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Noldo
2014-05-13, 01:55 AM
I am DMing for a group of 3-4 players (depending on how many can make it) and could use some inspiration and advice regarding encounter with a dragon. We are playing MERP, but I don’t think that system or setting is that crucial for the set up. The players (and characters) have so far appeared to be well aware that dragons may be bloody dangerous.

Here is the setup:

The characters followed an orc hunting party and learned that the orcs were after a treasure. When the orcs spent couple of nights to scale a mountain side and establish ropes for the larger ones to follow, the party sneaked ahead of them, using the climbing aids the orcs had established and completing the last part of the cliff during the day while the orcs were sleeping. At the top of the mountain the party found an entrance to an abandoned dwarven stronghold. The entrance was smashed open, although I think that the party did not realize it or at least did not gave much attention to it at that point.

While the party descended into the stronghold, they saw some clues of rather mild wreckage: curtains ripped from the doorframe and a large hole in the side of the tunnel. They got into the right mood and were (out of character) joking that about what they find from the bottom, as the characters heard the heavy breath of a sleeping beast further from the hallway.

That was enough to make the party to avoid the rest of the main hall. They spent some time looking through the common residence where they were, but deducted that any interesting or important parts of the keep were at the other end, where (presumably) a dragon was asleep.

At this point the orcs had managed to complete their journey and the party was alerted by their arrival due a trap the party had left behind. When we adjourned the session, the party was at the ground of the main hall and the orcs were in the passageway that goes alongside the hall near the ceiling. The party had blocked a door that lead from the passageway to the main keep, but there is the huge hole at the side of the passageway through which the dragon had also descended.

The party was planning/hoping that if someone wakes the dragon up, it would be the orcs, since the party assumed that orcs had no idea that there was a dragon. During the ensuing chaos the party would then be able to rush through the treasure horde the dragon naturally has accumulated, pick something that it obviously valuable and interesting and get away to the safety, while being well aware that if they end up confronting the dragon, they are very very likely toasted.
-------------------

My original intention was not to wake the dragon at this point. The party is way too inexperienced to have any reasonable change face the dragon. The intended backstory was that the leader of orc party actually is looking for the dragon, in order to go back to his boss and tell him where such a beauty could be found. Now I would just need a reasonable way for the party to learn about this (unfortunately none of the characters speak black speech, but I have thought to make the leader actually one of the eastern folk, who could then reasonably use their language and one of the characters does speak that).

I actually like the idea that the characters could grab something from the dragon’s horde. This could result in nice story arc if they would continue to investigate who is trying to wake a dragon, learn more about the dragons and at some point learn how overly protective dragons are about their treasure and how a dragon would surely know that something is taken from him, making the group a target later on (I would not mind the party facing the dragon later on).

So please help me to get myself out of the corner I might have painted myself in.

W3bDragon
2014-05-13, 03:20 AM
The issue here seems to be that you don't want the dragon to wake up, yet the PCs' plan (naturally) hinge on waking up the dragon. There are many ways this can be addressed. First, if the orc leader knows that there could be a dragon down here, then he'd have definitely thought long and hard for the duration of his trip about how best to avoid waking up said dragon. Also, since he's here looking for a dragon to go tell his boss, its likely that he'll station some of his orcs at the stronghold to make sure no one messes with the dragon till he has a chance to go back and tell his boss.

As such, the PCs can either just lay low and wait for the orc leader to come in, look around, find the dragon, and depart, leaving some of his orcs behind. At that point, the remaining orcs will serve as good fodder for any plans your PCs might have. Perhaps the remaining orcs themselves are far too tempted by the prospect of a dragon's hoard nearby to leave well enough alone. Some of them could go try to find the dragon's hoard. The dragon could lazily stir, swat the orcs away out of hand, and go back to sleep. This should give the PCs a good indication of what they're dealing with.

Another approach could be that the orc leader with his followers stumble right into the PCs before they have much of a chance to plan. At the first sight of them, with weapons being drawn on either side, he says in hushed tones: "Listen interlopers, I'd gladly slay all of you where you stand. Luckily for you, the is a sleeping creature nearby that would awake at the first sounds of a fight. That would be bad for all of us. So I suggest you count your blessings and be out of my sight before I change my mind. Leave Now!" This allows the PCs to come face to face with the orc leader (hopefully) without any combat ensuing. They might even push their luck and threaten the orc leader that they'll wake the dragon up if he doesn't answer their questions. He might even entertain giving them some answers rather than risk waking up the beast.

If the PCs are hellbent on getting some of the dragon's hoard. They could find some minor baubles scattered about near where the dragon is sleeping. They should be able to get some of those valuables if they're reasonably stealthy. The dragon probably has the vast majority of his hoard hidden somewhere not so easy to sneak into. Perhaps before going to sleep, the dragon dug out a large pit and placed most of his hoard there, then rested on it like a rooster. That would make it impossible for someone to get at the good stuff without waking him up. It would also give you a reason why the dragon wouldn't give chase if someone were to wake him up and run away, since the dragon wouldn't risk leaving his hoard unguarded without preparation.

Jay R
2014-05-13, 12:06 PM
The game is MERP? Here's a crucial quote from the source material:


Dragons may not have any much real use for all their wealth, but they know it to an ounce, as a rule, especially after long possession.

If they take something from the hoard, there will be a dragon looking for them.

Unfortunately, if your players are fairly new to fantasy, then their ideas about dragons are primarily from the recent movie, in which the dwarves are there to do exactly that. You will probably not manage to talk them out of it.

To keep them alive (if that is your goal), you'll need to do exactly what happened in The Hobbit - send the enraged dragon out after a nearby innocent town.

Thrudd
2014-05-13, 01:45 PM
I am DMing for a group of 3-4 players (depending on how many can make it) and could use some inspiration and advice regarding encounter with a dragon. We are playing MERP, but I don’t think that system or setting is that crucial for the set up. The players (and characters) have so far appeared to be well aware that dragons may be bloody dangerous.

Here is the setup:

The characters followed an orc hunting party and learned that the orcs were after a treasure. When the orcs spent couple of nights to scale a mountain side and establish ropes for the larger ones to follow, the party sneaked ahead of them, using the climbing aids the orcs had established and completing the last part of the cliff during the day while the orcs were sleeping. At the top of the mountain the party found an entrance to an abandoned dwarven stronghold. The entrance was smashed open, although I think that the party did not realize it or at least did not gave much attention to it at that point.

While the party descended into the stronghold, they saw some clues of rather mild wreckage: curtains ripped from the doorframe and a large hole in the side of the tunnel. They got into the right mood and were (out of character) joking that about what they find from the bottom, as the characters heard the heavy breath of a sleeping beast further from the hallway.

That was enough to make the party to avoid the rest of the main hall. They spent some time looking through the common residence where they were, but deducted that any interesting or important parts of the keep were at the other end, where (presumably) a dragon was asleep.

At this point the orcs had managed to complete their journey and the party was alerted by their arrival due a trap the party had left behind. When we adjourned the session, the party was at the ground of the main hall and the orcs were in the passageway that goes alongside the hall near the ceiling. The party had blocked a door that lead from the passageway to the main keep, but there is the huge hole at the side of the passageway through which the dragon had also descended.

The party was planning/hoping that if someone wakes the dragon up, it would be the orcs, since the party assumed that orcs had no idea that there was a dragon. During the ensuing chaos the party would then be able to rush through the treasure horde the dragon naturally has accumulated, pick something that it obviously valuable and interesting and get away to the safety, while being well aware that if they end up confronting the dragon, they are very very likely toasted.
-------------------

My original intention was not to wake the dragon at this point. The party is way too inexperienced to have any reasonable change face the dragon. The intended backstory was that the leader of orc party actually is looking for the dragon, in order to go back to his boss and tell him where such a beauty could be found. Now I would just need a reasonable way for the party to learn about this (unfortunately none of the characters speak black speech, but I have thought to make the leader actually one of the eastern folk, who could then reasonably use their language and one of the characters does speak that).

I actually like the idea that the characters could grab something from the dragon’s horde. This could result in nice story arc if they would continue to investigate who is trying to wake a dragon, learn more about the dragons and at some point learn how overly protective dragons are about their treasure and how a dragon would surely know that something is taken from him, making the group a target later on (I would not mind the party facing the dragon later on).

So please help me to get myself out of the corner I might have painted myself in.

I don't see any problem with what is happening.
Your players know that being around when the dragon wakes up is a bad idea. They should know from reading the Hobbit how keen are the dragon's senses.
Let the players do what they want and figure out how to get themselves out of the situation. If they wake the dragon on purpose, they deserve what happens to them. Maybe they'll get lucky and escape. Your orcs obviously are not going to wake the dragon either, or go after treasure, because they are just gathering intel and leaving. When your players see that they are leaving without waking the dragon, they will have to choose to try for the treasure themselves, or follow the orcs to see what they are up to. Then they might overhear them talking about their orders.
If they need to fight their way past the orcs in a hurry in order to escape the dragon, well that would be pretty exciting, too. Whatever happens, let them succeed or fail fairly according to their choices and the fate of the dice.

Slipperychicken
2014-05-13, 03:14 PM
Your players seem aware of the extreme dangers related to dragons. As for the orcs, even they should be smart enough not to confront dragons on a scouting mission.

Do your players know that the nearby orcs are more like a scouting party than the kind of numbers they would need to face a dragon? Also, what "treasure" are the orcs looking for?

Noldo
2014-05-14, 01:35 AM
Many thanks for comments.

The players are quite well versed in fantasy, including Tolkien’s works, but in character their knowledge is limited mostly to vague legends describing dragons are mighty beasts capable of slaying seasoned warriors with ease. So the characters are aware of the danger the dragon presents but are not aware just how keen its senses are (and I would wager that the players also have forgotten that at least to an extent).

The orcs barely outnumber the characters, but due to lethality of MERP the players are quite eager to avoid unnecessary confrontation (during the last two sessions we have had one combat encounter, although I have also tried to enable such an approach).

The party is assuming that the orcs are after the treasures of the keep, since the orcs had a map of the area and were very deliberately trying to get there. The party only heard from one orc that they were after a treasure (the orc was not aware of the actual purpose of the trip at that point), so the party is assuming that the orcs are also surprised to find dragon on top of the treasure.

Jay R
2014-05-14, 10:41 AM
The PCs are avoiding encounters with orcs, due to risk of death, but are planning to wake up a dragon?

Ummm ... my advice to them is to prepare to roll up new characters.

But they aren't asking for advice. The DM is. And the question asked was, "So please help me to get myself out of the corner I might have painted myself in."

Could you be more specific? On my own, I would just riun it as it happens. The PCs have every right to be suicidally stupid.

So what, exactly is the problem you want fixed:

1. I don't want to run a dragon yet.
2. The PCs are about to get themselves killed, and I don't want that.
3. Waking the dragon messes up my orc plot, by eating all the plothooks.

Until we know what you consider the problem, we can't give specific advice.

Noldo
2014-05-14, 02:16 PM
The PCs are avoiding encounters with orcs, due to risk of death, but are planning to wake up a dragon?

Ummm ... my advice to them is to prepare to roll up new characters.

But they aren't asking for advice. The DM is. And the question asked was, "So please help me to get myself out of the corner I might have painted myself in."

Could you be more specific? On my own, I would just riun it as it happens. The PCs have every right to be suicidally stupid.

So what, exactly is the problem you want fixed:

1. I don't want to run a dragon yet.
2. The PCs are about to get themselves killed, and I don't want that.
3. Waking the dragon messes up my orc plot, by eating all the plothooks.

Until we know what you consider the problem, we can't give specific advice.

I would paraphrase the problem as follows:

Assuming that players/characters deside to pursue their planned strategy (i.e. hide in the keep and be ready to react if the orcs wake the dragon, hopefully ending up with some of the treasure since at least one character is VERY keen on anything valuable), how should I play the orcs and the dragon to make the encounter (i) intersting and fun for me and the players while (ii) giving an impression that both dragon and orcs act rationally.

Yes, I would prefer that the PC do not get themselves killed, but if the get themselves to situation where rationally acting enemies will eat them, I will follow through.

Jay R
2014-05-14, 05:43 PM
...how should I play the orcs and the dragon to make the encounter (i) intersting and fun for me and the players while (ii) giving an impression that both dragon and orcs act rationally.

First of all, it's more important that they actually act rationally. That won't be the PC's impression if the PCs make false assumptions.

For instance, the orcs are here for a scouting mission, and the PCs have assumed that they are raiding. Completing their actual mission without grabbing dragon treasure will look irrational, because the PCs will think the orcs just passed up their original goal

The orcs are only there to look for the dragon. If it wakes up, they will have well and truly found it, and will scamper back home as fast as possible, ignoring the PCs and anything else that isn't escape. They don't have to run faster than the dragon; they only have to run faster than the PCs.

If the dragon wakes up and its hoard has been disturbed, it will know it immediately, and will be able to track the thief by smell. Remember that Smaug knew Bilbo was with dwarves by the taste of their ponies. Unless the party can teleport or find small tunnels that the dragon can't use, they are dragon chow. Note that it's a dwarven stronghold. While great halls are big enough for dragons, mine tunnels aren't. The PCs might be forced to flee downward, into the underworld. Note also that the orcs are also planning to flee, and prefer to be underground.

If the dragon wakes up, and nothing has been disturbed, it might fly out, eat some passers-by just to remind people to stay away, and go back to sleep.

If they steal something and get away, the dragon will remember their smell for decades.