3.P: Help me build Bear Cavalry.

[Aldhissla]

Deadly serious title- I recently read through some more of the Eberron Campaign Setting, and found that the nation of Breland has an elite cavalry unit that uses bear mounts. But as far as I know, there is no Prestige Class or variant or feat of any sort for that concept. It's utterly shocking not to find on the Internet, I know.

So, I was wondering if anyone here on GitP happens to have a homebrew class saved somewhere for just this purpose.

And if not, then I will go ahead with some ranger or druid-focused build of my own and put that forth for critiquing.

I would ask that puns be kept to a minimum, but that wouldn't work anyway.

[malonkey1]

You could probably build them from Cavaliers (PF Base Class, not 3.5 PrC) with a Bear for their mount under the GM approval clause.

[JeminiZero]

No need for Homebrew, all it takes is one feat: Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a). You get an animal as per a Druid Animal Companion, except that you count as a Druid 3 levels lower, so to get a Black Bear (Druid 4), you need to be level 7 at least.

[Coidzor]

No need for Homebrew, all it takes is one feat: Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a). You get an animal as per a Druid Animal Companion, except that you count as a Druid 3 levels lower, so to get a Black Bear (Druid 4), you need to be level 7 at least.

Well, that works for Halflings, but Black Bears are Medium. Gotta get a Brown, Polar, or Dire Bear for a human type.

I'm AFB, but I think Megaloceros are roughly comparable to a Brown Bear, so you might be able to just adapt something from Knight of the Iron Glacier.

[nedz]

Or take Leadership and get yourself a Druid Cohort — who Wildshapes into a Bear.
You can also do this with a Barbarian/Bear Warrior but they would have to be much higher level.

[Summerstorm]

Hm... you don't need to waste feats on that for the riders, i think. Why having it as cohorts/companion etc. if you can just TRAIN them

Hell, Bears are even smart animals - can learn 6 Tricks with Int 2. Train them up as Warbeasts with attack, attack supernatural, Accept a Rider, stay, come and growl (or something *g*) and give them to your riding standard-fighters.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Hm... you don't need to waste feats on that for the riders, i think. Why having it as cohorts/companion etc. if you can just TRAIN them

Hell, Bears are even smart animals - can learn 6 Tricks with Int 2. Train them up as Warbeasts with attack, attack supernatural, Accept a Rider, stay, come and growl (or something *g*) and give them to your riding standard-fighters.

Breland is even famous for their magebred animals. the cavalry that OP mentions rides magebred brown bears (stats in five nations book). Magebred animals are easy to train so i agree. Train them as mounts and war beasts, put some fighters on them and there you have some cavalry.

some wild plains outrider might work too

[Aldhissla]

Well, good morning to you all!

I hadn't known that the stats for the particular bears were in a book- thanks for that one!

It seems their stat entry even mentions a 7th-level druid being able to take one as a companion in place of regular Brown Bears (for some reason the book says Polar Bears are 7th-level). Despite core Pathfinder having apparently no large bear companion choices, I think that's the system I'll focus on more easily.

My idea so far is a Beast Rider Cavalier for a personal PC or maybe a captain. And for the more typical low-level cavalrymen, Fighters with max Handle Animal/Ride, as was already sorta suggested.

As far as pure 3.5 would go, hypothetically... I'd just beg the DM to give Rangers full-progression companions. That's not too crazy on the whole of the game's power scale, is it?

[Vaz]

Tauric werebear antropomorphic bear brown bear druid with a bear animal companion and bear wild cohort.

[WeaselGuy]

Under Adaptation for the Halfling Outrider PrC, it states something to the effect of "This class may be used to represent any number of race specific elite cavalry units, to include, for example, Elves riding Giant Lizards and Goblins riding Worgs.

From the progression chart of Halfling Outrider, comes the following...

Mount: A halfling outrider gains a mount appropriate to the resources of her halfling community. Most halfling communities attempt to provide an out rider with a riding dog or a warpony. A halfling outrider may, of course, choose to find and train or purchase a more exotic mount. Standard tack and harness is also provided, though, again, the character may wish to purchase masterwork or magic gear.

Halfling outrider class levels stack with paladin, druid, and ranger levels for determining the characteristics of a paladin's mount or an animal companion.

It also dovetails nicely with the Wild Plains Outrider.

I've used this PrC combo to advance my Kobold Archery Ranger, riding on his Dire Weasel animal companion, to great effect.



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Feats
Class Features


1st
Ranger
+1
+2
+2
+0
Weapon Finesse
Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy


2nd
Ranger
+2
+3
+3
+0
Rapid Shot
Combat Style (Archery)


3rd
Ranger
+3
+3
+3
+1
Point Blank Shot
Endurance


4th
Kobold Ranger Substitution
+4
+4
+4
+1
-
Dire Weasel Companion, Kobold Ranger Spells


5th
Ranger
+5
+4
+4
+1
-
Favored Enemy


6th
Ranger
+6/+1
+5
+5
+2
Many Shot, Mounted Combat
Improved Combat Style (Archery)


7th
Wild Plains Outrider
+7/+2
+7
+5
+2
-
Animal Companion Bonus, Ride Bonus, Wild Plains Stalker


8th
Wild Plains Outrider
+8/+3
+8
+5
+2
-
Wild Plains Swiftness


9th
Wild Plains Outrider
+9/+4
+8
+6
+3
Mounted Archery
Wild Plains Offensive


10th
Halfling Outrider (Adapted for Kobolds)
+10/+5
+8
+8
+3
-
Animal Companion Bonus, Alertness, Ride Bonus


11th
Kobold Outrider
+11/+6/+1
+8
+9
+3
-
Defensive Riding


12th
Kobold Outrider
+12/+7/+2
+9
+9
+4
Ride-by-Attack
Unbroken Charge


13th
Kobold Outrider
+13/+8/+3
+9
+10
+4
-
Stand on Mount


14th
Kobold Outrider
+14/+9/+4
+9
+10
+4
-
Leap from the Saddle


15th
Kobold Outrider
+15/+10/+5
+10
+11
+5
Spirited Charge
-

[John Longarrow]

Aldhissla,
I'd build them the same as normal cav, just have them riding warbeast bears.

[Aldhissla]

Aldhissla,
I'd build them the same as normal cav, just have them riding warbeast bears.

I might be missing something on my end- Cavaliers can only have a non-horse (or camel) mount by using the Beast Rider archetype, aside from DM fiat.

Unless you mean just having the animal around as a trained non-companion mount, which I still tend to forget is viable at low levels.

[Aldhissla]

Under Adaptation for the Halfling Outrider PrC, it states something to the effect of "This class may be used to represent any number of race specific elite cavalry units, to include, for example, Elves riding Giant Lizards and Goblins riding Worgs.

I really like the adaptability there; I'd never noticed it before.

Side question; how would someone handle a goblin worg rider, since they're magical beasts and all?

Or is it just a matter of changing 'worg' to 'wolf' and then pretending?

[WeaselGuy]

I really like the adaptability there; I'd never noticed it before.

Side question; how would someone handle a goblin worg rider, since they're magical beasts and all?

Or is it just a matter of changing 'worg' to 'wolf' and then pretending?

Honestly? no idea, I'm AFB right now, so I'm using another website to look up the class info (don't know if I'm allowed to share where I'm looking, since this info isn't OGL >.>) BUT, be that as it may, it very could be wolf riders. /shrug


edit: ridiculously off-topic, but I just noticed I've been upgraded from Pixie to Halfling. WOOHOO!

[John Longarrow]

I might be missing something on my end- Cavaliers can only have a non-horse (or camel) mount by using the Beast Rider archetype, aside from DM fiat.

Unless you mean just having the animal around as a trained non-companion mount, which I still tend to forget is viable at low levels.

I would build them as Fighters with the mounted combat feats. Nothing specifies they can't ride a non-horse. This is a fantasy world, so having non-horse mounts isn't as out of the question as is would be in real life.

[Aldhissla]

Honestly? no idea, I'm AFB right now, so I'm using another website to look up the class info (don't know if I'm allowed to share where I'm looking, since this info isn't OGL >.>) BUT, be that as it may, it very could be wolf riders. /shrug


edit: ridiculously off-topic, but I just noticed I've been upgraded from Pixie to Halfling. WOOHOO!

I figure it's just one of those oversights that was never ever fixed. Heck, there's a pathfinder ORC (as in medium-sized) NPC that's supposed to fight on a worg's back. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-1/Belkzen-Orc-Skoll That's one unhappy pooch.

Also, Huzzah!


I would build them as Fighters with the mounted combat feats. Nothing specifies they can't ride a non-horse. This is a fantasy world, so having non-horse mounts isn't as out of the question as is would be in real life.

Oh! Alright, I see. Your last post mentioned 'cav' instead of fighter and threw me off.

[John Longarrow]

Well, these days when I think CAV I think Air Mobile...

Or 19D...

[WeaselGuy]

Well, these days when I think CAV I think Air Mobile...

Or 19D...

Used to live in the housing development by the Air Cav field here at Hood... pretty cool watching all the whirlybirds come in and out while sitting at the stoplights.

[Urpriest]

I really like the adaptability there; I'd never noticed it before.

Side question; how would someone handle a goblin worg rider, since they're magical beasts and all?

Or is it just a matter of changing 'worg' to 'wolf' and then pretending?

In 3.5, Worgs are a valid choice of Familiar. Play a Duskblade or Hexblade or the like with the Improved Familiar feat and you've got a solid option.

[WeaselGuy]

In 3.5, Worgs are a valid choice of Familiar. Play a Duskblade or Hexblade or the like with the Improved Familiar feat and you've got a solid option.

I direct you to Urpriest's sig... the man is damn helpful.

[Rebel7284]

Sentinel of Bharrai (http://dndtools.eu/classes/sentinel-of-bharrai/) gets Cavalry of Dire Bears (Sp) 1/week.

Not exactly what you are looking for, but amusing nonetheless.

[Aldhissla]

In 3.5, Worgs are a valid choice of Familiar. Play a Duskblade or Hexblade or the like with the Improved Familiar feat and you've got a solid option.

The Familiar path has crossed my mind in the past! Actually, I read your guide on them a few weeks back as well.

I've just been foiled by electronics whenever I've gotten around to actually putting together a character sheet, for some reason.

Drat. Now my limited attention span is dragging me back toward a pseudo-Mongolian or Hunnic goblin rider.

Hrm... I wonder if I could work Improved Whip Mastery into that build and make it Shocking Grasp/AoO-friendly...

[John Longarrow]

Drat. Now my limited attention span is dragging me back toward a pseudo-Mongolian or Hunnic goblin rider.

Or Pseudonatural??

Hmm.. Goblin with Pseudopods on the back of a gelatenous bear...

[Aldhissla]

Or Pseudonatural??

Hmm.. Goblin with Pseudopods on the back of a gelatenous bear...

I've entirely forgotten what we were doing originally.

[Vogonjeltz]

I really like the adaptability there; I'd never noticed it before.

Side question; how would someone handle a goblin worg rider, since they're magical beasts and all?

Or is it just a matter of changing 'worg' to 'wolf' and then pretending?

Worgs are intelligent, and they speak goblin. So really the Goblin just needs ride skill, no handle animal or training required. Also, for the PF Orc who supposedly rides a Worg, Worg's who have HD advanced sufficiently become Large creatures (which the Medium-sized Orc can ride). Goblins as small creatures have no trouble riding the base-line Worg.

[Aldhissla]

Worgs are intelligent, and they speak goblin. So really the Goblin just needs ride skill, no handle animal or training required. Also, for the PF Orc who supposedly rides a Worg, Worg's who have HD advanced sufficiently become Large creatures (which the Medium-sized Orc can ride). Goblins as small creatures have no trouble riding the base-line Worg.

It's just that the class built around riding an animal companion wouldn't be able to make the magical beast said animal companion.

And you're right about the Large worgs, I forgot about those. But by then, that'd be a 2nd-level Fighter on a 10HD creature.

[Vogonjeltz]

It's just that the class built around riding an animal companion wouldn't be able to make the magical beast said animal companion.

And you're right about the Large worgs, I forgot about those. But by then, that'd be a 2nd-level Fighter on a 10HD creature.

That's a PF problem, in 3.5 only Goblins are said to be riding Worgs.

[Coidzor]

I might be missing something on my end- Cavaliers can only have a non-horse (or camel) mount by using the Beast Rider archetype, aside from DM fiat.

Unless you mean just having the animal around as a trained non-companion mount, which I still tend to forget is viable at low levels.

You are. You're missing that characters can ride mounts without having to have them as a class feature or gain them from a feat. Especially large bodies of NPCs. For whom viability is... so much ephemera.


I really like the adaptability there; I'd never noticed it before.

Side question; how would someone handle a goblin worg rider, since they're magical beasts and all?

Or is it just a matter of changing 'worg' to 'wolf' and then pretending?

The main question is what kind of adjustment to effective level for a companion/special mount would be necessary for a Worg and then determining the nature of the relationship and nominal loyalties. A worg is between a wolf and a Dire Wolf in many respects and its main advantage is that it's intelligent to grasp certain concepts and can communicate, but as a mount the importance of intelligence is less than that of a more general companion due to directing mounts in combat. It's not going to break the game though, as much as the devs were afraid of giving intelligent animal companions up until they gave a PrC, ACF, & feat workaround.


It's just that the class built around riding an animal companion wouldn't be able to make the magical beast said animal companion.

The Exalted Companion feat, Arcane Hierophant PrC, and the Urban Companion ACFs say hello. As does the Supermount.

There's precedent and you're in homebrewing and houseruling territory anyway.