Oversized twf question [3.5]

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys, I'm curious, if I have oversized two weapon fighting, do I add my full str bonus to attack rolls with a one handed weapon in my off hand?

[Sir Chuckles]

Nope. Still just the half.

[Teapot Salty]

Nope. Still just the half.

So the feat still sucks then?

[Sir Chuckles]

So the feat still sucks then?

From an optimization standpoint? Yes.
From a flavor "I am swinging two +1 Balanced Greatswords!"? Nope.

With TWF (again, from optimization), your damage isn't coming from the weapon itself, but hopefully your +11d6 Sneak Attack. At that point, it doesn't matter if you're using a Bastard Sword, a Candelabra, or your fist.

[Darrin]

So the feat still sucks then?

It may be useful if you want to add Power Attack damage to your offhand weapon (it only counts as light for determining the attack penalties for TWF). And there are several one-handed weapons that could be very cool paired up:

Dual Dwarven waraxes.
Dual flindbars.
Dual spinning swords.

Or go full-out bugman: thri-kreen, diopsid, or insectile template. Cavestalker 4 lets you wield a spiked chain one-handed.

But yeah, from an optimization standpoint, not a great feat.

[da_chicken]

Hey guys, I'm curious, if I have oversized two weapon fighting, do I add my full str bonus to attack rolls with a one handed weapon in my off hand?

Not sure if you mistyped or not. Your attack rolls with TWF use your full strength modifier for both hands (they always do; no feat is required). It is only your damage modifier for your off-hand weapon that is halved. OTWF does not change that at all. OTWF just allows you to use non-light weapons in your off-hand at -2/-2 instead of the normal -4/-4. If you're a TWF Fighter, this feat is certainly better than burning more feats on a light off-hand weapon.

Oversided TWF allows you to use a bastard sword in your off-hand, though, which is essentially +1d4 damage with your off-hand attacks without having to purchase a Sun Blade. There are some Prestige Classes that allow you to get full off-hand Strength mod. Tempest (Comp Adv), Bloodclaw Master (Bo9S), and Revenant Blades (PGtE). They're limited to certain weapon types, however (dagger or scimitar).

[toapat]

OTWF just allows you to use non-light weapons in your off-hand at -2/-2 instead of the normal -4/-4. If you're a TWF Fighter, this feat is certainly better than burning more feats on a light off-hand weapon.

its not -4 damage to offhand when wielding Non-light weapons. Its -4 to hit with both limbs. This mattered more in 3rd when you had to declare handedness. In other words its only a +2 bonus

[Grayson01]

its not -4 damage to offhand when wielding Non-light weapons. Its -4 to hit with both limbs. This mattered more in 3rd when you had to declare handedness. In other words its only a +2 bonus

Off-handedness still counts in 3.5 there the Penalities for your off-hand are greater if you do not have TWF

Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8

And also the post you quoted did show it was -4 for both hands "-4/-4" is the way that is displayed.

[toapat]

Off-handedness still counts in 3.5 there the Penalities for your off-hand are greater if you do not have TWF

Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8

And also the post you quoted did show it was -4 for both hands "-4/-4" is the way that is displayed.

the post i quoted was saying that the -4/-4 is attack/damage, which is normally used for Enhancement bonuses/penalties to weapons.

[Grayson01]

the post i quoted was saying that the -4/-4 is attack/damage, which is normally used for Enhancement bonuses/penalties to weapons.

No it was saying that the Damage from your STG is halved for your off hand "It is only your damage modifier for your off-hand weapon that is halved."

Then it went on to explain the -2/-2, -4/-4 to attack that OTWF changes "OTWF just allows you to use non-light weapons in your off-hand at -2/-2 instead of the normal -4/-4."

[Teapot Salty]

Not sure if you mistyped or not. Your attack rolls with TWF use your full strength modifier for both hands (they always do; no feat is required). It is only your damage modifier for your off-hand weapon that is halved. OTWF does not change that at all. OTWF just allows you to use non-light weapons in your off-hand at -2/-2 instead of the normal -4/-4. If you're a TWF Fighter, this feat is certainly better than burning more feats on a light off-hand weapon.

Oversided TWF allows you to use a bastard sword in your off-hand, though, which is essentially +1d4 damage with your off-hand attacks without having to purchase a Sun Blade. There are some Prestige Classes that allow you to get full off-hand Strength mod. Tempest (Comp Adv), Bloodclaw Master (Bo9S), and Revenant Blades (PGtE). They're limited to certain weapon types, however (dagger or scimitar).

I did mistype, thanks for correcting it.

[toapat]

if you ignore the "does not work with offhand or double weapons" clause (which i understand is typical for monkeygrip), is there really any point to OTWF when you have monkeygrip then?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I wouldn't bother using Oversize TWF unless using two Morningstars with Three Mountains and (hoseruled to ignore errata) Melee Weapon Mastery for both piercing and bludgeoning.

Monkeygrip isn't even worth having, get the arcane caster in your party to cast (Lesser Rod of Extended) Greater Mighty Wallop on your weapon if you want higher base damage. Otherwise get the Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan), which allows you to wield a gargantuan warhammer two-handed without penalty regardless of your own size, though it doesn't do much good for TWF.

[da_chicken]

the post i quoted was saying that the -4/-4 is attack/damage, which is normally used for Enhancement bonuses/penalties to weapons.

No, you're way, way off. The post you quoted was referring to the attack roll modifiers for primary/off-hand attacks. Look at the table 8-10 on PHB p 160. The penalty for using two weapons with the TWF feat is -4 attack primary, -4 attack secondary. The shortened format I've seen is -4/-4. The penalty for using two weapons with the TWF feat and the off-hand weapon is light is -2 attack primary, -2 attack secondary. Shortened to: -2/-2. The context of OTWF explicitly removing the penalty for wielding a non-light weapon in the off hand, making TWF penalties go from -4/-4 to -2/-2 should have made it extremely obvious that this is what I was talking about, since exactly nothing we were talking about applies penalties to damage rolls. Off-hand weapons have a smaller bonus, but having a smaller bonus is not the same as a penalty.

[toapat]

Monkeygrip isn't even worth having, get the arcane caster in your party to cast (Lesser Rod of Extended) Greater Mighty Wallop on your weapon if you want higher base damage.

Everything is inferior to magic.

the problem with monkeygrip is it doesnt benefit really anyone moreso then even just the numerical advantage EWPs

[Person_Man]

It's worth considering in certain niche situations. You could using two Spinning Swords or Kusari-Gama (Exotic one handed Spiked Chains), if you wanted reach with TWF. I'm sure there's some kind of Tiger Claw + Power Attack combo that works better with TWF.

But in general, if you want more damage use a two handed weapon. Two Weapon Fighting is to trigger special abilities/Feats dependent on attacks more often (like Sneak Attack, Staggering Strike, Boomerang Daze, etc).

[Darrin]

I'm sure there's some kind of Tiger Claw + Power Attack combo that works better with TWF.


Mostly Greataxe (primary, both hands) + Unarmed Strike (offhand, kick/knee/elbow/headbutt/etc.). Tiger Claw doesn't actually have any one-handed weapons associated with the discipline, just light weapons, natural weapons, and the greataxe.

If you can get your hands on a pair of Sun Blades (DMG version) and add the Morphing property to turn them into a pair of Greataxes that you can wield as if they were shortswords... well then, excelsior my good sir! (Although I'm not quite sure you can Power Attack with those... shortsword = light weapon.) Lesser sunswords (EtCR version) don't quite work that way by RAW.