Nonstandard theurges

[Anlashok]

So I know there's an Eldritch theurge for warlock/wizard, a noctumancer for shadowcaster/wizard, an anima mage for binder/wizard... but does anyone know if there's any good theurges (preferably first party, but interested in homebrew too) that go between nonstandard casting classes?

I'd really like, for instance, to try out some sort of binder/warlock theurge or what have you.

[pwykersotz]

Yathrinshee is a really interesting (but really weak) theurge class that has six levels of progressing arcane/divine, but stacks ALL her casting class levels together for the CL for necromancy. Fun times.

[Peelee]

Arcane Hierophant (http://dndtools.eu/classes/arcane-hierophant/) is a Druid-ChoiceOfArcane variant from the 1st party Races of the Wild.

"Nonstandard" if you take a wonky arcane class with it. Though that's pretty much true of the standard Mystic Theurge

[Coidzor]

You're pretty much limited to homebrew & adapting Anima Mage to allow Warlock entry as far as combining Binding and Invocations.

I ended up making a few Divine/Meldshaping PrCs and a Psionics/Meldshaping PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?311204-Totem-Shaman-(A-Totemist-Divine-PrC)-PEACH) when I set out to make an alternative to the Sapphire Hierarch for (OA) Shaman & Druids and a more martially inclined alternative to Soulmanifester for Psychic Warrior types. Focused on Totemist/Divine or Totemist mixed with either Ardent or Psychic Warrior, but considering that tweaking them to be more flexible would fall well within the last bit of polish they most likely need before they're really & truly usable. & it's all probably a bit more focused on animal companions than most would like, and that's partially because I was making it as an alternative to the 2 or 3 Druid/Totemist PrCs I've run into on GITP that put Wildshape, Casting, and Meldshaping together & dump the animal companion to the point it's better to trade it out for an Urban Companion or something else.

The Psionic PrC is probably the least polished & the most non-standard.

[Elderand]

You're not going to find official classes that link subsystems together like that.
Every book for dnd assume you only have that book and core.

If you want things for binder/warlocks or other such things you'll have to look at homebrew.

[Psyren]

In ToM, Anima Mage can also be adapted for cleric/binder and even psion/binder. The former combines well with Tenebrous Apostate for a very powerful heretic, while the latter is a good way to use the psionic vestiges from Mind's Eye since your PP pools will stack.

[Rebel7284]

http://dndtools.eu/classes/fochlucan-lyrist/ ?

[Thealtruistorc]

You're not going to find official classes that link subsystems together like that.
Every book for dnd assume you only have that book and core.

If you want things for binder/warlocks or other such things you'll have to look at homebrew.

Not entirely true. Psionic/Incarnum hybrids exist I believe.

[Coidzor]

Not entirely true. Psionic/Incarnum hybrids exist I believe.

There's Soulmanifester (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a)as the counterpart to Soulcaster. It's fine for Psions, IIRC. Maybe Wilders.

[Telonius]

I remember making an Artificer/Cleric crossover a long (long, long, long) time ago. I think it was lost in one of the forum purges, and it was probably horrible (being one of my first homebrewing attempts). But I remember it because of the name - I called it a "Deus ex Machina." :smallbiggrin:

[JeminiZero]

So I know there's an Eldritch theurge for warlock/wizard, a noctumancer for shadowcaster/wizard, an anima mage for binder/wizard... but does anyone know if there's any good theurges (preferably first party, but interested in homebrew too) that go between nonstandard casting classes?
The base class in my Sig might be able to to what you want. Its a highly ambitious base class premised on mixing multiple systems (and even templates) together, rather than a true PrC.

[Jeff the Green]

Yathrinshee is a really interesting (but really weak) theurge class that has six levels of progressing arcane/divine, but stacks ALL her casting class levels together for the CL for necromancy. Fun times.

It's acceptable in a few instances. A Wizard/Ur-Priest can get some use of it, since it has 6x2/10 casting. Because of the way you calculate Ur-Priest CL, that's effectively +3 CL (+9 for necromancy) on top of the 6. You just need to make sure you enter Ur-Priest by 7th. Like Mystic Theurge it double-progresses Sha'ir for 12/10 casting. You will need either Geomancer 5, Southern Magician, or Alternate Source Spell to get in without cleric levels, and aside from the "anything you kill rises as a zombie" thing, True Necromancer is better with 20/14 casting and easier entry.

I homebrewed a Factotum/Artificer, Beguiler/Incarnum, and Binder Warlock a while back. I can link to them if someone wants, but it still need to update the [TABLE] code. The F/A also needs some work (inappropriate pricing of gadgets and somewhat incomplete capstone) but is mostly playable and the B/W needs a lot (too many dead levels and incomplete abilities).

[Curmudgeon]

Like Mystic Theurge it double-progresses Sha'ir for 12/10 casting.
You mean completely fails to work?
Spells per Day

When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day. Mystic Theurge doesn't "double-progress" anything, because that would entail adding 2X the MT level to whatever existing spellcasting class you had. That way of thinking disagrees with the formula given for the class feature, so it's incorrect.

[Umbranar]

A weird one but a "theurge" is the Ultimate Magus which combines spontaneous casting and prepared casting.

[Jeff the Green]

You mean completely fails to work? Mystic Theurge doesn't "double-progress" anything, because that would entail adding 2X the MT level to whatever existing spellcasting class you had. That way of thinking disagrees with the formula given for the class feature, so it's incorrect.

I would agree were it not for the word "essentially". It's pretty plain that that means it's an explanation, not the actual rule. The rule is the first sentence, which says each level you progress spells per day in an arcane casting class (Sha'ir) and a divine casting class (also Sha'ir). It's cheesy as hell, way against RAI, and wouldn't fly in any game I've ever heard of, but it's definitely RAW.

[Doc_Maynot]

Factotum/Artificer
Why? Artificer's are broken as it is to be mixed with such a rules vague class as the factotum...

On a completely... Unrelated note... Where is a link for this theurge homebrew that mixes my two favorite classes?

[Jeff the Green]

Why? Artificer's are broken as it is to be mixed with such a rules vague class as the factotum...

On a completely... Unrelated note... Where is a link for this theurge homebrew that mixes my two favorite classes?


Aside from loving those classes too? :smallsmile: There's good synergy and a good thematic intersection (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?273831-PrC-Mechas-and-flamethrowers-Artificer-Factotum-theurge-(WIP-PEACH)&p=14803127#post14803127) I think I exploited well. Plus if you enter the way I expect you don't get the worst of the Factotum's abilities, Arcane Dilettante. I think you only need to deal with inspiration point gain, and the RAI is pretty clear on that, I think, if you go with the ToB interpretation that out of combat/social interaction 1/encounter means 1/10 minutes.

Anyway, that theurge is about ready to go; the only real issue is pricing of the higher level inventions. You could probably reduce the costs by 2/3, though I've still not figured out how to price traps—by the DMG they're freaking expensive. Oh, and the durable widgets/gadgets should be made more random; 20+1d10 is probably good.

Oh, and by the way, I figured out a way to do the invention breaking without DM bookkeeping. You have n+1dx uses. You can use it n times without rolling. The n+1st time you roll dx; if it's a 1 it breaks after that use. Assuming you don't roll a 1, each time thereafter the die shrinks by 1, so d10, d9, d8, d7... And the time after the d2, if you get that far, it breaks no matter what. You can simulate a d9 by rolling d10 and rerolling on a 10. Similarly for d7 (use a d8). A d5, d3, and d2 are better done by rolling the die twice their size and halving the result (rounding up).