not strong enough, can't explain the escape.
Ophan AngelGood stats, but hundreds of eyes, and no good explanation for the escape.
Outsider, The (H.P. Lovecraft)undead
Paizo Golem Construct. Can't explain the escape scene or the circus scene. Created 5 years after strip #100
Phaerimm (Monsters of Faerun 70)Very, very ugly, access to wish through sorcerer levels, but not strong enough for the tower scene, and has no eyes.
Phasm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/phasm.htm)Telepathic, so surprising it can speak. Not strong enough, can't explain the escape.
Pit Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#pitFiend) (SRD or MM 57)Pros:
Strong, good defences
Highly skilled in Knowledge Arcane, -Religion, -Planes and in Spellcraft which would explain how the MitD could identify the ritual with merely a glance.
Access to Wish

Cons:

Pit Fiends probably don't have children and aren't child-like. (From Roy's Archon's words here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html), it seems OotS-verse has normal "advancement" of celestial beings. On the other hand, two demons have mentioned parents)
It is not surprising it can talk.
It can reanimate the dead
Circus scene presents two problems: demonic creatures are not difficult to recognise (in a broad sense, if not the specific type), and the reaction one would expect is fear, not vomiting.
Rich's comments in W&XPs seem to indicate that morality planes creatures can't change alignments more than slightly.

Planetar Angel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelPlanetar) (SRD or MM 11)Has cleric levels
Pooka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Púca)No good explanations for the escape or the tower, being of the trickster fairy archetype
Psammead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Children_and_It#The_Psammead)Can grant wishes, but is not strong, is too small and being damage by water is something that does not match well with MitD's life in the rainforest. Also, Psammeads cannot grant their own wishes, so it cannot explain the earthquake or the tower scene.
Qlippoth (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/qlippoth.html)Specifically, the Augnagar: explains circus and tower, but can't explain the escape. Immune to mind control.
Quaraphon Bully(MM3)Not strong enough, no explanation for the Escape, too many eyes.
Reality warper (e.g. Superman's Fifth-Dimensional Imp)Their reality revision power would explain the escape scene, but not the tower scene. A reality warper can cause anything they desire to become true, but in the tower scene, the exact opposite of MitD's desires (to hit as lightly as possible) happened.
SarrukhNot strange enough for the circus scene. Not strong enough for the Tower Scene. Not surprising it can speak.
SCP-682 (http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-682)Published in 2007, didn't exist during comic #100. Can't explain the escape (except by an undefined unrestricted ability to adapt). The personalities are very different. Arguably too powerful to be MitD.
ShadeCan't explain the escape, nor the tower scene. It only fits the circus scene if it is a shade with no light sensitivity. Don't eat, breath or age. Their lack of metabolism means they also do not emit odors. The best fitting version is also a homebrew which didn't exist when MitD was picked.
Shadow Dragon (Draconomicon 191)
Pros:
It can cast Dimension Door as a supernatural ability once per day.
Its size is Large as a young adult and adult, and Medium if it is juvenile.
It has damage resistance 5 when it becomes a young adult.
It's Shadowy and gets 9/10ths concealment from this....
Cons:
Not incredibly strong
Doesn't explain the earthquake or the escape

Shadowcloak ElderShadow Blend doesn't match MitD's instructions to stay in the shadows (other than in Xykon's tower), not quite strong enough, can't talk, can't explain the escape.
Shedu, Greater (http://dedpihto.narod.ru/games/Monsters1/MM00260.htm) (FF) Not strong enough. Unclear what its stats are in 3.5. Not surprising it can talk.
Shoggoth (CoC)Unclear if it can explain the escape, it may drive the public of the circus insane.
Shirokinukatsukami Not enough strength (20), can't explain the escape due to only self-teleporting
Siabrie (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20020817a)Insufficient strength, female, beautiful, can't account for the escape.
Slime ChildPublished after #100
Smiling MedinaHomebrewed after strip 100. Not strong enough for the tower scene.
SnarkCannot explain the escape scene, and most likely cannot explain the earthquake or tower scenes (although the descriptions are vague)
Solar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) (SRD or MM 12)Cons:

Solars don't really have children and aren't child-like.
It is not surprising it can talk.
It can reanimate the dead

Sphinx (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sphinx.htm) (SRD or MM 232)Not really strong enough; the suggested idea was a kind of rock sphinx, but that can't be found in the stat'ed lists.
Starspawn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9404200&postcount=811) (aka Son of Cthulhu)Drives people looking at him insane, thus having difficulty explaining its success as a circus act. Strength high, but not impressively so.
Stench KowWith a CR 3-4, it is not a credible threat to the order. Can't explain the escape or the tower scenes.
Sun Wukong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_wukong)Talks, no father, not part of a group, vegetarian.
Titan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) (SRD or MM 242)Pros: High Strength, mythologically, the Titan Uranus ate his children.
Cons: The only way to rescue O'Chul is by using Maze, which fits badly. It wouldn't be surprising it can talk.
Titan, Elder (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Elder_Titan)Not surprising it can talk. Can't explain the circus.
TrollNot strong enough, can't explain the escape, has difficulty explaining the circus (trolls are fairly common creatures, not something that unrecognisable).
Truly Horrid Umber Hulk (MM 248)Fairly strong, confusing gaze might explain the circus' reactions. However, doesn't have teleportation abilities, or earthquake.
Tulani EledrinToo pretty and elf-looking for the circus scene. Not quite strong enough. Can cast clerical spells.
Two-headed CyclopsTwo heads, but only one eye each, lazy & fairly ugly, but can't explain the escape and are not that strong. They can also speak, but only elven, not common.
Ulgurstasta SorcererUndead. Eats (swallows whole) bodies to produce undead, so should have been able to help RC. Gargantuan. Defences too weak to explain the Tower scene or Belkar's attack.
UltrolothDemonic (morality problems), insufficient strength & defences, can't explain the escape
Uluu ThalonghNot surprising to be found in a jungle/rainforest. Unclear if it accounts for the escape.
Umbral Blot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm)(Blackball)Construct, too weak (Str 10) for the tower scene. Can't explain the earthquake's stomp. Appearance doesn't match circus reactions.
Umpleby (1st ed FF)Can't explain the circus scene, or the escape.
UnbodiedCannot explain the escape nor the tower
Utukku (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?66577-Creature-Catalog-new-3-5-conversions/page3&p=1294154&viewfull=1#post1294154)Insufficient strength. 2nd ed version has poor defences, 3rd ed. version can't explain the escape.
Vasuthant (MM3 182)Undead. Can't explain the escape
VaarsuviusCreated for the comic. Doesn't eat meat. Not strong enough. Explanation that turns a wizard into MitD by means of the Snarl is completely unlikely and unsupported by evidence
Vermiurge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/vermiurge.htm) (SRD or ELH 226)revolting sight, but can't explain the escape, can speak and is immune to mind-affecting spells.
VelociraptorCannot explain the escape or the tower scene
Void Yai OniCan't explain the escape
Warforged (Eberron or MM3 190)Construct
Wendigo (FF 186)Very strong, fairly ugly, famously hungry creatures. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.
WharlyskLives in the rainforest. Huge. No explanation for the escape. Not strong enough
Wild ThingsCannot explain the escape
Wumpus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wumpus)Doesn't explain the escape.
YaliStrong, can psionic teleport, but cannot explain the circus scene.
Yeti Very strong, presumed ugly even though no-one ever manages to see him. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.
Xor-Yost (Planar Handbook 122)Can't explain the escape
Zodar (http://lost.spelljammer.org/ShatteredFractine/critters/monsters/zodar.html) (FF 199)Pros:
Very strong
Can cast wish once in a lifetime, and any spell three times in a lifetime
Human-sized
Invulnerable to all damage except bludgeoning explains his resistance to Belkar's and Miko's attacks.
Cons:
Does not explain the circus scene, since it basically looks like a man in a black armor
The official version of Zodar is a construct, which would discard him; there is, however, an unofficial version (http://lost.spelljammer.org/ShatteredFractine/critters/monsters/zodar.html) that retains the 2.0 version that was monstrous, and that existed before the official one.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Section 3: Continued

Section 3e: Light-Hearted Ideas
These ideas are not meant to be taken seriously, and were added to this post only because they amused me enough I wanted them recorded for posterity. Please don't read too much into them (or what they say about my sense of humour)

Inmune to blades, including scissors, but suffers from papercuts? Must be a Rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors)
The most dangerous box ever (https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2178863360/h9D2EAC6A/)
The fearsome Gazebo (http://www.brunchma.com/archives/Forum13/HTML/000133.html)HotAndCold (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=48090) explained (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7390002&postcount=1344):

A gazebo is obviously a powerful monster, devouring the story's PC without any chance of rebuttal.
It takes no damage from a +3 arrow, just as MitD apparently takes no damage from Miko's or Belkar's attacks.
Would you recognize a gazebo's tracks?
Or expect to find one in a jungle and even speaking in Common, for that matter?
It is, of course, a juvenile gazebo, explaining its roughly Medium size, rather than its being large enough for, y'know, people to hang out in it.
I... guess he could be a particularly ugly gazebo? Although technically speaking, the gazebo's never actually described in the story beyond its dimensions, color, and the pointiness of its top. So I guess one could argue the gazebo's horrific appearance.
The description states that the PC "awakened" the gazebo, implying that it was sleeping. Perhaps it had recently used one of its mighty and tiring abilities!

A FanboyTruly grotesque creatures, Fanboys have been known to consume vast quantities of whatever they get their hands on (including mouldy cheeseburgers), while skulking in the darkness of their 'boxes'. When inserted into fantasy fiction, they often wield great quantities of inexplicable power (Mary Sue Syndrome) and have difficulty remembering minor plot details (Gate? What gate?) They are truly the most fearsome creature any Creator can face, and yet are beautiful in that a Creator would be nothing without them. And of course, the monstrous and twisted exterior hides an innocence ill-befitting a horrendous beast, and a niceness of character little understood by those around, often causing them to be bullied by lesser souls in the vicinity.

We are all MitD in the quiet corners of our souls.
Grey_Wolf_c
1) How did Grey_Wolf_c punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
- She suggested a Tarrasque should be added, and her horse said Snarl Jr. An adrenaline-fueled rage took over.
2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt Grey_Wolf_c ?
- Maintaining these threads has made him impervious to pain.
3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize Grey_Wolf_c ?
- Keeping up with the thread means he doesn't have time to keep up his appearance so looks like a human-sasquatch mix wearing clothing.
4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing Grey_Wolf_c ?
- No time to shower either.
5) How did Grey_Wolf_c teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?
- Well, you got me there.





Section 4: Thread Information

Section 4a: Thread Rules
This is a curated thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12577293&postcount=2), and as such obeys the following rules:

CuratorI, Grey Wolf, am the curator of the thread.
Responsibilities:

Maintain the thread
Remember arguments and canon
Answer polite questions about MitD and the thread


What I can't do

I have no official authority
I am not a moderator
I cannot ban discussion of issues I consider settled
I cannot prevent certain topics from being discussed (but I can publicly withdraw from them); however, see also section on Inappropriate Topics below
I cannot prevent any given poster from participating (but can Ignore them)
I cannot make executive decisions on what is or is not included in the first post outside the guidelines stated in this post.


Adding information to the first post
To add something to the first post needs two positive votes to do so. "Positive votes" means two more people in favour of the idea than against it.

In normal operation, that essentially means convincing me to add it. The original proponent and me make the 2 votes, assuming no-one objects. If I disagree, the proponent will then need two other posters to agree with him/her (assuming no-one else but me disagrees). And so on: if 3 people are opposed, five need to be in favour, etc.

Why not simple majority? Because that is perilously close to a draw. With only one vote up or down, someone might come in a day later and vote against the idea would mean that we open the door to having to continually add and remove things from the first post - I want to prevent that as much as possible. This way, a vote against the change coming after the change still leaves a simple majority in favour of it (if would take two votes against the change after the fact for it to be reverted).

The only exception to the rule is the refreshes. When I do a refresh of the first post (usually at the end of every page divisible by 10), I will not require to get anyone to agree with me; instead, I will publish a list of all changes as I make them, and when it is over, two objections will be enough to remove a change. For those doing the math at home, that is only one positive vote to remove it (I'd naturally be opposed, since I just added it), but since it got added only with one vote (mine), it's fair to remove it also with only one vote.

For major reworking of the first post, such as the issue with the definition of FBS, removing or adding whole sections, etc, it will need to be put to general vote. To request the voting to happen, you need the normal +2 votes.

Inappropriate Topics
The following topics are considered by consensus inappropriate for the thread. Note that no mod has weighted on either, so the easiest way forward if you want to discuss them is to first get mod approval:

Intellectual Property ("copyrighted") creatures not belonging to WotC. Due to section "Inappropriate Topics", subsection "Professional Advice" of board rules, discussion of laws is verboten in this forum. Since the biggest objection to copyrighted creatures is whether or not Rich would be legally allowed to use them, every such creature proposed quickly devolved into a discussion of applicable laws, which is not allowed. For the purposes of this thread, any creature created after Mickey Mouse (1923) is currently under copyright in the US.
Please also see this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18959523&postcount=2) explaining the rationale behind the blankiet ban on all copyright and copyright discussion, and especially the section on fair use.
MitD's personal alignment: not that of his species, but his personally. Consensus is that his alignment cannot be tied to that of his species (see section 1e). It is a separate enough topic that it should have its own thread. If V can have a thread for gender and a separate one for alignment, MitD can have one for his species (this one) and a separate one for his alignment. At least until the mods say otherwise.

Section 4b: Voting Rules
Major changes to the first post may be put to consensus vote. In those cases, the following rules will be followed:

Semi-public vote: votes will be PM'ed to me, the curator, to prevent the thread from being spammed by multiple short "vote for X" posts. I will compile all votes in the original voting post for verification and record keeping. To prevent fraud, please be ready to reaffirm your vote if someone else PMs you to ask about it.
Multiple votes per person: you can vote for more than one option. Do so in order of preference.
Vote counting: will not be first past the post; instead, alternative vote system (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE) will be used.
Vote length: Until a day passes without anyone else voting.
Voting is binding: if you vote for extra work, be prepared to do the extra work. If extra work is voted for, but no-one does it, the option will be discarded and runner-up will be done instead.
Voting options: If you feel the options are not to your liking, you can vote for a new option by describing it in your post. Give it a letter for ease of voting (and pithy name, if you can think of one).
Changing Votes: You can change your vote at any time before the end of the voting.


Section 4c: FAQ

Do I have to read all of the first post before jumping in?No, but you should exercise good sense and read the sections most likely to be related to what you are about to post.

If you want to propose a creature, scan the proposed creatures list to see if it is already there, and read both section 3a (to see how your idea stacks up against the current "best of the crop") and the frequently proposed (in case your idea is already there - in this last case, you need to address all the cons listed in your first post).

If you want to propose an explanation for a MitD characteristic, check section 2 for it, and see what the general consensus of the thread for the characteristic is. If it is a scene, rather than a characteristic, you may have read the whole section to see where that scene is involved.

For other situations, reading section 4 and this FAQ is a good start. If in doubt, you can ask me, the curator, for guidance to the best sections to read.
When is the first post updated?Updates of details that strike me as important, typos, small corrections and other quick things can happen at any time. But, time permitting, every ten pages (at the end of page 10, 20, 30 & 40) I do "first post refreshes" where I add all new proposed ideas, and I may add entire new sections. See rules for the refreshes in section 4a.
When is a proposal added to the first post?Proposals are added during first post refreshes (every 10 pages, unless I am very busy). For a proposal to be added, it needs to meet the following:

Be minimally defended. If just the name is mentioned, it won't get added
Not meant as a joke. If it was meant as one, it will only be added if I find it exceptionally funny (or with two positive votes).
Not retracted by the author. If the author retracts it and no-one else is in favour, it won't get added.

Why is my idea not a FBS?Probably because it doesn't meet the requirements which by current consensus are:
1) Has a plausible explanation for the Escape
2) Has a plausible explanation for the Tower (both his attack and his defence)
3) Has a plausible explanation for the Circus (both his act, and the reactions)
4) Isn't one of the impossible categories (unless it is an exception)
5) Existed before strip #100 in a form accessible to Rich.
6) Size no bigger than Huge ("fits in the box")
7) Is vulnerable to mind-affecting effects (SoD)
Wouldn't a non-D&D copyrighted creature be legal under fair use or parody?A detailed answer would count as legal advice, and can't therefore be further discussed (see Section 4a - Inappropriate topics). Thread consensus is that neither fair use nor parody are applicable to MitD, but agree or disagree, discussion of IP non-D&D monsters is not allowed in this thread per the board rules.
Can't a non-D&D copyrighted creature be discussed, ignoring the legal status and only discussing its pros and cons?In theory, yes, but in practice the biggest con is its legal status, especially if the creature is a half-decent fit. The fact of the matter is that in practice, any non-D&D IP creature quickly descends into a legal discussion.
Isn't every idea guessable? I mean, if someone just guessed it?"Guess" has two meanings. One is "random chance", like throwing a dart at a board. The other is "deduce". Rich intended the second one, as he clarified when he says "I trust that someone will figure it out eventually". He is dropping clues, and excepts us to be able to eventually figure it out, presumably once we have all the clues.
Since you haven't found the solution yet, is it possible you are doing something wrong?Not necessarily. Ideas come to this thread slowly. For example, our current best fits were not suggested until late in the second thread and early third, and the explanations for the escape only included the stray dimensional lock as of start of the fifth thread. Besides, there is no way to know if we have found the solution. Balloons won't fall from the ceiling the moment someone says the correct species; for all we know, we have already found the creature Rich thought of.
Haven't you checked all D&D creatures by now?Not even close. There are literally thousand of official creatures, and beyond counting for third-party creatures published in all manner splatbooks. To illustrate just how deep the search space goes, consider that Crusher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13164767&postcount=1078), in the space of an afternoon, checked one new source and found 5 new better-than-average candidates, and then repeated (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14497821&postcount=279) the feat a few pages later. There remains a lot of material to explore.
Does MitD have to be a D&D creature?No, not at all. Rich has never said that MitD is a D&D creature, only that, whatever he is, he didn't make his species up.
Does MitD have to be a 3.5 D&D creature?If he was updated to 3.5, yes, since conversion is automatic. But if he was never updated, he could be a 1st Ed or 2ed creature (although the latter would need a reason why he wasn't trapped in Dorukan's Dungeon with the rest of never-updated creatures).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

(Post reserved for future use)

[Savannah]

Complete list of MitD strips

Key:
Purple = strips prior to Rich knowing what the MitD is (ends "around strip # 100")
Italics = MitD mentioned but does not appear


Start of Darkness



Rainforest, 29 years ago
Page 49 MitD captured
Page 50 SBGH surprised MitD can talk, is in this part of the world

Circus (3 years ago)
Page 83 MitD likes stew, is about to be revealed
Page 84 CIRCUS SCENE. It's hard for MitD to be looked at by a lot of people at once
Page 85 MitD knows Right-Eye's family, playing with toys
Page 88 MitD meets Redcloak, Redcloak says he could escape if he wanted to
Page 89 Redcloak is going to free MitD
Page 90-95 Breaking MitD out of the circus
Page 96 Xykon meets MitD, :xykon:: "You sure are one ugly sumbitch", MitD can be mind-controlled

Taking Dungeon of Dorukan (6 months ago)
Page 100-101,
103, 105,
107, 109 MitD given control of zombies to attack tower, can't remember what to do, gets tacos instead
Page 110 MitD being carried into dungeon





Dungeon Crawlin' Fools



Introductions
23 Meanwhile... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0023.html)
MitD's first appearance, he wants out of the shadows


37 Evil, But Cost-Effective (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html)
Watching Roy set off the trapped door


47 But is it High Definition? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0047.html)
Team Evil scrying on Order of the Stick/Linear Guild, MitD wants to watch Belkar and Yikyik fighting


82 Beats Pay-Per-View (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0082.html)
Eating popcorn and watching Durkon and Hilgya have sex. MitD is (currently) in magical darkness


The Gates

85b A High Turnover Career
Panel 8: Xykon says MitD whines a lot


95 Dead Men Tell Tales (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html)
Panel 3: Redcloak says MitD is attracting more demon-roaches


96 Gate? What Gate? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html)
MitD can't see/doesn't recognize as gate/instantly forgets ginormous gate.


97 Evil Plans (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0097.html)
Joining in a hearty evil villain laugh.


Fighting the Order

103 Practice Makes Perfect (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0103.html)
MitD practicing for his big reveal


105 Hordes of Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0105.html)
MitD waiting behind the throne


106 A Sure Bet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0106.html)
Waiting, :mitd:: "Wait, what gate?"


109 Tensions Rise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0109.html)
Still waiting

110 Revenge is Best Served Really Cold (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html)
Ditto


113 Memories, Like the Edges of My Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html)
Ditto


114 Exciting Climax (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html)
MitD about to jump out of the shadows


117 Delayed Gratification (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0117.html)
Wants to kill and eat the Order


120 The End of the Beginning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html)
Fleeing through tunnel with Redcloak





No Cure for the Paladin Blues


Recap

??
MitD appears briefly in Elan's finger puppet recap of the events of the previous book


??
MitD is given a brief introduction on the Cast of Characters


Recruiting the hobgoblins
[/tr]

147 The Light at the End of the Tunnel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0147.html)
MitD wants to hold Xykon's phylacetry but can't because he might break it. Excited to get out of the shadows. Introduction of pink umbrella.


148 Hobgoblins and You (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html)
Grumbling about umbrella


149 Cultural Differences (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html)
Watching Redcloak become hobgoblin supreme leader.


Retaking Xykon's tower
[/tr]

190 A Lesson in Resource Management (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0190.html)
MitD respects how Redcloak isn't going to send hobgoblins to their deaths, despite hating them


191 Dungeon Real Estate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0191.html)
MitD scared to go into Xykon's old tower, :xykon:"there's nothing in there any scarier than you - Correction: any scarier than you SHOULD be."


192 Everything Sits Better on a Ritz (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html)
Outside Xykon's tower


194 You Light Up My Life (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0194.html)
MitD wants lantern archons to hit him with their light attacks


194a Quit Dragon My Heart Around
Xykon and Redcloak can't see MitD - he's permanently shrouded in magical darkness according to Redcloak


194b Post-Dragon
Reading a pamphlet from the forces of good


195 Book Nook (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0195.html)
Watching while Redcloak and Xykon search for Serini's diary


196 The Diary (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html)
Plot exposition for Xykon's plan, :mitd: "What "gate" do you guys keep talking about?"


Preparing to march
[/tr]

299 A Calling Missed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0299.html)
MitD wants to help, according to Redcloack the only way he can help zombify monsters is to volunteer as raw materials or gain five levels in cleric overnight




War and XPs



Recap & Bonus


??
MitD is mentioned on the Cast of Characters page


??
MitD mentioned in passing in Vaarsuvius' plot recap


Round 4 commentary bonus cartoon
MitD is too tall to be a kobold


Marching


331 For the Future (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)
MitD marching with the hobgoblins


The Tower


368 All Along the Watchtower (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0368.html)
MitD says he eats to fill the loneliness


369 Fight! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html)
Cheering Redcloak against Miko


371 The Road to Heck (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html)
Watching Redcloak, Xykon and Miko talk


373 Caged (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0373.html)
MitD is waiting for Miko after she escapes


374 Black and Blue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html)
TOWER SCENE, Miko's attacks just tickle MitD, who can hit the lightest competition


375 Undeliverable (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html)
MitD eats the letter Miko was carrying, gets papercut on his tongue


376 All Too Easy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html)
Xykon left MitD to guard Miko so that she would be sure to escape


Preparing the Attack


414 Noble is Goodble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html)
MitD is playing yahtzee with Xykon and Redcloak


415 Idiot Box (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0415.html)
Watching TeeVo with Xykon and Redcloak, :mitd:: "Gate?"


415a Hey, What's Wrong with Crayons?
MitD drew tactical plan, wants to smash through Azure City walls


Battle of Azure City
[/td]
[/tr]

422 March to War (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html)
MitD shocked that Redcloak is bossing "Xykon" around


426 Three of a Kind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0426.html)
Hanging out in the back with Redcloak and "Xykon", doesn't understand why there are three "Xykons"


428 It Takes a Thief (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0428.html)
Still hanging out in the back


431 My Three Xykons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html)
MitD still doesn't get the multiple Xykons, even after Redcloak explains it


447 Guarding the Sapphire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0447.html)
In the back with Redcloak


450 Wands Are for Suckers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0450.html)
MitD visible as tiny dot in back with Redcloak


451 Change of Direction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html)
Wants to devour someone and get a new pet to ride


463 Shattered (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html)
Having a tea party when O-Chul drops in


474 The Body Snatcher (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html)
MitD having a tea party with O-Chul and Roy's corpse; Belkar tracking MitD :belkar:: tracks are weird, definitely not hobgoblin or undead Roy


475 Crashing the Party (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html)
Belkar and Haley try to take O-Chul and Roy's corpse back from MitD; MitD yells loud enough to shake the ground and blow hair/cloaks back, is excited to eat moldy cheeseburgers, thinks he's seen Haley and Belkar somewhere before


476 I Don't Suppose You Have Any Nutmeg? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0476.html)
MitD remembers he was supposed to devour Haley and Belkar


477 Shock and Awwwwww (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html)
MitD can't decide if he should devour Haley and Belkar now, doesn't even notice a full attack from Belkar, gives a tiny stomp and creates a massive earthquake (:mitd:: "Wow! I didn't know I could do that!!") after which he is suddenly tired


484 At the End of the Day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html)
[td]MitD dragging O-Chul into Azure City



Don't Split the Party

[tr]
Introduction


??
MitD appears on Cast of Characters page


Team Evil and O'Chul


541 He's a Gamblin' Thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html)
MitD betting on O'Chul escaping and living happily ever after with monopoly money


543 Shhh! Principal's Coming! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html)
MidD doesn't understand why hoping really hard didn't save O'Chul


549 Grueling Ordeal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html)
MitD shares stew with O'Chul, says he won't eat babies, wants to start a secret club that doesn't allow girls


550 +1 BFF (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html)
MitD thinks Xykon and Redcloak are his friends, wants to play a game, and O'Chul says he's learning go very quickly


V's Attack


651 Two Eyes in the Dark (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html)
MitD and O'Chul playing go, MitD remembers his dad, doesn't know what species he is


654 Cages (Steel and Otherwise) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0654.html)
Calls O'Chul by his real name the first time


658 A Bird in Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0658.html)
Rooting for O'Chul to escape


661 The Path of Least Expectation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html)
Escape


662 The Price is Right (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html)
MitD sleeping




Blood Runs in the Family


Recap

??
Blackwing says MitD teleported V and O-Chul away from Xykon.

Back in Azure CityGobbotopia


699 Escape Clause (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html)
MitD trying and failing to repeat his "escape" trick on a hobgoblin.


700 They Would Likely Both Disagree With That Sentiment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)
Identified Tsukiko's scroll as half a magic ritual.


701 Curtains for You (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html)
MitD opens the curtains for Redcloak -- pushing is easier than pulling.


702 One for the History Books (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html)
MitD standing in the background, holding the rope.


703 Meet the New Boss (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0703.html)
MitD is reading the Gobbotopia history book.


704 Dead Men Give No Speeches (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html)
MitD hopes that "Prime Minister" = in charge of prime rib.


708b
MitD visits the celebration (clowns and funnel cakes) and talks his way past the guards to get back home.


709 No Scry Zone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html)
Wants Tsukiko to scry for O'Chul, but she can't.


Phylactery found

828 A Study in Viridian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html)
Redcloak says MitD was looking for Teevo remote.


831 Two of a Kind Beats King High (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html)
MitD warns Redcloak that Xykon is angry.


832 Loose Ends (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0832.html)
Shocked that Redcloak murdered Tsukiko.


833 Villainy Afoot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html)
MitD sad about Tsukiko's death. Knows Astral Plane is silvery and weightless, but can't remember going there.


Girard's Gate

899 Prophecy Fulfilled (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0899.html)
MitD arrives at the pyramid with Xykon and Redcloak.


900 Hole on the Middle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html)
MitD survived the gate explosion, doesn't know what a pelvis is.


901 Friend of a Friend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html)
MitD knows OotS are O-Chul's friends and doesn't want them killed, so he talks Xykon and Redcloak into not attacking the OotS and just going to Kraagor's gate.





Online strips



1036 Sound, But in This Case Inaccurate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1036.html)
MitD has a new umbrella







Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales


Bonus Strips

Commentary page for Edition Wars
MitD wonders if 4e Xykon's necromantic aura affects him and if he's been updated

(This is a personal project that pre-dates my becoming a mod. It is still entirely my personal project.)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Yay, new thread! I mentioned this is in the last thread, but since we've opened this one I'll mention it again. There is a broken table in 1e. It should look something like this, I think:


Lawful Evil: Baatezu/Devils
Lawful Neutral: Formians, Inevitables, Modrons
Lawful Good: Archons


Neutral Evil: Yugoloths/Daemons
True Neutral: Rilmani
Neutral Good: Guardinals


Chaotic Evil: Tanar'ri/Demons
Chaotic Neutral: Slaadi
Chaotic Good: Eladrin

[ReaderAt2046]

Woot! New thread!

On another note, the SSDT scene could be read to indicate that MITD has some negative energy resistance, which would probably become resistance to necrotic damage (and hence Xykon's necromantic aura) in 4E.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Woot! New thread!

On another note, the SSDT scene could be read to indicate that MITD has some negative energy resistance, which would probably become resistance to necrotic damage (and hence Xykon's necromantic aura) in 4E.

Indeed it could, and people have chosen to read it such, IIRC. However, it could also be read that he doesn't understand how resistances and/or auras work in 4E, which makes for a better joke (in that it doesn't require you to know what MitD is to get the joke), and as a general riff on the fact that MitD is clueless about his own species (no joke goes as far as a well done running joke!). I hesitate to read too much into punchline revelations, especially very vague ones like this one.

GW

[Quartz]

There's a typo in the Appearance section:


It has been suggested it could be because in 1st edition, an evil creature with CHA 1 had the same bonus as a good one with CHA 19

That should be -1, and it went all the way to -6 (=CHA 24). And you should note that the effect is to evil creatures only.

[137beth]

There was a (IMO probably inaccurate) theory just posted in the old MitD VI thread:


Rich is secretly laughing at all of you. Has been for years.

1: Monster that Rich didn't make up, but expects someone else to guess.

2: Monster that Rich planned on after strip #100.

Easy! The monster will be made-up by someone guessing what it is.:smallbiggrin:

Yeah, I know there are holes in this, but it's hilarious.

[Throknor]

There was a (IMO probably inaccurate) theory just posted in the old MitD VI thread:

That's not a theory; theories have references and a logical path to debate. All that was was some baseless statements from someone who couldn't even be bothered to realize they were in an old thread. That's a troll, intended to stir up arguments, and not worthy of much direct discussion.

[Skyraider]

My notion:

MITD is a clown (possibly mime) or clown version of some creature.

1) How did a clown punch Miko and her horse through a wall?

Rule of funny. A clown is able to do anything that's funny in a given context.

2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt a clown?

Same as above with regard to vulnerabilities. Rule of funny also explains how a paper cut is possible given MITD's apparent invulnerability in other situations.

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize a clown?

Well, a wizard spends lots of years studying and wouldn't have much time to visit the circus.

More realistically, it might just be that the wizard hadn't seen a clown version of (whatever the particular creature is).

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing a clown?

I'm guessing it's not just the clown-ness (although some do find them repulsive) but the juxtaposition of "clown" and some kind of creature that doesn't go along well with "clown". Fits with the circus setting. Fits with the "felt funny" comment, and "beautiful" could be a reference to the bright colors of costume and face paint. A "feral" clown would not have received training, and would not know it was supposed to do anything in its act.

5) How did the clown teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

See #1

Childish behavior: totally fits.

Hunters: "clown" fits with speaking being unusual, and with it being unexpected in a rainforest.

Go board: head at upper left, feet at lower right, looks a bit like a figure hitting itself in the head with a hammer: slapstick clown behavior.

Umbrella: a cute umbrella is a fairly standard clown prop.

Weird tracks: floppy clown shoes

Bozo: Xykon did once call the MITD one.

Fine line: might refer to the fact that Rich didn't invent clowns or (creature) but originated the combination clown-creature. Or (this is a stretch) might allude to a clown-on-a-tightrope act.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The circus had clowns, and MitD was not part of their group.

GW

[Skyraider]

The circus had clowns, and MitD was not part of their group.

GW

I haven't read "Start" yet, so I'm at a disadvantage, but if MITD is a clown-creature or Tarzan-like "raised in the wild" clown, it would make sense that he would be separate from the troupe of "regular" clowns.

My general sense is that no "scary" payoff could possibly satisfy the buildup, but a "funny" payoff might just do it.

[Bulldog Psion]

Heh, nice title. :smallcool:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

My notion:

MITD is a clown (possibly mime) or clown version of some creature.

1) How did a clown punch Miko and her horse through a wall?

Rule of funny. A clown is able to do anything that's funny in a given context.

2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt a clown?

Same as above with regard to vulnerabilities. Rule of funny also explains how a paper cut is possible given MITD's apparent invulnerability in other situations.

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize a clown?

Well, a wizard spends lots of years studying and wouldn't have much time to visit the circus.

More realistically, it might just be that the wizard hadn't seen a clown version of (whatever the particular creature is).

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing a clown?

I'm guessing it's not just the clown-ness (although some do find them repulsive) but the juxtaposition of "clown" and some kind of creature that doesn't go along well with "clown". Fits with the circus setting. Fits with the "felt funny" comment, and "beautiful" could be a reference to the bright colors of costume and face paint. A "feral" clown would not have received training, and would not know it was supposed to do anything in its act.

5) How did the clown teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?

See #1

Childish behavior: totally fits.

Hunters: "clown" fits with speaking being unusual, and with it being unexpected in a rainforest.

Go board: head at upper left, feet at lower right, looks a bit like a figure hitting itself in the head with a hammer: slapstick clown behavior.

Umbrella: a cute umbrella is a fairly standard clown prop.

Weird tracks: floppy clown shoes

Bozo: Xykon did once call the MITD one.

Fine line: might refer to the fact that Rich didn't invent clowns or (creature) but originated the combination clown-creature. Or (this is a stretch) might allude to a clown-on-a-tightrope act.

A couple of things: 1) This relies a lot on Rule of Funny, too much for my taste. Rule of Funny generally depends on something being allowed because it is funny, even if unrealistic. However, I don't really see what's funny about the MitD teleporting Vaarsuvius and O-Chul away. 2) What you seem to have proposed here is a theoretical Clown template that would alter the base creatures into a clown. It's an amusing idea, but it doesn't get any closer to telling us what the creature is. In fact, the possibilities are widened.

[ChristianSt]

I haven't read "Start" yet, so I'm at a disadvantage, but if MITD is a clown-creature or Tarzan-like "raised in the wild" clown, it would make sense that he would be separate from the troupe of "regular" clowns.

My general sense is that no "scary" payoff could possibly satisfy the buildup, but a "funny" payoff might just do it.

I don't really know, but I don't even really even understand what you actually mean with your clown proposal.

If I understand you correctly, you treat clown sorta like a template applied to something, with clown having access to all sorts of shenanigans that can explain the major scenes*.

If that is the case - how does this fit the "someone will figure it out" we have from Rich? Just applying clown to any random base creature is not something I would say can be figured out - because from what you say there aren't any clues left that would allow to figure that base creature out. [Also it has the same problems like any template stacking.]



* Though I even can't understand how "rule of funny" should be applied to the escape - there is nothing funny about that scene.

[Reddish Mage]

I haven't read "Start" yet, so I'm at a disadvantage, but if MITD is a clown-creature or Tarzan-like "raised in the wild" clown, it would make sense that he would be separate from the troupe of "regular" clowns.

My general sense is that no "scary" payoff could possibly satisfy the buildup, but a "funny" payoff might just do it.

I like the concern about what sort of "payoff" we can expect when the MitD is finally revealed, and that it would be a "funny" rather than a "scary" payoffs. However, I think a clown is way too far out. I'd like to see a D&D solution preferably or something noticeable fantasy.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I like the concern about what sort of "payoff" we can expect when the MitD is finally revealed, and that it would be a "funny" rather than a "scary" payoffs. However, I think a clown is way too far out. I'd like to see a D&D solution preferably or something noticeable fantasy.

I, on the other hand, have never understood why so many readers expect a payoff at all. MitD is not a central mystery and he is no major antagonist: he is the evil team's bumbling assistant comic relief. We know Rich wrote himself into a figurative corner with MitD, because he has told us as much: he had already established that MitD was being kept in the darkness due to Xykon's drama sense. When Rich crafted the plot, he decided to run with the idea of MitD, and make it into a guessing game, but neither of those things require a payoff other than "did you figure it out?".

Besides, it is a barren line of inquiry. Person X wants a funny reveal. Person Y wants a famous reveal. Person Z wants an impressive reveal (we've had multiples examples of each of those, FWIW). Since X, Y and Z are not Rich, who of them is right, if any, is unknowable, unless Rich tells us. Until such time as Rich does say that MitD's reveal will be a joke, basing any argument on what MitD is on such sentiment is at best a sideline to the actual reasoning.

"Clown" does not fit the clues provided - the clown we have seen do not have teleportation powers, or immunity to attack, particularly when there is nothing funny about the scene in which it happens. In OotS, they do have the ability to fit many into a single small vehicle, but other than maybe explaining how he fits under the umbrella, that ability cannot be applied to MitD. Tarzan-like "raised in the wild" clown is not a stereotype I recognise, and in any case like ChristianSt and Jaxzan pointed out, it does not answer the question of what MitD is, since like accountant or warrior, it is not a species, but a profession.

Grey Wolf

[SavageWombat]

Sounds more like a Toon than a clown to me.

Someone try knocking "shave-and-a-haircut" on the box and see what happens.

[Targ Collective]

Hrm. The variety of responses to the MITD's appearance suggest to me that it looks different to different people. Thoughts?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Hrm. The variety of responses to the MITD's appearance suggest to me that it looks different to different people. Thoughts?

This is behind the suggestions of the boggart (Harry Potter's) and the Dream Larva. It is also the reson behind one of the reasonings explained in Section 1h.

IMnpHO, it lacks support. Everyone, by and large, reacts in similar enough ways, other than those used to his appearance.

Grey Wolf

[Bongos]

I probably missed the discussion somewhere, and I couldn't find it in the first posts...

But what of MiTD's comments regarding the astral plane? He knew what it was and described it, wouldn't this suggest he's possibly been there before? Or at least somewhere along the way learned about it somehow and then forgotten about until reminded,



...and why is it he's so forgetful of his past and his self? Sometimes it seems like his ignorance and stupidity is a purposeful act on his part...

[b_jonas]

I probably missed the discussion somewhere, and I couldn't find it in the first posts...

But what of MiTD's comments regarding the astral plane? He knew what it was and described it, wouldn't this suggest he's possibly been there before? Or at least somewhere along the way learned about it somehow and then forgotten about until reminded,


This one is mentioned in the first posts, under Section 2c: Other Characteristics, Connection to the Astral Plane. I for one have the opinion that the MitD's comments about the astral plane don't tell us anything. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293047-MitD&p=17174110&highlight=astral#post17174110)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

...and why is it he's so forgetful of his past and his self? Sometimes it seems like his ignorance and stupidity is a purposeful act on his part...

I believe the common theory is that he doesn't really apply himself and is willing to let others think for him. This probably also applies to his memory as well.

[Crusher]

Tarzan-like "raised in the wild" clown is not a stereotype I recognise, and in any case like ChristianSt and Jaxzan pointed out, it does not answer the question of what MitD is, since like accountant or warrior, it is not a species, but a profession.

Grey Wolf

While I agree that its not really a good fit for MitD, I, for one, am a huge fan of the concept of a Tarzan-like clown. He was raised by... a family of monkeys perhaps? Swinging through the jungle on vines, making giant shoes out of palm fronds, squirting tigers in the face with coconut milk from his fake flower. Its a mental picture I enjoy greatly.

[Theory]

I think the fact that it is unusual for MitD to be able to talk to be a indication of a reasonable modification, a single template or spell rather than a hoard of them. As an alternative to the lampshade explanation, it might be a solid clue to ways Rich modified an otherwise mundane creature.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken
Awaken has caught my attention. It wouldn't work for a plant in this case, but an awakened animal?
Of course someone would have to have cast the spell on MitD, possibly while in or about to pass through the Astral Plane, before abandoning the the newly awakened creature in the rain forest for the hunters to find.

It would be poignant if that caster were one of the Order of the Scribble, perhaps creating it as a gift for another member? Though that possibly conflicts with the circus reaction, as it would take a special taste to appreciate. Perhaps he was to be part of Serini Toormuck's gate guardians instead.

Awakened wouldn't explain everything, but it would cover it's lack of accurate knowledge past a certain point. If a caster felt the need to awaken the creature in the first place, might that suggest other permanent modification spells or templates that would be accessible in this case?

If there are solid clues, then it might be reasonable to "guess" (i prefer hypothesize for clarity) what modifications were used.

[Shale]

While I agree that its not really a good fit for MitD, I, for one, am a huge fan of the concept of a Tarzan-like clown. He was raised by... a family of monkeys perhaps? Swinging through the jungle on vines, making giant shoes out of palm fronds, squirting tigers in the face with coconut milk from his fake flower. Its a mental picture I enjoy greatly.

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, novel, and/or webcomic.

[rweird]

Awaken is a rather poor choice, it can explain talking and strength, possibly odor, though it can't explain the Escape, or not being hurt by Milko's weapons. In addition, a talking animal, while reasonable to appear in a circus, wouldn't exactly evoke the reaction. An Awakened animal/plant, I could buy as the MitD, but further things to explain the other scenes doesn't seem all that guessable.

[Theory]

Awaken is a rather poor choice, it can explain talking and strength, possibly odor, though it can't explain the Escape, or not being hurt by Milko's weapons. In addition, a talking animal, while reasonable to appear in a circus, wouldn't exactly evoke the reaction. An Awakened animal/plant, I could buy as the MitD, but further things to explain the other scenes doesn't seem all that guessable.

At this point, I'd have to agree.

Still, I wonder if Serini Toormuck's monster search for "the strongest" monsters might still be related. It seems like the OotScribble have had a hand in most large plot elements, and it would and a nice bit of "full circle" to the reveal. In that spirit, it may be worthwhile to see if there are possible clues that are not obviously related to the MitD, but possibly to time frame of his origins.

Shot it the dark, to be sure, but it seems like we really need more information. Granted, that information may or may not exist in print at the present.

[DaggerPen]

I've seen theories that another of the MitD species will turn up at Kraagor's Gate, with the two prevailing variations being that it'll be MitD's father and that it'll be a girl member of said species.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I've seen theories that another of the MitD species will turn up at Kraagor's Gate, with the two prevailing variations being that it'll be MitD's father and that it'll be a girl member of said species.

That's an interesting theory. I think that it could be pretty likely too. After all, if you go through the trouble of defending your gate with the strongest creatures, then you should probably include whatever the MitD is. The part about it being his father strikes me as less likely, but a girl might appear.

[Throknor]

That's an interesting theory. I think that it could be pretty likely too. After all, if you go through the trouble of defending your gate with the strongest creatures, then you should probably include whatever the MitD is. The part about it being his father strikes me as less likely, but a girl might appear.

Simply having another of the same species would be enough to start an identity crisis with the MITD without needing to throw in a family or potential attraction. But how sentient would Sirini use? I read it as she would use more traditionally 'dumb' creatures that would be content to just sit around and attack anyone that invaded their lairs. So, for example, a dragon would be out - an evil one might use the gate, and a good one probably couldn't be talked into mere guard duty. While he did knock her about the first thing MITD did was just talked to Miko. If she'd countered his 'hit softest' suggestion with Monopoly he probably would have happily started playing.

Not sure that's coming through, but what I'm trying to say is if his intelligence and enjoyment of sunlight is natural and not a template then I couldn't see any of his species hanging in a dungeon for decades on the off chance someone might wander in. Unless he also normally sleeps for decades at a time and wouldn't get bored.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Simply having another of the same species would be enough to start an identity crisis with the MITD without needing to throw in a family or potential attraction. But how sentient would Sirini use? I read it as she would use more traditionally 'dumb' creatures that would be content to just sit around and attack anyone that invaded their lairs. So, for example, a dragon would be out - an evil one might use the gate, and a good one probably couldn't be talked into mere guard duty. While he did knock her about the first thing MITD did was just talked to Miko. If she'd countered his 'hit softest' suggestion with Monopoly he probably would have happily started playing.

Not sure that's coming through, but what I'm trying to say is if his intelligence and enjoyment of sunlight is natural and not a template then I couldn't see any of his species hanging in a dungeon for decades on the off chance someone might wander in. Unless he also normally sleeps for decades at a time and wouldn't get bored.
I think that some of that characteristics that the MitD has are not what other members of his species would. It may also be possible that Serini has set up a habitat that a creature like the MitD would be happy to exits in, whatever his natural habitat is.

[Emanick]

But how sentient would Sirini use? I read it as she would use more traditionally 'dumb' creatures that would be content to just sit around and attack anyone that invaded their lairs. So, for example, a dragon would be out - an evil one might use the gate, and a good one probably couldn't be talked into mere guard duty.

I wouldn't necessarily rule out dragons. I can see Serini, say, putting in traps that would Call a dragon in to fight any intruders. I could see plenty of Good dragons agreeing to that kind of a setup, and maybe some Evil ones as well (for the right price).

[lothos]

I've seen theories that another of the MitD species will turn up at Kraagor's Gate, with the two prevailing variations being that it'll be MitD's father and that it'll be a girl member of said species.

I'm not certain if I was the first to propose it, but I've held that theory since February 2009. I don't know how to link to my specific post, but it's on this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?102804-MitD-theories/page2), about 2/3 the way down. I used to be able to do it before the forum search was removed, but I managed to find the page at least through google.

By the way - love the new thread name. I haven't posted to these threads for a while as I've really not got much of value to contribute, but I do read through the new ideas every so often.

[ChristianSt]

I'm not certain if I was the first to propose it, but I've held that theory since February 2009. I don't know how to link to my specific post, but it's on this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?102804-MitD-theories/page2), about 2/3 the way down. I used to be able to do it before the forum search was removed, but I managed to find the page at least through google.

By the way - love the new thread name. I haven't posted to these threads for a while as I've really not got much of value to contribute, but I do read through the new ideas every so often.

It is certainly possible - though I don't see how this (speculative) information adds any insight to the question "what is the MITD"?


[Off topic] There are several ways to link to your post: you can click on the #XY in the right corner of a post to get this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=5772875&postcount=48) or click again on the thread title on that page to get to the post in context (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?102804-MitD-theories&p=5772875&viewfull=1#post5772875) or you can use the post tag to get this link (doesn't open in a new window) - or if you want, you can just quote the post.

[Ron Miel]

I don't know how to link to my specific post, but it's on this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?102804-MitD-theories/page2), about 2/3 the way down.

Easy.

1) move your mouse pointer to the post number in the brown bar. Your post looks like :
Spoilers - Top - End - #37

so you would hover over the #37.

2) right-click and select 'open in new tab'

That will open a link to a single post

3) At the very top of the page you will see View Single Post ...... Thread: [thread name]

4) just click on the thread name,and it will open up the thread, opened to the specific post.


I used to be able to do it before the forum search was removed, but I managed to find the page at least through google.

The search function has been reinstated.


By the way - love the new thread name.

Thanks, it was mine.

[lothos]

It is certainly possible - though I don't see how this (speculative) information adds any insight to the question "what is the MitD"?

Agreed. I just wanted to try and claim some kudos (if there is any to be had) in case this theory does turn out to be true. The only way this would help to determine what MitD is would be if Rich explicitly stated "Hey, MitD Will be revealed at Kraagor's Gate and there will be another member of his species at the gate, oh, and that other member of the species won't be a sibling". In that (extremely unlikely) circumstance, we could probably all but rule out template stacking, as we could conclude he was a member of a true-breeding species.


[Off topic] There are several ways to link to your post: you can click on the #XY in the right corner of a post to get this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=5772875&postcount=48) or click again on the thread title on that page to get to the post in context (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?102804-MitD-theories&p=5772875&viewfull=1#post5772875) or you can use the post tag to get this link (doesn't open in a new window) - or if you want, you can just quote the post.

Thanks to both of you who replied on how to do that. I don't post often these days. I have a 10 month old son who occupies a lot of my time :-)

[Reddish Mage]

I tend to think that revealing a member of the MitD's species before the MitD uncloaks to be a sort of ultimate show-stealer. Unless say the beast is so strong it threatens TPK and the MitD reveals itself just in time to save "Flopsy."

[LadyEowyn]

lothos - Just commenting to say I'm a fan of your Vorlon avatar.

[lolthfollower]

Ssuming it's from the 3.5 monster manual, there isnt any possible monster. What medium or smaller creature with DR, some form of telekinesis or grasping imbs and is capable of creating an earthquake is there? My most wild, unlikely theory ever: It is a piece of the Snarl.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Ssuming it's from the 3.5 monster manual, there isnt any possible monster.
Luckily, we are not just limited to that one book.

What medium or smaller creature with DR, some form of telekinesis or grasping imbs and is capable of creating an earthquake is there?
You are making a lot of assumptions about the abilities of the MitD.

My most wild, unlikely theory ever: It is a piece of the Snarl.
Impossible, as that is something the Giant has invented. That is also among the most frequent (and annoying) guesses out there.

Before posting in here, I would read the first post, as it invalidates most of your statements.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I think a key question is: "what would The Giant think of, knowing what we do about him? What would he find interesting/funny/exciting?"

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think a key question is: "what would The Giant think of, knowing what we do about him? What would he find interesting/funny/exciting?"

I disagree. That question can only be answered by one individual, and he is not participating in this thread (except insofar as he provides the clues). What you, me and every other random person thinks the Giant would answer that question is completely subjective and not at all valuable to the thread. On the other hand, that question is probably an important one when it comes to selecting your personal pick for MitD, in which case go for it, but this thread is not concerned about that.

Grey Wolf

[Ghost Nappa]

I think a key question is: "what would The Giant think of, knowing what we do about him? What would he find interesting/funny/exciting?"


I disagree. That question can only be answered by one individual, and he is not participating in this thread (except insofar as he provides the clues). What you, me and every other random person thinks the Giant would answer that question is completely subjective and not at all valuable to the thread. On the other hand, that question is probably an important one when it comes to selecting your personal pick for MitD, in which case go for it, but this thread is not concerned about that.

Grey Wolf

Not to mention you're relying on an unspecific inquiry on information that's at least 10 years old.

The question you want us to ask is "What books were the Giant reading in 2004 that he thought were funny?" Reapply to every medium of entertainment across all possible authors. so long as they were published before MitD's first appearance.

We know for a fact (read: or rather it has been said) that his consumption has changed as he no longer games as much as he used to (Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tails) after switching to publishing OotS full-time in I want to say '07 or '08.

tl;dr: If you want to speculate, narrow the search field a bit lot.

[Socksy]

AUUGGHHHHHHHHH. I actually groaned. That is the most terrible pun I've seen in weeks. Which by the laws of puns, also makes it one of the best, but still. Oww!

[...]

If we haven't covered this already, SSDT proves, via the "Have I been updated?" line, that the MITD was a D&D monster in one of the editions.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If we haven't covered this already, SSDT proves, via the "Have I been updated?" line, that the MITD was a D&D monster in one of the editions.

I disagree. Without an answer, the question doesn't tell us anything solid. For example, all these could fit the question:
1) No, you were never stat'ed in the first place
2) Sure, from 2nd to 3rd
3) No, you are still first ed.

etc.

Grey Wolf

[...]

I disagree. Without an answer, the question doesn't tell us anything solid. For example, all these could fit the question:
1) No, you were never stat'ed in the first place
2) Sure, from 2nd to 3rd
3) No, you are still first ed.

etc.

Grey Wolf

True for the first one, but I did point out that he could be in any edition so 2 and 3 I already covered.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

If we haven't covered this already, SSDT proves, via the "Have I been updated?" line, that the MITD was a D&D monster in one of the editions.

Not necessarily. For example, he may think he was in a previous edition, but in fact wasn't. Or he may be unaware of whether or not he was even in a previous edition.

[Shale]

Plus he has D&D stats now, by virtue of existing in a D&D universe, even if he was homebrewed into it.

[SavageWombat]

Plus he has D&D stats now, by virtue of existing in a D&D universe, even if he was homebrewed into it.

Not if he's The Lady of Pain.

[Throknor]

If anything it illustrates that he still doesn't know what he can or can't do. If he knew what he was he'd know if he'd been upgraded. The Order recognized immediately that they'd been upgraded when their abilities changed at the start of the online comics. While he may not have gone through an Update, it is also plausible he didn't notice (as he wasn't trying to use abilities before or after) or simply doesn't remember as part of his overall ignorance of his past.

(Though I'd taken it as a joke about being near Xykon getting 4th edition abilities and simply wondering if he did in the book as well. Since that clearly hasn't happened in the ongoing story, I think all of their comments are throwaways. [Note: my book is packed away; I'm going off of memory.])

[b_jonas]

I was trying to see if there were any Magic: the Gathering cards that could represent the MitD. I haven't found anything convincing, but I'll share what I've found so far just in case anyone wants to follow through. Even without searching, I don't think it likely that the MitD could be based directly on a Magic: the Gathering card, because of copyright problems.

The most interesting card is Nightscape Battlemage (http://magiccards.info/ps/en/47.html). (This card is first released in 2001, so it's old enough.)

The second ability of this creature lets you return up to two creatures from the battlefield to their owner's hands. If the MitD is a Nightscape Battlemage, then we've seen him use this ability at least twice, possibly more times, once each time he appears in the story. The MitD has sent two creatures, O-Chul and Vaarsuvius, away, though Nightscape Battlemage would need some outside help to do this during a battle with Xykon. He has sent Miko and his horse Windstriker away from the tower (this probably counts as just one creature). He has made Xykon and Redcloak away from Windy Canyon, though Xykon could cast a dangerous spell while the MitD's ability was on the stack. He may have helped Xykon and Redcloak escape from Dorukan's dungeon. (These last two aren't good fits, because the MitD went with them too, so it would be returning three creatures.)

The third ability of the Battlemage is a land destruction ability. We may have seen the MitD use this when he made huge cracks in the earth with his stomp, and when he punched Miko and Windstriker so hard they made a hole in the tower. The MitD knows he has this ability, if the kicker cost (baked beans) is payed. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html)

One point against Nightscape Battlemage is that it is a black creature, which doesn't match the MitD's personality: the MitD actively cares about his friends and tries to help them. You could say though that Nightscape Battlemage is the MitD's species, but this individual MitD is somehow of a different color.

There are lots of cards and I haven't searched everything possible, so there are likely cards that fit better. You can help, or I might try to search more later.

[Shale]

Not if he's The Lady of Pain.

He leaves a trail Belkar can track, so he's not wearing a Ring of Levitation, and his demonstrated stats and abilities are way out of line with what you'd expect from four giant squirrels. I'm not seeing it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

He leaves a trail Belkar can track, so he's not wearing a Ring of Levitation

This does not follow. MitD was at least carrying Roy's body, and possibly a table, chairs, plush dolls, etc. Even if MitD himself was not touching the ground, he would still be leaving a track.

GW

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm really hoping we swing around to Team Evil soon so we can see more of the MitD and possibly get some more hints. I feel like we haven't really been improving that much.

[b_jonas]

I'm really hoping we swing around to Team Evil soon so we can see more of the MitD and possibly get some more hints. I feel like we haven't really been improving that much.

I hope no. The MitD is a super-weapon, he should be used in the most important fights, not overexposed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0784.html).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I hope no. The MitD is a super-weapon, he should be used in the most important fights, not overexposed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0784.html).

He can never be overexposed!

[thereaper]

This actually begs an interesting question.

Has the MitD ever said anything about clothing? That could provide a hint as to his type.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This actually begs an interesting question.

Has the MitD ever said anything about clothing? That could provide a hint as to his type.

I don't think he has, but I could easily be forgetting something.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

This actually begs an interesting question.

Has the MitD ever said anything about clothing? That could provide a hint as to his type.

IIRC, according to his own words on the subject of why he is not part of the trapeze act, he doesn't fit in leotards. Why that is (too fat? Claws too sharp? Skin too sharp? No legs? etc.) is anyone's guess.

Grey Wolf

[thereaper]

That suggests, at the very least, that he is not a small or medium humanoid.

Of course, we guessed as much already, but if someone comes out of the woodwork with an epic humanoid creature, this might be a point against it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That suggests, at the very least, that he is not a small or medium humanoid.

No, it doesn't. For example, as I said in my post, a small or medium humanoid with sharp claws would not be able to wear leotards, not when they are as clumsy as MitD.

Grey Wolf

[Werbaer]

That suggests, at the very least, that he is not a small or medium humanoid.
He could simply be too fat (from eating all the stew) to fit into the tight leotards they have at the circus.

[Steven]

If the wording was can't fit or doesn't fit then sharp claws don't really come into it.

Assuming we can trust the MitD's word on it at any case.

[thereaper]

No, it doesn't. For example, as I said in my post, a small or medium humanoid with sharp claws would not be able to wear leotards, not when they are as clumsy as MitD.

Grey Wolf

I'm not convinced of that, simply because of the possibility of help. Unless they were particularly large.

Either way, though, it would suggest that he isn't a small or medium humanoid with claws, at the very least.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Either way, though, it would suggest that he isn't a small or medium humanoid with claws, at the very least.

No. As I said last time, it does not suggest such a thing. We don't know why he can't wear them, and there are infinite ways in which a small or medium humanoid might be unable to wear leotards, so extrapolating a single interpretation from the fact is wrong. Maybe he has the wrong shape of legs (e.g. faun, hoofed, etc.), and finds them too uncomfortable. Maybe his feet are too large. Maybe his legs are too thick. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Drawing such a broad conclusion: "MitD cannot be a small or medium humanoid because he can't wear leotards" is pushing the fact's deduction way past breaking point.

Edit:

If the wording was can't fit or doesn't fit then sharp claws don't really come into it.

Assuming we can trust the MitD's word on it at any case.

The exact wording is "can't fit...probably because of all the stew I eat". Not sure why "can't" would discard claws, though - leotards meant for human use can't fit clawed feet.

Edit2: And to forestall the expected answer, no, I do not believe we can trust MitD's given explanation that stew is to blame. It might be, but MitD tends to be wrong about this kind of thing (e.g. "The elf ate beans too" deduction in the Tower scene). I will grant you it is a plausible reason (I'm far from fat, but I doubt I could get a circus leotard on - those guys tend to have a very specific body type), but it is not the only possible one. I lean more towards "MitD stole a set of leotards, and tore them apart when trying to put them on, because he can't control his strength" explanation.

Grey Wolf

[...]

No. As I said last time, it does not suggest such a thing. We don't know why he can't wear them, and there are infinite ways in which a small or medium humanoid might be unable to wear leotards, so extrapolating a single interpretation from the fact is wrong. Maybe he has the wrong shape of legs (e.g. faun, hoofed, etc.), and finds them too uncomfortable. Maybe his feet are too large. Maybe his legs are too thick. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Drawing such a broad conclusion: "MitD cannot be a small or medium humanoid because he can't wear leotards" is pushing the fact's deduction way past breaking point.

Edit:


The exact wording is "can't fit...probably because of all the stew I eat". Not sure why "can't" would discard claws, though - leotards meant for human use can't fit clawed feet.

Edit2: And to forestall the expected answer, no, I do not believe we can trust MitD's given explanation that stew is to blame. It might be, but MitD tends to be wrong about this kind of thing (e.g. "The elf ate beans too" deduction in the Tower scene). I will grant you it is a plausible reason (I'm far from fat, but I doubt I could get a circus leotard on - those guys tend to have a very specific body type), but it is not the only possible one. I lean more towards "MitD stole a set of leotards, and tore them apart when trying to put them on, because he can't control his strength" explanation.

Grey Wolf
I think that Steve's saying is that you could still "fit" if you had sharp claws that ripped the leotards, but the claws would rip up the leotards anyways. If he can't "fit," that's different than, for example, he can't "wear" them.

[halfeye]

The thing about leotards is they are I think mainly lycra=spandex=elastane. Almost one size fits all (humans).

[dric_dolphin]

I know I'm not suposed to "wild guess" in here but... has anyone proposed that MitD is actually a gelatinous cube with high CHA (allowing it to speak) with some sort of epic level in Psionic? (If this is an inapropriate reply, please disregard or delete it).

It's just that... Gelatinous Cubes ARE disgusting (to me at least, specially if there are people inside being diggested), and would not fit the leotard, and are not supposed to talk, and have really high STR (AFAIK) and CAN be used as a race template! Rich didn't said we were supposed to guess only "pure" creatures, did he? If not, it could be a strange creature with a class...

[Kish]

epic level in Psion[ic]
Variants on, "The creature in the darkness is a low-CR monster with an epic number of character levels, and the character levels are why he's so powerful" have been proposed before.

My answer to it is always: Look at this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0191.html) and tell me that the creature in the darkness has been adventuring through more dungeons than the Order or Redcloak and nearly as many as Xykon.

[Savannah]

a gelatinous cube with high CHA (allowing it to speak)

Charisma is in no way related to speech. There are plenty of high Cha monsters with limited or no speech, and plenty of low Cha monsters that can speak. Raising Charisma never grants you languages. Having a high starting Int gives you bonus languages, but you still have to physically be able to speak them...

[dric_dolphin]

Charisma is in no way related to speech. There are plenty of high Cha monsters with limited or no speech, and plenty of low Cha monsters that can speak. Raising Charisma never grants you languages. Having a high starting Int gives you bonus languages, but you still have to physically be able to speak them...

I was pretty sure I read somewhere that Cha was related to speech... specially that a creature with Cha lower than 3 is semi-sentient and incable of speaking, but I'm not sure of this. Now, regarding the "class" part, from the link Kish posted, MitD doesn't likes dungeoneering... but can't he have achieved high character classes through other means? Like, divine intervention, wishes, or DM desire?

[Qwertystop]

I was pretty sure I read somewhere that Cha was related to speech... specially that a creature with Cha lower than 3 is semi-sentient and incable of speaking, but I'm not sure of this. Now, regarding the "class" part, from the link Kish posted, MitD doesn't likes dungeoneering... but can't he have achieved high character classes through other means? Like, divine intervention, wishes, or DM desire?

Nope. Less than 3 Int is unintelligent and incapable of speech. Cha only has an issue when it hits 0.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

can't he have achieved high character classes through other means? Like, divine intervention, wishes, or DM desire?

As a rule of thumb, when a creature needs 20+ levels of off-page experience gain to be anywhere close to MitD-worthy, I call that "potted plant syndrome". As I demonstrated here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15747023&postcount=236), anything can be made MitD-worthy with enough levels/templates/additions. But at that point, how much is left of the original base creature? And thus, how can you be sure that base, rather than anything else, is the answer?

For levels in particular, we know that MitD was in a jungle doing nothing much for much of his life, then in a circus doing nothing much for some 20-odd years, then working as the monster in the shadows who is not allowed to do much until now. There is simply no justification for MitD having gained even a single level in his entire known history. Yes, we cannot outright discard he could have gained 20 levels off-page, but it is a hypothesis with absolutely no supporting evidence, I'm afraid.

Grey Wolf

[dric_dolphin]

As a rule of thumb, when a creature needs 20+ levels of off-page experience gain to be anywhere close to MitD-worthy, I call that "potted plant syndrome". As I demonstrated here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15747023&postcount=236), anything can be made MitD-worthy with enough levels/templates/additions. But at that point, how much is left of the original base creature? And thus, how can you be sure that base, rather than anything else, is the answer?

For levels in particular, we know that MitD was in a jungle doing nothing much for much of his life, then in a circus doing nothing much for some 20-odd years, then working as the monster in the shadows who is not allowed to do much until now. There is simply no justification for MitD having gained even a single level in his entire known history. Yes, we cannot outright discard he could have gained 20 levels off-page, but it is a hypothesis with absolutely no supporting evidence, I'm afraid.

Grey Wolf

Thank you for the clarification! When I read the "potted plant" on the first post (I did read it, and even searched for my lovely Gelatinou Cube), I didn't realize that my suggestion would fall on that situation.

[pearl jam]

I think I've browsed any of the various iterations of this thread maybe once or twice in the history of OOTs, but I had to say that the title of this iteration of the thread is too awesome. :P

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think I've browsed any of the various iterations of this thread maybe once or twice in the history of OOTs, but I had to say that the title of this iteration of the thread is too awesome. :P

It's quite punny, isn't it? :smalltongue:

[AsteronIronhoof]

So I just found something. In comic #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0259.html), one of the hobgoblins says that he peeked under the shadows, and he recognized the MitD. This may mean that a regular person could see him and know what he is.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

So I just found something. In comic #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0259.html), one of the hobgoblins says that he peeked under the shadows, and he recognized the MitD. This may mean that a regular person could see him and know what he is.

However, at the circus someone said that they had never seen anything like him and the people running the circus had no idea what he was either, which seems to indicate the opposite. It may just be that the hobgoblin had additional knowledge.

[SavageWombat]

So I just found something. In comic #259 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0259.html), one of the hobgoblins says that he peeked under the shadows, and he recognized the MitD. This may mean that a regular person could see him and know what he is.

He "peaked" under the shadows. He knew that was the high point of his life, and it would never be that good for him again.

And he was right, as it turned out.

[Qwertystop]

Huh. Never noticed that typo.

And personally, I think that that answer could easily have been a visual description - "some big tentacled purple monster" or "a buggish thing in black armor" or "more darkness" or "a dragon."

(none of those except Zodar are intentionally based in any way on actual possibilities)

[b_jonas]

There is simply no justification for MitD having gained even a single level in his entire known history.

I thought he could have gained one level for defeating the archons in Dorukan's castle. But then I looked it up and it seems no: Lantern Archons in DnD are monsters with a pretty low challenge rating, unlike the archons in nethack which are among the toughest creatures you'll see (but you don't meet any in a typical game).

I wonder if “losing the game” against Miko and his horse counts as defeating them though. If the game was only a trick and he always intended to lose, as I suspect, then it could count as such, though there's the problem that he was ordered to have them not get away. If that was a defeat, Miko is a worthy enough challenge that the MitD might have gained a level from it unless he already had a very high effective level.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If that was a defeat, Miko is a worthy enough challenge that the MitD might have gained a level from it unless he already had a very high effective level.

We tend to assume CR 18+, likely epic, so while he may have gained some XP from it, I can't see level-16 Miko being such a challenge that it would give him a level. It might have been good enough to push him over, if he was close, though. So, fair enough, he may have gained 1 level in the entire time in the comic. Hardly the basis to assume 15+ class levels, unfortunately.

GW

[Ron Miel]

Does he get XP for
- causing an earthquake
- learning Go
- teleporting O-Chul
- outsmarting Redcloak & Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html)

[AgentPaper]

He's probably got loads of roleplaying XP for all those tea parties. :smalltongue:

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Does he get XP for
- causing an earthquake
No. Using powers to achieve nothing doesn't give you XP. Otherwise, Munchkins would never stop casting cantrips

- learning Go
No. If anything, that required using up skill points

- teleporting O-Chul
No. Using powers to achieve nothing doesn't give you XP. Otherwise, Munchkins would never stop casting cantrips

- outsmarting Redcloak & Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html)
Maybe, but probably not. We have seen people changing other people's minds, and it does not seem to have gained them XPs. The only non-combat XP gain was Belkars BS tearjerking tale of his difficult childhood.

Grey Wolf

[Emanick]

- causing an earthquake
No. Using powers to achieve nothing doesn't give you XP. Otherwise, Munchkins would never stop casting cantrips

- learning Go
No. If anything, that required using up skill points

- teleporting O-Chul
No. Using powers to achieve nothing doesn't give you XP. Otherwise, Munchkins would never stop casting cantrips

- outsmarting Redcloak & Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html)
Maybe, but probably not. We have seen people changing other people's minds, and it does not seem to have gained them XPs. The only non-combat XP gain was Belkars BS tearjerking tale of his difficult childhood.

Grey Wolf

FWIW, as a DM I would have given a character playing the MitD XP for the latter two events. They don't require combat, per se, but they do require the application of power and/or a risky diplomatic move to achieve a very combat-related outcome.

I still agree that it's very unlikely the MitD is gaining levels in anything, though.

[Ron Miel]

In what way does the earthquake or the teleport 'achieve nothing'? It seems to me that they both achieve something.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In what way does the earthquake or the teleport 'achieve nothing'? It seems to me that they both achieve something.

The earthquake definitely doesn't achieve much. In general, XP is gained for defeating something, or overcoming some kind of challenge. With the earthquake, all he does is recapture O-Chul, which (while probably not nothing) isn't really worthy of an XP gain. With teleport, you could make a better case, but it still probably wouldn't be a whole lot of XP.

[mouser9169]

Finally chiming in here. I miss the guy, hope we see him again soon.

My thoughts (which I'm sure have been asked and answered before, probably several times):

1) I don't have the books, so can't see the actual picture - but in the circus scene description it seems the females are the ones who find "him" beautiful. Maybe a creature with some sort of 'sexual/gender based' appearance or affect? Would explain why a child 'feels funny' if she isn't old enough to really process what's going on. Some of the male devil/demons come to mind, but they're out since they're 'embodiments' of evil and we know that MitD is "a good man".

2) The fine line. My first thought when I read that long ago now was that there might be some book out there where Rich has a monster (or something) published next to the entry that someone else wrote (which is the MitD), separated by a fine line.

3) The Go board is definitely Raccoon Mario. Definitely :biggrin:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

1) I don't have the books, so can't see the actual picture - but in the circus scene description it seems the females are the ones who find "him" beautiful. Maybe a creature with some sort of 'sexual/gender based' appearance or affect? Would explain why a child 'feels funny' if she isn't old enough to really process what's going on. Some of the male devil/demons come to mind, but they're out since they're 'embodiments' of evil and we know that MitD is "a good man".

There is only one female who says that. Most of the others have a :smalleek: expression on their faces. None of the goblins seem to view him either way.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Finally chiming in here. I miss the guy, hope we see him again soon.

My thoughts (which I'm sure have been asked and answered before, probably several times):
Actually, refreshingly new thoughts - thanks. Particularly glad not to have the "meaning of the fine line" discussion in the exact same way for the umpteenth time. And I love your take on the Go! board.


1) I don't have the books, so can't see the actual picture - but in the circus scene description it seems the females are the ones who find "him" beautiful. Maybe a creature with some sort of 'sexual/gender based' appearance or affect? Would explain why a child 'feels funny' if she isn't old enough to really process what's going on. Some of the male devil/demons come to mind, but they're out since they're 'embodiments' of evil and we know that MitD is "a good man".
Yeah, as Jaxzan said, it's only the one female. It's important in that whatever disgusting thing he is, some people find it beautiful, but I don't think reading too much into the sex of the person is warranted. Small sample size and all that.


2) The fine line. My first thought when I read that long ago now was that there might be some book out there where Rich has a monster (or something) published next to the entry that someone else wrote (which is the MitD), separated by a fine line.

A little too literal for my tastes, but I can see that being a cryptojoke, I suppose. That said, I had the occasion to check out the infamous "acid shark" book, and I do not recall any lines between entries (each entry had its own page), so unless it was one of the other manuals, I think we are out of luck down this alleyway.

Grey Wolf

[...]

After weeks scrounging in the dark corners of the Steam Forums, I think I have found just the right evidence for MitD being a rock! Prepare yourselves for the perfect explanation for MitD's increased strength and durability!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cY67PQFOVE

Are you impressed yet?:smalltongue:

[Rock270]

After weeks scrounging in the dark corners of the Steam Forums, I think I have found just the right evidence for MitD being a rock! Prepare yourselves for the perfect explanation for MitD's increased strength and durability!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cY67PQFOVE

Are you impressed yet?:smalltongue:

While this is an excellent theory, it is quickly disproved because the rock showed no ability to teleport others.

[edit] However, it could explain the circus scene as the rock was horrific and beautiful at the same time; I am very impressed.

[...]

While this is an excellent theory, it is quickly disproved because the rock showed no ability to teleport others.

[edit] However, it could explain the circus scene as the rock was horrific and beautiful at the same time; I am very impressed.

How do you know that the rock was showing its full capabilities?

[Rock270]

How do you know that the rock was showing its full capabilities?

You are right, we don't know whether the rock was showing its full power; there just isn't any evidence showing that it can teleport others.

[AsteronIronhoof]

You are right, we don't know whether the rock was showing its full power; there just isn't any evidence showing that it can teleport others.

Either way, that video was not posted before comic #100, so it, unfortunately, is not the MitD. :smallfrown:

[...]

Either way, that video was not posted before comic #100, so it, unfortunately, is not the MitD. :smallfrown:

Obviously this individual rock is not MitD, due to its time of posting, but it shows traits that both MitD and a rock have in common. Just pick up a rock, throw it, and watch it mow down a small city.

[lt_murgen]

New to this forum, but I thought I would throw a half-serious suggestion out there:

MitD is a giant snowman.
Yes, I got that directly from the artwork Rich released, seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/gitpkick/MustHaveBeenSomeMagic.png)

From the big 5 questions:
1) How did giant snowman punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
- appropriate strength

2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
- slashing weapons would have little effect cutting through snow, it would jsut ooze shut.

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
- don't knpw specifically, unless wizard was from some place where building snowmen was unknown (tropical climate?).

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
- watching Frosty the Snowman at christmas time each year always makes me queasy.

5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?
- its a magical hat that grants wishes.

It does explain why he needs the umbrella- he would melt in the sun. It also explains why he didn't go to the beach- too hot.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

New to this forum, but I thought I would throw a half-serious suggestion out there:

MitD is a giant snowman.
Yes, I got that directly from the artwork Rich released, seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/gitpkick/MustHaveBeenSomeMagic.png)

From the big 5 questions:
1) How did giant snowman punch Miko and her horse through a wall?
- appropriate strength

2) Why didn't Miko or Belkar's weapons hurt [insert suggestion here]?
- slashing weapons would have little effect cutting through snow, it would jsut ooze shut.

3) Why wouldn't a wizard recognize [insert suggestion here]?
- don't knpw specifically, unless wizard was from some place where building snowmen was unknown (tropical climate?).

4) Why would humans become nauseous at seeing [insert suggestion here]?
- watching Frosty the Snowman at christmas time each year always makes me queasy.

5) How did [insert suggestion here] teleport V and O-Chul to the beach with Hinjo?
- its a magical hat that grants wishes.

It does explain why he needs the umbrella- he would melt in the sun. It also explains why he didn't go to the beach- too hot.

Since the MitD lived in a hot sunny climate at one point, I think it is unlikely he is a snowman. An amusing suggestion, though.

[Bongos]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm hoping the reveal comes soon, however I'm sure it won't happen before more character development. Actually Rich seems to be setting the MiTD for a big double cross against Team Evil.

[AsteronIronhoof]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm hoping the reveal comes soon, however I'm sure it won't happen before more character development. Actually Rich seems to be setting the MiTD for a big double cross against Team Evil.

Well, at the rate new comics are coming out, it we be a few years before that happens. :smallfrown: But if the Giant decides to show what Team Evil is doing before that we may get some new clues about the MitD. :smallbiggrin:

[lt_murgen]

Since the MitD lived in a hot sunny climate at one point, I think it is unlikely he is a snowman. An amusing suggestion, though.

I know! But that is why the explorers were so surprised to see it. A snowman, in a jungle. And it talks!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I know! But that is why the explorers were so surprised to see it. A snowman, in a jungle. And it talks!

That is a good point. However, I think it crosses the line from "climate it is not usually found in" to "climate wherein it couldn't survive.

One other problem I see is size.

[Rock270]

That is a good point. However, I think it crosses the line from "climate it is not usually found in" to "climate wherein it couldn't survive.

One other problem I see is size.

Snowmen vary greatly in size and shape.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Snowmen vary greatly in size and shape.

In this case, the size was specified as "giant".

[DaggerPen]

God, this thread needs a Team Evil cutaway.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

God, this thread needs a Team Evil cutaway.

Agreed.

GW

[Jaxzan Proditor]

God, this thread needs a Team Evil cutaway.

That's what I'm really wishing for. It's been how long since we last saw them?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

that's what i'm really wishing for. It's been how long since we last saw them?

901, 2013-07-17

Grey Wolf

[mouser9169]

Whatever he is, I think the "Escape!" moment represented him moving up an age category, or something similar. Granted, we haven't seen much of him since then (we need to get Team Evil back into the strip, it's been like a year now since we've seen them), but look at what we have seen:

The MitD making a "bluff" or some other check to outsmart Xykon and get him to leave the OotS alone.

That's something I can't see MitD pulling off with all we knew about him prior to that. Yes, Rich said he 'dug deep', and found powers he didn't know he had, but isn't that exactly what "growing" and gaining powers would be like for a creature that didn't have peers around to explain what was going to happen to him?

Personally I think he kind of knew he should have that ability before, which is why he kept betting on "escapes and lives happily ever after", and is confused that his 'hoping really hard' didn't make it happen. He just finally grew enough and cared enough for it to work.

[DaggerPen]

I like the idea that MitD knew vaguely that he should be able to do something like that, perhaps from something his father did at some point. It being an age category changeover seems sensible to me, but creatures with clear age categories are far and few between.

[Windscion]

One thing that really puzzles me, is MitD's mass. (Weight, for non-STEM types). In SoD, Redcloak moves MitD's cage (with itself inside it) by himself. While RC's strength is unclear, I thinks it's safe to assume that he is not exceptionally strong. Even with leverage, MitD cannot therefore weigh much more than 140kg (300 lbs). I thought maybe MitD floats (making it effectively weightless), but then why would it describe the Astral plane as weightless?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

One thing that really puzzles me, is MitD's mass. (Weight, for non-STEM types). In SoD, Redcloak moves MitD's cage (with itself inside it) by himself. While RC's strength is unclear, I thinks it's safe to assume that he is not exceptionally strong. Even with leverage, MitD cannot therefore weigh much more than 140kg (300 lbs). I thought maybe MitD floats (making it effectively weightless), but then why would it describe the Astral plane as weightless?

I did the math some threads back. If the box is made of light wood (like pine) and it is not as reinforced as it looks, MitD can be of humanoid size or even a quite light large creature (500 lb.) and RC could still have pushed it onto the cart. The key is that RC planned the robbery, so he would have had access to strength-boosting spells.

That said, I suspect that Rich did not do the math. He needed MitD's cage on the cart, so RC pushed him onto it - it is as simple as that. If the box is reinforced (which it looks like) and made of something a little more reliable than pine, no amount of boosts would give a non-melee cleric the strength to lift it, never mind anything inside it.

Grey Wolf

[DaggerPen]

I did the math some threads back. If the box is made of light wood (like pine) and it is not as reinforced as it looks, MitD can be of humanoid size or even a quite light large creature (500 lb.) and RC could still have pushed it onto the cart. The key is that RC planned the robbery, so he would have had access to strength-boosting spells.

That said, I suspect that Rich did not do the math. He needed MitD's cage on the cart, so RC pushed him onto it - it is as simple as that. If the box is reinforced (which it looks like) and made of something a little more reliable than pine, no amount of boosts would give a non-melee cleric the strength to lift it, never mind anything inside it.

Grey Wolf

There was a multi-page discussion of wood densities, medieval construction techniques and likely forest growth patterns. We were quite thorough.

[lt_murgen]

If he was made of snow, and got a bit melty, that would lower the friction and make the box easier to slide.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If he was made of snow, and got a bit melty, that would lower the friction and make the box easier to slide.

Wait, someone is still pushing that? OK: MitD cannot be a giant snowman, because giant snowmen are not strong enough, cannot teleport people, and cannot be exhibited in a circus as an unknowable "IT" that no-one ever recognises. Also, if you wet wood, it doesn't become any easier to push - it just soaks the water, and becomes heavier.

GW

[rweird]

Wait, someone is still pushing that? OK: MitD cannot be a giant snowman, because giant snowmen are not strong enough, cannot teleport people, and cannot be exhibited in a circus as an unknowable "IT" that no-one ever recognises.

Are there D&D stats for giant snowmen anywhere, or is just based off that image of OOTS fighting one? If the later, I would be unsurprised if it would have the requisite strength of 30+ (huge creatures typically have a strength of 27-33 according to the MM, gargantuan ones, 30-40).

Making people feel sick and all is a very valid point, and if it was large enough to be strong enough for the tower scene, it would be too large to be the MitD (we can compare the snowman's size to Belkar's, and the MitD's size under the umbrella to Belkar's, they are nowhere similar), and the snowman would weigh to much for Redcloak to push.

I believe it was suggested that the hat grants wishes (not sure how that idea came about), to explain the escape.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I believe it was suggested that the hat grants wishes (not sure how that idea came about), to explain the escape.

"He dug deep to find powers...". That discounts hats, rings, magical lamps and all other means of external magic.

GW

[AgentPaper]

"He dug deep to find powers...". That discounts hats, rings, magical lamps and all other means of external magic.

GW

Well, unless he literally dug deep within himself to find a hat/ring/lamp that he didn't know was in there. :smalltongue:

[rweird]

"He dug deep to find powers...". That discounts hats, rings, magical lamps and all other means of external magic.

GW

All right, devil's advocate time:

If the hat is like the hat that animated Frosty the Snowman (kind of what I got from the suggestion), especially with Elan saying "shoot the hat," I would argue that the hat is not a normal magical item, but possesses some sort of intelligence, and is the animating force of the snowman, and is the actual spirit, while the snow forms the body (Fiend of Possession-ish perhaps), and the hat digs into its innate magical abilities to cause the escape.

Then again, this would be something Rich made up, and I believe the image is from the Kickstarter, so unless we have evidence of this snowman being created prior to strip 100, for something other than OOTS, I think it would violate the fine line.

[Bongos]

Snowman doesn't have feet with which to stomp with.

[SavageWombat]

Snowman doesn't have feet with which to stomp with.

Frosty did.

However, I think the "unrecognizable" issue is a deal-breaker.

[lt_murgen]

Unless the circus was in a jungle / desert or other areas where people are not familiar with snow...:smallsmile:

[allenw]

Also, if you wet wood, it doesn't become any easier to push - it just soaks the water, and becomes heavier.

GW

There must have been some WD-40 in that old silk hat they found...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Unless the circus was in a jungle / desert or other areas where people are not familiar with snow...:smallsmile:

It didn't really seem like it. It's kind of hard to tell without the color, but it seems to be a fairly temperate climate.

[Seraph1]

I'd guess Zodar, but that would just to be cute,

In all honesty, some sort of cool iconic monster makes more sense.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'd guess Zodar, but that would just to be cute,
Zodar can't explain the circus scene without invoking some non-canonical looks. A guy in black armour does not make for a riveting show.


In all honesty, some sort of cool iconic monster makes more sense.

So I have been told, way too many times to be counted. And yet, neither is a list of "cool iconic" monsters forthcoming from such declarations, nor is there a rational reason why it would "make more sense".

I should add, for the record, that I have been informed that the Zodar is iconic, although the particular person that declared it so did not think to tell me if it is also cool.

Grey Wolf

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I find it funny that, in SoD, Redcloak's sarcastic reply to the MitD is "because I wear black armor." Define my not evidence towards Zodar, but still sort of amusing.

[Seraph1]

Maybe it's a Zodar with no armor, and they happen to be really ugly =)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Maybe it's a Zodar with no armor, and they happen to be really ugly =)

Or maybe it's a really strong, wish-granting centaur. But unless you can find a reference to this armour-less zodar predating #100, it would fall under the "invented by Rich" category.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

If it was unguessed, it wouldn't have its own entry under Proposed Creatures (with a list of pros and cons, not just a brief description of why it would be proposed and why it doesn't really fit).

[Seraph1]

One idea that hasn't been guessed.

1. Worm that walks, it would explain the spell casting, disgust upon viewing, damage reduction, and it's the right size. (Earthquake, etc could be latent sorcerer abilities). Actually MANY occurrences could be explained by latent sorcerer abilities from the base creature that it may not be aware it has.

Example, telekinesis punched miko and the horse

Earthquake, self explanatory

Escape. Self explanatory.

Unidentifiable to a wizard? Very exotic and it's a very hard check to identify.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Two other ideas might be

1. Worm that walks, it would explain the spell casting, disgust upon viewing, damage reduction. (Earthquake, etc could be latent sorcerer abilities). Actually MANY occurrences could be explained by latent sorcerer abilities from the base creature.

Example, telekinesis punched miko and the horse

Earthquake, self explanatory

Escape. Self explanatory.

Unidentifiable to a wizard? Very exotic and it's a very hard check to identify.

Worm that walks is a template, and as such falls under the same problems all other templates do (see section 2d - Templated/Mixed lineage Creature). Giving a creature sorcerer levels falls under 2d - Class levels.

GW

[Seraph1]

True, maybe I'm stretching too far

I feel like this fits, but it's just too complex to be correct.

1. I think aberrations can be mind controlled, am I incorrect on that? I didn't think they had immune to mind affecting as a subtype, but my memory may be hazy.

2. It is possible that this creature was created and it didn't have memories of his spell casting abilities and that they simply come out latently. (Worms that walk can be created both via ritual and via natural occurrence, all you need is the corpse of a spell caster)

[...]

True, maybe I'm stretching too far

I feel like this fits, but it's just too complex to be correct.

1. I think aberrations can be mind controlled, am I incorrect on that? I didn't think they had immune to mind affecting as a subtype, but my memory may be hazy.

2. It is possible that this creature was created and it didn't have memories of his spell casting abilities and that they simply come out latently. (Worms that walk can be created both via ritual and via natural occurrence, all you need is the corpse of a spell caster)

Worms that walk, as far as I remember, are monstrous humanoids.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Worms that walk, as far as I remember, are monstrous humanoids.

It's a template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/wormThatWalks.htm) that turns an evil wizard into an aberration.

GW

[rweird]

True, maybe I'm stretching too far

I feel like this fits, but it's just too complex to be correct.

1. I think aberrations can be mind controlled, am I incorrect on that? I didn't think they had immune to mind affecting as a subtype, but my memory may be hazy.

They aren't, although things like Dominate Person wouldn't work (Dominate Monster would). They'd have good will saves as epic level casters, and high SR (34+).


2. It is possible that this creature was created and it didn't have memories of his spell casting abilities and that they simply come out latently. (Worms that walk can be created both via ritual and via natural occurrence, all you need is the corpse of a spell caster)

It would need the silent spell feat, or be able to cast a spell called "Escape" that does that. No Worm that Walks, which already has been given stats, to my knowledge, has this feat, making it a creation of Rich's.

Also, Telekinesis is a really poor way to explain the escape, Windstriker almost certainly would weigh more than 375 pounds, making him not eligible for violent force, and instead it would be a combat maneuver (Bull Rush), which couldn't actually break the wall (unless the MitD also has levels in Fighter and is a Dungeoncrasher), and violent force would deal a maximum of 15d6 (if Milko and her armor weigh exactly 375 pounds total, and counts as a dense object), which still could only break through 5 inches of stone, rolling maximum damage, on average, perhaps 3). All that aside, it wouldn't make sense of Telekinesis to be used when the MitD wants to "hit" someone, especially if it is a cast as a spell, and even then, the MitD would have to be unaware he cast it (and I'm pretty sure it would have to be Silent as well).

For the Earthquake, if you mean the spell, he'd have to cast Silent Earthquake, and have a way to cast Cleric or Druid spells, or spells from the Earth or Destruction domain, requiring delving even further into "custom made for this story."

[Seraph1]

They aren't, although things like Dominate Person wouldn't work (Dominate Monster would). They'd have good will saves as epic level casters, and high SR (34+).



It would need the silent spell feat, or be able to cast a spell called "Escape" that does that. No Worm that Walks, which already has been given stats, to my knowledge, has this feat, making it a creation of Rich's.

Also, Telekinesis is a really poor way to explain the escape, Windstriker almost certainly would weigh more than 375 pounds, making him not eligible for violent force, and instead it would be a combat maneuver (Bull Rush), which couldn't actually break the wall (unless the MitD also has levels in Fighter and is a Dungeoncrasher), and violent force would deal a maximum of 15d6 (if Milko and her armor weigh exactly 375 pounds total, and counts as a dense object), which still could only break through 5 inches of stone, rolling maximum damage, on average, perhaps 3). All that aside, it wouldn't make sense of Telekinesis to be used when the MitD wants to "hit" someone, especially if it is a cast as a spell, and even then, the MitD would have to be unaware he cast it (and I'm pretty sure it would have to be Silent as well).

For the Earthquake, if you mean the spell, he'd have to cast Silent Earthquake, and have a way to cast Cleric or Druid spells, or spells from the Earth or Destruction domain, requiring delving even further into "custom made for this story."

All really good points

[Crusher]

Its a template, but its also a monster in its own right. The problem is that while its got a bunch of abilities and characteristics, most of them aren't really applicable for our purposes so the whole thing boils down to a high level spellcaster that pretty weird looking. That's handy, because it gives defensible answers to 2 of the 3 tests (Circus and Escape), and the fluff could be argued as being positive (a problem with its creation is why MitD can't remember so much), and you could even argue that maybe it was a giant-race caster and its "father" is in fact itself.

But unfortunately the fluff also fails a bunch of characteristics (sleeping? having teeth?) while also completely failing the tower test due to lack of defenses and STR. As noted, Telekinesis is a poor substitute for a metric f**kton of STR.

Edit - As an aside, I did as thorough a review as I could manage of anything that could be considered a snowman. Ice and snow constructs, golems, plus a few other things like the "robot-girl" homebrew monster/template (which has actual potential as a concept and I think is old enough, but sadly doesn't list a monster anywhere near powerful enough) and nothing turned up. Which is too bad, because there were more monsters and rule information dedicated to it than I expected. And usually when a fishing expedition gets that kind of traction there's *something* that can at least be shoe-horned into a proposal but this time there was nothing.

There's probably some entertainment to be had in arguing MitD is a Robot Girl who has taken 10 levels in the Arch-Golem Execution Girlfriend prestige class, gained the "Vengeance" special ability, and then died and was reincarnated into a Vengeance Titan Shell but lost his memories along the way and thus doesn't know how to work the Pyrophonic Blaster and Fusion Mega-Cannon he'd probably have mounted on his arms (and also forgot that he's actually a girl, albeit in giant robot form, so it would be relatively easy to forget) but I'm not even going to start.

[Quartz]

I've just been rereading strip #55 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html). If Xykon had hired Nale & co to retrieve the Talisman, wouldn't that be a pointer to the MITD being a monster from a previous edition?


That is the Talisman's power, to bring all outdated monsters under the wearer's control

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I've just been rereading strip #55 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html). If Xykon had hired Nale & co to retrieve the Talisman, wouldn't that be a pointer to the MITD being a monster from a previous edition?

Err... No? I don't understand where you see a connection. The talisman existed long before that scene, plot-wise, and had been used to attract those creatures to the talisman room long before the start of the strip, so if MitD was a 2nd ed creature, it would have had to be trapped in the room, not with Xykon.

Grey Wolf

[Quartz]

Err... No? I don't understand where you see a connection. The talisman existed long before that scene, plot-wise, and had been used to attract those creatures to the talisman room long before the start of the strip, so if MitD was a 2nd ed creature, it would have had to be trapped in the room, not with Xykon.

It had been captured long before and then was under Xykon's charm. So maybe it couldn't get trapped?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I've just been rereading strip #55 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html). If Xykon had hired Nale & co to retrieve the Talisman, wouldn't that be a pointer to the MITD being a monster from a previous edition?

If you are trying to imply that Xykon wanted to use the Talisman to control the MitD, then I would say No, because Xykon already had a method of controlling him.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It had been captured long before and then was under Xykon's charm. So maybe it couldn't get trapped?

We don't know when all the 2nd ed edition creatures were attracted, but MitD has never been seen resisting the amulet, and yet has never been restrained in a physical way - he has always had the ability to leave the cage, as pointed out by RC. Thus, I don't see how the fact he is not in the 2nd ed room suggests he is a 2nd ed creature.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

I've just been rereading strip #55 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html). If Xykon had hired Nale & co to retrieve the Talisman, wouldn't that be a pointer to the MITD being a monster from a previous edition?
Does it matter? He didn't hire the Linear Guild to retrieve the talisman; he hired them to kill the Order of the Stick. Nale said Xykon didn't even know the talisman Nale sought was in his dungeon; taking as read that Nale doesn't actually know what Xykon does or doesn't know, that still rules out Xykon having mentioned the talisman to Nale.

[halfeye]

I've just been rereading strip #55 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html). If Xykon had hired Nale & co to retrieve the Talisman, wouldn't that be a pointer to the MITD being a monster from a previous edition?

Xykon hired me to kill you, unaware that the Talisman for which I searched lay in his dungeon.

So, he didn't hire Nale to find the Talisman.

strip 57 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html)


Does it matter? He didn't hire the Linear Guild to retrieve the talisman; he hired them to kill the Order of the Stick. Nale said Xykon didn't even know the talisman Nale sought was in his dungeon; taking as read that Nale doesn't actually know what Xykon does or doesn't know, that still rules out Xykon having mentioned the talisman to Nale.

I'm not the first to say so either. :smallredface:

[Arogyos]

Zodar can't explain the circus scene without invoking some non-canonical looks. A guy in black armour does not make for a riveting show.



So I have been told, way too many times to be counted. And yet, neither is a list of "cool iconic" monsters forthcoming from such declarations, nor is there a rational reason why it would "make more sense".

I should add, for the record, that I have been informed that the Zodar is iconic, although the particular person that declared it so did not think to tell me if it is also cool.

Grey Wolf


IIRC The Giant decided what MITD was ~strip#100, the way the strip was at that time....the humour, the atmosphere, the references.....the sorcerers' pies, the cinema snack fights....IMO it definitely makes sense for it to be some sorta semi-joke iconic non-DnD monster (eg Godzilla, but definitely not that).

I don't have a suggestion atm, but can definitely understand & agree why people think it...

[ChristianSt]

IIRC The Giant decided what MITD was ~strip#100, the way the strip was at that time....the humour, the atmosphere, the references.....the sorcerers' pies, the cinema snack fights....IMO it definitely makes sense for it to be some sorta semi-joke iconic non-DnD monster (eg Godzilla, but definitely not that).

I don't have a suggestion atm, but can definitely understand & agree why people think it...

I think you misunderstood Grey Wolf.

He doesn't in any way say that MitD can't be iconic (or must be DnD), but that it doesn't need to be iconic (whatever that means). The iconic-ness or DnD-ness or the coolness isn't relevant for a monster to fulfill the requirements for being MitD.

If you think that a iconic non-DnD monster is a good fit, just propose it and say why you think it could be MitD. But saying "it should be iconic" doesn't help. We don't know whether or not MitD is iconic or not (or DnD or not DnD; or cool or not).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

IIRC The Giant decided what MITD was ~strip#100, the way the strip was at that time....the humour, the atmosphere, the references.....the sorcerers' pies, the cinema snack fights....IMO it definitely makes sense for it to be some sorta semi-joke iconic non-DnD monster (eg Godzilla, but definitely not that).

Except #100 is also when Rich sat down and planned the rest of the comic: the plot, the major scenes, the ending and, because he had to fit all of that with what had already been written, what the MitD would turn out to be. That is the time when the comic shifted focus from silly gags to a more serious storyline. Thus, anchoring the idea that MitD might turn out to be something silly on the fact that early on the comic was sillier is not a solid argument, since MitD only became a specific type of creature when the comic underwent Cerebus Syndrome.

That said, even if you are right, I still fail to see how "silly" would equate with "iconic". Still, if that were the case, may I suggest our earliest FBS creature, Snorlax? Very iconic, fits the big scenes, known for being lazy and eating almost anything, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a child aged 8-18 that doesn't know of it or at least recognises it on sight.

Edit: Also, what ChristianSt said.

Grey Wolf

[Arogyos]

@Christian
It was more intended as a response to the statement that "nor is there a rational reason why it would "make more sense"." I tend to think the reasoning is fairly obvious.

@Grey_Wolf, true, I just went 'n read the comment and it does possibly suggest something more serious, and possible the argument against "obscure" isn't as strong as I thought. I was thinking of the sort of thing he'd come up with to be a mystery til the end (or near, mebe) of the comic....but in reality he already had a mystery shaped hole with mspaintadventures-Sepulchritude-build up to a big reveal for comedy reasons and was possibly just filling it with something level appropriate for endgame.

Snorlax? Nah, I'm not familiar enough with PM to be sure, but I don't think it's really ("should be") scary or ("we know how") powerful enough.

Also, do 8 year olds still play PM that much? It is a craze from the 90s....

[Crusher]

Also, do 8 year olds still play PM that much? It is a craze from the 90s....

Couldn't tell you whether or not they play it more or less than they did in the '80s, but yes they do still play Pokemon.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I don't see reference to it in the OP, so probably either it has been and was rejected for a reason that isn't occurring to me, or hasn't been mentioned...

In appearances where the MitD is in darkness but not under the umbrella, the darkness-falloff-gradient is vertical in front of it instead of horizontal below it. Despite its eyes partly appearing in that light/dark gradient, we don't see its body at all, not even a silhouette or something. Does that maybe mean it has eye-stalks, or that its eyes are otherwise not closely attached to its body? (Being outright incorporeal is apparently ruled out by Redcloak's "undead material" comment, but maybe that was reading too much into it.)

Example: the "moldy cheeseburger" flashback panel in #475 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html). Note that the gradient could have easily been more narrow, or drawn a little further to the left (behind the goblin with its tongue sticking out), putting the MitD entirely in an area of complete dark/black. Also note that, in the time since the strips this is a flashback to, there have been a few art upgrades and so that detail is less likely to be due to the sketchy/"deformed" (Haley's words) style of the earliest strips.

Thoughts?

[halfeye]

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I don't see reference to it in the OP, so probably either it has been and was rejected for a reason that isn't occurring to me, or hasn't been mentioned...

In appearances where the MitD is in darkness but not under the umbrella, the darkness-falloff-gradient is vertical in front of it instead of horizontal below it. Despite its eyes partly appearing in that light/dark gradient, we don't see its body at all, not even a silhouette or something. Does that maybe mean it has eye-stalks, or that its eyes are otherwise not closely attached to its body? (Being outright incorporeal is apparently ruled out by Redcloak's "undead material" comment, but maybe that was reading too much into it.)

Example: the "moldy cheeseburger" flashback panel in #475 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html). Note that the gradient could have easily been more narrow, or drawn a little further to the left (behind the goblin with its tongue sticking out), putting the MitD entirely in an area of complete dark/black. Also note that, in the time since the strips this is a flashback to, there have been a few art upgrades and so that detail is less likely to be due to the sketchy/"deformed" (Haley's words) style of the earliest strips.

Thoughts?
We did discuss this with reference to the planks in the circus. Nothing came of it that time. Good luck.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Thoughts?

Two of 'em:

1) It's a drawing clue. As such, it is subject to the same uncertainties of every other drawing clue.

2) I doubt it means much. The darkness is not connected to MitD that we know of, so the fact that magical impenetrable darkness is drawn with an horizontal or vertical gradient is of little consequence. Presumably, the gradient is generated with some ease by Illustrator, and any artifacts are consequence of the tool, rather than a fact about MitD or the magical darkness that surrounds him (at least, until such time as someone comments upon it in-comic).

As to why we only see the eyes, the answer is that we shouldn't see them, but they are drawn because that allows Rich to express MitD emotions. By RAW, a creature standing in the last square of magical darkness can see out, but no-one can see into the darkness, not even to spy the silhouette.

Grey Wolf

[ReaderAt2046]

Two of 'em:

1) It's a drawing clue. As such, it is subject to the same uncertainties of every other drawing clue.

2) I doubt it means much. The darkness is not connected to MitD that we know of, so the fact that magical impenetrable darkness is drawn with an horizontal or vertical gradient is of little consequence. Presumably, the gradient is generated with some ease by Illustrator, and any artifacts are consequence of the tool, rather than a fact about MitD or the magical darkness that surrounds him (at least, until such time as someone comments upon it in-comic).

As to why we only see the eyes, the answer is that we shouldn't see them, but they are drawn because that allows Rich to express MitD emotions. By RAW, a creature standing in the last square of magical darkness can see out, but no-one can see into the darkness, not even to spy the silhouette.

Grey Wolf

I think his point was about non-magical darkness.

[SavageWombat]

Wouldn't it be interesting if the MitD got an art upgrade too? One with hints?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Wouldn't it be interesting if the MitD got an art upgrade too? One with hints?

Oh, definitely. Seeing if there are any changes to what we can see of the MitD in the new art is one of the things I really want to see. I'm also beating that whatever it is, his new form will look totally awesome in the new art.

[Bird]

Oh, definitely. Seeing if there are any changes to what we can see of the MitD in the new art is one of the things I really want to see. I'm also beating that whatever it is, his new form will look totally awesome in the new art.
Interesting that the art-upgraded Monster out of the Darkness is the only Monster out of the Darkness we'll probably ever see in the main strip--assuming he's of a species that hasn't appeared before.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Interesting that the art-upgraded Monster out of the Darkness is the only Monster out of the Darkness we'll probably ever see in the main strip--assuming he's of a species that hasn't appeared before.

I was thinking the same. It would be kind of funny if some sort of mystery remained after the reveal.

[Hacktor]

Edit: Nevermind .... here stood a "maybe it's GRUE" post before I read section 3... :D

[JoeG]

I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.

Rich didn't invent MitD. His niece / granny / room-mate made something up tongue-in-cheek and Rich liked it so much he decided to use it.
:tongue:

Or, the MitD emerged (templated or otherwise) from a RPG campaign Rich was aware of / participating in. It would be possible for someone to figure out the MitD... but only one of those players.

(Actually I think this quote is just Rich's usual self-reflective philosophy, musing on the fact that a fictional monster is still a fictional monster whether he created it or someone else did... hence the "fine line"... and, further, that although there is a fine line someone [ahem] pondering and philosophising over the fundamental nature of the universe and literature will figure out what that line is, rather than someone will figure out MitD.)

[AgentPaper]

Rich didn't invent MitD. His niece / granny / room-mate made something up tongue-in-cheek and Rich liked it so much he decided to use it.
:tongue:

Or, the MitD emerged (templated or otherwise) from a RPG campaign Rich was aware of / participating in. It would be possible for someone to figure out the MitD... but only one of those players.

(Actually I think this quote is just Rich's usual self-reflective philosophy, musing on the fact that a fictional monster is still a fictional monster whether he created it or someone else did... hence the "fine line"... and, further, that although there is a fine line someone [ahem] pondering and philosophising over the fundamental nature of the universe and literature will figure out what that line is, rather than someone will figure out MitD.)

That sounds like the kind of fan-trolling only Andrew Hussie is capable of. So unless Rich has secretly been Andrew Hussie all along, no. :smalltongue:

[Bird]

Rich didn't invent MitD. His niece / granny / room-mate made something up tongue-in-cheek and Rich liked it so much he decided to use it.
:tongue:

Or, the MitD emerged (templated or otherwise) from a RPG campaign Rich was aware of / participating in. It would be possible for someone to figure out the MitD... but only one of those players.

(Actually I think this quote is just Rich's usual self-reflective philosophy, musing on the fact that a fictional monster is still a fictional monster whether he created it or someone else did... hence the "fine line"... and, further, that although there is a fine line someone [ahem] pondering and philosophising over the fundamental nature of the universe and literature will figure out what that line is, rather than someone will figure out MitD.)
Not sure whether your parenthetical is meant to be taken entirely seriously, but I don't think your interpretation is supported by what he wrote. He states early that "Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since." This creates context which establishes that the mystery is in fact "what the monster is," not "what the line between something I made up and something someone else made up" is.

[halfeye]

Not sure whether your parenthetical is meant to be taken entirely seriously, but I don't think your interpretation is supported by what he wrote. He states early that "Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since." This creates context which establishes that the mystery is in fact "what the monster is," not "what the line between something I made up and something someone else made up" is.
Right. If it's out of copyright, it's old, older than Mickey Mouse. Which leaves us with Lewis Caroll, myth, and the stories Cervantes railed against (which sound like fine fantasy, if in need of translation).

[JoeG]

Not sure whether your parenthetical is meant to be taken entirely seriously, but I don't think your interpretation is supported by what he wrote. He states early that "Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since." This creates context which establishes that the mystery is in fact "what the monster is," not "what the line between something I made up and something someone else made up" is.
Oh there's no doubt he knows what the MitD is, and that he's happy to generate fan interest on the point, and that that's the general point of the post.

But I genuinely believe that closing separate paragraph is Rich's self-reflective philosophical muse, not a specific hint about the MitD. He often muses like that in his prefaces and so forth... mixing discussion of OotS specifically with muses about the creative process, story telling, the nature of fiction in general, how all this reflects on real life and so forth. I'd read that many times and never once thought he meant anything other than a wry "my fiction, someone else's fiction ... amusement that one would be considered legitimate and the other would be cheating".

[JoeG]

(sorry, "ps" for clarity ... I'm just quoting and commenting on that "fine line" *last* one-sentence paragraph. But yes explicitly the MitD as he said is not just invented out of his own head for OotS so certainly it can be found elsewhere.)

[b_jonas]

Rich didn't invent MitD. His niece / granny / room-mate made something up tongue-in-cheek and Rich liked it so much he decided to use it.

No. The same quote from Rich definitely excludes this. Recall,



I will say this much: It is possible to guess.
That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.


The monster the Giant's room-mate has invented is not possible to guess, and it wouldn't be any fun if it was the answer to the mistery.


Right. If it's out of cpyright, it's old, older than Mickey Mouse. Which leaves us with Lewis Caroll, myth, and the stories Cervantes railed against (which sound like fine fantasy, if in need of translation).

We've already mentioned lots of other works whose copyright have expired. Even I have mentioned one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17147449&postcount=1165) or two, though they're not really good matches.

[happycrow]

I have a query -- is it possible that Rich's "fine line" comment might be interpreted as authorial spin? For instance, we pretty clearly have "vampires" (which somebody else invented) and "vampires as used in OOTS," which is Rich's. That *could* be an admonition for us not to get too technical (except for fun) while we try to guess, and maybe instead simply to focus on what best fits the big iconic scenes as we get the list of "things that this dude could be."

(I still think "my Daddy's a big eater" has got to be a hugenormous hint, but darned if I can really come up with anything beyond my already-shot-down which fits the bill).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I have a query -- is it possible that Rich's "fine line" comment might be interpreted as authorial spin? For instance, we pretty clearly have "vampires" (which somebody else invented) and "vampires as used in OOTS," which is Rich's. That *could* be an admonition for us not to get too technical (except for fun) while we try to guess, and maybe instead simply to focus on what best fits the big iconic scenes as we get the list of "things that this dude could be."

(I still think "my Daddy's a big eater" has got to be a hugenormous hint, but darned if I can really come up with anything beyond my already-shot-down which fits the bill).

Rich's vampires are D&D vampires. Mechanically, they are certainly the same, and as far as the whole possession thing goes, I believe there is something in Libris Mortis indicating that is what happens. Admittedly, I don't have LM, so I can't be certain.

[Kish]

That said, I do think the creature in the darkness will most likely wind up fitting whatever he is as well as a succubus who can drain with any touch rather than needing a kiss or "act of passion" and has an innate Plane Shift fits "D&D succubus," or a paladin with Evasion fits "paladin," rather than carefully crossing the i's and dotting the t's of an entirely-by-the-book creature.

[Atomburster]

Hang on. If Xykon regularly casts Cloister, wouldn't that mean that Vaarsuvius was unaffected by it? Although O-Chul should have been affected by it.

Unless RC's greater dispel or Xykon's Superb Dispel eliminated the cloister effect..

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Hang on. If Xykon regularly casts Cloister, wouldn't that mean that Vaarsuvius was unaffected by it? Although O-Chul should have been affected by it.

Unless RC's greater dispel or Xykon's Superb Dispel eliminated the cloister effect..

I fail to see what this has got to do with MitD, so, in short:

V was affected by it. He needed an epic teleport to punch through. Once inside, though, Cloister does not stop you from teleporting out, so it would not affect O-Chul, except inasmuch as he would still be under the effect for things like locating him through magic for a few weeks after the escape.

Grey Wolf

[Crusher]

That said, I do think the creature in the darkness will most likely wind up fitting whatever he is as well as a succubus who can drain with any touch rather than needing a kiss or "act of passion" and has an innate Plane Shift fits "D&D succubus," or a paladin with Evasion fits "paladin," rather than carefully crossing the i's and dotting the t's of an entirely-by-the-book creature.

A paladin with 2 levels of monk and wearing the correct armor could certainly have Evasion.

[Murk]

I know it isn't relevant, since the Giant said it long before strip 100 (around 52) and it directly contradicts Start of Darkness, but I found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=486300&postcount=54) sweet little sentence: "[...]he didn't create goblins or ogres, but he did create zombies and ogre zombies and whatever is in the shadows there."
Which, I think, is funny. That's all. *Hides in shadows again*

(Psst, how does one link to one specific post?)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

(Psst, how does one link to one specific post?)

Right-click the post number on the top right hand corner, select "Copy Link Location"

GW

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I know it isn't relevant, since the Giant said it long before strip 100 (around 52) and it directly contradicts Start of Darkness, but I found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?7328-The-Order-of-the-Stick-April/page2) sweet little sentence: "[...]he didn't create goblins or ogres, but he did create zombies and ogre zombies and whatever is in the shadows there."
Which, I think, is funny. That's all. *Hides in shadows again*

(Psst, how does one link to one specific post?)

Interesting that he would say that. I wonder what he had imagined MitD to be before he finally settled on what it actually is.

[DaggerPen]

Interesting that he would say that. I wonder what he had imagined MitD to be before he finally settled on what it actually is.

Huh! That is really interesting. Possibly some type of construct, more likely some type of undead, but I doubt he's either now.

[ti'esar]

So when the Giant said that anything prior to strip 100 or so shouldn't be considered a clue to the MitD's identity, there actually were specific clues? Huh.

[Throknor]

So when the Giant said that anything prior to strip 100 or so shouldn't be considered a clue to the MitD's identity, there actually were specific clues? Huh.

He said nothing in the strip before 100 contradicts what it is. While its personality became refined that doesn't affect what it physically is. I doubt he was thinking of one random early post of many when we was writing that.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

He said nothing in the strip before 100 contradicts what it is. While its personality became refined that doesn't affect what it physically is. I doubt he was thinking of one random early post of many when we was writing that.

That, or the Giant was referring solely to the strip, not the forums.

[2.5 cats]

Not sure if this has been discussed already, or is sufficiently on-topic, but, as we saw in, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html , Kraagar's gate is protected by "the nastiest monsters in the world."

I wonder...

Was the MitD orginally stationed there at Kraagar's gate, and somehow escaped/got lost/was kicked out?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not sure if this has been discussed already, or is sufficiently on-topic, but, as we saw in, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html , Kraagar's gate is protected by "the nastiest monsters in the world."

I wonder...Was the MitD orginally stationed there at Kraagar's gate, and somehow escaped/got lost/was kicked out?

(Please don't spoiler that kind of thing. What would be the point? This thread is already awash with spoilers)

It has been discussed, but as a hypothesis it doesn't do much to advance the purpose of the thread - i.e. what MitD actually is*. That said, it has historically not been a particularly well-liked hypothesis, regardless of its explanatory power. People seem to prefer either "his dad is in Kraagar's gate" or "a member of MiTD's species of marrying age and of the appropriate gender to MitD's sexual preference is in Kraagar's gate".

Yours,

Grey Wolf

*ETA: by which I mean: that's why it's not in the OP. But feel free to discuss it, by all means.

[lothos]

Hello,
It's been a long time since I posted anything substantial to this thread. I've been looking in and reading from time to time, but I didn't feel I had much to contribute.

However I was thinking about MitD a couple of days ago and particularly thinking about the fact that psionic teleport doesn’t require the "caster" (manifester) to go along for the ride, like the arcane spell teleport does. I started thinking about powerful psionic monsters.

I have a new candidate I'd like to propose for consideration - The Psionic Version of the Illithid Elder Brain.

Although initially it seems a very weird idea, I think it mostly fits the big scenes and I can't find it in the first post of this current version of the thread. Apologies if this has already been considered and rejected. I did a forum search (now the search is back), but couldn't find any mention of this in this thread or any of the previous ones.

In keeping with other suggestions I make (e.g. Dread Linnorm) it has the wrong number of eyes. As far as I can tell, the Elder Brain has zero eyes, not two… but passing over that problem, here is how I think it fits the big scenes:

1) Has a plausible explanation for the Escape

The psionic version of the elder brain, from page 145 of "Lords of Madness" specifically lists "Psionic Greater Teleport" as a "typical" 7th level power of an elder brain. The arcane version of the elder brain (for campaigns not using psionics) lists Teleport (the regular, non grater one that's 5th level) as a typical spell.

The psionic version has the obvious advantages that the elder brain wouldn't need to move when he moved his friends to safety. Plus of course, being greater teleport, it's much more feasible to get to the western continent, the range being unlimited on the same plane for greater teleport, but being 100 miles per level for regular teleport.

Online, here (http://www.lomion.de/cmm/eldebrai.php) is an example of the psionic version of the elder brain. This doesn't quite match up with the powers and abilities in "Lords of Madness", but it's close. It does have psionic teleport, but not psionic greater teleport.

However here (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Elder_brain) is a basic description of the "magic" version which has the spell casting of a 20th level sorcerer.


2) Has a plausible explanation for the Tower (both his attack and his defence)

The Elder brain has some quite formidable defences, which Miko (in strip 374 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html)) wouldn't be able to overcome easily:

AC30
Damage Reduction 15 / adamantine
Regeneration 10

We have no evidence what Miko's weapons are, but there's no reason to believe they are adamantine. Same goes for Belkar in strip 477 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html).

The attack part of the tower scene is problematic. The Elder Brain in Lords of Madness only has a strength of 13, very low. I'd want a strength up in the 50's maybe for the smash through the wall. It does however have +20 to melee attacks with improved grab, so maybe it might just be plausible ? I don't know if a +20 attack means it's hits harder, or just more accurately ?


3) Has a plausible explanation for the Circus (both his act, and the reactions)

It looks like a large brain with tentacles coming out of it… I think that's a reasonable explanation. People would feel sick.. and it's got enough hit dice (26 hit dice) that the Knowledge (Dungeoneering) check to identify it might well be high enough to confuse the guy in robes in the audience to say "I've never seen anything like it".

4) Isn't one of the impossible categories (unless it is an exception)

It's not a deity. It's not undead. It's not an elemental. It has a physical body. Although it doesn't explicitly say it can become an undead creature, we know that mind flayers themselves can become undead. So it's reasonable to assume it's possible, even if Elder Brains don't normally need to become undead (because they live basically forever). It's size and creature type is "Large Aberration".

It does have limbs - tentacles. They could "stomp" in strip 477 and hold the rope at the gobbotopia ceremony in strip 701 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html).


5) Existed before strip #100 in a form accessible to Rich.

They have existed since 1st Edition AD&D at least. I used to play 1st Edition and I remember a reference to them in an adventure I ran once as a DM, though I'm afraid I can't provide a citation.

However looking for them in 3.5 source books, I can only find it so far in "Lords of Madness", which was published in April 2005, which is after strip #100. The detailed statistics are on page 144, but there is a great deal of fluff text around page 88.

I can tell you for certain though that they existed in earlier editions. I remember one being in an Illithid community in 1st edition.

One also featured in the book by R.A Slavatore "Exile" published in 1990 (link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_%28Forgotten_Realms_novel%29) to Wikipedia Article). During that book Drizzt Do'Urden gets "zapped" by some mind flayers and ends up being a thrall to the elder brain, massaging it's cerebral tissue all day. With his high dexterity, the elder brain values him enormously, loving the delicate touch he has massaging the brain's cortex.... that's why his brain doesn’t become lunch for a mind flayer right away and of course eventually escapes....

So while it's arguable if Rich would have known about the content of Lords of Madness at Strip 100, there is perhaps 20 years of history of Elder Brains existing before then, so Rich definitely could have known of them and their general characteristics even if the specific 3.5 edition statistics didn't exist until after strip 100.

6) Size no bigger than Huge ("fits in the box")

The size in Lords of Madness is "Large", so that fits. The fluff text says it's "8 to 10 feet in diameter". If MitD is an infant of some kind, he might be smaller than this.

7) Is vulnerable to mind-affecting effects (SoD)

Despite it's amazing psionic powers and high will save (+24) it's not listed anywhere that I can see as being immune to mind affecting powers. So I'm pretty certain an elder brain is NOT immune to mind affecting effects. This is the case both for the psionic and the "magic" version of the elder brain.


There's a few other things I think support this idea:


a) It has a C.R of 25 - Definitely Epic enough that Xylon could consider it powerful enough to destroy the order of the stick and more powerful than an ancient silver dragon.

EDIT- I'd like to correct this statement. I just checked. An ancient silver dragon has a C.R of 26, one more than that of the Illithid Elder Brain at 25. Sorry. It's still pretty powerful though.... more than our old friend the Tarrasque at a C.R of 20, so I don't think this is a huge issue...)

b) It has a high knowledge (the planes) skill at +38.. so it would know about the Astral Plane in strip 833 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html).

c) It has a high spellcraft and/or psicraft skill at +42, so it would easily recognise "The stupid half of the ritual" from strip 700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html).

d) While it's strength (13) is pitiable if we think the earthquake was caused by pure physical strength, there is a psionic power "stomp" and there's - is there a psionic earthquake ?

e) When using it's non teleporting movement modes, it apparently conveys itself on it's tentacles. That would leave weird tracks that Belkar might well not be able to identify in strip 474 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html).

f) The normal environment is a pool of briny water underground, so the stereotyped big game hunters could be surprised to find it in the jungle.

g) There's no languages listed for the Elder Brain. They normally communicate telepathically. So arguably, the stereotyped big game hunters could be surprised to hear it speaking Common. On the other hand, you might argue that it doesn't have the right body parts (e.g. a mouth) to communicate verbally. The description doesn't say that it does or does not have a mouth, but just like eyes, there's no mouth shown on the picture.

h) High Intelligence (28) means it could learn "Go" very quickly.


There are several issues:

1. There's no reason to believe it has any eyes. The description doesn’t say it does NOT have eyes, but it doesn’t seem to have a face. The description suggests it's a brain with tentacles. Maybe it has glowing tips of the tentacles that look like eyes… but this seems a stretch because you would expect them to wave around independently, rather than always being together on the same horizontal level.

2. The life cycle of the Elder Brains is a mystery. So his Father could mean anything...

3. The Elder Brain does eat… but it normally eats the mind flayer "tadpoles" in it's briny pool. Arguably, you could even call these "babies", the one thing we know MitD won't eat… Maybe he left his Mind Flayer community because he didn't want to "eat babies". I think this is also a bit of a stretch.

4. Elder Brains have a fly speed. So it might not have left any tracks at all in strip 474 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html). Or I guess you could say it was trailing it's tentacles across the ground and those are the tracks that Belkar saw and couldn't identify.

4. The very low strength (13) doesn’t feel right for the tower scene attack. Though it has the +20 melee attack, my understanding is that this doesn’t necessarily mean it hits hard. Just that it's good (accurate) at hitting it's target. Am I wrong ? Does the +20 to melee attack imply it hits hard too ?

5. The wisdom is 25, which is lower than it's intelligence, but does seem higher than we would expect from the apparent naiveté that MitD displays.


-------------------------

So in summary, it's not a perfect fit. But it is a powerful creature (CR25) that is NOT immune to mind affecting spells, neatly explains the circus scene, is capable of being made in to undead (in theory), does eat (kind of), can very neatly explain the escape scene, can neatly fit the defences in the tower scene and could STOMP (as a psionic power) to explain the earthquake.

Pity it (probably) doesn't have any eyes.

I'm not saying it is a frontrunner, but I'd like to suggest it for consideration.

Cheers.

[Bird]

What a cool suggestion! Thank you for all the work you put into that post. I enjoyed reading it, and I think your proposal deserves serious consideration.

Thanks for bringing up Drizzt-and-the-Elder-Brain, too, which I'd completely forgotten about. Heh.


4. The very low strength (13) doesn’t feel right for the tower scene attack. Though it has the +20 melee attack, my understanding is that this doesn’t necessarily mean it hits hard. Just that it's good (accurate) at hitting it's target. Am I wrong ? Does the +20 to melee attack imply it hits hard too ?
Unfortunately, you're not wrong. A 20th level halfling rogue with the big attack bonus isn't knocking people across the room with her dagger. She's just better at stabbing.

A big attack bonus does allow you to funnel more damage into power attack, but that doesn't help in this situation. I think The Tower really does require huge strength, or some other trick that an attack bonus on improved grab just isn't going to simulate.

[lothos]

What a cool suggestion! Thank you for all the work you put into that post. I enjoyed reading it, and I think your proposal deserves serious consideration.

Thanks for bringing up Drizzt-and-the-Elder-Brain, too, which I'd completely forgotten about. Heh.


Thanks :-)
Yes, I remember shortly after I had read Exile, a friend of my DM'd an adventure involving a load of Mind Flayers. The moment we knew Illithids were involved, another member of our group who happened to be playing an elf said "No way am I becoming a brain massager".... we had all read the book :-)



Unfortunately, you're not wrong. A 20th level halfling rogue with the big attack bonus isn't knocking people across the room with her dagger. She's just better at stabbing.

A big attack bonus does allow you to funnel more damage into power attack, but that doesn't help in this situation. I think The Tower really does require huge strength, or some other trick that an attack bonus on improved grab just isn't going to simulate.

I thought that was the case, but never having actually played 3rd edition (or 2nd, or 4th), I thought I'd better defer to those with more knowledge than me.

Sad to say, that plus the lack of eyes probably rules it out :-( Oh well....

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I like this suggestion, and how you listed the pros and cons of it. However, I do think that low strength is fairly damaging, as well as it not having an update until Lords of Madness*, and, as far as I can tell, only communicating via telepathy.

*Admittedly I don't play any of the early editions, so perhaps someone could help inform me on how different they are.

[ChristianSt]

and, as far as I can tell, only communicating via telepathy.

actually I would say that is even a plus point. If it normally only communicates via telepathy, there is a real reason why the SBGHs are surprised that it can talk. (see Section 2b: Abilities, Speech in the OP)

[rweird]

It seems like a decent fit, but lack of eyes are a problem, and it cannot adequately explain the tower scene (no way to hit them through a wall, unless there is some power it has I'm missing). Bonus to hit is just how accurate you are, not how strong.

[brian 333]

Elder Brains are sessile and dependent upon the pool of cerebral fluid in which they live, so having one wandering around behind Xykon would be a difficult feat. Then there is the fact that an Elder Brain is composed of the brains of the community of mind flayers and retains their knowledge and memories, so one would never have a childlike state and thus never have a childlike state of mind, as MitD does.

However, there are several offshoots of the Mind Flayer race which could qualify as the MitD, including the dread Neothelid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illithid) or, in its immature state, the Larval Flayer. In fact, the Larval Flayer comes to mind as the prime candidate for MitD, (powerful, childlike, tentacled horror and nobody knows what it is,) except for its stated aversion to eating babies. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0549.html)

But there is one factor that has been left out of the Illithid equation which is that no form of Mind Flayer has rainforest as its preferred habitat, and MitD clearly became aware of his existence in a rainforest where his 'dad' (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html) resided, and he was there long enough to know his dad ate a lot.

[ReaderAt2046]

RE: The Elder Brain:

I actually don't think that the low Strength is that much of a problem. From what I understand, telekinesis (psionic or otherwise) will cover that situation handily and it's quite possible that something like this Elder Brain would think that TK was the correct thing to use in a hitting contest.

And as I understand it, the fact that an Elder Brain really shouldn't be in a rainforest is a point in its favor, since the SBGH were surprised to find the MITD there.

[brian 333]

RE: The Elder Brain:

I actually don't think that the low Strength is that much of a problem. From what I understand, telekinesis (psionic or otherwise) will cover that situation handily and it's quite possible that something like this Elder Brain would think that TK was the correct thing to use in a hitting contest.

And as I understand it, the fact that an Elder Brain really shouldn't be in a rainforest is a point in its favor, since the SBGH were surprised to find the MITD there.

How do you account for MitD's childlike behavior? An Elder Brain begins with the memories of a Mind Flayer Adult, possibly a venerable adult. There is never a stage of its life cycle where it has less than the full knowledge of an adult Mind Flayer, and so it can never be a child. They are, by definition, the elders of the Mind Flayer Race.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

RE: The Elder Brain:

I actually don't think that the low Strength is that much of a problem. From what I understand, telekinesis (psionic or otherwise) will cover that situation handily and it's quite possible that something like this Elder Brain would think that TK was the correct thing to use in a hitting contest.

It's a game of "hit the lightest", not "push the lightest". Hitting requires physical contact. Telekinesis doesn't fit the description given. Now, we don't see the actual action taken by MitD agaisnt Miko, but I would expect some kind of lampshading of the fact he had not actually hit her if he had pushed her through a wall with his mind.

Grey Wolf

[Bird]

How do you account for MitD's childlike behavior?
Brain damage.

[rweird]

It's a game of "hit the lightest", not "push the lightest". Hitting requires physical contact. Telekinesis doesn't fit the description given. Now, we don't see the actual action taken by MitD agaisnt Miko, but I would expect some kind of lampshading of the fact he had not actually hit her if he had pushed her through a wall with his mind.

Grey Wolf

Also, telekinesis couldn't easily break the wall (as 15d6 isn't very much damage too a wall, but Milko would hardly count as a large dense object, or weigh 375 pounds, and horses in general weigh to much to be thrown, while bull rushes can't break objects, making telekinesis not a good mechanical substitute for brute force either.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

actually I would say that is even a plus point. If it normally only communicates via telepathy, there is a real reason why the SBGHs are surprised that it can talk. (see Section 2b: Abilities, Speech in the OP)

Oh, shoot, you're absolutely right. Yeah, scratch that remark.

[lothos]

Brain damage.
I don't think that phrase has ever applied more literally to any creature.......
:-)

EDIT - Actually I'd like to suggest something else - maybe his infantile behaviour and lack of knowledge about Illithid society are simply a result of him being an "Infant Elder Brain", even though that sounds like a contradiction. There's no information in Lords of Madness about the reproduction cycle of elder brains. I haven't found any in any other source.

There's no evidence either way, but what I imagine happening is either that the Elder Brains never reproduce at all, or that they in some way "bud off" a "child" elder brain. We know that they can produce "Brain Golems" which are bits of their tissue that obey their mental commands and wander around doing stuff for the elder brain. The creation of those is described as the elder brain budding off a small portion of it's mass to make the brain golem. I could imagine that if they wanted to, they could bud off a "child" the same way. Now that's definitely not supported by any source, it's just my speculation.

However I don't think it's impossible to believe that if Rich had decided that MitD was an elder brain child, that he could have decided "Well, I'm just going to fill in some gaps in the life cycle of this creature and assume that there's some way they have children, whatever that way is".

I could then believe that this might account for the behaviour of MitD..

Although of course, the low strength and lack of 2 eyes are still such a serious problem that we can probably conclude that MitD is not an elder brain.

Cheers.

[SavageWombat]

I don't remember where I remember this from, but I think the illithid grow an elder brain from something, by feeding it more brains.

[lothos]

Hey,
Just one more thing. I decided to just read some random articles about elder brains while I was waiting for a server to reboot at work.

I was reading this article: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/eldebrai.php
About halfway down, in the section on "Combat", there is this passage:

If death is imminent, an elder brain relinquishes its hold on the Prime Material Plane and withdraws completely into the Astral Plane, where the bulk of its mass resides. Once it transports itself in this way, an elder brain loses its anchor to the prime and becomes trapped on the Astral Plane – a rogue creature without ties to its community. It is uncertain what becomes of a rogue elder brain; however, illithid communities that lose their elder brain swiftly fall apart.

Look, I know there's still the issue of eyes and the low strength, but as a really crazy idea, what if MitD was a Rouge Elder brain. Because he lost his ties to the illithid community, he lost his memory of what he was and all his powers... then somehow ended up in a Jungle... Doesn't really address who his "Dad" is I know.

But it also might explain how he knows what the Astral plane is like.

I don't know if this online source is based on an officially published source, or if it did, when such a source was available. However if Rich did use this source as the basis for MitD being in the Astral Plane, it wouldn't have needed to be available in 2004, only recently....

It's probably not relevant, but I thought I'd just mention it as a crazy idea.

[brian 333]

I always assumed Elder Brains were what happened to an ancient Illithid which had no way to reach his community's Elder Brain. Basically as the Mind Flayer grows older its body grows weaker, but its mental capacity, especially its psionic power, continues to grow. Eventually, desiring to merge with an Elder Brain but having no access to one, it creates a pool into which those Mind Flayers under its control toss brains and it lives there while its body atrophies and its brain undergoes metamorphosis to become the new Elder Brain.

Having looked for the information due to this topic, I cannot find it online, and I no longer have access to my ancient Underdark modules, (stupid little brothers with sticky paws...) I can only conclude that this concept comes from long nights of dungeon delving and conversations about the how and why of things, and so, while I will continue to consider this a possible method, I will not consider it either canon or the only method possible for the reproduction of Elder Brains.

[b_jonas]

I have a new candidate I'd like to propose for consideration - The Psionic Version of the Illithid Elder Brain.

1. There's no reason to believe it has any eyes. The description doesn’t say it does NOT have eyes, but it doesn’t seem to have a face. The description suggests it's a brain with tentacles.

I do think an Elder Brain has eyes. It's a brain afterall, so it would have the two eyes attached to the brain still functional. The Elder Brain is created from the brain of a squid thingy, which seems to have eyes even in OotS (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0030.html).

However, how would an Illithid Elder Brain deal with the lawyers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html)? Isn't it still product identity and its name trademarked and whatever?



But there is one factor that has been left out of the Illithid equation which is that no form of Mind Flayer has rainforest as its preferred habitat,

Remember strip #564? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0564.html) "Have you ever read an encounter table? Nothing surprises me anymore." "I once fought 1d3 dire camels in a swamp. No joke."

[Bird]

However, how would an Illithid Elder Brain deal with the lawyers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html)? Isn't it still product identity and its name trademarked and whatever?

I won't/can't comment on what is product identity or trademarked. I will only provide the observation that the Giant sells a certain t-shirt (http://www.cafepress.com/orderofthestick.1189529438) at cafepress with a recognizable creature on it, which is referred to in the shirt description as a "squidyface monster."

[Crusher]

The fluff all seems very workable to me. If a rogue Elder Brain got stuck on the Astral Plane and then somehow budded off an offspring it would fit perfectly. Also, I think its a good fit for the Circus and Escape scenes, and its defenses are probably adequate.

Unfortunately, we're still back to the "punching" part of the Tower Scene. As GW notes, Telekinetic pushing or a 13 STR don't really seem like good answers. Which is a shame, because its actually pretty good other than that. And possibly the whole "has to live in a special puddle" thing, if that's a real problem.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

And possibly the whole "has to live in a special puddle" thing, if that's a real problem.

There's a reason he likes stew...:smallbiggrin::smallwink::smalltongue:

That said, we know MitD has a tongue, and eyes, neiher of which a disembodied brain is likely to have, although we did see at one point a brain with a bird's beak, IIRC (could someone find me the link?)

Grey Wolf

[Bird]

There's a reason he likes stew...:smallbiggrin::smallwink::smalltongue:

That said, we know MitD has a tongue, and eyes, neiher of which a disembodied brain is likely to have, although we did see at one point a brain with a bird's beak, IIRC (could someone find me the link?)

Grey Wolf
Not sure if you mean a specific link, but you're describing a grell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grell_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29).

http://www.dotd.com/mm/grell.gif

[b_jonas]

That said, we know MitD has a tongue, and eyes, neiher of which a disembodied brain is likely to have, although we did see at one point a brain with a bird's beak, IIRC (could someone find me the link?)


I still think a disembodied brain is likely to have eyes. But you're right, the MitD has teeth that make a bite mark, which seems pretty impossible for a brain.

Update: Bird: nice observation, yeah, with that squid thingy on the shirt.

[Don Ohnic]

I am intrigued by the elder brain proposal, as it ticks so many boxes. However, the poor fit for the tower scene is a major problem with the theory, as commented above. Yet the psionic powers of the illithid/mind flayers/squid thingies fits the escape scene so well. So I had an idea that has been lurking in the back of my head for a few days.

The MitD could be the Adversary, legendary result from a faulty ceremorphosis where the illithid ”will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This "Adversary" would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an illithid” (quote from the wikipedia entry that brian 333 linked to earlier in this thread, Illithids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illithid))

If the host is a babylike, slow-aging, very strong monster, with earthquake abilities, the host would account for DR and hitting power, and maybe the surprise from BGH. The illithid’s prionics would account for the escape scene, with psionic teleport or psionic greater teleport. The illithid version of a strong baby monster also fits the circus scene, in my opinion, as it is very uncommon for illithid’s to ceremorph with other than normal-sized humanoid creatures, according to the same wikipedia source as above.

I also think tha Adversary fits the wording of the fine line, as it is definitely not made up by Rich, although Rich most certainly must have decided which creature is the host of the illithid, and how the Adversary works in OotS-world.

One more thing, this could also explain why Xykon and Redcloak expects MitD to be more scary than he is. They expect a LE illithid creature, although the Adversary in this case would be a baby monster, yet with illithid powers.

Now, I don’t really know the rules for the illithid ceremorphosis. I think this theory works best if an already powerful illithid tride to morph with tha baby monster, and faild to form the Adversary. I do not know if this is possible, according to the rules. Maybe the best fit would be a failed ceremorphosis of an elder brain and a baby monster; yet again I do not know if the rules would allow that.

Please comment, I fully expect there to be severe problems with this theory.

All the best.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not sure if you mean a specific link, but you're describing a grell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grell_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29).

I have seen it drawn OotS-style, so I was hoping someone would remember where, and link to that (it's either a stand-alone joke or a page punchline, IIRC. Maybe connected to the flumphs?)


I still think a disembodied brain is likely to have eyes.
The grells are a counter to this particular point; sorry, I should've linked to the original statement to make it clear I was answering it. In any case, here is a disembodied brain with no eyes, so there is no reason to think the elder brains need to have them. We have had other proposals whose lack of eyes is an unknown, since most creatures's fluff don't mention eyes even when they do have them, so how is one to know? I believe that official pictures of the thing don't have eyes, and when in doubt we tend to consider them more "official" than the lack of mention in the description. YMMV and all that, I'm just talking as OP-maintainer.


The MitD could be the Adversary, legendary result from a faulty ceremorphosis where the illithid ”will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety.

Does anyone have a link to a standalone write-up of this?

In any case, taking it at face value, I'd say it would be a candidate for an entry in the augmentation section, equivalent to a half-illithid half-strong creature or to the psionic template on a high-CR creature.

Grey Wolf

[b_jonas]

The grells are a counter to this particular point; sorry, I should've linked to the original statement to make it clear I was answering it. In any case, here is a disembodied brain with no eyes, so there is no reason to think the elder brains need to have them. We have had other proposals whose lack of eyes is an unknown, since most creatures's fluff don't mention eyes even when they do have them, so how is one to know?


Yes, you're right of course. I'm surprised that disembodied brains are illustrated like this, but that's how it is. It's not the most important problem with the transcended squid thingy anyway.

[lothos]

re: The Adversary

.......Does anyone have a link to a standalone write-up of this?

In any case, taking it at face value, I'd say it would be a candidate for an entry in the augmentation section, equivalent to a half-illithid half-strong creature or to the psionic template on a high-CR creature.

Grey Wolf

According to this (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Illithid#Legends) page, the details were in a 2nd Edition module called "Dawn of the Overmind". The relevant section is:


In the 2nd Edition AD&D adventure Dawn of the Overmind, author Bruce Cordell revealed the nature of the Adversary. This being was an illithid created from the host body of a man named Strom Wakeman, a character referenced in some of Cordell's other 2nd Edition works, most notably as the "author" of The Illithiad supplement.

Wakeman, an enterprising trader and scholar of Underdark exotica, allowed himself to be captured by the illithids on one of his expeditions. Through the use of a non-magical mixture of various herbs that Wakeman named laethen, he was able to preserve his consciousness through ceremorphosis, and learned to use his psionic powers to keep from having to consume brains. Thus he worked against the illithid plots from within. The legend of the Adversary was born from his frequent sabotage, though the actual acts were never connected to him. The players' characters in the adventure become his agents in stopping the illithids' plans, as his own movements rely upon secrecy from his "fellow" illithids.

For another person to imitate Wakeman's deed would require at least one dose of laethen (the making of which Wakeman kept secret) and to be put under ceremorphosis within a week of consumption. The drug only has a 40% chance of success, and the new illithid must also never consume a brain, for the act destroys the host's personality and replaces it with the illithid personality.

The thing is, even if we think that MitD is "The Adversary", he would have powers similar to a regular Illithid, though without the alignment. An "base" Illithid has a C.R of 8, according to P187 of Monster Manual 1. Such a creature couldn't explain "Escape", or either part of the tower scene, nor would it have a high spellcraft or knowledge (the planes), both of which I think are good explanations for the strips where he knows about the "half ritual" or the nature of the Astral Plane.

There is an example of a 9th level Illithid Sorcerer, with a C.R of 17. However I don't know that I'd really think MitD is a monster who just happens to have (say) 18 levels of Sorcerer to explain the Escape with Wish. (Or I guess 14 ? levels of Psion to get Greater Psionic Teleport, or whatever level a Psion needs to be to get that power/spell). I'm personally of the opinion that this doesn't constitute something we could reasonably guess with the evidence we have.

Also, if we assume that MitD is some other creature (not a human) who took this potion and then deliberately got a mind flayer tadpole put in his ear, then we need to determine what the "base" creature was in that case. So I don't think this that useful, but I guess it's worth considering.

[rweird]

If he had 14 levels of sorcerer, he wouldn't need 5 levels of cleric to be able to cast Animate Dead.

[lothos]

If he had 14 levels of sorcerer, he wouldn't need 5 levels of cleric to be able to cast Animate Dead.

Wouldn't that depend on what spells he had chosen as a sorcerer ?

A couple of years ago, when the Escape scene first happened. I spent some time looking through various Monster Manuals for creatures with enough levels of Sorcerer spell casting levels as an inherent part of their make-up to be able to cast Wish (so not just added on as an example of an advanced version of the creature). That's what originally drew my attention to the dread linnorm.

When considering Escape, my own feelings (which I know others in this thread share) are that a spell like ability is the best explanation, then the 2nd best explanation is the ability to either manifest psionic powers, or equally well, to cast spells spontaneously (Sorcerer, Favoured Soul, Bard).

I suggested a few threads back that levels of any class that involve preparing spells just don't sit right with me an explanation for Escape, because of what Rich said in the S.O.D commentary about how MitD discovered he had powers he didn't even know he had.

So I do think it's possible MitD has levels of Sorcerer somehow (just doesn't have any Necromancy spells that allow him to animate dead). Conceivably he could have levels of favoured soul, but I never found a single monster that has levels of favoured soul listed as part of it's abilities. He could easily have levels of Psion or some other posionic class. But if he does have levels of any of those, then I don't think Rich added them on as an augmentation or to "advance" the creature.

If we allowed such creatures, why not say MitD is <<any creature that looks weird, that eats and sleeps>> with 20 levels of Psion, Sorcerer or Favoured Soul (or theoretically Bard with Sublime Chord....). I don't think such a creature is something we could reasonably guess..

Cheers.

[rweird]

Sorcerers get to replace 1 spell known with another of the same level every even numbered level after 2nd, meaning he'd only need to get two levels of sorcerer, so a more appropriate comment would be "Unless you changed your spells known."

[brian 333]

As an added piece of info to confuse the mix:

Of all the characters in OotS, MitD knows that what everyone is calling gates are not gates at all (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html), something the protagonists are just beginning to realize.

This would mean that MitD is, at the least, capable of sensing actual Gates, and quite likely innately attuned to Astral activity. Or not, it may be unrelated. However, MitD continually repudiates the idea that what they are seeing is in fact a gate.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As an added piece of info to confuse the mix:

Of all the characters in OotS, MitD knows that what everyone is calling gates are not gates at all (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html), something the protagonists are just beginning to realize.

This would mean that MitD is, at the least, capable of sensing actual Gates, and quite likely innately attuned to Astral activity. Or not, it may be unrelated. However, MitD continually repudiates the idea that what they are seeing is in fact a gate.

This idea is new, but your logic does not follow. Assuming for a second that it is not a running joke - a big assumption - note that whatever you want to call the rifts, that was not what Xykon was pointing at when the first comment was made. Xykon was pointing to a large, wooden barrier in the shape of a gate that he had put in front of the actual gate/rift to stop his zombies from frying themselves on the defences left behind by Dorukan.

Why MitD was incapable of understanding that the wooden structure is a gate (again, assuming not a joke) has nothing to do with astral tuning, because the wooden gate itself is not in nay significant way connected to the astral plane. The best explanation so far other than "joke" is that MitD does not know the meaning of gate, which might be because he think gate is the magical doorway to other places. Since we know he has been or has seen the Astral plane before, it is possible he knows what the magic gate is because he has used one before and does not know what a regular gate is because he has never seen one before the one in Dorukan's dungeon.

Grey Wolf

[Crusher]

I've been toying around with various possibilities, none of them working out, and by accident I came across an old one and I'm pondering if we gave it short-shrift. It certainly got serious consideration, but it was a pretty decent candidate and I'm thinking its time for a reconsideration.

Anyway, without further ado, I re-present the Glabrezu (not that I was the one who originally presented it, I'm just doing the re-presenting). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm

I'm also going to re-do my usual presentation style in favor of the new 7 point test from the FBS listing on the front page:

1 - Escape Scene - Glabrezu can grant a wish to a humanoid mortal once per month. A few panels before the actual disappearance, MitD says to O-Chul "O-Chul, you need to get out of here! He's gonna be really mad when he gets back!" and O'Chul says "Agreed. We must..." and he's interrupted when Xykon smashes through the wall to get to them. Xykon chews the scenery a bit and then MitD blathers a bit, and he ends by saying "...You gotta leave right now!" to which O-Chul replies "Gllrck!" because Xykon's bony hand is in O-Chul's mouth. O-Chul could have been saying something like "We need to escape!" which MitD understood because Glabrezu's are telepathic, MitD dug deep, and discovered he had the ability to grant O-Chul's wish.

This is nice in a couple ways. First, Glabrezus cannot grant their *own* wishes, which is why MitD's later attempts to Wish or Teleport things didn't work. Also, Glabrezus grant wishes in ways that cause trouble to the recipients. This is a stretch, but as a result of the escape, O-Chul was immediately tasked with spending weeks if not months riding a shark, an animal he had just spent weeks if not months being tortured by.

2 - Tower Scene - 31 STR is just barely over the minimum, DR 10/good. Paladin weapons are not considered innately good-aligned until Paladins reach level 14, which Miko probably was not.

3 - Circus Scene - A Pit Fiend is all-around a better candidate than a Glabrezu *except* for this part. A Pit Fiend looks pretty much like a standard picture of a Devil/Demon, but a Glabrezu is pretty weird looking. An interpretation like this: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/107/3/8/glabrezu_by_vegasmike-d622krv.jpg is scary and weird looking but doesn't automatically scream "demonic", plus has a 20 CHR.

4 - Impossible category? Nope, Demon is not an impossible category

5 - Existed before strip #100? Yep

6 - No larger than "Huge"? Its Huge and pretty much pushing the limits of MitD's maximum allowable size

7 - Vulnerable to mind-affecting effects? Certainly

A lot of the rest of the points are pretty well trodden already, but I'll sum them up quickly.

Pros
- Demon in a jungle would be a surprise
- Demon speaking common would be a surprise (Glabrezu's are telepathic, and are listed as speaking Abyssal, Celestial and Draconic)
- Originally we weren't sure that demons ate or had parents in the Stick-verse which were considered problems, but we've had demons refer to eating and having parents since then so we know its possible
- Decently smart and wise (16 INT and WIS), but not genius level which actually seems appropriate. Sure, MitD picked up Go very quickly, but that's by the perspective of O-Chul who, while awesome, probably didn't actually put much into INT or WIS himself. If O-Chul is, say, INT 10, WIS 12, a 16/16 would seem pretty impressive. If MitD was solidly Epic and sported mental stats in the 30s, even not thinking for himself MitD would come across as borderline god-like in terms of insight and intellect. While its hinted MitD is smart, O-Chul doesn't really seem awed.
- Has teeth, correct number of eyes, etc
- Physically strong, but has pincers on the end of the 2 "big" limbs, making it a little tricky to grab things without slicing through them or be very nimble with them. Also wasn't there a point on the coloring book where it looked like MitD might arguably have 3 or more limbs? 2 pairs of "arms" would work here.
- Ranks in Knowledge and Spellcraft

Cons
- Comes from a morality plane. In some ways this is actually the biggest issue, that MitD would *have* to be an embodiment of Chaotic Evil. Don't really have an explanation for this.
- CR13 is a little low and wouldn't be a major threat to the Order, today. On the other hand, the OotS were all only level 9 back in strip #100. Back then, CR13 would have been plenty impressive and would have worked fine as a major threat.

Anyway, thought this might be worth food for thought.

Edit - Various edits for clarity

[rodneyAnonymous]

Earthquake stomp?

Could continuous true seeing have something to do with the "what gate?" thing?

[Crusher]

Nothing specific other than STR.

Edit - Also realized, as a very minor Pro, Glabrezus have Persuasive as a racial trait, giving them +2 to Bluff and Intimidate checks, which could help explain how MitD talked Xykon and Redcloak into not finishing the Order off at the pyramid.

[lothos]

Sorcerers get to replace 1 spell known with another of the same level every even numbered level after 2nd, meaning he'd only need to get two levels of sorcerer, so a more appropriate comment would be "Unless you changed your spells known."

I hadn't considered that, so good point. However I think it's important to consider that in this thread we are not necessarily a typical reader of the comic. We are pouring over every minute detail of every panel that MitD has been in, or referenced in. Although Rich certainly knows we are here, I don't think he writes the comic just for us.

I think that even if MitD does get his powers like "Escape" from the ability to cast spells as a sorcerer (or favoured soul, or bard, or spirit shaman), then even though those classes can switch out a spell every even numbered level, I don't think Rich is likely to make Redcloak's speech bubble become as large as Celia's and the other lawyer here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0282.html) to allow for the possibility that what Redcloak said could be technically disputed as incorrect in this thread.

I mean, I could be wrong. I don't have any special insight in to what Rich thinks, it just seems to me that he wouldn't do that. That's just my [humble] opinion of course.


....the Glabrezu (not that I was the one who originally presented it, I'm just doing the re-presenting). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm.....

I do like point #1 in particular, neat that it can grant others wishes, but not it's own. However regarding the terms of the wish, the link on the SRD website you mention says this:
Once per month, a glabrezu can fulfill a wish for a mortal humanoid. The demon can use this ability to offer a mortal whatever he or she desires—but unless the wish is used to create pain and suffering in the world, the glabrezu demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation.
I'm not sure that does fit well with what happened. I read what you said about him having to then ride a shark for ages... but I don't think that is causing "Pain and Suffering in the World"... Perhaps you can hand wave it away by saying "Oh, but MitD is a reformed Glabrezu who isn't evil"... maybe.

One other thing, it has knowledge (any two) +18. That could be Knowledge (The Planes) and Knowledge (Arcana). Also it has +18 spellcraft. This could explain knowledge of the Astral plain and the "Stupid Half Ritual".

They apparently have violet eyes, not yellow... probably not a critical problem.

C.R 13 seems too low to me.. but maybe.

Interesting idea.

[rweird]

I hadn't considered that, so good point. However I think it's important to consider that in this thread we are not necessarily a typical reader of the comic. We are pouring over every minute detail of every panel that MitD has been in, or referenced in. Although Rich certainly knows we are here, I don't think he writes the comic just for us.

I think that even if MitD does get his powers like "Escape" from the ability to cast spells as a sorcerer (or favoured soul, or bard, or spirit shaman), then even though those classes can switch out a spell every even numbered level, I don't think Rich is likely to make Redcloak's speech bubble become as large as Celia's and the other lawyer here to allow for the possibility that what Redcloak said could be technically disputed as incorrect in this thread.

I mean, I could be wrong. I don't have any special insight in to what Rich thinks, it just seems to me that he wouldn't do that. That's just my [humble] opinion of course.

Assuming Red Cloak correctly knows what the MitD is and its effective [spontaneous caster] level, he could just as easily say "Unless you learned Animate Dead recently, no." (Which would still be ambiguous to whether he can cast spells, but still be concise), or he could say "Unless you gained another [1 or two depending on even or odd number of levels originally, or when he'd get another 4th level spell known] level in [class] and learned animate dead, no." Which is hardly massive.

I think it more likely would be him not remembering that [class] can A) Cast animate dead, or B) Change its spell list, or by far the most likely, C) Doesn't have spellcasting.

[lothos]

............or by far the most likely, C) Doesn't have spellcasting.
So would it be fair to say that your saying that you think only a Spell Like Ability is a reasonable explanation for Escape ? Are you suggesting that if MitD had the ability to cast spells - from any source, such as inherently having 18 levels of Sorcerer, or having 18 levels of Psion, as part of his monster description, then that would mean Rich would have phrased Redcloak's speech differently ?

Or are you just saying that we can rule out "Monster X with an additional 18 levels of Sorcerer, or other spell casting class, added on to the 'normal' version of the creature" ?

If you are saying the first one, then that's a reasonable position, though I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion myself.

If you are saying it's the second one, then I agree, but not because of what Redcloack said about animating undead, instead I just think we couldn't possibly guess it, so it would violate how I understand Rich's comments about "It is possible to guess"...

Or perhaps you are saying something else, in which case, I apologise for misunderstanding.

I think an SLA is the best explanation for "Escape", but it's my opinion that "inherent" levels in a spontaneous casting class (Those that every monster of that type has) are a possible explanation (wish or Psionic Teleport being best), just not quite as good as an SLA.

[Qwertystop]

I would assume that Redcloak losing an eye partly because of the escape doesn't count as "pain and suffering"? Nobody ever said it had to be suffering for Good creatures.

[Crusher]

I do like point #1 in particular, neat that it can grant others wishes, but not it's own. However regarding the terms of the wish, the link on the SRD website you mention says this:
I'm not sure that does fit well with what happened. I read what you said about him having to then ride a shark for ages... but I don't think that is causing "Pain and Suffering in the World"... Perhaps you can hand wave it away by saying "Oh, but MitD is a reformed Glabrezu who isn't evil"... maybe.


Yeah, I've seen the description of the Wish vary a bit in different places. At least one source (though I don't remember which one), described the Wish as more along the lines of, if it wasn't a wish for a clearly evil purpose it would be fulfilled in a way that resulted in trouble. There was an example of a blacksmith wishing for great talent and success. As soon as the wish was fulfilled, the local lord (a cruel psycho) immediately hears how great the smith is, captures the smith, and makes the smith only work for him.

I mean, that's bad and all, but its a little underwhelming as far as "evil twists" go (as opposed to something like turning the smith's children into the hammers he had to use, requiring him to heat his forge with human souls, or something else really dreadful). Spending a few weeks riding a shark felt like a reasonably decent comparison.

It does back-handedly suggest the Glabrezus are perhaps the "B" team when it comes to cleverly manipulating and corrupting people.



Glabrezu: "And while I will grant your wish to become master of all things cold, you phrased your wish poorly and there will be an EVIL PRICE TO BE PAID!"

Wishing Person: "OH NO! WHAT HAVE I DONE?"

Balor: (nods approvingly)

Glabrezu: "You must eat Popsicles until you get a cold-headache to fuel your power! BWAHAHAHAHA!"

Wishing Person: "Um... yeah, ok."

Balor: (facepalm)

[brian 333]

Given the literal use of phrases when spellcasting or using special abilities:

:vaarsuvius: I memorized Explosive Runes this morning.
:haley: Sneak Attack Bitch!
:xykon: Greater Magic Missiles. And more Greater Magic Missiles.

I find it difficult to believe that a Wish spell could be cast without using the word Wish in the phrase. We have MitD using several powers, (Earthquake Stomp, Stop, Escape, etc.) without using the word Wish.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Given the literal use of phrases when spellcasting or using special abilities:

:vaarsuvius: I memorized Explosive Runes this morning.
:haley: Sneak Attack Bitch!
:xykon: Greater Magic Missiles. And more Greater Magic Missiles.

I find it difficult to believe that a Wish spell could be cast without using the word Wish in the phrase. We have MitD using several powers, (Earthquake Stomp, Stop, Escape, etc.) without using the word Wish.

Selective memory fallacy, I'm afraid. We have been told that you do not need to shout sneak attack, that's just an affectation. IIRC, Xykon didn't say the name of the mind-control spell he used on MitD. And Laurin definitely doesn't say the spell names aloud.

So, depending on what you decide for Xykon, at the very least SLAs and psionics can be done without mentioning the actual spell name, and likely neither do sorcery spontaneous casting.

Grey Wolf

[rweird]

lothos: I would say it can't have levels, or effective levels in a spellcasting class that has Animate Dead on its spell list (so Psion would be fine, as it can't cast Animate Dead, IIRC, as would bard, druid, Ranger, Paladin, etc). Spell-like abilities are fine, although technically, Wish/Miracle/Reality revision (the most likely, IMO) to be able to do that, would be able to animate the dead, I'd assume Redcloak doesn't want the MitD to A) Start making wish-esques or the like in its childish way for unknown consequences, B) Didn't remember that the MitD can/didn't want to take the time to explain, C) The wish-esques are in some way limited and not to be wasted on something as trivial as animating zombies, or D) Doesn't know the MitD can use said ability, and is in some way incorrect about what he thinks it is.

Then again, it could be Teleport and happening to roll well or something along those lines, and not a Wish-ish ability at all.

Grey_Wolf_c: For components, by RAW, most spells have a verbal component. Psionics and SLAs don't. Actual casting tends to follow that rule, although it at times is broken, either because Rich forgets, or for rule of drama and concise storytelling.

[lothos]

lothos: I would say it can't have levels, or effective levels in a spellcasting class that has Animate Dead on its spell list (so Psion would be fine, as it can't cast Animate Dead, IIRC, as would bard, druid, Ranger, Paladin, etc). Spell-like abilities are fine, although technically, Wish/Miracle/Reality revision (the most likely, IMO) to be able to do that, would be able to animate the dead, I'd assume Redcloak doesn't want the MitD to A) Start making wish-esques or the like in its childish way for unknown consequences, B) Didn't remember that the MitD can/didn't want to take the time to explain, C) The wish-esques are in some way limited and not to be wasted on something as trivial as animating zombies, or D) Doesn't know the MitD can use said ability, and is in some way incorrect about what he thinks it is.

Then again, it could be Teleport and happening to roll well or something along those lines, and not a Wish-ish ability at all.

That's a very reasonable position and I see the logic in your argument. I'm not sure I share your conclusion, but I can't argue with what you are saying.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


<<description of how the Glabrezu is so bad at deciding what constitutes a terrible and evil price>>

I have never heard of a Glabrezu until you brought it up, so I have no opinion on if this is really how they behave, but I would like to make two observations.

1. In favour of this, is that back from strip 103 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0103.html), we do know that MitD is rather bad at being evil.

2. Against the idea of him being a Glabrezu, if he is an evil outsider, it's harder for me to believe that O'Chul has moved him to a path of good over the course of his interaction with monster-san.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Earlier today, I had another idea. I borrowed some 3.5 edition books from a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago (how I looked up the Elder Illithid Brain). I wanted to draw the thread's attention to a template that I don't think has been mentioned so far (I couldn't find mention of it in section 2d of the first post of this thread).

Have we previously discussed the "Sanctified Creature" template from page 187 of the Book of Exalted Deeds ?

I know many people feel that template stacking isn't a good explanation for MitD, however I wanted to flag a couple of things in this template that might be important.

1. This template apparently has a consequence of changing a creatures eyes. The actual block on "creating a sanctified creature" doesn't say that, but the example creature, a sanctified red dragon is described thus:
A Sactified red dragon looks virtually identical in form from it's evil kin, except it's eyes glow like pools of golden radiance and it keeps itself neatly groomed.

So initially I was thinking if we were considering the Glabrezu and it had purple eyes, perhaps we should consider a sactified one... unfortunatly according to the template this template can't be applied to evil outsiders.

Even so, maybe some other creature (one that has eyes, so probably not an elder brain) might have this template applied, so it would mean it had glowing golden eyes.

2.This template grants tongues as an always active supernatural ability. So that might explain how he was able to speak common to the stereotyped big game hunters when they found him, even though "one of these" normally doesn't. They would not necessarily notice he was sanctified because his appearance would be almost identical to a normal creature of his type (apart from maybe his eyes). So they might well say "one of these" even though he is a templatated creature. Also, the base creatures environment dosn't change, so it would still be unusual to find it in the jungle.

3. The C.R of the creature increases by +1, so it would be a fraction more powerful than it's normal counterparts. I don't think this matters much, but it might be considered slightly more dangerous.

4.The Book of Exalted Deeds was published in 2003, so before strip 100.

There's one problem with this template for MitD. The fluff text says that "Many sanctified creatures feel a burning desire to purge their past evil deeds by performing selfless and heroic acts....". Although it doesn't say ALL sanctified creatures do this, it's not really what we see MitD doing.

Cheers.

[Jay R]

They apparently have violet eyes, not yellow... probably not a critical problem.

The MitD's eye color was determined before Rich knew what it was. This could easily be an inaccuracy that he couldn't fix.

I'd be much more concerned about something that happened later that didn't fit.

[lothos]

The MitD's eye colour was determined before Rich knew what it was. This could easily be an inaccuracy that he couldn't fix.
That's certainly possible... or he decided that he would make the creature he chose have the sanctified template so it did match. Either is possible. I just thought the fact that the template made this change was neat.

I'd be much more concerned about something that happened later that didn't fit.
Agreed.

[DaggerPen]

To add to the verbal component bit, Redcloak and Miko also both heal themselves sans verbal component during their battle (see here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html ), and on the page before Xykon kills the guard with a spell sans verbal component. So it's pretty common for spells to be cast without verbal component for the sake of drama or page flow.

[rweird]

To add to the verbal component bit, Redcloak and Miko also both heal themselves sans verbal component during their battle (see here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html ), and on the page before Xykon kills the guard with a spell sans verbal component. So it's pretty common for spells to be cast without verbal component for the sake of drama or page flow.

Milko, conceivably is using Lay on Hands, Red Cloak, on the other hand, is unlikely to have silent healing spells prepared.

[b_jonas]

Why MitD was incapable of understanding that the wooden structure is a gate (again, assuming not a joke) has nothing to do with astral tuning, because the wooden gate itself is not in nay significant way connected to the astral plane. The best explanation so far other than "joke" is that MitD does not know the meaning of gate, which might be because he think gate is the magical doorway to other places. Since we know he has been or has seen the Astral plane before, it is possible he knows what the magic gate is because he has used one before and does not know what a regular gate is because he has never seen one before the one in Dorukan's dungeon.

Yes, thinking "gate" refers to a magical gate is a good explanation. But I still claim that no, we don't know that the MitD has seen the Astral Plane before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293047-MitD&p=17174110&highlight=astral#post17174110).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes, thinking "gate" refers to a magical gate is a good explanation. But I still claim that no, we don't know that the MitD has seen the Astral Plane before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?293047-MitD&p=17174110&highlight=astral#post17174110).

Which is a perfectly logical conclusion to draw. Gate need not take you to the Astral Plane, after all - MitD could have been Gated to any other Plane, thus still knowing the spell by name but without having been to Astral Plane. Now IF someone thinks MitD has been to the Astral Plane AND if someone is of the "MitD only calls gate to the spell" camp, THEN it is a small step to conclude he may have used Gate to travel through the Astral Plane in the past. But if you reject either conjecture, the thread falls apart.

Grey Wolf

[Kruploy]

{scrubbed}

[DaggerPen]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Attention everyone spending hours on end analyzing the plotline of a fictional stick figure story about a D&D world two systems out of date:

You are analyzing the wrong thing, and thus no matter that you clearly are enjoying yourselves, you are wasting your time.

Perhaps now that you have realized this, you can move on to more productive activities like stepping into long-running threads and harshing their buzzes, too. I hear the Class and Level Geekery thread still thinks the characters have stats!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

We are essentially waiting for more information. To pass the time, we are looking over previous entries and examining new ones to see if we missed something, since neither we not you can be certain that we've examined every possible candidate yet.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/rock_band.png

(link (http://xkcd.com/359/))

GW

[Crusher]

I'm sad I missed the actual post. Just as well, I suppose.

[Peelee]

I'm sad I missed the actual post. Just as well, I suppose.

Samesies, but having Grey Wolf post a topical XKCD strip made up for it.

[AgentPaper]

I'm sad I missed the actual post. Just as well, I suppose.

It's basically exactly what you're imagining.

[thatSeniorGuy]

I'm sad I missed the actual post.

Don't be. It'-


It's basically exactly what you're imagining.

Yeah that. GW, I'm very impressed by the way you handled that, but then again you've had a lot of practice I suppose :smalltongue:

[Kruploy]

Erm; I didn't have any malicious intentions though I see how my post could be interpreted that way lol.

I suppose I did come off as somewhat condescending, apologies for that buzz.

Anyway; did you guys actually get anywhere yet?

What's the progress?

[ChristianSt]

Erm; I didn't have any malicious intentions though I see how my post could be interpreted that way lol.

I suppose I did come off as somewhat condescending, apologies for that buzz.

Anyway; did you guys actually get anywhere yet?

What's the progress?

If you mean "does this thread progress in what it wants to achieve?", then yes, this thread does it all the time.

If you mean "is this thread close at revealing what the MitD is?", then no. Because that isn't really the goal this thread has, because no one (other than Rich) can say whether we have figured it out or not.

[Murk]

If you mean "does this thread progress in what it wants to achieve?", then yes, this thread does it all the time.

If you mean "is this thread close at revealing what the MitD is?", then no. Because that isn't really the goal this thread has, because no one (other than Rich) can say whether we have figured it out or not.

Well, through the history of this thread, there have been quite a lot of creatures who we're pretty sure are not the MitD. Of course we could be mistaken, when the Giant suddenly reveals the MitD is the Son of Snarl, but that's a rather farfetched situation.
So, yeah, we made progress, partially through the list of No's.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, through the history of this thread, there have been quite a lot of creatures who we're pretty sure are not the MitD. Of course we could be mistaken, when the Giant suddenly reveals the MitD is the Son of Snarl, but that's a rather farfetched situation.
So, yeah, we made progress, partially through the list of No's.

We have to be careful about this, though. Just because to Murk and Grey Wolf there is a bunch of creatures that cannot possibly be the MitD (e.g. centaur), that doesn't mean that such conviction is common across all participants (e.g. Psammead). Every creature in the first page was proposed by someone. Sure, in many cases they were proposed in full knowledge that they didn't fit all the clues (Crusher, as usual, springs to mind as our most successful contributor) but instead proposed because they were close or offered an interesting twist on how they approached the clues, both of which are very useful to the thread as a way to foster discussion and further knowledge of MitD. But in other cases, the creatures were proposed with sincere belief that they were MitD, regardless of how far-fetched they seemed to others, and our worst flamewars have consistently happened when those beliefs were challenged. I do not keep track of which creatures were proposed for what purpose (it would likely be impossible to do so, anyway), so all creatures in the front page should be treated as equal - yes, some fit better or worse, but in many ways such fitness is an exercise in subjective judgement that is to be taken with certain amount of caution as to how extended such judgement is shared.

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[Ron Miel]

Has anyone suggested that he's a Pooka?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%BAca

- A fairy creature with magical abilities.

- Shapeshifter, he might appear differently to different people.

- has the power of human speech

- Whatever form he uses, he's usually covered in dark fur. Good for hiding in shadows.

- Has glowing yellow eyes.

- Some are known to devour humans, while others have a benevolent nature.

- even the benevolent ones may have a terrifying appearance.

- Hungry - will devour all your crops if you don't harvest them on time

- can devastate the land (with an earthquake?) unless you leave a pooka's share of the crop.