Binder with blunderbuss

[Biotroll]

Hiho playground. I need your help with character concept.
We are finishing our campaign and one of the players offered to DM for us. His words about it are: One Piece like campaign. So marines, pirates and whatnot. We are planning our characters already and this is where one of my friends got stuck. He wants to try out binder, but wants to use guns (and most notably blunderbuss).
Party so far will be:
Me playing A-game paladin
Druid
Gunslinger (musket user) or sorcerer (this player is showing about half the time)
Binder (the player in question)
and one is undecided at the moment

Gun rules will be taken from PF and imported into DnD (as will be gunslinger after some changes). I've quicky ran through Gunslinger Handbook, but it looked liked it was pistol/musket centered so I got little info on what to do with this character. Can you help? What feats should I look for? What magical equipement? Any specific things that we should ask our DM to houserule otherwise?

[Gildedragon]

I am confused if you're talking about yourself (the "a game paladin") or the binder. addressing this to the binder:

Well you need EWP Firearms, and you might want WF firearms to later go into Knight of the Sacred Seal

Improved Binding is a must unless you're starting v. high level.
if you're starting past level 4 you might want to put that in the bonus feat slot

Expel Vestige might be nice too, as well as Rapid Pact Making if RPM allows you to skip the minute of doodling in the sand.

[Biotroll]

Oh sorry. I'm talking about binder. He's a player at my table, but he is not very good with english which is why I ask here for him.

I've read the class, the handbook and I like it. I know what general feats and prestige classes are good for binder, but I also know you need to specialize a bit. I can go through vestiges and recomend some that will help him (paimon for some dex bonus and melee abilities if things go wrong) etc. but I never went through PF. I only seen gunslinger class, gunslinger handbook and saph's guide to PF (though I gave most of it only a quick glance). So while some binder advice is good, I seek aid in guns and gun related things mostly.

[Gildedragon]

There's the Amateur Gunslinger feat. With it take the Focused Aim deed to get Cha to damage or Gun Tank's Resolve to get light fortification

[Slipperychicken]

You might want to give your binder at least a dip into gunslinger. That gets him a lot of necessary stuff for free, such as proficiency, the quick clear deed, a free gun, and the gunsmithing feat.

I can't find a way to full-attack with a blunderbuss, which may be an issue if he plans on making multiple attacks per round. PF doesn't give much love to blunderbusses, which is why there isn't much advice in the handbook.

The ideal situation would be to get him a Shotgun (advanced version of the blunderbuss) instead, so that he could full-attack and not worry about his gun exploding. Also, he wouldn't need to sink nearly as many build resources into using his weapon.


Can you help? What feats should I look for? What magical equipement? Any specific things that we should ask our DM to houserule otherwise?

Feats: Rapid Reload, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.

Items: Alchemical Cartridge (Paper), Seeking (+1 enchant, PF), Beneficial Bandolier, Endless Bandolier.

[Gildedragon]

Since this is 3.5, maybe asking about applying the "Rapid Loading" weapon (x-bow) enhancement to guns, 'cause it makes sense to put it on guns.

Actually a better choice than Gunslinger might be Wizard 1 (Spellslinger)... provided he can use his vestiges' supernatural RTAs, cones, lines, and rays through it.
It would let them better tie their spirit-binding with their weapon use; and when not shooting Amon's Fire Breath at their foes, he can use normal ammo.

[Biotroll]

Guess the only way to get some ability score to damage is gunslinger 5 then. How much damage can be expected from character pretending to be gunslinger and how much from specialized gunslinger? With all the touch attacks (or AoEs with blunderbuss) I suspect hitting won't be problem. Also, only way to get deeds/grit is from gunslinger or amateur gunslinger feat? Nothing that resembles Martial Study from ToB?

[Gildedragon]

Guess the only way to get some ability score to damage is gunslinger 5 then. How much damage can be expected from character pretending to be gunslinger and how much from specialized gunslinger? With all the touch attacks (or AoEs with blunderbuss) I suspect hitting won't be problem. Also, only way to get deeds/grit is from gunslinger or amateur gunslinger feat? Nothing that resembles Martial Study from ToB?

Well Amateur Gunsmith does resemble Martial Study, and it lets you get the Focused Aim deed which grants Cha to all gun-damage

As to which can do more damage?
I think they are kinda even. Though the ability to channel spells through the gun as a spell slinger has a huge value of cool option (and the x3 critter isn't bad)
and with the wiz 1 dip you open the doors to anima mage, and being able to enhance one's weapons for free and on the fly is pretty cool

[Slipperychicken]

Guess the only way to get some ability score to damage is gunslinger 5 then. How much damage can be expected from character pretending to be gunslinger and how much from specialized gunslinger? With all the touch attacks (or AoEs with blunderbuss) I suspect hitting won't be problem. Also, only way to get deeds/grit is from gunslinger or amateur gunslinger feat? Nothing that resembles Martial Study from ToB?

You can also do Trench Fighter3 for dex to damage. I'm fond of Gunsinger1/Trench Fighter3. It'll save you a level and score two bonus feats.

And honestly, once you get the basic feats that I mentioned, there isn't much difference at all.

[Gildedragon]

Also if a template to fey up the Binder is allowed the Charming the Arrow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a) feat to get Cha to hit may well be recommended if it is ruled to apply to firearms (since it works on xbows I dont see why not)

or a Gun of Songs (MIC, 48, unique weapon ability) and a bard dip to trade bardic music for cha to hit.

For the binder I'd suggest

Spellslinger 1 (if ruled to work with Supernatural abilities, single gun), Binder 2-4, Anima mage X
feats: Charming the Arrow (Flaw), Amateur Gunslinger [Deed:Focused Aim] (Flaw), Precocious Apprentice (1), (if human: Guided Spell or some other metamagic), Improved Binding (3), Expel Vestige (6 or binder 4)... etc

Alternatively

Binder 1/ Spell Slinger 1/ Binder X/ KoSS
Feats: Charming the Arrow, Amateur Gunslinger, Improved Binding, Weapon Focus (Firearms)...


I am focusing on granting Cha to attacks etc as it is the primary stat for a binder (to ensure good pacts)

Templates & Races that grant the fey type:
Duskling (MoI)
Faun (Deities & Demigods) Add magicblooded (Dr 306) to offset Cha penalty
Gruuwar (Dr 317)
Jerelmaine (MM2, tiny)
Killoren (RotW)
Feytouched (Savage Progressions race and optional class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a))

Templates:
Unseelie Fey Template (Dragon Compendium)
Half-Fey (FF, La+2)

[Biotroll]

Okay. Got it. Thanks for the help, both of you. :smallsmile:

[ShurikVch]

I suggest to ditch PF rules completely
Better to use rules from the article "The Way of the Gun"
Let's compare!
What's you will got and lose by using those rules (instead PF ones)?
Cons:
1. Reload required 4 ounces of gunpowder
2. Slightly lesser damage: 1d4, if Small; 1d6, if Medium
3. No precision damage or crits
4. Heavier by 2 lb

Pros:
1. Reload as standard action. Without feat!
2. Cost only 200 gp. Free bullets.
3. No attack rolls, but allow Ref for half-damage. (Your gun shoot piercing breath weapon! :smallcool: )
4. Range is 20 ft, not 15
5. No misfire rules !!!


I can't find a way to full-attack with a blunderbuss Rapid Shot (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/rapid-shot--2377/)


Guess the only way to get some ability score to damage is gunslinger 5 then. Dip in Fighter(Targeteer) will get you Vital Aim - Dex to damage if your Str not in penalty. Make it (Lesser) Drow Hit-and-Run Tactics, and get double Dex to damage. (Triple with Dead Eye (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-compendium--109/dead-eye--3345/) :smallwink: )

[Slipperychicken]

Rapid Shot (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/rapid-shot--2377/)

I meant in Pathfinder.