needing more cleric advice

[clericgirl]

I had originally started a new thread since my original thread below was kinda hijacked by an ongoing druid argument, which was kinda related but the thread turned into nothing but a druid debate so I'm opening a new thread to draw in some experienced clerics to help me out.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?347778-druids-aren-t-tier-1-they-re-tier-I-kick-your-ass-Help-me-compete-with-our-druid

I did get some great advice about which spells to persist so I'm good on that. Thanks to all who helped.

The basic rundown. We are using 3.5 but with pathfinder feat progressions + one additional bonus feat at level 1. He calls the "blessing of the God's feat" or whatever, it's an extra feat and I'm happy to accept it. I've made some mistakes and I'm hoping to get some more help as I'm a new cleric.

My feats are ( not listed in order taken.)
Extra Turning, Extend Spell,
Martial weapon proficiency Great sword,
Divine Meta-Persistent Spell,
Persistent Spell, Power attack,
Heighten Spell, Reach Spell

My dm has agreed to let me retrain some of my feats. So I know I'm getting rid of martial weapon prof since I'm going to be Persisting lesser holy transformation. My domains are planning and undeath. My alignment is CG


My equipment is
Belt of Healing 2d6 cure light wounds
Strongarm Bracers
+2 Large Great Sword keening and Fire
I'm wearing a Mithral Spiked Full Plate of Speed.

Someone had mentioned a monk's belt would be better but from what I read from the dmg "If
the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus." A 5th lv monk has an ac bonus of 1. How does that help over my armor? A monk's belt plus greater luminous armor gives a +9 to ac which would only be one higher than my full plate. Granted luminous does give a +4 against melee. There is no prestiging so it's strait 20 cleric for me. Some help of feat selection would be nice.

[Brunks]

A monk's belt also grants your wisdom modifier to AC (Wis+1)

it applies to touch and flat footed AC. You need to be unarmored and unencumbered.

[clericgirl]

A monk's belt also grants your wisdom modifier to AC (Wis+1)

it applies to touch and flat footed AC. You need to be unarmored and unencumbered.

That's what someone else says but I can't find that part in righting. If so I'll buy the belt and sell the armor. My wisdom is a 19 right now so that plus greater luminous would grant me a much better ac.

Any advice on feats?

[Umbranar]

Im not sure if you can add your Wisdom to AC using a monks belt (I think not but maybe I have always been wrong on this, could be what they mean though).
On spells I would persist:

Divine Power - obvious
Greater Blindsight - blindsight 60 ft, screw fogs, screw rogues, screw invisibility, screw everything blocking LoS.

Cant think of another right now, my d&d parties have a gazetteer which bans most of the broken stuff.

Edit: Would you consider a change of weapon? Right now your using a feat to use a greatsword but in my experience, unless your playing a blaster or precision damage character its not the dice roll doing the damage but the added bonuses (especially power attack, stack up the attack bonuses and put enough in power attack to hit AND do descent damage over multiple hits).

[clericgirl]

Im not sure if you can add your Wisdom to AC using a monks belt (I think not but maybe I have always been wrong on this, could be what they mean though).
On spells I would persist:

Divine Power - obvious
Greater Blindsight - blindsight 60 ft, screw fogs, screw rogues, screw invisibility, screw everything blocking LoS.

Cant think of another right now, my d&d parties have a gazetteer which bans most of the broken stuff.

Edit: Would you consider a change of weapon? Right now your using a feat to use a greatsword but in my experience, unless your playing a blaster or precision damage character its not the dice roll doing the damage but the added bonuses (especially power attack, stack up the attack bonuses and put enough in power attack to hit AND do descent damage over multiple hits).

I'm giving up martial weapon proficiency.

I'm going to be persisting divine power(obvious), lesser holy transformation (which gives me proficiency with all martial weapons) and divine favor. I'm going to try to buy a metamagic rod extend so I can then extend my persists to 48 hours and eventually persist 6 spells.

What I'm curious is where is the text that allows monks belt to give wisdom bonus to ac? what feat would be a good replacement for martial weapon great sword and is there better feats than heighten and reach for my level. Which is 7.

[Umbranar]

Divine Vigor is a good one, gives your temp hitpoints and a boost to movement speed. Its activated with a turn attempt though which might get in the way with your DMM.

[eggynack]

What I'm curious is where is the text that allows monks belt to give wisdom bonus to ac?
The monk's AC bonus includes wisdom to AC. The monk's belt grants the monk's AC bonus. That's pretty much it.

[clericgirl]

The monk's AC bonus includes wisdom to AC. The monk's belt grants the monk's AC bonus. That's pretty much it.

Thanks eggyknack!!

Anyone else have feat advice?

[Esgath]

Yes, lose Heighten Spell. The only thing it is good for is either for entry requirements for prestigeclasses, or early entry tricks. If you want to make your DCs harder, just increase wisdom. Reach Spell on the other hand can be really nice later on. Since spells with the range of "Touch" normally can't be persisted, you can make them have a fixed range with Reach Spell. However, as it is always with metamagic feats, you have to consider if you have the spell slots available to use them.
Is there any way you could use the cloistered cleric (http://dndtools.eu/classes/cloistered-cleric/) variant of unearthed arcana? You would lose all armor proficiencies but light armor, but you gain the knowledge domain and 6+int skill points each level. The loss of armor proficiencies is easily mitigated by being an outsider and with that many skill points knowledge devotion (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/knowledge-devotion--1727/) and able learner (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-destiny--81/able-learner--16/) are really nice.
Travel Devotion (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/travel-devotion--2966/) lets you move as a swift action, so you can still make a full attack when you reach your enemy. It also eats away at your turning attempts, so take some more extra turnings. You can't go wrong with those, as they also increase your number of persisted spells.

By the way, since you have more feats available than usual, you could drop the undeath domain and/or planning domain to get some other domains with nicer bonuses, which can't be replicated by feats. They are deep blue in that guide, because normally feats are a very scarce resource for clerics. Since you then lose up to 2 feats, replace martial weapon proficiency with extend spell and heighten spell with extra turning.
If you take the war domain, you could take the feat holy warrior (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/holy-warrior--1405/) which gives a nice bonus to damage. The pleasure domain from BoED makes you immune to charisma damage and drain and their 7th level spell empyreal ecstasy (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/empyreal-ecstasy--3/) halves incoming melee and ranged damage for all your allies and can be persisted. Of course, that's a long way to go. Maybe you like other domains more.

[clericgirl]

Yes, lose Heighten Spell. The only thing it is good for is either for entry requirements for prestigeclasses, or early entry tricks. If you want to make your DCs harder, just increase wisdom. Reach Spell on the other hand can be really nice later on. Since spells with the range of "Touch" normally can't be persisted, you can make them have a fixed range with Reach Spell. However, as it is always with metamagic feats, you have to consider if you have the spell slots available to use them.
Is there any way you could use the cloistered cleric (http://dndtools.eu/classes/cloistered-cleric/) variant of unearthed arcana? You would lose all armor proficiencies but light armor, but you gain the knowledge domain and 6+int skill points each level. The loss of armor proficiencies is easily mitigated by being an outsider and with that many skill points knowledge devotion (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/knowledge-devotion--1727/) and able learner (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-destiny--81/able-learner--16/) are really nice.
Travel Devotion (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/travel-devotion--2966/) lets you move as a swift action, so you can still make a full attack when you reach your enemy. It also eats away at your turning attempts, so take some more extra turnings. You can't go wrong with those, as they also increase your number of persisted spells.

excellent ideas. though the d6 makes me think I'll be quite a bit squishier.

Though I like where your going.

edit: If I'm correct.
Wait the outsider type negates the d6
Features: An outsider has the following features.
—8-sided Hit Dice.
So if I'm correct that negates the missing hit points I would lose to begin with.

[Esgath]

excellent ideas. though the d6 makes me think I'll be quite a bit squishier.

Though I like where your going.

edit: If I'm correct.
Wait the outsider type negates the d6
Features: An outsider has the following features.
—8-sided Hit Dice.
So if I'm correct that negates the missing hit points I would lose to begin with.

Thanks, I edited my post above, maybe take a look at it again. Well, the change from d8 to d6 is 1 hp/level on average. You gain many hitpoints by increasing your constitution, which makes the change nearly negligible.
The change to outsider doesn't grant you the features. For that you would have to have outsider hit dice, like a creature in the monster manual. Your hit dice come from classes. They don't change unless otherwise noted.

[clericgirl]

Yes, lose Heighten Spell. The only thing it is good for is either for entry requirements for prestigeclasses, or early entry tricks. If you want to make your DCs harder, just increase wisdom. Reach Spell on the other hand can be really nice later on. Since spells with the range of "Touch" normally can't be persisted, you can make them have a fixed range with Reach Spell. However, as it is always with metamagic feats, you have to consider if you have the spell slots available to use them.
Is there any way you could use the cloistered cleric (http://dndtools.eu/classes/cloistered-cleric/) variant of unearthed arcana? You would lose all armor proficiencies but light armor, but you gain the knowledge domain and 6+int skill points each level. The loss of armor proficiencies is easily mitigated by being an outsider and with that many skill points knowledge devotion (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/knowledge-devotion--1727/) and able learner (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-destiny--81/able-learner--16/) are really nice.
Travel Devotion (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/travel-devotion--2966/) lets you move as a swift action, so you can still make a full attack when you reach your enemy. It also eats away at your turning attempts, so take some more extra turnings. You can't go wrong with those, as they also increase your number of persisted spells.

By the way, since you have more feats available than usual, you could drop the undeath domain and/or planning domain to get some other domains with nicer bonuses, which can't be replicated by feats. They are deep blue in that guide, because normally feats are a very scarce resource for clerics. Since you then lose up to 2 feats, replace martial weapon proficiency with extend spell and heighten spell with extra turning.
If you take the war domain, you could take the feat holy warrior (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-champion--57/holy-warrior--1405/) which gives a nice bonus to damage. The pleasure domain from BoED makes you immune to charisma damage and drain and their 7th level spell empyreal ecstasy (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/empyreal-ecstasy--3/) halves incoming melee and ranged damage for all your allies and can be persisted. Of course, that's a long way to go. Maybe you like other domains more.

A holy warrior seductress eh? Cliche is nice sometimes :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: THough seriously this has been a HUGE help and something I'll def consider and talk with my dm. Though I could just create a whole other cleric with this theme. :smallcool:


Btw what book is the knowledge Domain in?

[HammeredWharf]

Knowledge domain is in the PHB. Knowledge Devotion is an excellent feat found in Complete Champion. You could also take a look at Law Devotion and Protection Devotion, both of which work really well on a Cleric and give you scaling bonuses to AC and attack that stack with almost everything. Protection Devotion also gives its AC bonus to your allies.

[John Longarrow]

With Power attack, you may want Cleave. After all, what holy warrior seductress doesn't want great cleavage???

OK, couldn't help it.

Serious question though, are you looking at summoning any creatures in combat? If so, augmented summoning can be really useful (+4 STR/CON to summoned creatures). If you are not so nice, Corpsecrafter can let you make some potent undead (Troll skeleton with bonus to STR and HP is nice).

[clericgirl]

No I don't plan on doing a whole lot of summoning. I'm not going the to be summoning undead. I do have a question since knowledge domain gives you access to all knowledge skills and I'm not multi-classing how would able learner help?

I will look into all the feat suggestions though. This has been a huge help.

[clericgirl]

With Power attack, you may want Cleave. After all, what holy warrior seductress doesn't want great cleavage???

OK, couldn't help it.

Serious question though, are you looking at summoning any creatures in combat? If so, augmented summoning can be really useful (+4 STR/CON to summoned creatures). If you are not so nice, Corpsecrafter can let you make some potent undead (Troll skeleton with bonus to STR and HP is nice).

NO I should have seen that comming LOL!

[Esgath]

I do have a question since knowledge domain gives you access to all knowledge skills and I'm not multi-classing how would able learner help?

Able learner is there for things like spot, listen, sense motive (it always bugged me, that the cleric didn't have that), use magic device and so on. It really isn't that needed, to be fair, and if you plan on taking a lot of knowledge skills then you will not have that much skill points to spend otherwise anyway.

[clericgirl]

Able learner is there for things like spot, listen, sense motive (it always bugged me, that the cleric didn't have that), use magic device and so on. It really isn't that needed, to be fair, and if you plan on taking a lot of knowledge skills then you will not have that much skill points to spend otherwise anyway.

I do think that sense motive should def be a cleric skill. I never understood why it wasn't. they should also have use magic device as well. Lol. though I do think most of my skills might go into knowledge and diplomacy.

[JeminiZero]

On the topic of Domains, I think this bears mentioning: SUBSTITUTE DOMAIN (Complete Champion pg 128)

A level 2 spell that Lasts days/level, level and does exactly what it says.

What does that mean? Suppose you went cloistered Cleric, and so you have Knowledge Domain (besides Planning and Undeath). Its not seeing much use on a daily basis. Ever wished you could trade it for something else? Well now you can! Simply cast Substitute Domain, and swap Knowledge for Time (assuming your Deity has that domain). Now you have improved initiative, AND Haste as a Domain spell. You can persist haste on the whole party!

But what if your party already has an Arcanist taking care of Haste? No problem! Pick another Domain!

[John Longarrow]

NO I should have seen that comming LOL!

Hey, just trying to help you GATHER your strenghts and LIFT your performance, not simply PAD your weaknesses.

More seriously, you may want to talk to your DM to see if you can take the divine version of Abjurant Champion. You would need Combat Casting to qualify. D10 for HP, Full BAB, and a good boost for Abjuration spells along with full caster. Doens't help your turning checks. In game I've got an order of Clerics of Pelor that dip one level Crusader at 5th then go Radiant Servant/Abjurant Champion for the next 15. They get really good in battle and walk through undead. Luminous Armor stacks with Shield of Faith and both are Abjuration spells.

[Esgath]

In the other thread, I mentioned having the Spell Domain from the Spell Compendium. It gives bonuses to spellcraft and concentration, which is nice, but Greater Anyspell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/anyspell-greater--3841/) is just godly. Get a spellbook with Draconic Polymorph (http://dndtools.eu/spells/draconomicon--92/draconic-polymorph--1033/), polymorph yourself into a Jarilith (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=519) for 43 str, 29 dex, 29 con (doesn't increase your hp) tons of natural armor and pounce and go to town. This will turn you into a melee monster with abnormal offensive and defensive strengths, on higher levels even better forms are available. You should, however, know the power level of your group if you go that far, might be a bit too much. :D