How Would YOU Carry a Stronghold Space?

[unseenmage]

In the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook there is described the Stronghold Space. A room of some material or another roughly 20 feet by 20 feet by 10 feet tall.
Also in said book are the rules for Wondrous Architecture. Basically discount Wondrous Items that aren't meant to be carted about by adventurers.

I want to know what the *best* way to carry a Stronghold Space, Wondrous Architecture and all, around with you is?

Enveloping Pit? Shrink Item? Hefted with the pureness of your Str score?
Which is best, cheapest, earliest, and which is coolest?

Edit:
It would seem we need some basic stats if we're to compare methods for accomplishing this goal.
I imagine the average Stronghold Space being made of stone. That and it wouldn't do to carry about a wooden room only to have it burn up at the first opportunity.
And it's the average Stronghold Space we'll be comparing that way builds with Special Materials in them can have their costs compared to builds with just Str increases and such.

How much do 20'/10' stone walls weigh? A 20'/20' stone floor and ceiling? The lot of them bound together with a few wooden beams and some mortar?
I havn't the slightest clue.

- Heavy-but-Mobile Wondrous Architecture (there are examples of Wondrous Architecture that do not occupy an entire room's volume. Basically big furniture they're more like cheap Wondrous Items than Architecture and don't really fit the spirit of the query.)
- Instant Fortress seems to do the trick in triplicate. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348219-How-Would-YOU-Carry-a-Stronghold-Space&p=17462857&viewfull=1#post17462857)


- Just max out Str and Carry Capacity and heft that bad boy! (This was the ridiculous premise for the thread, still curious if it can be done.) (Apperantly Hulking Hurler builds can accomplish what we need (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348219-How-Would-YOU-Carry-a-Stronghold-Space&p=17462774&viewfull=1#post17462774). Template stacking it is then.)

- Enveloping Pit (The go-to solution to portable Wondrous Architecture since forever. It's a classic to be sure.) (Takes multiple Enveloping Pits to have enough volume. One is too small. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348219-How-Would-YOU-Carry-a-Stronghold-Space&p=17462759&viewfull=1#post17462759))
- Shrink Item: cloth form (Doesn't work as the room is supposed to be a Wondrous Item, however there's a rules interpretation that allows us to suppress the magic of the room and Shrink Item it anyway so it's listed nonetheless.)

- Animate Objects the room itself or some combination of smaller objects to haul it.
- Really big Undead labor
(Neither of the above really allow the "YOU" specified in the thread title to carry the object do they?)

- Teleport/Plane Shift to an immobile Stronghold (Cheating and not what we're after at all, tsk tsk.)

[unseenmage]

So, template stacking Effigy and Incarnate Construct is the only way I can think of to get a creature's Str up high enough to actually lift and carry a 20/20/10 foot stone room.
Is there a better, less cheesey way?

How would one go about making the room carry-able itself? Iron bands around it like a wooden barrel? Encase it in something? Lots and lots of Sovereign Glue?

[Slipperychicken]

Aren't there rules for mobile strongholds?

[Alex12]

So, template stacking Effigy and Incarnate Construct is the only way I can think of to get a creature's Str up high enough to actually lift and carry a 20/20/10 foot stone room.
Is there a better, less cheesey way?
Multiple high-level permanent Tenser's Floating Disk-type effects, maybe?


How would one go about making the room carry-able itself? Iron bands around it like a wooden barrel? Encase it in something? Lots and lots of Sovereign Glue?
Lots and lots of quintessence would be my choice.

[unseenmage]

Aren't there rules for mobile strongholds?

Yeah, but the idea is to carry it somehow.
Ultimately to carry it for cheaper/faster than you could enchant it to move even.

[Slipperychicken]

Make a really big animated-object cart (hopefully made of something strong), and secure the room to that? Probably wouldn't have the strength to move it, but it might be a start.

[unseenmage]

Make a really big animated-object cart (hopefully made of something strong), and secure the room to that? Probably wouldn't have the strength to move it, but it might be a start.

One wonders if the room itself couldn't be Animated Object-ed? Would 20/20/10 be Gargantuan or Colossal creature size?

[Gildedragon]

Enveloping Pit is probably the easiest but also
Moving Home (wheeled and animal drawn, made of ironwood or similar light and strong material, or animated... in which case go for the chicken legs)
Ring Gates (or similar effect) one locked in place at the Stronghold (not moving it with you per-se but always accessible)

[Gildedragon]

One wonders if the room itself couldn't be Animated Object-ed? Would 20/20/10 be Gargantuan or Colossal creature size?

Somewhere between Huge and Gargantuan

[Windstorm]

ring-gates or gemjump is how I usually make use of strongholds while adventuring.

as a DM, at high enough levels I'll usually not worry about players doing similar things, but at low levels usually the stronghold is a way for me to get them to feel invested in something, and just like in minecraft, any absurdly easy to access/build/use structure doesn't have as much intrinsic worth as something that takes effort to build, protect, and flesh out.

Edit: In the spirit of the thread:

as a howdah on an advanced warbeast Roc, or slung underneath a pair of warbeast soarwhales. (flying battleships yo!)

[unseenmage]

Somewhere between Huge and Gargantuan

That's cool actually, I know it takes an epic CL to make a Colossal one so between Huge and Gargantuan is just fine.

However, it occurs to me that the room itself is a Wondrous Item if it has been made into Wondrous Architecture so we'd need to animate a room-around-the-room so to speak in order to get it to move about. And that object might be too big.

[Gildedragon]

Build it of the lightest-strongest material you can find (v. thin riverine springs to mind) Mount it on (separate) wheels and axles. Animate those. Heck a wheel-axle set would even count as a long Large creature.

[unseenmage]

Build it of the lightest-strongest material you can find (v. thin riverine springs to mind) Mount it on (separate) wheels and axles. Animate those. Heck a wheel-axle set would even count as a long Large creature.

Hmm, but then we get into the issue of the Animated Object Wheel & Axel set's Carry Capacity needing to be high enough to haul the Wondrous Architecture'd Stronghold Space.

[Gildedragon]

Hmm, but then we get into the issue of the Animated Object Wheel & Axel set's Carry Capacity needing to be high enough to haul the Wondrous Architecture'd Stronghold Space.

animate several. or boost their strength.

Similiarly, it could be Undead you use to carry your palanquin palace. say 8 half-ogre templated skeletons with boosts to strength.

[Alex12]

Hmm, but then we get into the issue of the Animated Object Wheel & Axel set's Carry Capacity needing to be high enough to haul the Wondrous Architecture'd Stronghold Space.

Not if it's made of riverine, which is as indestructible as a Wall of Force. Weight isn't going to break it. Then you just need something strong enough to drag the whole thing.

[Seerow]

You're looking at this the wrong way. You don't need the whole SS, just the wondrous architecture.

The Wondrous Architecture examples explicitly include things that are mobile, just much bulkier than normal magic items, like armoires, beds, altars, etc. And those things can easily be transported via large extradimensional storage space or a character with high (but non-TO) strength levels.

[unseenmage]

You're looking at this the wrong way. You don't need the whole SS, just the wondrous architecture.

The Wondrous Architecture examples explicitly include things that are mobile, just much bulkier than normal magic items, like armoires, beds, altars, etc. And those things can easily be transported via large extradimensional storage space or a character with high (but non-TO) strength levels.

The goal though is to see if we can manage to TO Str lift an entire room. As well as overcome the challenges of making the room able to be lifted without it collapsing.

Whether it's a room that's found and needs to be removed from a structure or if it's a room custom built for the exercise is up in the air.
Though I'm thinking if we can do one then we can manage the other.

Also, edited the OP to list the suggestions.

[Jeff the Green]

Well, enveloping pit won't work. It's a cylinder with a height of 50 and a radius of 3. Even if the Space doesn't have to be those exact dimensions, the volume is way too low; 20*20*10 is a lot bigger than 32π*50.

[Necroticplague]

As for just lifting the room with pure ridiculous stregnth, look up TO hulking hurler builds, these guys can chuck planetoids as a light load. Half-Minotaur stony lolth-touched feral centaur with the natural heavyweight feat should do the trick. Add levels in warhulk if needed.

For something a bit less silly, I think genesis could solve this. Put the stronghold in a demiplane, and just plane shift to it if need be.

[unseenmage]

Well, enveloping pit won't work. It's a cylinder with a height of 50 and a radius of 3. Even if the Space doesn't have to be those exact dimensions, the volume is way too low; 20*20*10 is a lot bigger than 32π*50.

It's been a while since I read them but i believe the threads that discussed using E. Pits as portable Strongholds opened E. Pits within E. Pits to accumulate the required volume. That and they used the 'not all Stronghold Spaces are precisely this big' reading out of the Stronghold Builder's Guide too. Will edit the OP to reflect that it takes multiple.

[Jack_Simth]

In my pocket, along with two others. Per the Stronghold Builder's Guide, page 43, an Instant Fortress (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#instantFortress) is "essentially three stronghold spaces stacked atop each other."

Mount whatever Wondrous Architecture you require inside it. It's part of the building, it goes with. Makes a great mobile army HQ. Greater Platform of Jaunting, Everfull Larder, Greater Map of Tactics, and then use that clause about the Private Sanctum to anti-scry the whole thing.

[Slipperychicken]

In my pocket, along with two others. Per the Stronghold Builder's Guide, page 43, an Instant Fortress (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#instantFortress) is "essentially three stronghold spaces stacked atop each other."

Mount whatever Wondrous Architecture you require inside it. It's part of the building, it goes with. Makes a great mobile army HQ. Greater Platform of Jaunting, Everfull Larder, Greater Map of Tactics, and then use that clause about the Private Sanctum to anti-scry the whole thing.

The last line of description might be a problem:


The fortress is deactivated by speaking a command word (different from the one used to activate it). It cannot be deactivated unless it is empty.

Although I suppose it depends on whether the Wondrous Architecture is considered to be part of the fortress, or simply inside of it.

[unseenmage]

The last line of description might be a problem:

Use the rules for Combining Magic Items and it shouldn't be a problem.

[Jack_Simth]

The last line of description might be a problem:



Although I suppose it depends on whether the Wondrous Architecture is considered to be part of the fortress, or simply inside of it.
That's covered tangentally on the Stronghold Builder's Guide page 70. It permits things being actually part of the structure.

[dextercorvia]

Well, enveloping pit won't work. It's a cylinder with a height of 50 and a radius of 3. Even if the Space doesn't have to be those exact dimensions, the volume is way too low; 20*20*10 is a lot bigger than 32π*50.

10' square and height of 50' actually.

[Hamste]

10' square and height of 50' actually.

Unfortunately, that still means that the opening isn't wide enough for the room to fit.

[shaikujin]

SBG does mentions that the Stronghold Space doesn't need to be 20x20x10. That is only a guide. It can be 40x10x10 as well iirc. So fit it sideways into the enveloping pit. (Or build a 40 feet high tower.

It also doesn't need to be precisely either 20x20x10 or 40x10x10. It can be of any size required. Iirc they say something along the line of "if you want a very high vaulted, just proceed and don't sweat it".

If you look at the examples, they have Stronghold spaces that don't follow the 20x20x10 average.

[shaikujin]

Btw, if using the enveloping pit, it might be wise to use 3 inch thick wooden walls instead of 3 foot thick stone walls. Or walls of force if cost is not an issue.

The weight of the walls isn't a problem, but four 3 foot walls on eeach side leaves only a very cramped 4 x 4 foot area

[shaikujin]

Apologies for multiple posts-
What if we rip the enchantment off the wonderous architecture and add them to a hand towel using the MIC custom magic item guideline?


Brought to you by the number 42.

[Jack_Simth]

Apologies for multiple posts-
What if we rip the enchantment off the wonderous architecture and add them to a hand towel using the MIC custom magic item guideline?


Brought to you by the number 42.

That's somewhat addressed on page 70 of the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. Essentially, you multiply the cost by somewhere between 4 and 2 (so your number is quite appropriate).

[John Longarrow]

IIRC, strong hold spaces are based on the size of the inhabitant. Just have a Petal have the place built so instead of 20x20x10 its 5x5x2.5. Should be much easier to carry now.

[Bronk]

I would carry a stronghold space by building it into a flying ship, then animating the ship.

[Vortenger]

I carried a stronghold space by parking it in (as, essentially) the bottom floor of a Daern's Instant Fortress. Shrink and place in pocket upon exiting building. (The stronghold space was called the Thundertank. The tower?)

http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/cats-lair-third-earth.jpg

On a smaller scale, of course.

[Phelix-Mu]

Extra points if it involves giant chicken legs and a flying cauldron!

My preferred method would be to get one of the gargantuan or colossal oozes out there and drop an acid-proof room right in the middle of it. Between that one spell in Drow of the Underdark and an amulet of ooze-riding, you should be able to keep the ooze from ejecting the room.

Now, I think we can just smokey confinement the ooze? Yes? No? Might have to shrink it down, first, but if we can construe the room as part of the ooze's equipment, then the room will shrink down with the creature. So, skin of the proteus on the ooze, wham, bam, done and done. (Lol.)

I'm sure there is both a more glamorous and effective way to do this, but I will stand by my ooze-motel!:smallsmile:

Plus, secret hideout inside a massive conflagration ooze? OMG, yes, please, Daddy, I want one for Christmas!

[Muggins]

I'm pretty sure that Khariman Sandiga (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12203753&postcount=311) could pick up and move it if she wanted to.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'm pretty sure that Khariman Sandiga (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12203753&postcount=311) could pick up and move it if she wanted to.

That post was 1000% win.

And it also makes me feel SUPER old. I once went to a live taping of that show. *sigh, grabs walker* Well, time for my pills.

:smallsmile:

[Slipperychicken]

I'm pretty sure that Khariman Sandiga (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=12203753&postcount=311) could pick up and move it if she wanted to.

http://i.imgur.com/OpVhtFG.jpg

[Socratov]

Well, how about making a custom MMM item that least to the same MMM every time you sue it (like the horse statues etc.). build the room and wondrous architecture in the MMM and take the custom item with you (like a golden key).

[unseenmage]

Well, how about making a custom MMM item that least to the same MMM every time you sue it (like the horse statues etc.). build the room and wondrous architecture in the MMM and take the custom item with you (like a golden key).

Please forgive my ignorance but what's MMM?

[otakumick]

just hazarding a guess, but MMM most likely refers to Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion (sp?)

[Slipperychicken]

just hazarding a guess, but MMM most likely refers to Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion (sp?)

Or Mage's Magnificent Mansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesMagnificentMansion.htm), since the SRD can't use the name. It's usually just called "Magnificent Mansion", though.