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View Full Version : Potions, Oils, and Troches



Octopusapult
2014-05-13, 12:49 PM
I've been writing my own homebrew game and campaigns and I really want to use these three things but I don't want my potions and oils to just be "Spells in a bottle."

I want them to each have their own distinct type of uses. Potions would be for quick fix sort of situations. A sudden boost of strength or health or speed. Oils apply to weapons and armor, kind of classic. Some flame effects, some invisibility effects.

Troches I think are really neat. I first saw them used in a Fantasy Game playing Dark Souls II and looked up what they are. "A small tablet or lozenge made of a medicinal substance and worked into a paste with sugar." Seems REALLY fitting for Alchemists in a fantasy game, so I'm thinking of giving them some long-term internal effects. Like lasting you for an encounter or lasting you for a day and providing increased total health, or an immunity to poison or disease. Or maybe even switching the roles of Troches and Potions to make Troches kind of common, easy to transport healing items and potions these really special and valuable flasks.

Anyway what do you guys think of it? Any unique or interesting Potions or Oil effects?

2E Phoinex
2014-05-13, 05:02 PM
Still kind of seems like "spells in a bottle" though doesn't it?

Personally I like having fluff like that which distinguishes between the different types of alchemical products and how they are used, but in reality it doesn't come up in game as much as I would like. Invariably, my players will just call it the "healing stuff" whether it be an ointment, a potion or a powder- they roll the dice and move on. I suppose you are using the different types as a signal for what they are used for? Potion is quickuse, Troche is long lasting, and oils go on objects? Ultimately though what is to stop them, other than attention to role play, from feeling like spells in a bottle?

Perhaps a way to distinguish alchemical products from spells would be to make them a little more chaotic. They could certainly vary in quality with more expensive items lasting longer and being more potent. Perhaps the products can spoil and have adverse effects, or perhaps they grow more and more potent with age? Maybe some races have allergic reactions to certain products. What is the result of over use?- maybe spamming health potions could give adventurers gas. Some substances could have addictive qualities or produce a hangover like effect after a few hours.

Seems like I have mostly adverse effect suggestions, but it would certainly dispel the idea of "spells in a bottle" if the players had to consider all the consequences of using.

Octopusapult
2014-05-13, 09:49 PM
Still kind of seems like "spells in a bottle" though doesn't it?

Personally I like having fluff like that which distinguishes between the different types of alchemical products and how they are used, but in reality it doesn't come up in game as much as I would like. Invariably, my players will just call it the "healing stuff" whether it be an ointment, a potion or a powder- they roll the dice and move on. I suppose you are using the different types as a signal for what they are used for? Potion is quickuse, Troche is long lasting, and oils go on objects? Ultimately though what is to stop them, other than attention to role play, from feeling like spells in a bottle?

Perhaps a way to distinguish alchemical products from spells would be to make them a little more chaotic. They could certainly vary in quality with more expensive items lasting longer and being more potent. Perhaps the products can spoil and have adverse effects, or perhaps they grow more and more potent with age? Maybe some races have allergic reactions to certain products. What is the result of over use?- maybe spamming health potions could give adventurers gas. Some substances could have addictive qualities or produce a hangover like effect after a few hours.

Seems like I have mostly adverse effect suggestions, but it would certainly dispel the idea of "spells in a bottle" if the players had to consider all the consequences of using.

You're absolutely correct. I suppose I'm not breaking away from the bottled magic effect that I was criticizing. This is a good idea though, to add adverse effects or chaotic variables when aged, or exposed to sunlight,

Afgncaap5
2014-05-13, 11:03 PM
Getting away from "spells in a bottle" is hard, but you can take certain thematic steps. (Case in point: potions/alchemy is the best way to create someone like Batman's villain Bane. A device that pumps some sort of strength/stamina/speed enhancing drug into his system that makes him a nigh-unstoppable killing machine? The detrimental effects are bad if overused, but definitely handy for him over the short term.)

NichG
2014-05-13, 11:40 PM
There are two steps you need to take:

1. Determine a set of supernatural things which are impossible for spells to do, due to some underlying constraint in the way magic works. Maybe no spell can last longer than a minute, or no spell can cause a permanent change in anything, or spells simply cannot heal. It might even be something very idiosyncratic, like all magic must have a strong elemental effect/side-effect.

2. Allow potions, oils, and troches to accomplish some of the things that spells cannot.

Jay R
2014-05-14, 12:34 PM
Potions affect you immediately, and last for a few minutes. Troches don't take effect for twenty minutes, and last for hours.

So they must be used differently. A potion is for the start of the melee; a troche is for entering a dangerous area.

For instance, a potion of water-breathing is pulled out when you fall off the boat, to keep you alive until quickly rescued. A water-breathing troche would be for exploring the bottom of the sea for a sunken treasure ship.

Potions and troches work internally; lotions and oils externally. There is no such thing as a barkskin potion; that would be a lotion you spread on.

Also, it would be possible to use a lotion more specifically. A lotion of fire resistance is enough to cover your entire body. But you could use a tiny bit of it on your hands to reach into the fire for the baked potatoes.

Similarly, for reaching into a room, you just need to cover one arm with invisibility lotion. For looking over a barrier safely in a battle, just cover your head with it.

Gildedragon
2014-05-14, 01:25 PM
You could allow for potions to be diluted. Some effects being good at 1 part in 100 (a potion sized portion of an effect that lasted 1 hour would last 36 seconds) or concentrated with an alchemy check (reduce 10 potions of cure minor wounds into a single portion that heals 10 hp).

ClockShock
2014-05-14, 02:09 PM
There are two steps you need to take:

1. Determine a set of supernatural things which are impossible for spells to do, due to some underlying constraint in the way magic works. Maybe no spell can last longer than a minute, or no spell can cause a permanent change in anything, or spells simply cannot heal. It might even be something very idiosyncratic, like all magic must have a strong elemental effect/side-effect.

2. Allow potions, oils, and troches to accomplish some of the things that spells cannot.

In my opinion, this is the better option. Fussing about with fiddly mechanics such as changing durations, decay, random effects, all turns into a lot more work for you and your players. Were I a player, I would probably stick to spells because they're easier to deal with.

A simple divide between external magic (spells, etc), and personal effects (potions, etc) will make them noticeably different, and ensure they both get used.

Want to fry someone with lightning? There's a spell for that.

Need to be strong enough to punch through a wall? I've got just the thing in my medicine bag.

Separating potions and troche by rarity is another simple divide. I would favour rare and wonderful potions in unique flasks, and let the pastes do the brunt work.

Octopusapult
2014-05-15, 02:44 AM
In my opinion, this is the better option. Fussing about with fiddly mechanics such as changing durations, decay, random effects, all turns into a lot more work for you and your players. Were I a player, I would probably stick to spells because they're easier to deal with.

A simple divide between external magic (spells, etc), and personal effects (potions, etc) will make them noticeably different, and ensure they both get used.

Want to fry someone with lightning? There's a spell for that.

Need to be strong enough to punch through a wall? I've got just the thing in my medicine bag.

Separating potions and troche by rarity is another simple divide. I would favour rare and wonderful potions in unique flasks, and let the pastes do the brunt work.

Probably right. Too many tables would be necessary for what happens to a potion with external stimuli. I do like the idea of using Troches for long term effects and potions for immediate needs though.

Fiery Diamond
2014-05-16, 02:00 AM
Well, if you're designing things for your own system, one thing to keep in mind is that "if this is a factor, there needs to be a table for it" is a very D&D concept, and it isn't one shared by all systems. It's entirely possible to have "potions can go bad and have different/side effects or they can get better with age" as a defined part of the rules without having any tables about it at all. Just have a couple of examples and guidelines and you can be set.

Worgwood
2014-05-17, 11:49 AM
You could always make "alchemical dependency" (and other fun side effects) a factor if your players start shotgunning health items.

Octopusapult
2014-05-21, 09:29 PM
Well, if you're designing things for your own system, one thing to keep in mind is that "if this is a factor, there needs to be a table for it" is a very D&D concept, and it isn't one shared by all systems. It's entirely possible to have "potions can go bad and have different/side effects or they can get better with age" as a defined part of the rules without having any tables about it at all. Just have a couple of examples and guidelines and you can be set.

And this is the direction I'm really going in. As simple as possible. Hoping people will have some RPG familiarity beforehand to fill in some of the blanks so to speak. I don't want to line the PDFs with tables and guides for everything.


You could always make "alchemical dependency" (and other fun side effects) a factor if your players start shotgunning health items.

This is a fun idea. Something I would do to my players for sure.

NichG
2014-05-21, 09:45 PM
Keep in mind that in general, downsides discourage exploration of a system rather than encouraging it. That means that paradoxically, the more work you put into detailing the downsides the less chance you'll actually see anyone go there in game.

I mean 'this is just like a spell, but it has a downside if you over-use it!' isn't going to sell to the players.

Worgwood
2014-05-21, 11:33 PM
Maybe you could throw magic tobaccos in there? You know, effects which you smoke (or chew?) rather than imbibe.


I mean 'this is just like a spell, but it has a downside if you over-use it!' isn't going to sell to the players.
I dunno, getting the shakes because you need your fix of Bull's Strength sounds like the most amusing sort of risk to me.

NichG
2014-05-22, 12:00 AM
I dunno, getting the shakes because you need your fix of Bull's Strength sounds like the most amusing sort of risk to me.

Most players will avoid things with downsides in my experience, especially if they have a random element, even when the thing has a strong advantage compared to the things without downsides. 'I want to inflict this on my players' is generally not good design for a subsystem that you want players to voluntarily use.